Language Overflow

Man_From_India

00:51

@DamkerngT. Do you by any chance remember, even at least roughly, what does the note say?

Damkerng T.

Something counter-intuitive, and it's about either existential-there or relative pronouns, on subject-verb agreements.

Man_From_India

It's strange that whichever ones you choose don't matter is fine, but which one you choose don't matter is not. Yet this is fine - it doesn't matter which one you choose.

I think there it has to be don't as we have ones.

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India To me, that's logical.

Man_From_India

nods

Damkerng T.

I don't think Whichever ones you choose doesn't matter is really fine, though.

Man_From_India

01:05

Hmmm will come back later for it. Have to go now.

Damkerng T.

See you!

CowperKettle

sawasdee khrap

Damkerng T.

Sawasdee khrap!

Damkerng T.

01:28

Found it!

Sep 20 '15 at 14:37, by Damkerng T.

There's also some related info in the 2002 reference grammar CGEL, page 505, examples [18.ii.a-c]: "[What is/are needed] is/are managers with new ideas and the will to apply them", where both singular and plural verbs (in any combination) in both the matrix and the subordinate clauses are acceptable when the predicative complement (PC) is a plural NP (such as "managers with new ideas and the will to apply them" in the CGEL example). I'm assuming that your example would have used a plural PC if it had been filled out for us. — F.E. Feb 15 at 10:32

yubraj sharma

Hi !!!

Good morning!!!

Damkerng T.

Hi!

yubraj sharma

Hope you're all fine !

Damkerng T.

Thanks!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. It's ungrammatical.

Damkerng T.

01:37

@snailplane Thanks for the confirmation!

Man_From_India

01:56

Which one is ungrammatical?

yubraj sharma

I wonder for this ell.stackexchange.com/questions/107659/… unaddressed question

I've read in BBC that we use use "being" as a verb-ing. BBC has listed two kinds of usage. What I want to learn here is about the "preposition+verb-ing" form of usage. It has been said that "being+past particle" here is functioning as a noun. But I don't know what kind of meanings it would convey. So, the following are two examples from BBC:
1. I look forward to being interviewed on the current affairs programme. (What does "being interviewed" mean?)
2. She was afraid of being accused of a crime which she did not commit. (Does it mean: She was afraid of that she was accused of a crime,...)

Damkerng T.

@yubrajsharma I searched for 'noun" on that page. No results.

Also, I think at this point, you should know what being Xing means in those sentences.

I've said this once:

Oct 27 at 16:07, by Damkerng T.

@yubrajsharma I can see that you're struggling. It might be better if you review previous chapters in your textbook, though, especially the passive voice and participles.

yubraj sharma

02:22

Nods @DamkerngT.

Questions might be difficult to be answered too !!

Damkerng T.

Yes and no.

It's not a really difficult question, but I guess that most ELL users think it's difficult to help you to understand how it works.

Sorry if I was being blunt.

Most of these are really basic, and I'm sure that you've got the gist of the meaning and usage, but you seem not to be happy with that.

My personal feeling is, the more we try to help, the more you may get confused.

But you could work the problem out on your own by a) reviewing the basics, and b) trying to rephrase things in simple sentences.

Damkerng T.

02:48

@yubrajsharma If you have High School English Grammar (Wren & Martin), check out chapters on Synthesis of Sentences (e.g., Book II. Composition, Chapter 12) and practice their exercises (e.g., Exercise 88). These exercises should help you to familiarize yourself with participles.

Anonymous

04:30

@Man_From_India Whichever ones you choose doesn't matter is ungrammatical.

CowperKettle

@Arrowfar thank you

> 1. The test is passed if no viral particles are detected. 2. The test is a pass if no viral particles are detected.

I wonder which is better.

Guten morgen all

Anonymous

I'd probably go for #1, but both seem at least okay :-)

CowperKettle

Thank you, Snails! (0:

Damkerng T.

04:56

Observation of the day: when we're not speaking, our tongue at rest touches the roof of the mouth!

(Why doesn't it fall down?)

Damkerng T.

05:11

1

Q: Yesterday was birthday of Jon or Yesterday was THE birthday of Jon?

What is the right way to say that yesterday was a birthday to my friend? a) Yesterday was birthday of Jon b) Yesterday was the birthday of Jon?

The birthday of X sounds really odd to me, unless X is an important figure.

A birthday of X also sounds odd to me, unless X is something long.

Like, a birthday of Jane's husband's grandfather.

Word of the Day: birthminute

2

Jude

05:42

Good Morning Everybody!

how can I ask for my business card from HR?

Is this correct?

