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01:29
@user2684291 : In our country we call it balance.
 
2 hours later…
03:57
-2
Q: About the drive for help

RoseI know this is off-topic, but I need to be reminded again, and I know no where else to ask. Answering people's questions is surely an act of love, care, and I daresay mercy. I grew up in a place where people are only concerned about their own interests. I know that I may have been rendered incap...

Here's a question that needs to be guided to the exit ...
 
2 hours later…
05:49
Happy hump day :)
tumbleweeds blow past
:)
06:00
most people must be in bed around now. It's only 10pm tuesday, here
06:17
the joys of being in the wrong timezone :)
though there are a few people here in a close enough timezone to me
06:35
@mike Which timezone are you in?
@M.A.R. GMT+06:30
@mike Australia?
@M.A.R. Myanmar
O.o
@mike Never seen a Myanmarian dude before
Myanmari?
Myanmarese?
@V.V. That is the most badass smiley I have ever seen
@M.A.R. - you still haven't - I'm Irish :D
06:45
o.O
people here still refer to themselves as Burmese, by the way :)
It got even more mysterious. What are you doing there?
Teaching English?
We have a @JimReynolds thing that is a native Martian speaker (Apparently Martians speak English) and teaches English in Taiwan.
Teaching, and I coordinate an English Dept. And software development on the side :)
Yeah - I've seen Jim here before - I figured he was a teacher. Seems to be a very interesting person.
Not really -- I'm more interesting
07:17
@M.A.R. - hehe - fair enough :)
I'll take your word for it
08:06
@mike My team of psychiatrists think so.
08:36
> On-going stability tests: 0, 12, 24, 36, 48 and 60 months for each other batch;
What does it mean, "for each other batch"?
One batch in two?
"every second batch"?
@CowperKettle: each other batch sounds odd to my ear
every other batch sounds better
every other batch or every second batch
both are interchangeable
Thank you!
The text was written by Italians
So it's "Mamma Mia!" in some places.
Anonymous
Is the author possibly a non-native speaker? The distributive determinatives each and every are hard to distinguish from each other.
Anonymous
Oh, you answered before I hit enter.
Yes.. and they use the in "The results of the study are given in the table 1"
and so on
BBL
Anonymous
08:46
I was getting a page number for a reference. See CGEL pages 378–9 for discussion of each and every.
3
Thank you, Snails! I won't have the time
Anonymous
You really won't have the time to read Tunstall's thesis then, but chapter four is a very nice discussion of each and every: The Interpretation of Quantifiers: Semantics & Processing (Susanne Lynn Tunstall 1998)
Downloaded it anyway!
Good hump day afternoon, everyone!
Anonymous
Good thing there's an edit button. I'm constitutionally incapable of spelling things correctly on the first try.
Anonymous
Merry Wednesday!
08:50
roll on Fridayyyyyy
My working day is almost over, so technically I'm over the hump :)
Anonymous
Writing ÷ to express division seems better to me than writing /.
Anonymous
But casually on the internet, it seems perfectly normally to write, say, 1/x or 1/4.
Anonymous
I would read them one over ecks and one over four, though, whereas I'd read 1÷x as one divided by ecks.
it's a case of practicality more than anything else
many of the operators we use today evolved form a time when keyboards were quite limited in the symbols they provided
08:52
÷ is kinda cute, IMO. :D
it reminds me of division problems when I was a kid
:)
Hopefully, those problems weren't a problem for you. :D
an obelus is almost always used in children's mathematics books in Ireland
Anonymous
@mike Yeah. And that's probably a large part of why people still use them so much.
Anonymous
@mike Same in the States.
08:54
Same here!
Anonymous
It's pretty universally known as the symbol for division, I think.
÷ looks a bit like the sun over the sea to me at the moment.
Anonymous
Oh, nice :-)
Anonymous
Lots of conventions have been established based on what people have on keyboards.
08:54
@snailplane - I would imagine so. Every calculator I've ever picked up uses an obelus to denote division
Anonymous
For example, people almost universally write Tokyo, not Tōkyō.
True. Even when typing in other languages, many people omit accents unless typing on a dedicated keyboard - it's too much hard work :)
 
1 hour later…
10:14
0
Q: Does "orange" rhyme with "cringe" in the UK?

Teleporting GoatSomeone asked me why "orange" didn't rhyme with "range" and "strange", so I looked it up to have exact phonetics and show them the slight difference, but I found something weird. On WordReference the phonetics is /ˈɒrɪndʒ/. It didn't seem coherent (it sounds very different with other accents), s...

