Language Overflow

Damkerng T.

16:00

@yubrajsharma Um, thanks!

yubraj sharma

@user2684291 I haven't tried it yet. What else could be done with downloadin website page ? I think you mean website page !

@DamkerngT. I was using this I thought you might like this app: play.google.com/store/apps/… app TTS Reader.

user2684291

I mean subpages, dictionary entries.

yubraj sharma

Ok I will try downloading and see the result.

user2684291

Shove all of them in one folder and use it as an offline dictionary.

yubraj sharma

Ok

Damkerng T.

16:04

> In the tube, the soy meat is easy to crumble and sauté like its pork sausage counterpart; ...

I think this is a good counter-example.

Generalization is hard.

But hmm... and sauté ... may make it mean differently from what I thought.

user2684291

@Færd What's PEU?

Damkerng T.

> It's easy to crumble under the pressure and wallow in misery for long periods of time.

That's a better counter-example.

@user2684291 Practical English Usage by Michael Swan

user2684291

Ah, thanks.

Damkerng T.

No problem :)

Færd

@DamkerngT. Because saute is transitive?

Damkerng T.

16:09

@Færd nods

So wallow would be a better example.

Færd

Swallow? ;)

Damkerng T.

Oh, I didn't think of that!

Let me really read the sentence ...

Nah! It's wallow.

Færd

@DamkerngT. That's a different structure, I'd say.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... different how?

I'd think the rule PEU proposed covers this case.

Færd

> It's easy to talk to Dam.

> Dam is easy to talk to.

These don't have the same grammar, I think.

Damkerng T.

16:13

nods -- I see you point!

But!

Færd

Wut?

QuokMoon

@snailplane Sure thanks

Damkerng T.

The It in our example is not a dummy-it like in yours.

Let me recheck the context.

Færd

I find it equivalent to:

> To crumble under the pressure and wallow in misery for long periods of time is easy.

Damkerng T.

Oh, yeah! You're right! It's a dummy-it!

Færd

16:15

What seemed really suspicious to me was that the rule was restricted to those three adjectives: easy, difficult, and impossible.

I agree with the author that easy cannot normally be used like that, as in * Iron is easy to rust.

yubraj sharma

@user2684291 Well, I tried that, but the audio won't download together with the page.

Færd

But so cannot many other adjectives.

Damkerng T.

@Færd nods -- I was wondering whether the generalization was correct or not. Looks like he is correct.

Færd

What do you think about this? :

> Iron is possible to rust even in dry weathers.

Damkerng T.

I suppose I wouldn't notice it if we hadn't had our discussion.

Færd

16:18

> I'm good to write. I'm a good writer.

That is clearly wrong, no?

Damkerng T.

Right, it sounds strange indeed.

I suppose Audrey Hepburn's Nothing is impossible. The word itself says "I'm possible"! played a trick on my brain.

I guess saying I'm possible to accomplish anything jokingly is passable, even though it's not strictly grammatical.

Færd

I'm not sure I agree.

Other than that everything is jokingly passable.

I think it should be considered case by case; it depends on the grammar of the adjective.

Damkerng T.

nods

Færd

For example, with ready:

> I'm ready to accomplish anything.

Pretty normal.

> * I'm bad to play football.

> * I'm possible to play football.

yubraj sharma

Is there any browser in which I can use internet in night mood. Eye strin needs to reduced. Now I'm Uing crome. It has no option for that. @DamkerngT.

Færd

16:25

But,

> I'm possible to play football with.

Damkerng T.

It sounds a bit odd, but I think it's okay.

user2684291

In section 283 he says that with some verbs a that-clause is impossible. He mentions "want", "allow", and "ask", and then says "Some common verbs that can be followed by object + infinitive:" and lists those verbs. Does this mean these cannot be followed by a that-clause? One of the verbs is "request" — can't you say "I requested that he do it."?

Færd

@DamkerngT. Yeah, I was just saynig that.

Damkerng T.

@yubrajsharma Try to set the brightness as low as possible.

Færd

@user2684291 Request that is possible.

yubraj sharma

16:28

Yes I did so yet eyes get strained.

user2684291

Is there a list of verbs which I can't use a that-clause with?

Færd

Hmm. Dunno.

Damkerng T.

@user2684291 I don't think we should read the entry that way.

user2684291

I've just realized I've been using that-clauses with "want" and "ask" because I thought the subjunctive was possible with them. "I ask that he do it." sounds normal to me.

Damkerng T.

Demand, perhaps.

Færd

16:32

> Unfortunately there is no easy way to decide which nouns, verbs or adjectives can be followed by that-clauses. It is best to check in a good dictionary.