Hi, I haven't received my Business card yet. Will I get those?

I just asked it in that way...

@DamkerngT. 2 upvotes for you!

Anonymous

06:00

Whenever I've gotten business cards, I always got more than one. Usually groups of 250 or 500 or more.

Anonymous

So I would say business cards (plural), and I wouldn't capitalize it.

Anonymous

Unless you're only getting one business card.

CowperKettle

10:26

Poem of the day: My Life Closed Twice Before Its Close (Dickinson)

> My life closed twice before its close—
It yet remains to see
If Immortality unveil
A third event to me

So huge, so hopeless to conceive
As these that twice befell.
Parting is all we know of heaven,
And all we need of hell.

This is odd.

I was 90% sure that StoneyB and I discussed the last stanza, but I searched and found naught

Arrowfar

Afternoon @CowperKettle

CowperKettle

Maybe the spirit of StoneyB started visiting me to discuss poetry now and then.

@Arrowfar Good afternoon, Arrowfar!

Arrowfar

Now that's deep.

;)

CowperKettle

(0:

Arrowfar

Who knows, maybe he did visit you.

CowperKettle

10:37

(0:

Unknown123

Hey, I need help, which one is correct
is it "sample input" or "input sample"?

CowperKettle

depends on the context

Unknown123

I see in programming competition they use
sample input and not input sample
https://www.hackerrank.com/challenges/tutorial-intro

so which one is correct?

on what context they can be different?

CowperKettle

sample input = "an example of what a user may enter using his keyboard"

input sample = "a piece of textual information from the overall large body of information entered into the program by user (or users)"

Unknown123

10:58

Thank you very much for your answer, it is very informative for me, i learn something new everyday hehe

CowperKettle

46

A: Why is the FBI making such a big deal out Hillary Clinton's private email server?

Why is the FBI making such a big deal out Hillary Clinton's private email server? Because she: Violated laws and rules by using personal email server Performed actions that risked classified information being exposed Violated laws and rules by deleting emails Examples: Executive Order ...

Word of the hour: termination for cause

Never heard this expression

CowperKettle

11:26

> To maintain cell viability and prevent the cells from contamination, the cell banks are stored in liquid nitrogen vapors at the necessary extra-low temperatures. (do I need the before necessary?)

CowperKettle

11:45

34

A: "Fill out a form" or "fill in a form"

It appears that this is a British/American distinction. The Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA) reports 92 incidences of “fill out a/the/this form” and just 2 of “fill in a/the/this form”, clearly establishing “fill out” as the standard idiom in American English. I haven’t worked out h...

Britishers fill in, Americans fill out

M.A.R.

12:47

Iranians fill up

Rathony

13:18

@M.A.R. Wow...

M.A.R.

We don't! Just kidding

Rathony

@M.A.R. Is it ELL chat room?

M.A.R.

Yep

ELL's main room.

Which is six hundred percent better than the site

Rathony

@M.A.R. What happened to the other room? Is this the only room that ELL has? I don't remember.

M.A.R.

@Rathony There were two previous main rooms, now frozen.

Rathony

13:21

@M.A.R. I see. Thanks. I don't have any business here, though. I am out.

yubraj sharma

@DamkerngT. Do you mean in this book drive.google.com/file/d/0B4F1V4s4WzCTc3RhcnRlcl9maWxl/…?

I do have this book downloaded

Man_From_India

13:52

@snailplane nods will it make it grammatical if we replace doesn't with don't?

Anonymous

14:11

@Man_From_India Yes

Man_From_India

@snailplane Yay thanks. I already edited my answer :-)

Arrowfar

14:43

@yubrajsharma Which book is it? I'll have to request access to see the name.

yubraj sharma

What about these sentences:
>what is the risk of being killed in a war.
>what is the risk to be killed in a war.
Do both convey the same meaning ?

@Man_From_India

Arrowfar

No. Second one is not grammatical. I would use the first one.

yubraj sharma

What if I said : "What is the risk in a war to be killed?

And "Is there a risk to be killed in a war ?

Arrowfar

By the way on second thought I think "what is the risk to be killed in a war" is fine as well. I just haven't come across that wording often.

I'm not very good at the technical part of grammar so I can't explain the why part.

yubraj sharma

Let's wait for others openion too

Arrowfar

14:57

Yep.

Man_From_India

This is not correct, if you find it it is very rare and colloqual.

yubraj sharma

I think there is someone out there to help me to learn it !

Nods. ....

Can I ask why incorrect? @Man_From_India

Oh ! "To be killed" works opposite!

I think I need to ask this question in ELL, What do you think?

