Language Overflow

SpringLearner

16:12

hello everybody

V.V.

Hi, how are you?

SpringLearner

HI

I am fine,thank you

how are you?

V.V.

Fine, thanks.

SpringLearner

@V.V. are you from india?

V.V.

Why?

SpringLearner

16:22

out of curiosity

V.V.

I am from cold snowy Russia

SpringLearner

then you are my friend

V.V.

Remind me about your location

CowperKettle

> I am from (the?) cold snowy Russia

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Interestingly, I feel like I want to use the there!

CowperKettle

16:32

@DamkerngT. But is it needed there?

@snailplane, maybe you could tell

Damkerng T.

I don't know. I only know I want to use it there! :D

CowperKettle

> Store the solution (for) not more than 1 month at a temperature of 4±2°С. (is "for" strictly necessary?)

Damkerng T.

I'd use Store the solution no longer than ...

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. wanting perpetuates samsara

Damkerng T.

:D

CowperKettle

16:34

(0:

Damkerng T.

I can't remember the lyrics of Circle of Life now.

For good old memories!

The Lion King - Circle Of Life

►

CowperKettle

Yes, a good cartoon

> The early Buddhist texts suggest that Buddha faced a difficulty in explaining what is reborn and how rebirth occurs, after he innovated the concept that there is "no self" (Anatta).

Nowadays, he could have just sent the asker to Buddhism StackExchange

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure if the said text is correct.

CowperKettle

I should go to Buddhism SE and ask whether desiring more points is bad.

And if they say "yes", I will downvote their answers, to help them reach perfection.

Damkerng T.

There are a few schools of Buddhism anyway.

@CowperKettle But this is LOL!

CowperKettle

16:39

(0:

Damkerng T.

!!translate/อนัตตาคืออะไร

Ellbot

th: อนัตตาคืออะไร
en: What is soulless

Damkerng T.

Interestingly, it translates anatta as "soulless".

!!translate/อนัตตา หมายถึง ความว่างเปล่า ความไม่มีตัวตน การไม่ยึดมั่นในตัวตนใด ๆ

Ellbot

th: อนัตตา หมายถึง ความว่างเปล่า
en: Means soulless emptiness

Damkerng T.

Argh! It's too difficult for it!

Anonymous

16:42

@CowperKettle It would be a little strange to use the, I think.

CowperKettle

@snailplane thank you! Probably because it's a proper noun

Damkerng T.

Hooray! snailplane to the rescue!

Anonymous

@CowperKettle Many proper nouns are used as part of definite proper names: The United States of America

Anonymous

Maybe a bit on point: Ukraine, formerly The Ukraine

CowperKettle

Yes, but since Russia has no apellation to it, adding "the" is wrong

Yes, The Ukraine because it meand "the borderland (of something)"

Anonymous

16:43

What about The Hague?

CowperKettle

It was the Borderland of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and then the borderland of the Russian Empire

@snailplane hmm.. dunno

Damkerng T.

If The Hague is a name, can we insert some adjectives between The and Hague?

Anonymous

To the same extent you can do so to any proper name with the, I think.

Damkerng T.

nods

CowperKettle

If only Poland was on an island like Britain, it might have retained its democratic traditions and might have not been crushed.

Would an English native speaker understand this:

> Prepare the solution ex tempore.

Anonymous

16:51

Maybe someone who's been on speech team :-)

Anonymous

But we do have extemporaneously for that.

CowperKettle

ah!

Damkerng T.

!!translate/ex tempore

Anonymous

Not that I'm an English native speaker, mind you. I'm not English at all! ;-) I'm a native speaker of English.

Damkerng T.

Ellbot?

Ellbot

16:52

en: ex tempore
en: ex tempore

Anonymous

Haha.

Damkerng T.

Oh!

Anonymous

Brilliant :-)

Damkerng T.

:D

CowperKettle

@snailplane I know

>Store the solution no longer that 20 minutes, in the dark, at room temperature.

This poorly combines with short time periods

I wonder how to phrase it right

Arrowfar

16:55

Hello all

CowperKettle

Evening!

> The solution expires after 20 minutes of being kept in the dark at room temperature (?)

Is this okay?

Anonymous

@CowperKettle Sure.

