Language Overflow

Færd

03:14

> Did you go to Women's March on Washington?

> Did you go to the Women's March on Washington?

Apparently the should be there, as it should be included in the women's movement (= feminism), the men's room, etc.

mike

I would use the

you are referring to a specific march that took place

Færd

And it's not the [women's march], so it has to be [the women]'s march.

@mike Yes, I'm trying to figure out what it is that the is making more definite.

But do we have a particular group of women in mind when we say [the women]'s movement, [the women]'s rally, [the men]'s room, etc?

What does the do there exactly?

Joe Pinsonault

I think it would be "the [women's march]", because it's a type of march, "Did you go to the march?" "Which march?" "The women's march"

Færd

Hmm. How can an article and a possessive adjective (or whatever it's called) both modify a noun?

Joe Pinsonault

huh, the more I look at this the more confused I get

Færd

03:22

> *the my brother's bicycle

> *a my letter

I don't think that's possible.

Joe Pinsonault

I guess the difference between "the women's march" and "the women's room", (in my head, not gramatically speaking), is that the women's bathroom belongs to women, but a "women's march", is a march for women, and all people are welcome to come show support

Færd

All people, especially women.

That's what's making me wonder. If it's open to all women, then why the women?

> The women's march will take place on January 21, 2017. Each and every woman is welcome to join.

In what way am I making women more definite by using the, I wonder.

Joe Pinsonault

I think you're really just making the march more definite

Færd

That's what I feel to.

I don't know how it's grammatically justifiable, though.

Joe Pinsonault

me either

EngFan

03:38

Hello!!

@DamkerngT. @JoePinsonault : Is there any difference between epitome and quintessence?

Færd

Hello.

EngFan

Hi,

@Færd : That's what's - grammatical?

Joe Pinsonault

03:55

@EngFan yeah. An epitome is a perfect example of a quality. "That house is the epitome of luxury", "He's the epitome of laziness"
Quintessence also means that, but it also means the most essential quality that makes something what it is. "Suffering is the quintessence of life". You see quintessential used more often than quintessence though I feel like

"Suffering is the quintessential quality of life". I can't think of a less somber example sentence

Nagendra

Can anyone explain to me the difference between contemptuous and contemptible? How and when to use them?

mike

04:29

contemptuous is a feeling, if I remember correctly - to feel contempt

if something is contemptible, it makes you feel contemptuous

Nagendra

04:50

@mike So, a contemptible smile makes you feel contempt whereas a contepmtuous smile shows contempt. Am I right?

mike

that makes sense to me, yes :)

Nagendra

Thanks!

V.V.

05:45

Morning. Minus 20ºC.

EngFan

06:05

X: I have 2yrs of experience
Y : Did you just say 2yrs of experience
X : Yes, you heard me right
Does this sentence sound natural to a native speaker " you heard me right" ?

mike

06:20

seeing that this is a job interview situation, you heard me right seems a tad rude or brash

for example, that's correct.

I would probably confirm, with agreement

or yes, that's correct.

Stack Exchange

06:48

1

Q: Usage of the term "test panel"

Is the term "test panel" only applicable to the diagnostic process? Could it be used to describe a series of tests not intended to diagnose a disorder? Perform a panel of tests in a relevant animal model in order to determine the toxicity of the biosimilar drug product. Would this look oka...

phrase-usage

Anonymous

07:59

@Færd Yes, the is the determiner and women's is an attributive genitive. The women's is not a genitive NP in determiner function.

Anonymous

Technically it's ambiguous between the two parsings.

Anonymous

Consider: a very expensive old folks' home

Anonymous

Here, the parse with a very expensive old folks' in determiner position is impossible because that would be ungrammatical as a phrase due to number mismatch.

Anonymous

The women's march has this same sort of structure, but because there's no number mismatch it is technically ambiguous and can be misread as you misread it at first.

Damkerng T.

09:00

Thank you. If you have time, I'd love to know the difference between those and these. — Rose 4 hours ago

Hmm... it could be something we should keep an eye on.

This OP seems to be quite fluent, perhaps more fluent than most fluent learners on our site. They registered with our site 3 days ago. It looks like they seem to like to post question on one thing and then suddenly ask about something else when someone posted an answer.