Man_From_India

Ask it.

yubraj sharma

I'm gonna ask it !

Man_From_India

15:13

Both your sentences with to be is fine. But rare.

CowperKettle

15:28

Happy Halloween all!

Man_From_India

15:41

Happy Halloween :-)

Man_From_India

15:53

Btw my tshirt is on its way :-) got a mail from customs that I have to upload some id proof, and send an authorised letter for them to release my parcel.

Thanks ELL :-)

CowperKettle

@Man_From_India oh my god, it is even more complicated in India

No proof was requested from me

Man_From_India

Yes it's too complicated here :(

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India Strange! But yay, it's there!

"What is/Is there a/any/the risk (in the war) to be killed?" doesn't sound right to me.

Anyway, the more important question is, why would you want to use it?

@Jude Thanks!

@yubrajsharma I can't access the book you linked to, but Wren & Martin wrote only one English grammar high-school textbook, if I'm not mistaken.

Damkerng T.

17:00

0

A: whichever ones you choose

Whichever means: whatever one or ones out of a group You don't use 'one' or 'ones' after whichever. You either use 'whichever' or 'which one': It doesn't matter whichever you choose. it doesn't matter which one you choose. Some examples: Whichever colour you choose you can be...

It's tough being non-native speakers.

Sometimes we think what's possible incorrect, and sometimes what's incorrect possible.

(I didn't downvote anything, though.)

6

Q: Indirect object, proximity, and ambiguity

As a lad I was taught that certain verbs such as "to say," "to describe," "to distribute," and "to explain" can take an indirect object only when it immediately follows a preposition, and that this indirect object can never immediately follow the verb. New learners of the language are still bein...

ambiguity indirect-objects

I wonder if this question will get any new answers.

Damkerng T.

17:24

Word of the Day: ambitransitive

Ambitransitive verb

An ambitransitive verb is a verb that can be intransitive or transitive without requiring a morphological change. That is, the same verb form may or may not require a direct object. English has a large number of ambitransitive verbs. Examples include read, break, and understand (e.g., "I read the book," saying what was read, or just "I read all afternoon"). Ambitransitive verbs are common in some languages, and much less so in other languages, where valency tends to be fixed, and there are explicit valency-changing operations (such as passive voice, antipassive voice, applicatives, causatives,...

Fantasier

@DamkerngT. I doubt it.

Damkerng T.

nods

Fantasier

I believe there is a better way to answer that question though. (Assuming the accepted answer is an answer at all)

Damkerng T.

Totally agree!

Fantasier

Well, I won't comment more, because I'm too busy to write an answer myself.

Damkerng T.

17:28

BTW, have you used PrimeTime (movie app)?

Fantasier

No. Is it good?

Damkerng T.

I don't know. I saw it bundled in DTAC packages.

Fantasier

Really? I use Dtac too.

Damkerng T.

For new phones, I think.

Fantasier

That reminds me. The other day I was going to download the DTAC app, which can be used for discount at some restaurants. I hit the download button, saw the permissions it asked for, and hit cancel.

The app requests almost every possible permission.

Damkerng T.

17:31

Could be bloatware!

Hmm... is bloatware countable?

Fantasier

Could have been part of some big surveillance project.

I don't feel safe 5555

Arrowfar

Hi Fantasier I haven't seen you in a long time. How goes it?

Damkerng T.

I guess there is no green zone anymore. LOL :-)

Fantasier

@Arrowfar It's going okay. Thanks for asking :-)

One of my developer friends said sometimes an app requests so many permissions just because the developers are too lazy to update the part when they want to implement new features that require extra permissions.

Understandable, but doesn't make me feel any safer.

Damkerng T.

That's a likely reason, but hey, that says something about both developers and the platform(s)!

I'm looking for a new phone, thinking between iPhone SE and a Sumsung android phone.

Fantasier

17:36

I don't use post-Jobs Apple products.

Damkerng T.

Ahh

I haven't checked yet, but I have a feeling that I can't read stuff on iPhone SE's screen very well.

Man_From_India

It's very tough to get it without spending fat sum. DHL courier got the parcel at Delhi on 20th and they are informing me today. Custom rule is if the parcel is in there warehouse more than three days they imposes some kind of charges. In addition to the charges based on the goods' valuation. Disgusting law and order. Now DHL is ready to act ss my agent based on my authorization letter. It says any charges will be paid by DHL, and then immediately I have to pay them back.

Damkerng T.

(And the voice interface isn't as good as Star Trek's, so ...)

@Man_From_India Aww

Man_From_India

And talking to DHL people came to know that the amount might be huge. They are unaware of the charges customs imposes. It's clear that customs charges haphazardly.