> On WordReference the phonetics is /ˈɒrɪndʒ/. It didn't seem coherent (it sounds very different with other accents), so I looked on other sites, and according to wiktionary that's only the British pronunciation. They give /ˈɒ.ɹɪnd͡ʒ/, which is a little more precise.
Interesting. I thought /ɹ/ would be associated with AmE.
\o Dam
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. /ɹ/ is just an alternate spelling of /r/.
Anonymous
Wiktionary uses it because they think it's less confusing using a more phonetically precise symbol, given that they have transcriptions of other languages alongside English.
nods -- I guess Wiktionary uses only /ɹ/.
Anonymous
10:20
Whereas most transcriptions use /r/ by the simplest symbol principle.
Anonymous
The idea is this: ‹r› is a simpler symbol, part of the basic alphabet, and we don't have a contrast between ɹ and r, so why not use the simpler symbol in phonemic transcriptions?
Anonymous
It's the same reason most dictionaries use /e/ instead of /ɛ/, although both refer to exactly the same phoneme.
Anonymous
Even though our English sound is typically closer to [ɛ] than [e], we consider ‹e› a simpler symbol and there is no contrast between them, and so many prefer it in their phonemic transcriptions.
Anonymous
However, if you present English alongside German, for example, you might think it's less confusing to transcribe it as /ɛ/, and there's nothing wrong with that, either.
Hmm... sounds like they have a good reason after all. :)
Anonymous
10:23
Most dictionaries of English use /r/, but using /ɹ/ is okay, too. It's just important that we be aware of these as notational conventions that do not represent a distinction in sound.
Anonymous
Everyone agrees that we just have one /r/ phoneme, and that it has lots of different phonetic realizations in different dialects and for different speakers.
10:42
Found in the Periodic Table
 