(583.5)

Damkerng T.

@Færd Makes sense!

Færd

So PEU doesn't have that list.

It certainly what I do when in doubt. I can't memorize a big list, but I can look them up one by one when they come up!

I tend to search for patterns in corpora rather than being happy with what I'm told by some dictionary, though.

user2684291

It had just never occurred to me that that structure might be wrong with some verbs.

I've been playing a dangerous game.

:>

Færd

Well, human languages will never cease to surprise us.

V.V.

Isn't it the same in any language? Just use common sense

Færd

16:38

Define common sense.

user2684291

Y'know, these verbs are so common you never check the dictionary.

Færd

> And now I want that you deliver a message to the General

V.V.

It's when you don't know the rule, but it looks weird to you.

Færd

> I don't want that you should be the last to know

> But I also realize that he want that we would show if we could restrain alone a bit

These are pretty hard to find in COCA. I wouldn't base any rules on these singular results.

> You want that I will be the one to talk to Helen?

> You want that I should get you a new car?

user2684291

46 results with "I ask that you".

Færd

16:44

Well, that's common I think. It didn't ring wrong to me in the first place.

Damkerng T.

@Færd Sounds like the writer tried to make the language used by Escobar more convincing.

Færd

Escobar? Did you check the context?

Damkerng T.

Yes.

nytimes.com/books/first/w/wright-favorite.html

Færd

Ah. I didn't bother to do that. Some of these may well be intentionally distorted.

Mick

Word of the day: mardy

3

Damkerng T.

16:49

@Færd I usually do that, especially when it sounds almost perfect but slightly off.

Færd

I congratulate you on your perseverance!

Damkerng T.

Well, curious is my middle name! :D

Færd

You young 'uns.

Damkerng T.

I suppose that's how I learn to notice the differences between dialects and how to guess where a non-native speaker might be from.

Færd

Wow. How far can you go in finding their first language?

Damkerng T.

16:54

A lot of people seem to make it quite obvious in their profiles. :)

Færd

Aha. I thought you could learn about that by only analyzing their English.

Damkerng T.

I suppose one could do that, but it'd be much tougher.

I can't be 100% sure, but this is not an exact science anyway.

Færd

Well, it's fun to guess.

Damkerng T.

nods -- In any case, I think all of us are more or less aware of this. The more interaction, the likelier we can guess.

Færd

It's much much easier if you can listen to their accent. But text only, that's mind-boggling if you can get half of them right.

Damkerng T.

16:59

Some people say they could even identify a person by reading a text. (or lots of texts)

Like handwriting, I suppose.

Linguistic profiling

Linguistic profiling is the practice of identifying the social characteristics of an individual based on auditory cues, in particular dialect and accent. The theory was first developed by Professor John Baugh to explain discriminatory practices in the housing market based on the auditory redlining of prospective clientele by housing administrators. Linguistic profiling extends to issues of legal proceedings, employment opportunities, and education. The theory is frequently described as the auditory equivalent of racial profiling. The bulk of the research and evidence in support of the theory pertain...

user2684291

"In higher education, linguistic profiling has been found to impede student comprehension. In a 1992 study, D. Rubin found that undergraduate university students would comprehend material more poorly if they heard a non-accented lecture presented with a picture of an Asian female."

"When the same non-accented lecture was presented with a European American teaching assistant, students had a greater ability to comprehend the material. This suggests that face identification may be enough to make students believe that language performance will be accented, which corresponded with a belief that comprehension would be reduced."

Damkerng T.

Isn't that strange? :-)

user2684291

17:14

Yup.

Damkerng T.

Because of things like this, it's probably better to keep our accents. :-)

Not too thick that it might impede understanding, but blend it in enough and yet it still keeps our identities.

user2684291

Haha. I wonder if my (foreign) accent is readily recognizable, eh.

Damkerng T.

My theory is virtually everyone has an accent, and it's virtually impossible to hide your real accent when you face a very good ear.

Then again, I guess most of us non-native speakers are doing adequately okay. :-)

Stack Exchange

0

Q: We aren't doing our jobs

One of the most important jobs we do here is to vote on answers. Good answers are meant to be upvoted and bad ones downvoted. The primary reason for this is so that learners who come here looking for reliable information will know which answers contain reliable information, and which ones contain...

discussion

Araucaria

Aaaarrrrrgggghhhhh ......

Damkerng T.

17:31

Aarrgghh!

Araucaria

Aarghh!

Damkerng T.

My coverage on the main site is now as low as only about 3-4 questions a day. -- sad

Accents, oh, accents! Here is my accent: drive.google.com/open?id=0B8KKQ0fwLEZ9Q005RFpjdTRmczQ

(Unrehearsed; some reading errors inside, be warned!)