Damkerng T.

I think I had to pay that kind of fee, too, like when I ordered second-handed mainboards from China (LOL).

Man_From_India

17:40

Why?

This is non sense.

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India I'm not sure how it works in India. For something like a mainboard, the custom fee could be somewhere around 15-40 bucks.

@Man_From_India In my case, they saw it as importing. I'm not sure why in your case.

Man_From_India

Even DHL who mostly deals with them doesn't know how they charge things. But it depends on the goods valuation.

@DamkerngT. the same thing happened for me. They took it as an import.

CowperKettle

1

A: What does "honorable parts" mean?

Day, night, month, year! My constant care has been to have my only child worthily matched. And here I find an educated man of equal birth with honorable parts, with fine estates and handsome to behold, and what is my reward? A puking fool, who answers, "I'll not wed. I cannot love. I a...

Man_From_India

DHL says senders didn't give them much information, no invoice and all. I don't know how international shipment takes place, but it sounds very unlikely.

CowperKettle

I never knew about this: a man of many parts (from the answer above)

Damkerng T.

17:45

@CowperKettle Me either.

CowperKettle

@Man_From_India oh. my. god. I love Russian Post Service now.

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India nods -- It looked more or less like any other packages I got via mail orders, IIRC, our shirt and stickers.

Man_From_India

@CowperKettle hehe far better :-)

Damkerng T.

Maybe in 5-10 years, a robo-quadcopter will fly shirts and stuff right to your door from the US by itself, avoiding all the fees! :P

Man_From_India

I want at least a better India :(

Damkerng T.

17:52

I hope you'll have it someday soon!

"Mom, why is the sky so dark today?" "Oh, honey, it's just another holiday season. People send a lot of gifts this weekend, so there are more robo-quadcopters in the sky today."

Man_From_India

Haha

Now a sci-fi :D

Damkerng T.

:D

CowperKettle

18:04

@Man_From_India You know, my sister in India once asked me to upload her photo onto the governmental foreigner registration website. It was the worst thing ever. The website asked the photo to be "3 by 5 centimeters" (yes! not pixels! not size ratio!) And however I tried, it said that the size was incorrect. I still shudder at the memory.

I just dropped my attempts after several hours

I used all possible sizes in pixels. It was idiocy incarnate.

I wish to look in the eye the guys who wrote that code for the website

Damkerng T.

I wonder how they measured the size of a photo submitted by their users!

CowperKettle

It is a complete mystery. This was probably a feat unsurpassed in computer history.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

Man_From_India

@CowperKettle i know. I have to go through all these idiocy.

CowperKettle

I found web forum discussion where people tried to upload their photos literally for days on end! And the threads dated months back! Nobody fixed this idiocy!

I found a discussion in a web blog, and in comments people said that you should pay, well, practically a bribe to a little firm that "does the uploading for you"

Man_From_India

18:08

@CowperKettle so common place here.

CowperKettle

It was just unbelievable. Indians harming their own country by making it uber-hard for foreigners to work, live etc.

Man_From_India

Not only foreigners, but indians too.

CowperKettle

I hope Indians one day declare war on corruption.

Man_From_India

They did many times. But you know how these end.

CowperKettle

Yes, I know, just the way it ends in Russia. (0:

Hindi Russi bhai bhai.

BBL, need to set studded tires on my bicycle

Too much snow on the streets

Man_From_India

18:11

That's why they are friends from the time history remembers :P

Arrowfar

@CowperKettle Snow. Wow. I am jealous :-) Good luck with tire changing!

CowperKettle

19:31

@Arrowfar Thank you. Tires changed.

Took 1:20

Because the bicycle was dirty as hell

And I washed it for good 40 min

There's a heavy snowshower outside

Quite beautiful

M.A.R.

Show-off

CowperKettle

Well, a mild show off

I'm too tired to actually take pictures of the snow shower

Well, I'll try

kitty

20:05

hi

bye

M.A.R.

@kitty Hi

Java doub

20:54

Hi, anyone is onlne?

Damkerng T.

Hi, I drop in briefly every once in a while. @Javadoub

Java doub

@Damkern Hey Can you help me with a simple question?

Damkerng T.

Well, let's see the question first. Maybe I can, maybe I can't. :-)

Java doub

Ok

Why is "On my server", "On skype" instead of "In"?

Damkerng T.

Well, because!

Java doub

21:02

Always I have that question

Damkerng T.

:P

To me, the two ons are used a bit differently.

Java doub

I like the word "on", but I'm don't sure when I can use it

This is correct? "Add skills on your server"

Damkerng T.

