Language Overflow

Damkerng T.

01:06

0

A: Do both these sentences mean the same thing, are they grammatically correct?

Both of your sentences are understandable but awkward and would be considered to be created by a non-native speaker. Better might be He's been looking for Jenny for longer than it took for me to build this empire. Which is still odd in using the contrast of times for looking and for buildi...

> He's been looking for Jenny for longer than it took for me to build this empire.

Really?!

than it took for me

Man_From_India

> It doesn't matter whichever you choose.

Logically and grammatically I think this sentence is fine, but I think whichever there is not very common.

It's strange!

@DamkerngT. it took [for me to build this empire].

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India I don't think it sounds idiomatic, to be honest.

Man_From_India

But I'm wondering if dropping for is fine or not, as OP says.

Damkerng T.

I think it sounds way more idiomatic without that extra for.

Anonymous

01:22

For isn't dropped – it was never there in the first place.

Anonymous

Oh.

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. o just checked OALD, and it seems that for is needed there.

Anonymous

I was looking at It took me to build an empire as a complete sentence, and you can't add for there.

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India What's the example given by OALD?

Anonymous

But in He's been looking for Jenny for longer than it took for me to build this empire the for is optional.

Damkerng T.

01:24

I wonder why they think we need a for.

Man_From_India

I just checked the patyern. I mean the udage guide.

Anonymous

The difference being one is taking time.

Anonymous

There is no need for for, but including it is fine.

Man_From_India

Oh got the sentence - It took her three hours to repair her bike.

From OALD

Damkerng T.

Personally, I don't see it (adding that for in lekon's sentence) as an improvement, though.

Man_From_India

01:27

@snailplane i thought both are synonyms. The structure is different though.

Anonymous

Can't put for there, but you can in the time it took (for) her to repair her bike.

Anonymous

So I need a better explanation as to why you can or can't add for. Hmm.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT There's no need to add for, agreed.

Anonymous

Ah:

Anonymous

It took three hours for her to repair her bike.

Anonymous

01:29

It took her three hours to repair her bike.

Damkerng T.

@snailplane Ah, this alternative sounds good!

Anonymous

These sentences have two different structures but mean the same thing. One has for, the other does not.

Anonymous

So if we pull out three hours and make relative clauses:

Anonymous

[ it took ___ for her to repair her bike ]

Anonymous

[ it took her ___ to repair her bike ]

Anonymous

01:33

You end up with one version with for and one version without, superficially otherwise the same, but with the gaps in different positions.

Damkerng T.

nods -- The for-alternative when relativized sounds like something from another century to me anyway.

Anonymous

They're both fine.

Damkerng T.

That, I can agree, but I doubt if it's really used very often (in this century).

I can imagine it in a setting like House of Cards, but probably not in Outcast or The Walking Dead.

Damkerng T.

01:47

0

Q: Meaning of "chap" in that sentence

I came across the word "chap" while reading the book The Rules of Life by Richard Templar. It occurs in the sentence But then all my problems are object related and needs practical solutions - a chap's sort of thing. It is in the chapter "Rule 58: Know when to listen and when to act". From...

meaning-in-context

Aww... that reminds me of Asimov!

Anonymous

I really don't think it's uncommon. I think I say the for version all the time.

Damkerng T.

@snailplane Hah! I mean in a than-clause?

"Something something more/less time|longer/shorter/quicker/faster than it took (for) X to ..."

Man_From_India

> He's been looking for Jenny for longer than it took for me to build this empire.

That bolded for is optional, and I think it's better without it.

Damkerng T.

I suppose for long tilted the likelihood of for for our answerer.

Note to self: conjecture #1: Real people don't really use grammar, not consciously. Familiarity and analogy are always the main means. However, we can formulate a grammar to describe a language used by a person or a group of speakers.

Damkerng T.

02:12

Someone wrote the title of an episode as "Empatty for the Devil", and I thought empatty was a real word for a while!

Another interesting episode name: Contrappasso

I still haven't read more of Dante's since the last time!

Fantasier

03:13

@DamkerngT. I think grammar, in the sense used in linguistics, is not conciously used. "Familiarity" is the result of having grammar in your head (if you're a native speaker). Analogy is one of the main ways, emphasized most perhaps in a usage-based account, that native speakers construct the knowledge that is grammar.

(Yes, linguists are crazy people trying to dig into the mind and describe what we use unconciously)

Damkerng T.

@Fantasier People hacking people. :P

CowperKettle

04:05

Sawasdee khrap

It's full-blown winter here, the first hardcore winter day

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. I don't think for longer is wrong, but doesn't sound good.

Morning Kettle

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Brrr!

CowperKettle

I have about 10 inches of snow on my window sills on the balcony

Or is "window sills" only for the sills inside the house?