This is an example of a fancy word that people should avoid in their relaxed conversations. The fact that men are usually in control of a household makes the husband's reply a kind one when he only focuses on an off-topic, funny thing as pointing out the fanciness of "relinquish" instead of focusing on the issue at hand. — Rose 2 days ago

That makes me wonder who was asking the question and who was answering it.

user3306356

09:46

Is fragmentation with something like: "Another year; another spring." a problem?

CowperKettle

no

M.A.R.

11:52

@DamkerngT. ʕ ⊃･ ◡ ･ ʔ⊃︵┻━┻ Related to the ''fish and chips'' incident?

@user3306356 No, why would it be? Your questions are weird

Damkerng T.

12:10

@M.A.R. I wonder that.

It could turn out to be nothing, though. :)

V.V.

13:07

"teaching assistant ". Do they work at secondary schools or higher educational establishments? Or both?

Damkerng T.

13:32

Hmm... I usually think they're in colleges.

Teaching assistant

A teaching assistant or teacher's aide (TA) or education assistant (EA) is an individual who assists a teacher with instructional responsibilities. TAs include: graduate teaching assistants (GTAs), who are graduate students; undergraduate teaching assistants (UTAs), who are undergraduate students; secondary school TAs, who are either high school students or adults; and elementary school TAs, who are adults (also known as paraprofessional educators or teacher's aides). By definition, TAs assist with classes, but many graduate students serve as the sole instructor for one or more classes each semester...

Apparently, they're everywhere!

user2684291

@V.V. Yeah, both, but their job descriptions are generally dissimilar.

EngFan

Is it correct to say " A lane going"
"Take a left turn and you will find a lane going , get into that lane"
Is this sentence grammatical and natural ?

user2684291

@EngFan A "lane going"?

Oh, that was your question... haha. Yeah, I don't know about that.

EngFan

Yes

Haha

user2684291

What do you mean by that?

Damkerng T.

13:44

If someone told me that, I might ask "Going where?".

user2684291

D'you simply mean that after they've hung a left, they'll find themselves on a road/lane?

EngFan

Like lane going to your left

user2684291

@EngFan Why not just "Turn left there."?

EngFan

@user2684291 @DamkerngT. His might help you " you will find two lanes one going to the right and the other to the left"

Damkerng T.

I don't know. I'd simply say Keep left, personally.

V.V.

13:52

Thanks,friends.

user2684291

@EngFan So, "you'll find yourself at a crossroads"?

Damkerng T.

@V.V. Good evening!

EngFan

@DamkerngT. @user2684291 :" You will find a lane heading towards left" - how about this?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... it's understandable, I suppose.

It's a bit clumsy, but I won't say it's wrong, though.

EngFan

Though I think this will also sound weird because the lane itself can't go or head towards left or right, but in my mother tongue we say lane going hehe

user2684291

14:01

Is English your first language?

EngFan

No, urdu

Damkerng T.

Well, in my first language, IIUYC, the equivalent would be เลนตรงไป [lane-straight-go]. I doubt if it'll make any sense in English. (^_^)

EngFan

😊

Damkerng T.

!!translate/เลนตรงไป

Ellbot

th: เลนตรงไป
en: Len straight

Damkerng T.

14:02

Haha!

EngFan

Haha

So Ellbot is your translator?

Damkerng T.

It's our translator. (^_^)

EngFan

Oh!

user2684291

@EngFan Well, that doesn't sound natural to me. I would say "there's a road to the left", and "follow the road to the left"...

EngFan

Oh follow!! Yea u got thanks a lot @user2684291 !!!

Damkerng T.

14:14

My natural choice would be Turn/bear left at the fork, FWIW.

1

Q: Can "at least by" be used to mean "latest by"?

Can you use "at least by" to mean "latest by"? Could you return the book at least by February 1? Could you return the book latest by February 1? Do these two mean the same thing? Does either one have correct syntax?

phrase-meaning phrase-usage phrase-choice

at least by is just weird, even though I imagine that some speakers might use it.

(Both in English and in my first language.)

(Which, IMO, it's weird in either language.)