Anonymous

@Færd → en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tough_movement

2

Damkerng T.

Oh, nice name!

Anonymous

See CGEL p.1246

Araucaria

17:47

@Færd, @snailplane I don't know if this might help:

10

A: To infinitive used after adjective

Adjectives which take infinitival phrases as complement fall into three camps. Some adjectives determine our interpretation of the subject of the infinitival clause. Some adjectives determine our interpretation of the object of the infinitival clause. Some adjectives don't determine our interp...

Damkerng T.

> Margaery is mardy,
Her manner, an incurable malady,
Her life, tipsy-turvy,
But she's happy. Oh, Margaery.

A goofy rhyme based on Word of the Day. :P

@Araucaria Ah, I was thinking about that post but had no idea how to find it. Thanks for posting it again here.

Damkerng T.

18:14

0

Q: Define a/the function to be

Which is the correct way to define a function? Define a function f(x) to be f(x)=2x Define the function f(x) to be f(x)=2x. Since f(x)=2x is a specific function, my guess is "the" is correct. But that specification is determined after saying "to be", so it might be "a function". Also, if th...

articles definite-article

Talking about answers without votes, this one is one of them.

(I'm not sure, but I think all variants are possible: "... define function f(x)", "... define f(x)", "... define the function f(x)")

@TRomano by the way I should say, google ngram is banned for Iranians!!! the politics. — Ahmad Aug 14 '15 at 12:23

Oh! Is it still true?

V.V.

18:46

Very interesting.

Færd

19:26

@Araucaria Thanks for the link!

@snailplane Thanks! Do you think ready is also a tough adjectiev?

Oh, that's discussed under Arau's answer.

In the comments, that is.

@Araucaria It does seem a crazy state of affairs when one can say, perfectly grammatically The dinner is ready to eat, are you? — WS2 Oct 7 '15 at 15:15

Araucaria

@Færd Yes, it belongs to two categories :)

It's a tough adjective and a control adjective ...

user2684291

@DamkerngT. I wouldn't've known where you were from. Apart from the mistakes, it's a good accent. (:

Damkerng T.

@user2684291 Hehe! Thanks! :)

user2684291

@DamkerngT. The usual terminology is, I think, either "Let f be a function on ... defined by f(x) = ..." or "Define f : S_1 \to S_2 ...", or some variation thereof. Note that f(x) isn't a function.

Damkerng T.

19:44

nods -- I think it's more common to just write f(x). I must admit that I'm not really sure how we should write it if we want to put function in front of f(x).

Does this sound right? "a function f of x"

Anonymous

Yes

Damkerng T.

Ah, so "the function f of x" would be okay, too, in the context that the is appropriate, but "function f of x" without an article may not sound right, then. Thanks!

user2684291

20:18

@DamkerngT. I think so too, although I'm never sure about articles, apart from a few textbook cases.

Damkerng T.

Me neither!

user2684291

@DamkerngT. a.clyp.it/arudj4dc.mp3 Alright, here's my attempt. I'm tired, though, so I stumbled here and there, and I don't know if I'm too quiet again, although this time it may be my fault.

Damkerng T.

@user2684291 Nice! That's pretty good!

user2684291

@DamkerngT. Thanks, man.

Damkerng T.

Reading something unprepared in another language (or in our first language, for that matter) is a bit different from our natural speech, I think.

@user2684291 BTW, the loudness is not a problem this time! :D

user2684291

20:30

Alrighty. I moved my face very close to the machine while I was reading the text.

Damkerng T.

LOL

user2684291

I had to lower the brightness, in fact.

@DamkerngT. To me, it's much more easier to speak without reading. When I'm reading, I'm careful to adjust the speed and the enunciation, and sometimes I'm not prepared for a longer sentence, or some such, so my breathing might be off. When I speak normally I don't think about these things. This is because in normal speech you focus on what you're saying, whereas in reading you focus on how you're saying it.

Damkerng T.

nods -- Same here. Maybe it's universal.

Anonymous

20:46

Reading aloud in your first language(s) is harder to do naturally than simply speaking, too.

Damkerng T.

I think some texts are more easier to read (out loud) than others. Not sure what makes the difference.

Cardinal

Hi guys ^_^/

Damkerng T.

Hi! :D

Stack Exchange

21:09

0

Q: How come I never see any Aussies on here?

They need to weigh in on some of these questions, otherwise I'm just going to assume they say "crikey" and "good on yer" and "shrimp on the barbie" all the time.

discussion

Davyd Diniz

Good evening

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