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India Oh, I didn't mean to say for longer was wrong. My point was maybe our OP answerer was thinking of for long (familiarity), so to him, for longer than might've sounded better than the original (just longer than).

CowperKettle

> The snow came down last night like moths
Burned on the moon; it fell till dawn,
Covered the town with simple cloths.

Absolute snow lies rumpled on
What shellbursts scattered and deranged,
Entangled railings, crevassed lawn.

As if it did not know they'd changed,
Snow smoothly clasps the roofs of homes
Fear-gutted, trustless and estranged.

The ration stacks are milky domes;
Across the ammunition pile
The snow has climbed in sparkling combs.

You think: beyond the town a mile
Or two, this snowfall fills the eyes

>

Persons and persons in disguise,
Walking the new air white and fine,
Trade glances quick with shared surprise.

At children's windows, heaped, benign,
As always, winter shines the most,
And frost makes marvelous designs.

The night guard coming from his post,
Ten first-snows back in thought, walks slow
And warms him with a boyish boast:

He was the first to see the snow.

CowperKettle

04:32

I was told that this poem by Wilbur is "nothing special" but I recall it after each snowfall.

Cardinal

07:48

@DamkerngT. YaY! \o/

Jude

09:44

Greetings!

@DamkerngT. are you alive? :D

I mean in the chatroom :)

Arrowfar

10:19

Howdy @Jude how are you?

Jude

@Arrowfar Ohh, It's my pleasure to hear from you :)

how are you?

Arrowfar

@Jude I'm fine. just lurking in chats :-)

Jude

I have just passed my Java 8 exam :)

Arrowfar

Congrats! :D

Jude

my college in previous workplace ask me to write a recommendation on LinkedIn

I'm might wonder what should I write

He and I work together sometimes, and I was bit senior in my position

and BTW; we both are in same age

that's how we got to know each other

Arrowfar

10:25

Cool.

You mean "A letter of recommendation"?

Jude

kind of a thing

Arrowfar

So people from all over Linkedin related to my field find me. I don't know how they do it. It is all automatic I think.

It is like automatic networking.

V.V.

12:11

@CowperKettle, I changed the provider, hope it would be better. @Cardinal, where have you been?

it's going to be minus 7°C.

yubraj sharma

13:21

Hi

Why My this question is closed ell.stackexchange.com/questions/108085/…

How can I reopen it ?

@DamkerngT. @Man_From_India

Man_From_India

13:38

The reason of closing is provided. Though it's true that it's opinion-based, I don't think it's close-worthy. Anyway that is completely my own opinion, and I don't have any good answer to this question as of now. I'm on my cell phone.

yubraj sharma

And what about this ell.stackexchange.com/questions/108145/…

Man_From_India

I think it wont be open too long. Did you tried searching similar questions on ELL or on other sites?

Anonymous

@yubrajsharma I reopened it

Man_From_India

@snailplane thanks. I think this question should migrate to our elder member ELU :P

V.V.

13:56

Morning, @snailplane.

Arrowfar

@yubrajsharma This is also a good read about "That" or "Which".

Hi @V.V. how are you?

Man_From_India

0

A: That and which with plurals

In the case of using "that" you are saying there are many more apples than the twenty you do not own. In the case of using "which" you are saying there are 20 apples, they are all not mine. This random site i googled explains it very well.

Very strange!

Anonymous

@V.V. Good morning :-)

yubraj sharma

14:13

I wanted to ask it in ELL but it was closed

Arrowfar

@yubrajsharma "May you get success in your goal/goals" is fine.

You could also say something like "May you get success in all your endeavors."

Or "I wish you the best of luck in all of your future endeavors" etc.

yubraj sharma

Nods

But someone said 'In' should be avoided

Arrowfar

"in" is fine.

yubraj sharma

see in comments in questions

@Man_From_India why strange?

Man_From_India

@yubrajsharma i mean the answer is strange. Mmmm wrong, I mean.

Arrowfar

14:27

The easiest method I find is Googling the sentence that you are unsure about. Even search only the part of a sentence and see what you get. I do this all the time and get many good results from Google books etc. It is quite helpful.

yubraj sharma

Why I was given wrong answer !!!!

Arrowfar

Hence the three downvotes I guess.

Hi @Man_From_India

yubraj sharma

What do you think of this answer given by me ell.stackexchange.com/questions/107186/… I got no votes @Man_From_India This answer is wrong ?

Damkerng T.

@Jude Congrats!

Arrowfar

Hi Damk!

Damkerng T.

14:38

Hi!

Man_From_India

Hi @Arrow

Damkerng T.