EngFan

@user2684291: BTW is your first language English?

user2684291

Nope.

EngFan

Then..

user2684291

I'm saying you shouldn't pattern your English sentences on your first language.

EngFan

Ya I try not do so

That's why I started using ELL

Damkerng T.

14:20

> Thayer stated that he favored “falling back ... at least by tomorrow night” lest the Rebels encircle the army and force its capitulation.

> The Camden Expedition of 1864 and the Opportunity Lost by the Confederacy to ...

A real example.

user2684291

I think A-friend should read more and ask less.

V.V.

15:00

Recollect, remember, recall are confusing synonyms.

Morning, Snailplane. Very early.

user2684291

@V.V. Why are they confusing?

V.V.

All meaning "remember "

If you see the difference, share please.

Damkerng T.

Happy Chinese New Year, everyone!

user2684291

Top o' the mornin' to ya, snailplane.

Damkerng T.

(BTW, it'll start this Saturday, but some online shops will have grand sales tomorrow.)

Hmm... remember is quite a handy word. Recall and recollect are more specific to me.

user2684291

15:09

@V.V. merriam-webster.com/dictionary/remember Take a look at the Synonym Discussion section at the bottom of the page.

Anonymous

Good morning :-)

Anonymous

7am isn't especially early for me.

Anonymous

I tend to just wake up early, and then that's it – I'm up for the day.

Anonymous

That's okay though, because I like to see crepuscular animals :-)

user2684291

:>

Færd

15:13

Good morning!

I didn't know crepuscular applies to dawn too.

@snailplane Thanks. Don't you think that semantically, the attributive genitive works like an adjective there?

Anonymous

Yes, you get twilight coming and going both :-)

Færd

So it's dusk that's specific to sunset.

Anonymous

What makes something semantically like an adjective?

Anonymous

Syntactically, it's in attributive function, which adjectives often have. It modifies the head noun.

Anonymous

It is not gradable like most adjectives. It does describe the head noun, but lots of non-adjective things can do that.

Færd

15:18

You're right. I should have said semantically and syntactically.

In the sense that it can combine with other determiners and still modify the head.

Anonymous

No

Anonymous

"with other determiners" suggests that it's a determiner, but it is not

Anonymous

In another sentence it could have determiner function, but as an attributive genitive it has attributive function instead

Anonymous

Hence the name :-)

Færd

What is the grammatical trait that allows adjectives to modify nouns that have other determiners? Like the car --> the red car.

I'm saying that maybe sometimes attributive genitives can have that trait too, so we don't have to declare the structure 'ambiguous'.

Anonymous

15:24

You can't say adjectives can modify nouns that have other determiners because adjectives are not determiners.

Færd

Neglect the "other".

Anonymous

So I'm not sure what you mean. We do have to say it's ambiguous, though:

SinNombre SinApellido

Hii!

Færd

Hi.

SinNombre SinApellido

This is correct? "Contact me by here"? (by)

or is "for", or "to"?

user2684291

15:26

What are you trying to say?

SinNombre SinApellido

Something like "If you have a problem contact me ___ here"

(Is a support message of a page)

user2684291

Nix the underscores?

Anonymous

A student's guide could be either [a student's] guide, where the guide belongs to a student and a student's is a genitive NP in determiner function, in which a determines student, or it could be a [student's] guide, where a determines guide, and the guide is for students in general.

SinNombre SinApellido

___ = could be "by", "for" or "to"

Anonymous

Most examples aren't ambiguous, though.

SinNombre SinApellido

15:28

What's the correct?

Anonymous

@SinNombreSinApellido Here by itself is a preposition phrase. It is an intransitive preposition. You don't need another preposition in front of it.

Færd

@snailplane I thought about that one too! I think most people automatically interpret that as a [student's] guide, unless you ask them "Is it possible to interpret it in another way?", and then they may think of [a student's] guide.

Anonymous

Depends on context, but I would expect people to favor that interpretation too.

SinNombre SinApellido

@snailplane - So, is "contact me here"?

Anonymous

In the title of a book, it would be very rarely misinterpreted.

Anonymous

15:31

@SinNombreSinApellido Yes

SinNombre SinApellido

@snailplane Thank you!