3 hours later…
13:39
Hi
Not very high.
Hehe!
MAR's school
14:03
@EngFan Maybe it can be called that. I'm sorry, I'm not very helpful... ask on the main site, I guess.
You can't run out of balance since it means a difference between two amounts, for my money. :>
Anonymous
Yeah, you can say your balance is running low, but you can't run low on balance.
Anonymous
At least, that's my personal judgment.
14:25
@user2684291@snailplane : Thanks
" someone who gets easily influenced by others"
Or
" someone who easily gets influenced by others"
Is there any difference?
15:21
> Condition the analytical column with mobile phase for about 30’
Does this mean "30 seconds"?
' means minutes
" means seconds
it's not very commonly used though
I've seen it used for more often for coordinates - degrees, minutes and seconds
The prime symbol ( ′ ), double prime symbol ( ″ ), triple prime symbol ( ‴ ), quadruple prime symbol ( ⁗ ) etc., are used to designate units and for other purposes in mathematics, the sciences, linguistics and music. The prime symbol should not be confused with the apostrophe, single quotation mark, acute accent, or grave accent; the double prime symbol should not be confused with the double quotation mark, the ditto mark, or the letter double apostrophe. The prime symbol is very similar to the Hebrew geresh, but in modern fonts the geresh is designed to be aligned with the Hebrew letters and the...
@mike thank you!
The text is by Italians, maybe this notation is more spread there
*more common
15:40
@mike It's very commonly used here though
15:51
@EngFan I think there's little difference, and I'd prefer the latter.
16:02
Uh.
Belay that, the first sounds better. "Someone who gets easily offended."
And by extension of the rule, "influenced".
16:15
@EngFan: someone who is easily influenced by others perhaps?
@snailplane I'm afraid I wont
16:58
Hello! Is it who or whom in the sentence below? Various employees, whom/who we met, echoed the sentiments expressed by the CEO of the company. I think we have to use whom but the answer is given as "who". Is it right? Can you please clear my doubt?
@Nagendra Where are you going to use that sentence?
@Mike : I mean to ask if there is any difference between them
Anonymous
@Nagendra Whom is markedly formal. Both who and whom are acceptable here, though.
Anonymous
The long-term trend is for speakers to use who in all positions. Whom is now most often found when it directly follows a preposition as its complement: To whom am I speaking? But if you don't move the preposition to the beginning, people are most likely to use who instead: Who am I speaking to?
Anonymous
When you use whom in a position where it's acceptable but not required, it is a marker of formal style.
Anonymous
17:07
Most speakers rarely use whom.
@M.A.R. I'm not using it anywhere. I encountered it in a test.
@snailplane Thank you. You've been very helpful.
17:55
Quintessence vs Quintessential?
Noun or adjective? :-)
Quintessence is a noun, quintessential is the adjective
18:18
@JoePinsonault Why'd you use "a" with "noun" and "the" with "adjective"?
uh, because I'm lazy, sorry
it's morning here, I haven't had coffee =)
I have a linguistics question for you fine people. I've been thinking, are there any patterns in the phonemes of human languages that are semi-universal across languages? I don't mean specific sounds in a specific order, but some deeper patterns. For instance, if I presented you with a random list of "words" and their phonemes, could you analyze it or create an algorithm that could, with some reasonable accuracy, say if they were part of a real language, or just a random set of pointless sounds?
maybe a dumb question
This just kills me
I cannot make heads or tails of it
Especially the first formula
I would apply severe obelism to this text were I an editor in that Italian company that penned it
Anonymous
@JoePinsonault Each language has a set of rules for how phonemes fit together, and these rules are called "phonotactics". The idea that there are shared properties in these rules across languages that come from natural properties (specifically, the way our anatomy for producing speech is shaped, and the properties our brains use to distinguish sounds) falls under the study of "phonological universals".
@JoePinsonault each language allows and disallows a certain pattern of vowels and consonants.
Anonymous
For example, J. T. Wright found that the nasal vowel inventory of a language is never larger than the oral vowel inventory, and proposed a mechanism to explain that.