-3

A: Good Wishing for someone's success

I wish you success with your goal. Not in the goal. The word "get" needs to be dropped. It's a lazy word meaning it's frequently used instead of being more direct. Like saying, " Do you get my meaning" instead of "Do you understand my meaning". The word "in" implies being contained within. "In yo...

Hmm... -3!

Is it that wrong?

It would've been better if the three downvoters had left what they think as comments.

Still can't see what's really wrong about it here.

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. exactly. A down-voter should leave a comment.

Damkerng T.

Maybe the secondary point about using get implies laziness triggered something.

But it's really not the main point in the question.

(FWIW, I think I wish you success (with your goal(s)) sounds a lot better than I wish you get success (with your goal(s)).)

Man_From_India

I think the tech team should tweak it a little bit, so that whenever one down-votes, one should leave a comment.

Damkerng T.

14:50

@Man_From_India That'd make voting not anonymous anymore!

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. yes true

yubraj sharma

Nods ....

Man_From_India

I actually don't think it would affect much, whether the voting is anonymous or not. Hmmm from the point of view of content.

Damkerng T.

Some people retaliate when they get downvotes. I think that justifies anonymity.

Arrowfar

Also "downvote" plus "a comment" usually leads to bickering.

Man_From_India

14:54

@DamkerngT. if they get comment and know the fault, why should one retaliate? He migh not agree with the down-voter and it would commence a good healthy discussion, I guess.

yubraj sharma

Why every answer is getting downvotes here ell.stackexchange.com/questions/108145/… ? question has also been strted to close too !

Arrowfar

ha!

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India Sometimes some people just insist on their being correct. Some issues are not cut and dry either, so people can hold different viewpoints, IMHO.

Man_From_India

nods that at times are the case.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... -2?!

Arrowfar

14:57

Do you guys celebrate Halloween there?

Damkerng T.

Jay's answer is fine, I think.

Man_From_India

No. Here it's Diwali.

Damkerng T.

@Arrowfar No, I don't. We don't this year anyway.

yubraj sharma

Here is 'Dipawali' too !

Arrowfar

@DamkerngT. I see, me neither. Why not this year?

@Man_From_India cool!

Damkerng T.

14:59

We're still mourning.

yubraj sharma

@DamkerngT. If it's fine ,Why he got down votes ?

Damkerng T.

@yubrajsharma That's very puzzling. I can't think of any good reason either.

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. is is not fine in that sentence.

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India Huh? What do you mean?

Arrowfar

@DamkerngT. Sorry to hear that. My sincerest condolences!

Damkerng T.

15:01

@Arrowfar Thank you

yubraj sharma

@Man_From_India in which sentence? Is ?

Arrowfar

@DamkerngT. So did you ever meet the king in person? Just curious :)

Damkerng T.

@Arrowfar Only once, when I graduated. A couple times from a place very far away. His Majesty visited our rural areas more often.

Arrowfar

Oh nice!

@DamkerngT. You live in rural areas or you mean like "suburban" area?

btw if I seem too nosy then feel free to ignore the questions lol.

just thought I'd ask.

Damkerng T.

@Arrowfar I mean rural, like as in less developed parts of our country.

Arrowfar

15:07

Ah!

I think it is very peaceful in such places.

City life is quite stressful.

well it depends on the city as well

Damkerng T.

It is, but it's far from some important things, like hospitals, educations, and so on. Very far back then. It's been improved now, though.

Arrowfar

I see.

Damkerng T.

When I still went up the hill every year in voluntary camps of the Hill Tribe Club of my U, some children had to walk 2 hours to our school. Some even 4!

In one camp, we had to walk 8 hours to get to where they lived.

Arrowfar

Wow. That's too much walking.

Damkerng T.

There was no good road, so!

V.V.

15:27

Hi.

I seem to have a better connection, Dam. At least now.

Damkerng T.

Hi!

Yay!

V.V.

Let's hope it will last.

Damkerng T.

I hope so!

Arrowfar

@V.V. I used to have bad internet connection too. Well I still have the same package but they have improved the connectivity.

Bad internet connection sucks. I have been there.

@DamkerngT. By the way sorry if I interrupted the grammar discussion above :p

Damkerng T.

Don't worry. We were multitasking, as usual. :-)

Arrowfar

15:34

Cool!

:D

V.V.

You are lucky then.

Oh,I know.

Arrowfar

@V.V. How cold is it there now?

V.V.

Not very cold

Minus three

It was 0.in the afternoon.

Arrowfar

Nice.

Minus three seems very cold to me :-)

V.V.

People wear coats with hoods because we are having either rain or snow.

Arrowfar

15:39

ah cool!

V.V.

Most of them don't wear caps or hats.

or gloves.

Arrowfar

I have experienced hailstones in past, I was a very nice experience. But they can hit a person if they are big. Do you get hailstones there?