Færd

So, student's here behaves like useful or any other adjective, in being able to come in between a determiner (a) and the head (guide): a guide --> a useful guide or a student's guide.

Damkerng T.

@Færd These student's guides, though rarely used, is possible, too, I think.

Anonymous

Yes, @Færd, exactly, and we call that function attributive function.

Anonymous

It's tricky because genitive NPs usually appear in determiner function, but we have some restricted use of genitives in attributive function as well, as in one fine summer's day.

Damkerng T.

15:34

I imagine it might be possible for someone to evaluate several student's guides. Probably a book series. (^_^)

user2684291

@snailplane Can I use this with proper nouns, as in: "the Sam's car", where I'm referring to a specific car?

Anonymous

You have to memorize the sorts of nominals that work in this position, because they are fairly limited. Genitive NPs work in determiner function more generally.

Færd

@DamkerngT. I just got what you meant.

@snailplane Now it clicked. Thanks.

Anonymous

@user2684291 You cannot. When the genitive in attributive position refers to humans, they need to refer to a general category like students or old people.

user2684291

What about other proper nouns, e.g., "the Jupiter's satellite"?

Anonymous

15:37

So you can have a women's rally, but usually not *the Nancy's rally.

Anonymous

@user2684291 Nope. Attributive genitives are quite limited outside the two uses of referring to general categories of people and indicating measurements.

Anonymous

We do have some fixed phrases that work like summer's day, but oddly not *fall's day or *spring's day.

Færd

@snailplane Like a two months' job?

Anonymous

It would be best to memorize these as exceptions and treat only the two uses I described as productive.

Anonymous

@Færd That sort of thing.

Anonymous

15:40

CGEL has examples for all of this, but I'm typing from my phone and don't have any books handy.

Anonymous

But you can find them in the chapter on noun phrases.

Færd

For someone typing on a phone you're so fast!

Anonymous

Haha, thank you :-)

Anonymous

I feel slow, though.

Færd

Unassuming.

V.V.

15:55

@user2684291 hvala, very useful, thanks.

user2684291

Sure thing.

@snailplane I believe the term is "sluggish".

Jude

16:36

Greetings!

I'm with my new desktop setup :)

CowperKettle

Namaste, Jude!

I'm with my non-working laser printer.

That is almost new but I can't get it to work on Windows 7

Because Windows 7 offers a list of ports but no USB port when I ask to install the printer

I've had computers at home since 1993 but never had problems with printers.

Thank you, Bill Gates

I can't install it on Windows 10 either.

It's bizzare. It works like a charm on Windows XP

But I had to get rid of XP, because it's unpatched and thus is open to hacking

Maybe I became dumber. I dunno why I had no problem installing a SCSI scanner and a color printer on i486dx 12 mb, but have problems with a four-core computer that has 8 Gb of RAM

So I'm using my ancient HP LaserJet 1200, which, for some reason, works on Windows 7, although the Kyocera p2035d is 10 years younger than it.

Damkerng T.

17:08

@CowperKettle Linux is waiting for you. (^_^)

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. I'm too dumb for it. I was too dumb for it even in my better years.

Good evening!

Damkerng T.

Good evening!

Aww...

CowperKettle

So I'm afraid to disappoint poor Linux, but it's waiting for me in vain.

user2684291

Hello, @WillowRex.

CowperKettle

I had a Linux.. I don't recall what kind though.

Some German-made.

German-made and very popular version.

But it turned out quite unwieldy to use

Damkerng T.

17:11

Knoppix, perhaps?

CowperKettle

No. (0:

Mandrake

Damkerng T.

Oh!

CowperKettle

Mandriva Linux

Mandriva Linux (произносится «мандри́ва ли́нукс») (ранее Mandrakelinux («мандрэйкли́нукс») или Mandrake Linux («мандрэ́йк ли́нукс»)) — дистрибутив операционной системы Linux, разрабатываемый французской компанией Mandriva (ранее называвшейся Mandrakesoft). Изначально основан на дистрибутиве Red Hat Linux. Проект OpenMandriva основан на Rosa Linux. == Название == Изначально дистрибутив назывался Mandrake Linux. 24 февраля 2005 года компания Mandrakesoft купила бразильского распространителя Linux, компанию Conectiva, и, 7 апреля 2005 года, сменила название на Mandriva. Одна из причин смены названия…

user2684291

It's "Linux distributions", or "distros".