18:30
@snailplane thank you!
@CowperKettle It sounds terribly non-native
@CowperKettle Using ''X'' for the multiplication sign makes me want to punch someone
Anonymous
@M.A.R. ×
Anonymous
×_×; ← Help, I've been punched!
@snailplane Give it to the stupid typist who typed that stupid text full of stupidity
ARGH
Anonymous
Maybe they couldn't find the × key.
18:33
I think it's a reasonable replacement.
@user2684291 Not if it's a font that differentiates between them.
Well, more than the other fonts
Anonymous
@M.A.R. You know, there's a principle in software engineering that some people follow, and I think we can misuse repurpose it here:
Anonymous
> Be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept.
I just can't accept that though.
I mean look at it. It's obvious it's X.
To everyone.
You can't make it look like a multiplication sign by pretending, unlike ''X''
the real mistake was not using latex
you can tell that they just underlined the top line of that second formula
18:38
@JoePinsonault What did they use, I wonder
microsoft word?
You can't even make it like that with MS Word
@JoePinsonault Yeah, and added a couple of underscores at the end. :>
@user2684291 you're right! haha
@JoePinsonault mama and papa, perhaps? :)
Anonymous
18:40
@CowperKettle I think applying severe obelism is fair.
You can't make the spacing around the = like that with MS word
IIRC, Word has its "Equation Editor", or some such.
@user2684291 Yes, that's why I believe it's not MS word
Probably some other Office
@JoePinsonault The random vs. real language thing makes me think of that 1/N rule.
Like Kingsoft (haven't used it)
Or whatever abomination they use in Russia.
18:41
@DamkerngT. oh? What's that?
Not all words in a real language are equal.
Hmm... I can't remember the details; let me see if I can find it on the web.
Ah, it's called Zipf's word frequency law in natural language.
Zipf!
Anonymous
Aww, you found it before I could say it.
That rings a bell.
Anonymous
I want to be in the Zipf saying club.
Anonymous
18:43
Zipf!
Zipf all around
Zipf's law /ˈzɪf/ is an empirical law formulated using mathematical statistics that refers to the fact that many types of data studied in the physical and social sciences can be approximated with a Zipfian distribution, one of a family of related discrete power law probability distributions. The law is named after the American linguist George Kingsley Zipf (1902–1950), who popularized it and sought to explain it (Zipf 1935, 1949), though he did not claim to have originated it. The French stenographer Jean-Baptiste Estoup (1868–1950) appears to have noticed the regularity before Zipf. It was also...
Zipf Zipf Zipf
Zipf it.
@M.A.R. They use Слово.
@user2684291 Should I read that as Choppo?
Anonymous
Slovo!
Is it my turn to link to something Zipf? I wanna link to VSauce's video
Anonymous
Yes!
@snailplane Close enough
18:45
Slow-ah.
Anonymous
As a charter member of Zipf Club, it is your rapidly decreasing duty to post the link.
Anonymous
Also, I see in the "New feed items" drop-down at the top that we've just gotten a post titled "English Grammer".
Anonymous
And, well, that's specific.
Heh, stop having such a normal name, Joe
18:46
Interesting! Thanks for the links
@snailplane Aww, I dismissed it a bit earlier without checking the beautiful titles
weird, @Joe pinged me successfully
@JoePinsonault It came after an edit
Why shouldn't it?
It's not weird.
18:47
Oh, that you mean
Three characters are enough.
I thought your whole username is ''Joe''
Anonymous
@use Ping!
Anonymous
How many people did I just ping? :-)
18:47
2
I wonder if that highlights all the "user"s.
Last I checked
I'm surprised there's not another person named Joe
Anonymous
Yes, 2. Cheater.
@user2684291 Only ones that have been in this room in the past 7 days
@snailplane Actually no, since it's a pain to type user2 every time instead of ''use''
A whole 2 characters
18:53
I feel like I should take some actual linguistics classes
Here's an interesting job for a linguist:
:D
@DamkerngT. But that's the wrong spelling of ''hoomin''
@DamkerngT. I gotta watch that movie
Does it involve aliens attacking?
I'm not sure, but they arrived.
@JoePinsonault Nah, you should buy CGEL and Quirk et al. and start reading
@DamkerngT. Where were they all this time? It bored the heck out of me
19:16
1
A: "the biosimilar principle" vs. "the biosimilarity principle"