CowperKettle

> The solution expires after being kept for 20 minutes in the dark at room temperature.

@snailplane Thank you!

Anonymous

That works.

CowperKettle

Too bad I can't enter this into Trados

Anonymous

16:56

However, saying it expires might be slightly less clear than explicitly stating what not to do.

CowperKettle

Do not use the solution after keeping it in the dark for 20 min at room temperature?

Use the solution no later than 20 minutes after preparation,

> Use the solution no later than 20 minutes after preparation.

I dunno how to add the dark and the room temp there. I'll try.

> The solution should not be used after being kept for 20 min in the dark at room temperature.

Anonymous

Two sentences?

Anonymous

Store the solution in the dark at room temperature. Do not store the solution for longer than 20 minutes.

Anonymous

@CowperKettle That works

CowperKettle

> The expiry time of the solution is 20 min. This time is calculated based on the following storage conditions: dark environment, room temperature.

Anonymous

17:01

The solution can be stored in the dark at room temperature for up to 20 minutes.

CowperKettle

Nice!

> There are nine and sixty ways for constructing expiry statements,
And every single one of them is dull.

Anonymous

@CowperKettle We need ourselves an expiry statement shiner.

CowperKettle

@snailplane (0:

@snailplane Donald Trump!

You have him.

Arrowfar

In Urdu sometimes I unknowingly/involuntarily make a plural by adding English ‘s’.

does it happen to other non native speakers here as well? By the way what’s the name of this? Maybe I have heard of this mistake.

CowperKettle

@snailplane Oh, I misread that as "sinner"

Anonymous

17:03

L2–L1 transfer or L2–L1 interference.

Arrowfar

I see

CowperKettle

@Arrowfar No, in Russian that would sound very weird

We do add the ing ending and make gerunds based on Russian words

Arrowfar

@CowperKettle In my language too, and funny.

CowperKettle

kartoshka = potato; kartoshing = a picnic organized by bicyclists who gather to bake potatoes

Arrowfar

@DamkerngT. Hi. So I am using the browser the same way, it is not that bad, just the search is haphazard a bit :-)

Damkerng T.

17:07

Hi! Okay. :-)

Arrowfar

I'll re insntall it though sometime

yeah it is fine. :)

Anonymous

L1–L2 transfer or interference is pretty much universal. Everyone makes mistakes in their L2 languages resulting from the influence of their L1 languages. It doesn't happen in reverse nearly as much, but there can be some influence. You might also look up bidirectional transfer.

Damkerng T.

> consequenceofsound.net/2016/12/…

I wonder what kind of ambassador it was about.

Anonymous

The influence doesn't always result in an error, though. There can be L1–L2 or L2–L1 transfer that influences your choice of words or how you phrase things, but not in a way that is ungrammatical or infelicitous in the target language.

Anonymous

So sometimes "transfer" is more appropriate than "interference".

Anonymous

17:10

Or just "influence".

CowperKettle

I was chatting with a Russian friend, explaining English grammar to her, and said "The reader is king" (which is very odd in Russian, we have another stock expression for that).

Anonymous

But as a technical term "transfer" is more common.

Arrowfar

@snailplane Ah, thanks for the information and the word "bidirectional transfer", first time I have heard.

Damkerng T.

@snailplane I just saw an ad by Google, in Thai, made by Thais, and it gave me the impression that those young men and women in the ad might be thinking in English but speaking Thai as their first language.

(I know, it's confusing!)

Anonymous

Those are technical terms. There are no common terms for L2–L1 transfer. Instead, you'd have to say something like "Learning English is starting to affect my Urdu!" or something like that.

Anonymous

17:14

@DamkerngT. What in particular gave you that impression?

Damkerng T.

Perhaps everything they said in the clip. It would be more effective in English than in Thai.

At least to me.

But because they made it sound sufficiently effective in Thai, it gave me that weird feeling!

Anonymous

It's not just grammar, word choice, and so on, either.

Anonymous

When you learn a foreign language, the sounds of that language can affect how you speak your native language.

Damkerng T.

It's probably the whole package.

Anonymous

Jim Flege has a lot of research and publications online, freely available, about interaction between L1 and L2 phonology in language learning.

Damkerng T.