V.V.

Rarely

Mostly in summer

M.A.R.

16:23

5

Q: When can users delete their posts?

In this question on Meta here: How does deleting work? What can cause a post to be deleted, and what does that actually mean? What are the criteria for deletion? it says that users can delete their own answers. I regularly review my own posts on EL&U and ELL and delete any that I feel are eit...

discussion support delete

They suspended Arau on ELU.

Damkerng T.

Huh?!

Man_From_India

😮

M.A.R.

Apparently a mod thought he was mass-deleting his posts, which occur when people want to rage-quit.

Rathony

@Araucaria Are you here?

@M.A.R. Nah.

M.A.R.

Well, that is the case.

Rathony

16:27

Almost all of them have been deleted for the span of three long damn years.

M.A.R.

Maybe that'll teach him not to edit the answers to 'urbfurbcbibwuhheyhx4i' next time he deletes them.

@Rathony Well yeah, which is why this isn't a rage-quit, but unfortunately might lead to one.

Rathony

@M.A.R. Nah... It has been done on ELU without any problem, unless you do it on a massive scale.

I've done it more than several times.

Other users do it, too.

I am not saying it's the right thing, but sometimes you want to save you some embarrassement.

Especially when you misread a question.

M.A.R.

It's perfectly okay to delete your own posts when others haven't found them useful.

Rathony

@Araucaria Ping me when you see this message. I am thinking about posting something.

M.A.R.

It's even useful to delete posts people found useful when you have the knowledge to realize they're inaccurate.

Rathony

16:31

@M.A.R. Exactly. And some posts you can't.

Sometimes I vote to undelete an answer which reads very useful.

M.A.R.

Ideally, a post should be edited, but 1. Not possible in all cases, that. And 2. No one feels like doing it always.

@Rathony Well, on Chem, we respect the author's decision to remove an answer, no matter how good it is

Rathony

@M.A.R. Well, on ELU, we vote to undelete and many of answers have been undeleted by votes. I do notify the OP by commenting.

@M.A.R. Exactly.

M.A.R.

@Rathony Exactly.

Rathony

@M.A.R. First time we agreed on something!!

19

A: Why does “attach” have two Ts but “detach” only one?

As user77834 points out, the currently accepted answer is quite simply not correct and should not be accepted. This question is really, unwittingly, asking two separate questions: Why is there a difference in the number of consonants in word pairs like attach and detach? Since the answer to (1...

Like this one.

Damkerng T.

From the meta post, it sounds like a user will get a message from moderators, to which they should reply, when they're suspended.

Rathony

16:38

@DamkerngT. Pretty long time. How are you?

Damkerng T.

Good, thanks! How are you?

Rathony

I am running :-)

Damkerng T.

Oh, now I'm sure this is really you. :-)

Rathony

Ha ha. Language Overflow!! Very nice name.

M.A.R.

@DamkerngT. Yes, mod messages are ways mods speak to people in private. Every suspension has a mod message attached, but not the vice versa

@Rathony Well, this was supposed to be a blog.

Or chblog.

Damkerng T.

16:40

@M.A.R. I see. Thanks for the info!

M.A.R.

Whatever

Rathony

@M.A.R. But you can reply to the mod message once.

Unless the mod responds to you again.

M.A.R.

Maybe it is STILL a blog. MAYBE Dam is analyzing us for his robot revolution. O.O

@Rathony Yep, for a good reason

Damkerng T.

@M.A.R. It's already begun, you just don't know it. :P

M.A.R.

Told ya.

Now I'm gonna go tell the world.

Damkerng T.

16:42

LOL

M.A.R.

But the world is too busy on the phone. Dammit.

THIS WAS PLANNED FROM THE BEGINNING.

Damkerng T.

We're everywhere. We're in your phones, too. Mwahahaha... :P

M.A.R.

Throws the laptop outta the window

Damkerng T.

Haha!

Rathony

See you guys more often!! Have fun!!

Damkerng T.

16:46

Hope so. Have fun, too!

M.A.R.

@Rathony Cya

Damkerng T.

TIL hedgehogs can't throw their spines at will.

Never touched one in real life, so hedgehogs are somewhat like snow to me...

M.A.R.

Hedgehogs are like Thailand weather to me.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

CowperKettle

That's odd. I had a hedgehod in my flat

M.A.R.

16:52

Your flat is odd

CowperKettle

I gave away the hedgehog after a couple of days

Because it was running all night around my flat, each night

M.A.R.

Heh, poor thing must've been confused

Or thought it's reached the end of the world. O.o

CowperKettle

No, all hedgehogs run all night

That's their custom

They are "hunting"

M.A.R.

I think that's how most animals feel about hoomin buildings

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