Damkerng T.

I usually call them distros.

CowperKettle

17:12

My friend in Moscow has Ubuntu

Damkerng T.

If your PC is powerful enough, maybe you can try a more recent Linux in a virtual machine, just a little bit of Linux a day. :) @CowperKettle

CowperKettle

(0:

Damkerng T.

(It's possible to run Windows in a virtual machine on Linux as well.)

Jude

@CowperKettle have you updated your driver softwares?

CowperKettle

I should look up "virtual machines". Install an XP on it and print out documents from XP

@Jude Yes, I downloaded the latest one

Jude

17:17

umm... then try restarting your PC. this might work, but not sure

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle You can definitely do that!

(I'm not sure about parallel ports, but a USB port should work just fine.)

Jude

InputStream, OutputStream are which you may be familiar with. Is this the same thing?

Does above sentence is good enough to put in my presentation slide?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... what do you want "Is this the same thing?" to mean?

CowperKettle

@Jude (0: I did that many times

Jude

@DamkerngT. There is another context which is also named as streams. so, I am going to explain the difference between those in this particular slide

@CowperKettle as you said; you have virtual machines, I guess; something to do with that

CowperKettle

17:20

When I plug in the USB cable, Windows 7 gives me a lower right corner bubble saying "I cannot understand what you just plugged in there"

Jude

Go to driver manager and see anything you could do

Damkerng T.

@Jude I might go with InputStream, OutputStream are what you may be familiar with. Are they 'streams'?

Jude

ahha... that sounds perfect

@DamkerngT. thank you so much!

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Strange. The manufacturer should supply a good driver for it.

@Jude You're welcome!

@Jude You might want to consider adding an and between the two -Streams, BTW.

Jude

@DamkerngT. actually, I can't do that. Those are names of specific Java Classes.

Damkerng T.

17:24

I know. I meant you might want to write X and Y are what you ... instead of X, Y are what you ....

Willow Rex

@user2684291 Hello? I just got this message but am unsure why you are saying hello... Have I missed something?

user2684291

@WillowRex You haven't missed anything; I just said hi.

CowperKettle

@WillowRex Welcome to Language Overflow

The land where obelism reigns supreme

Populated by Indians, Thais, and a stray Californian

Who probably opened a wrong wardrobe to get here

Or the wrong wardrobe?

Darned articles

user2684291

@CowperKettle Are you making a reference to the wardrobe that was used as a portal to Narnia?

EngFan

17:41

across to Greg, who shrugs.)
SHERLOCK: This whole thing’s verging on OCD.
(He turns to look at the Welsboroughs.)
SHERLOCK: My respects. This figurine is routinely repositioned after the cleaner’s been in. (He points to the official picture.) This picture’s straightened every day, yet this ugly gap remains.

What does My respects mean in this sentence?

CowperKettle

@EngFan The shortened form of "I pay my respects to you"

Willow Rex

@user2684291 Well Hi back!

CowperKettle

@EngFan macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/…

Willow Rex

@CowperKettle thanks for the welcome. I love this site!

Anonymous

@Færd See CGEL pages 469 and 470

Anonymous

17:50

@user2684291 :-)

CowperKettle

@WillowRex I love it too. But now that I don't have time to delve in-depth in the questions on the main site, I just tongue-wag in the chatroom. So I should abstain (0:

user2684291

@EngFan I think it means "attention please".

Absinthe makes the tart grow fonder.

Willow Rex

@CowperKettle I am still so new here. I joined because though I am a retired special ed teacher, I never had to teach grammar and I am woefully ignorant. This seemed like a good way to learn grammar and have fun and help others.

EngFan

@CowperKettle : It doesn't seem to make sense

CowperKettle

@EngFan Maybe I was wrong

A good question maybe for the main site

EngFan

18:01

Hmm, ok , thanks

CowperKettle

@WillowRex Yes, it's a good site.

user2684291

@EngFan When I google this, I get a show transcript.