17:17

It's like someone has watched so many ads in English, and when they make their own ad, it still sounds pretty much like those ads in the English language, even though they use their own first language.

Anonymous

jimflege.com/Research.html

Damkerng T.

วิธีง่ายๆเพื่อคุยภาษาไทยกับแอป Google

►

This is the ad!

> Two notes on terminology. I nearly always used the term "L2 learning" rather than "L2 acquisition" because I consider learning to be an ongoing process without a clear endpoint.

Interesting!

CowperKettle

17:53

The Russian female name Nadya means "hope"

There's a joke based on that. A guy says to a girl: "You know, my first girlfriend was also named Nadya. You are my fourth. Could I call you Episode IV: A New Hope?"

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

"Wait for the next Hope," said she.

BTW, the short dialogue at the end of the ad "OK Google" above is a bit similar:

> M: Okay, Google, how can I turn a friend to a girlfriend?
F: Is that a good idea?

Anonymous

18:08

Probably into

Anonymous

@CowperKettle I used to know a girl named Hope.

Damkerng T.

@snailplane nods -- I thought so, and then I thought maybe it was okay either way. Looks like I was wrong. :(

Now, reading it again, it sounds indeed wrong.

The implication is if one is being lenient with the child (spare the rod), then it is to the detriment of the child (spoil the child) which is along the lines of the OP's question: doing something which on the outside seems "good" but the results are "bad". I suppose one can argue the merits of "being lenient", but most parents, at least first time parents, often have problems disciplining their child. Tears are a very powerful weapon. — Peter 2 hours ago

Tears, meet ไม้เรียว!

!!translate/ไม้เรียว

Ellbot

th: ไม้เรียว
en: birch

Damkerng T.

Hmm...

Oh, "historical, a formal punishment in which a person is flogged with a bundle of birch twigs."

I suppose it's more or less okay.

Anonymous

> P.S. I am sure that "killing with kindness" does not work in AmE.

Anonymous

18:16

I wonder how the OP came to that conclusion.

Damkerng T.

I don't know. Maybe he has asked someone else somewhere else.

Anonymous

I do think that phrase has multiple meanings, though.

CowperKettle

@snailplane Nice!

Damkerng T.

Let's try Thai phrase a day ...

CowperKettle

My cousin is named Nadezhda (Nadya)

Damkerng T.

18:22

!!translate/จีบสาว สาวไม่เล่นด้วย

Ellbot

th: จีบสาว สาวไม่เล่นด้วย
en: Young girls do not play with

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Oh! I see!

Hmm... it's another phrase that's hard to translate.

Nagendra

I heard Sita’s knocking at the door. Can you please tell me if the sentence is correct or not? I think we need not use possessive form here. Am I right?

Damkerng T.

A rough translation: จีบสาว สาวไม่เล่นด้วย ~ Flirt with a girl, the girl doesn't flirt with.

@Nagendra I think you're right. I remember that the possessive form is okay, too.

~~ end of a Thai phrase a day ~~

:-)

How about some more phrases in other languages?

Anonymous

@Nagendra I think it would be more common without the possessive.

Anonymous

18:27

But I think the possessive is okay too.

Nagendra

@snailplane @DamkerngT. Thank you.

Damkerng T.

No problem! :D

Stack Exchange

18:43

5

Q: 'I got a cold' versus 'I caught a cold'

The questions here are not about meaning. They are about the usage of the verbs get and catch in the context of getting a cold. My dictionary says that get can be used to mean 'to become affect to a illness; to suffer from a pain, etc.' and gives the example: I got this cold off you. My g...

Cardinal

20:44

How to rephrase the following sentence in a more stylish way (Formal-technical)?

> They included the parameter X in their investigation in order to get close to a more realistic scenario.

What about this:

> They included the parameter X in their investigation in order to bring the scenario to the verge of practical situations.

Damkerng T.

20:59

I don't know if I should give you any advice because a) I'm not a native speaker, b) I don't think I'm the best English writer around here, and c) I don't know if the style you're aiming at or you should be aiming at is the style I'm thinking you should be aiming at.

But FWIW, if I guessed everything right, you shouldn't use either.

(By the way, "technical" doesn't equal "formal". @Cardinal)

And so he left. (^_^)

Damkerng T.