NijCorrect usage is "the biosimilar principle". The principle refers to biosimilars, which were previously mentioned and defined as "similar biological medicinal products". That is, it is a principle dealing with the objects known as biosimilars, and not a principle that deals with the property of ...

Would you deem this answer correct, @snailplane?
Anonymous
@CowperKettle I don't know enough about the topic to judge the answer.
Anonymous
I think the correct form, if there is in fact only one correct form, is probably whatever people in the field usually say.
Anonymous
But I don't know what they say.
I see
"biosimilar principle" looks outlandish to me
Anonymous
I searched for "biosimilar principle" and "biosimilarity principle" on Google Scholar and found 0 results for both.
19:21
because it's pharma-officialese, not research stuff
researchers rightfully hate all this officialese
So it would be hard to come by on Google Scholar
Anonymous
It does seem as though they're using biosimilar as a noun.
Anonymous
So it wouldn't be that odd to have biosimilar principle, once that noun is established.
Anonymous
If we're just going by what our gut says, I think TRomano's comment might be the best answer.
Anonymous
I think biosimilarity principle sounds better.
Anonymous
I think Teacher KSHuang's comment is an incorrect answer-in-a-comment. They've failed to take into account that biosimilar has clearly been used as a noun in the preceding text.
Anonymous
19:28
@CowperKettle I read your latest comment, but I don't see the problem with biosimilar principle in terms of meaning.
Anonymous
The semantic relationship between an attributive noun and a head noun is almost entirely unspecified.
I don't understand what it means.
Anonymous
Really, it's hard for me to see a distinction between biosimilar principle and biosimilarity principle in terms of meaning, when I read through the PDF you sent.
The same with me
I cannot get the difference
So "biosimilarity" looks better
Anonymous
Since a biosimilar is something which has the quality of biosimilarity, right?
19:29
yes
Anonymous
So the meaning shouldn't really differ.
it is a drug that has the same biological effect as the originator drug (which was placed on the market first)
Anonymous
@CowperKettle That's my personal opinion. I am not very knowledgeable about the field you're translating in.
Anonymous
But it seems to be TRomano's opinion too.
neither am I
neither are 99% of translators
It's impossible to be knowledgeable in everything
Anonymous
19:31
Honestly, if I could just be knowledgeable about zero coordination, I'd be happy :-)
So in personal communications 99% of fellow translators say that they are at a loss each day in this or that bit of text
Anonymous
Even that seems like too big a topic to master.
Anonymous
It's too big, and it's literally zero!
Anonymous
Maybe I should take up the study of negation.
19:34
No?
Haha.
Anonymous
Aww.
Anonymous
Guess I'm headed for a non-affirmative context.
Anonymous
Hopefully I can find a red cent while I'm there.
Can I interpret "if I do say so myself" as "though it's I who says so"?
@user2684291 Huh? How do you interpret ''if'' as ''though''?
19:50
@M.A.R. The sentence is similar to this one I found online: "I even had a face that wasn't too bad to look at if I do say so myself."
I should've said "though it's I who say so", or "though it's me who says so".
It's an idiom that kind of means "I'd like to brag a little bit, but be humble at the same time"
so I think your interpretation is right
silly idioms, using old fashioned constructions
Alright, thanks. That's congruous with the discussions I found online.
@user2684291 Wow, that's a lot different from the normal ''if I do say so myself''
Hmm, I've used similar constructions in meta posts I think
It's basically just standing on ceremony
@M.A.R. Hm?
@user2684291 The sentence I was thinking about when you said that is something like ''Don't do anything even if I do say so myself''
20:05
@M.A.R. That sentence makes little sense to me.
@user2684291 Why?
because it's so old fashioned sounding, and is only used as the stock phrase, it's hard to interpret it as "Don't do anything even if I say to"
It just looks like "don't do anything even [completely unrelated phrase]"
@JoePinsonault Yeah
I was thinking about the most direct interpretation
It didn't occur to me that it was a fixated expression taken out of the sentence.
@M.A.R. There isn't one... you'd phrase it differently.
As Joe did.
@M.A.R. yeah, I just thought it was interesting how jarring it was to see it used that way
because it makes perfect sense if you don't know about the fixed expression
20:12
@user2684291 I would, doesn't mean a speaker in some cornet of the universe would
I've become very passive after joining ELL, so sometimes even ungrammatical or awkward stuff seems normal to me.
yeah jeez, how come you don't know everything already? =)
ʕ ⊃・ ◡ ・ ʔ⊃︵┻━┻
Back to procrastinating studying. And Dilbert
I'm in my first few months of learning japanese, and I just feel like a child. At least with spanish I could call on all the french vocab in english to try to piece things together
Japanese is too Greek to me
Wiktionary says "take the meaning" means "interpret someone's argument". It, however, lists "get the meaning" as a synonym, which I think means (just) "understand". Who's wrong?
20:26
@user2684291 I also thought ''get the meaning'' is just ''understand''. Considering it doesn't and can't ever have a ditransitive meaning, I think this is a mistake on Wiktionary's part. I can't say for sure though before checking a couple of dictionaries.
And I'm too lazy to do that, so
I think "take the meaning" has the flavor of "I understand your argument, and consider it at least somewhat valid", or "I understand your argument and why you're making it". It's used in the context of a debate more often than "get the meaning"
@M.A.R. Yeah, but I think we might be mistaken.
@user2684291 I usually am
@JoePinsonault What about "get the meaning", is that idiomatic with the meaning of "take the meaning"?
20:28
Now I feel like we're splitting hairs
I don't think we are. It's listed on Wiktionary for a reason.
Hi guys, why is "try not to laugh" instead of "try DON'T to laugh"?
@SinNombreSinApellido Welcome to our chat
@SinNombreSinApellido Would you say: "Try do to laugh."?
Good point
20:34
try don't laugh?
@SinNombreSinApellido Because it's not needed. The default is not that the ''do'' exist, it's that it not exist.
Don't try to laugh
@SinNombreSinApellido Nope
@V.V. I reckon that's an inadequate analogy, eh.
@SinNombreSinApellido When you say ''try not to laugh'', the ''not'' is for ''laugh'', not for ''try''.
@user2684291 Me too. I remember I read something somewhere about some other thing that debunked this very thing you wrote.
But I don't remember it for the life of me.
20:37
@SinNombreSinApellido Look up imperatives in English.
Ok, I thought that as "laugh" is a verb then that would be "Don't laugh"
It is a verb...
Ok, thank you all guys
I know it
@SinNombreSinApellido It is a verb, but the role it plays there is not just the role of a verb.
but I meant for the "don't"
20:38
The main verb there is ''try''
So you get a ''don't'' before ''try''
You have aV+ to inf., Don't + a verb, but "not" "before "to inf ".
@M.A.R. You can always say stuff like: "I do like it.", so I suspect it's not completely wrong.
@user2684291 actually I think I might be wrong. I was thinking of "take the point". like "I take your point, but I think you misunderstand the situation". Not sure about take the meaning
@user2684291 Well, high-level linguistic arguments (snail-level) are only so ridiculously consistent along all possible constructions.
@JoePinsonault I've heard/seen "take the meaning".
20:41
@JoePinsonault I have never heard or seen ''take the meaning'' except in some post from a non-native Englisher from meta.Somewhere
Which actually was supposed to be ''get the meaning''
Ahhhhhhh, nice now I understand it
@JoePinsonault And then it was employed with the meaning given by Wiktionary.
@SinNombreSinApellido Don' that feel better
google.com/… -- Not promising
20:43
A native speaker of American English said it.
Shouldn't a combination with such common words be used more common?
I'm thinking it's just an inferior ''get the meaning''
Which pops up because ''get'' and ''take'' are breadwinners in everyday conversations.
@user2684291 Do you have access to them? Can you talk to them?
Unfortunately, the answer to that is "no".
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
21:00
I also have a bunch of sentences with "take your meaning"; how is that different from "take the meaning"?
21:10
I think it means "If you get what I mean."
I take your meaning, if I do say so myself
21:24
I've thought about the words too much now, and they've lost all meaning
@JoePinsonault You should take a break and listen to this nice old song: youtube.com/watch?v=-VsmF9m_Nt8
haha I love that song @user2684291
It's just a good song, regardless of it being gibberish

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