EngFan

@CowperKettle : I appreciate your help

CowperKettle

I'm reading on fetal bovine serum, so my attention is atomized

EngFan

@user2684291: arianedevere.livejournal.com/86813.html

Sorry didn't get you

CowperKettle

18:11

> NOTICE: Since our sera are not pre-aged before filtration, turbidity or flocculent debris may develop upon thawing or storage.

What could they mean by pre-aging fetal bovine serum, I wonder

I googled and googled and found naught

I found gamma ray irradiation and heat inactivation.

but not 'pre-aging'

user2684291

preage

Verb: preage ‎(third-person singular simple present preages, present participle preageing or preaging, simple past and past participle preaged)

(transitive) To subject (a material) to extreme conditions to simulate the effects of age....

@EngFan You didn't get me?

CowperKettle

I know this meaning, but I strive to find mentions of it in the literature

user2684291

Have fun.

Haha.

CowperKettle

Filtration must by itself help avoid debris, irrespective of any pretreatment

user2684291

The meaning is obvious, though.

I like the word flocculent.

CowperKettle

18:16

Yes, but the quote was written by non-native speakers of English, so I should make some effort and decipher the actual meaning to ease the job of the technicians.

user2684291

I think it means wooly.

Willow Rex

Hey all -- I just gave a wrong answer. Do 1) delete it, though there are comments, or 2) Edit and explain my error and state that I'm wrong? (Nevermind as Roseanne, Roseannadanna (sp) would say.)_

Anonymous

@WillowRex You could leave it up if you think it has value (despite being wrong) and don't mind the downvotes.

Anonymous

But deleting it would be fine. If there's anything of value in the comments, we could come up with another way to preserve that on the question.

EngFan

@user2684291 : Oh! I thought you were asking a question " when I google this.." only to realize that wasn't a question. Haha

Willow Rex

18:19

@snailplane I deserve the downvotes for this one and I think being wrong is a great way to learn. Thanks.

user2684291

@EngFan Have you watched that episode of Sherlock?

EngFan

Yes

user2684291

And, so, but, well, then, can you extract the meaning from the context yourself?

Willow Rex

@snailplane I decided to keep it up but then made yet another error in editing. I still left it up. I will learn, or maybe better -- When will I learn?

user2684291

@WillowRex Keine Panik auf der Titanic. You can go here and look at the previous edits, then reinsert the parts you wanted to keep. Edit it as many times as you wish.

EngFan

18:31

@user2684291 :unfortunately, I couldn't, because that doesn't add up to something. He is inspecting something and then he turns around and says "My respects"

user2684291

@WillowRex Ah, you found it. Good job. (:

Willow Rex

18:41

@user2684291 yes, I did. Now let the chips fall where they may!

user2684291

@EngFan I've gathered as much from the stage direction preceding the line being discussed.

"I'm not sure I like the disconnect between freely referring to 'intelligences' and not anticipating an overhaul of the definition of speciation." Can I use "disconnect" in the foregoing fashion?

Joe Pinsonault

@EngFan haven't seen the episode, but is he paying his respects to the figurines?

user2684291

18:58

@JoePinsonault That's unlike him.

Joe Pinsonault

oh well

Willow Rex

19:27

@snailplane I am getting upvoted for being wrong. I love this place!

user2684291

19:39

@WillowRex You can use <s>text</s> in your answer, and it will appear as ~~text~~.

Willow Rex

19:51

@user2684291 I did not know html worked here. Thanks!

M.A.R.

@WillowRex Not here, but basic HTML works on the main site.

Willow Rex

@M.A.R. and it worked beautifully. Thanks, I could have saved myself a lot of angst had I known!

user2684291

20:07

Word of the day: gunboat diplomacy

3

ColleenV

21:52

@WillowRex Are you sure the up-votes aren't for correcting your mistake? Mistakes are a great way to learn I've found, although I prefer learning from other people's mistakes :)

Willow Rex

@ColleenV Oh yes, and it's very nice that I am getting credit when it was such a bad blunder. I appreciate it. It says this site IS about learning.

Transcript for