@Javadoub Hmm... what's the context? It doesn't make much sense to me right now.

What do these skills do on the server? (scratching his head)

Java doub

Skills or abilities, I don't know which is correct, but I meaning about skills like powers, and I'm doing a post

That post has a picture

The picture contains "Add skills on your server"

Damkerng T.

Whose skills, BTW?

Java doub

21:06

Is like a title

Damkerng T.

Is it in an online game or something?

Java doub

Yea correct

I'm doing a plugin

Damkerng T.

Ahh

I'm not sure why you have to say "on your server", still. Just "add skills" (to your character) is already enough.

Java doub

The message is "Add the best abilities plugin on your server"

"Add the best abilities" is short

I guess

:P

Damkerng T.

Who is the message for? A developer or a player or someone else?

Sorry, I can't make sense of your context, so "on your server" still doesn't sound quite right to my ear.

Is "your server" a monster that can act based on its own skills/abilities or something?

Java doub

21:11

That is in a post

Some people can see that

Replace the word skill or abilities to power, I think with that word you can understand better

Damkerng T.

Hmm... are you trying to say something like, if you (the reader) use this plugin, your server will be more powerful?

Java doub

Yes!

Damkerng T.

Oh, then on is wrong.

Use to.

But you can say, deploy this plugin on your server.

If you use add, better say something like, add this plugin to your server.

Java doub

Nice!!, thank youu! :), then I use "to"

Damkerng T.

On may be possible, but it would go like, add this plugin to SOME MODULE/PROGRAM/ETC. on your server.

Java doub

21:16

Thanks I gotta go, bay

Damkerng T.

Have a nice day!

Java doub

Too, bay :=)

Damkerng T.

3

Q: Can I used the adjective 'haunted' on a person?

A person is seeing ghosts or is under attack by ghosts. Which one is correct? My father is haunted. My father is being haunted. Any alternatives?

word-usage

Not directly related to the question, but the question reminds me of this dialogue in Outcast (episode 4, A Wrath Unseen):

> Megan: "Is that why you're here? To mess with my head 'cause your f**ked up life is my fault?"
Donnie: "No, Megan. I'm here to sell tires. But actions do have consequences. Mine and yours."
Megan: "You think this haunts me. That's what you want to hear. That because of you, I'm broken. You arrogant prick. You're nothing to me. A bump in the road. Something I scraped off my shoe a long time ago. Tire salesman."
Donnie: "Then ask yourself why you're here, Megan, in my hotel room, all by yourself. You see, maybe I am more than a bump in the road to you. Maybe I do... haunt you."

(Background story: Donnie abused Megan when they were still young.)

Cardinal

21:32

Word of the night: phantasmagorical

3

( struggling to memorize the usage!)

Damkerng T.

Bah! 30 hits in COCA!

@Cardinal Usually, the more difficult (read "rarer") words are easier.

Java doub

Hey, I'm back for another doubt, when I can use "Don't have" and "Have not"?

Damkerng T.

What do you have in mind when thinking of don't have and have not?

Java doub

I don't know, to me that does not have difference :P

Example: "You don't have permission".

Damkerng T.

You wouldn't say You have not permission, would you? :-)

Java doub

21:44

I DON'T KNOOOOW :-C

What's the difference?

So, When I can use "haven't"?

Damkerng T.

Well, do you know what a helping verb or an auxiliary verb is?

Java doub

My English teacher said me that I have use "Have not" instead of "Don't have"

Honestly no, I'll find that

I'm reading this "http://study.com/academy/lesson/what-are-helping-verbs-definition-examples-qui‌z.html"

Cardinal

22:07

@DamkerngT. I think I understood your point. :-)

Damkerng T.

22:19

@Cardinal I hope you don't misunderstand my point, but I think you know how words are like, being multilingual.

Damkerng T.

22:52

1

A: the Viking King Harald Bluetooth -- why "the"?

The definite article "the" is used for titles that are not necessarily unique, to indicate you mean a specific person who held that title (which you will define). There were many Viking kings, but the article wants to focus on the particular king named Harald Bluetooth. To put it another way: ...

I'm not sure, but I don't think the reasoning in the answer is sound.

> Once they add "Viking" it makes it less specific, and while it would also have been fine to leave out the definite article, it sounds more natural to use "the" to return focus to the one (among many).

But ...

> They could have said:
Bluetooth is named for King Harald Bluetooth ...
which would have been perfectly fine, because there's only one of him.

So, Viking King Herald Bluetooth is less specific than King Herald Bluetooth?

scratching head...

Today's maxim: any attempt to explain anything in language will end up "It's because!"

Transcript for