21:24

1

A: Do all native English speakers actually pronunce the "th" sound?

All "standard" accents maintain the sounds /θ/ and /ð/ It will definitely stand out if you can't pronounce the "th" sounds (there are two, the voiceless version /θ/ and the voiced version /ð/). For adult native English speakers with a standard accent, it comes completely naturally and it doesn't...

Because the answer mentions the Cockney accent ...

Learn the Cockney accent with Jason Statham

►

Let's watch it one more time!

Cardinal

21:36

@DamkerngT. I see. Suppose that that sentence is a part of IEEE paper!

Damkerng T.

@Cardinal Oh, then it's my turf!

Cardinal

@DamkerngT. Thanks, ^_^.

Damkerng T.

One thing I can share with you is that an engineer doesn't like to read flowery language as much as a journalist or a literature student doesn't like to read technical stuff. :-)

Cardinal

@DamkerngT. Hmm, if I understood that "turf" correctly, you mean you are engaged with those guys :D

Damkerng T.

Well, I'm a member.

The meaning I used is this one: "an area regarded as someone's personal territory; one's home ground."

Cardinal

21:39

@DamkerngT. Exactly. I don't want to sound pompous or ... .

@DamkerngT. I see.

@DamkerngT. May I ask which type of member?

Damkerng T.

@Cardinal There is nothing wrong with flowery language, but most technical papers focus more on clarity.

@Cardinal Well, let's be satisfied at "a member".

:D

Cardinal

@DamkerngT. :)) ok.

@DamkerngT. I see.

Damkerng T.

FWIW, between the two alternatives you posted here, the former sounds better.

Cardinal

@DamkerngT. thank you.

Damkerng T.

The latter doesn't sound as good, and its meaning is somewhat hilarious to me. :-)

Cardinal

21:43

@DamkerngT. :))

Damkerng T.

There are several ways to improve the former alternative, IMO:

> They included the parameter PLACEHOLDER in their investigation in order to get close to a more realistic scenario.

You can rephrase "in order to get close to a more realistic scenario" as another sentence, as another clause, or front it somehow, e.g., "In order to keep their PLACEHOLDER as realistic as possible, they included the parameter PLACEHOLDER in their investigation".

Cardinal

@DamkerngT. But keep means they had some previous attempts. I want to describe a single previous work.

Damkerng T.

No, keep doesn't have to imply previous attempts.

Cardinal

nods - I didn't know that.

Damkerng T.

If you want to compare this work with the previous work, let's see ...

Hmm... I don't think trying to use realism is a good idea. (I was trying to rephrase it with "improve".)

Cardinal

21:52

I'm wavering between "practical situations" and "realistic" ones.

Damkerng T.

Oh! But what do you want it to mean?

Cardinal

Ok, as you know, for the sake of simplification, in investigations, it is common not to include some parameters or neglect some of them, making the model unrealistic.

Damkerng T.

nods

Cardinal

For example, consider the difference between the model of an ideal capacitor and a real capacitor with resistance.

Damkerng T.

nods

Cardinal

21:59

By "realistic", I mean a scenario which intakes more details and is more resemble to what is going on in practical situations.

Damkerng T.

You mean real situations, right?

Cardinal

yes.

Damkerng T.

Okay, how about this: To improve the effectiveness of our procedure when applied to real situations, ...

Procedure is a placeholder, by the way, because I don't know what it is in your work.

Cardinal

nods

Damkerng T.

Oh, and perhaps it should be their rather than our.

Cardinal

22:01

It's very good.

Damkerng T.

Yay! :D

Cardinal

Thanks.

Damkerng T.

My pleasure!

Cardinal

Here is 1:33 am. I think I should move towards my bed!

Damkerng T.

Sleep tight! ;-)

Cardinal

22:03

o/ :-)

Damkerng T.

\o

Stack Exchange

23:47

3

Q: Asking 'the pleasure of your company' in an invitation

This is a great site - I would happily pay for this advice. I must fess up and say I am a native English speaker (albeit an Irish one) but I'm running into trouble wording a party invitation. Is it correct to ask the pleasure of your company? - My husband doesn't seem to like 'requesting' this....

style formality register

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