Language Overflow - 2016-10-23 (page 1 of 2)

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yubraj sharma

01:47

@DamkerngT. I've edited my answer !!!

Please Check it out

Damkerng T.

02:05

@yubrajsharma Thank you! +1 for the effort!

CowperKettle

02:24

@Catija Aww! (0:

Sawasdee khrap

Man_From_India

Good morning Kettle :-) have a nice day.

@DamkerngT. hmmm it's terrible. I don't know why they upload such stuffs :(

Damkerng T.

Sawasdee khrap!

@Man_From_India I remember that there's a better channel on YouTube.

Man_From_India

Good morning DT.

@DamkerngT. which one?

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India I can't remember which one, but some ELL questions mention the channel.

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. ok. No problem.

CowperKettle

02:37

@Man_From_India *stuff

Namaste, Man ji

Man_From_India

After walking up I remember I have to parse that Dicken's sentence you posted yesterday (based on my time :P)

Damkerng T.

:D

Man_From_India

@CowperKettle I think there are many like that. Alas!

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India Ah, this teacher: youtube.com/watch?v=wwGQzvxORLo

(It wasn't exactly this video, but the teacher is the same :-)

Oh, I can remember now. It was her video on conditionals! :-)

(And then there were a few more, via ELL. :-)

Man_From_India

Will watch later.

Damkerng T.

02:43

I mean, she seems to follow grammar rules rather strictly, but I don't think she'll say anything like He and my father believes ...

Damkerng T.

02:54

I haven't followed the presidential candidates closely, but I wonder if they've addressed the issue 'robots may replace workforce soon' in their debates and speeches.

yubraj sharma

03:21

@DamkerngT. You're most wellcome !!!!

yubraj sharma

03:43

But the questioner is asking about native speaker's openion, I'm not a native

Jim Reynolds

03:56

Hmm . . . Teachers are learners, too. Maybe she can give something to her learners (I'm thinking in-person) that's as good as anything else they have access to. Glass mostly empty, or glass that at least provides a sip. Depending on ... what? My mood? I find I can sometimes be angry and critical at "teachers" who give incorrect info. Then sometimes I see that as hypocritical, because I teach, but my knowledge only goes so far, too.

Man_From_India

04:09

> But that Woodman and that Farmer, though they work unceasingly, work silently, and no one heard them as they went about with muffled tread: the rather, forasmuch as to entertain any suspicion that they were awake, was to be atheistical and traitorous.

@DamkerngT. the rather here is an older usage, meaning the former. (source OED)

But this part didn't make much sense forasmuch as to entertain any suspicion that they were awake.

I think with context it would make sense.

Jim Reynolds

Which English is it?

Man_From_India

It's a sentence written by Dickens.

Jim Reynolds

Are you sure about the rather?

I would guess closer to "instead"

Man_From_India

@JimReynolds It doesn't make much sense.

yubraj sharma

04:26

I think "But rather" is used to mean "instead".

Example :This isn't the question about" quite" but rather it's about" rather"

Man_From_India

But notice that the before rather.

hmmm that sentence is from A Tale of Two cities.

The passage where that sentence occurs in that novel is really hard to read. But without the help of any dictionary, what I got is that The woodman is Fate and The farmer is Death. forasmuch as to entertain any suspension that they were awake, to me, it means that as if they were alive, like a person.

yubraj sharma

04:44

An question about Greetings ell.stackexchange.com/questions/107265/…

Man_From_India

No I'm wrong about its meaning.

@DamkerngT. Here is a possible explanation.

forum.wordreference.com/threads/forasmuch-as.2959908

1 hour later…

Jim Reynolds

05:49

But that Woodman and that Farmer, though they work unceasingly, work silently, and no one heard them as they went about with muffled tread: the rather, forasmuch as to entertain any suspicion that they were awake, was to be atheistical and traitorous.

No one heard them. To the contrary, people (deliberately) did NOT hear them, dared not even imagine they existed, because such thoughts alone were crimes.

2

A clumsy, rough attempt to say something similar. Based on the link, and the link in the link!

@Man_From_India

(Rather than hearing them / to the extreme opposite of hearing them)

I'm guessing that the authorities and/or society may have believed that speaking of fate and death as existing independently of God's will, knowledge, power, was against religious thought, which was considered the only way possible to think by the king (the country) and the Pope, or religious powers.

If English, king or queen.

Man_From_India

Hmmm it's from the first chapter of A Tale of Two Cities. I find it too hard to read :(

Jim Reynolds

I found it very hard to read.

Man_From_India

Hmmm right.

Jim Reynolds

I think I stopped at 1/3rd through the book.

Man_From_India

06:04

Oh you started reading it?

Jim Reynolds

I would like to read a version with explanatory notes, I think.

Man_From_India

I don't know how people read it.

Jim Reynolds

I did love much of the language.

Experience, or high devotion.

Assistance.

It is smart, funny.

Man_From_India

I wonder how the writers of the explanatory notes get the language.

Jim Reynolds

How they learn to understand it?

Man_From_India

06:06

Yup

Jim Reynolds

Like any expert learns anything complex.

Let's find some way to read it together!

Man_From_India

Hmmm now that I know that you natives also find it hard, I don't feel that miserable any more :-)

Jim Reynolds

Yes. It's very complex if we don't have the relevant experience

Man_From_India

@JimReynolds i enjoyed the translation of that novel.

Jim Reynolds

Some people are naturally gifted and can learn more easily.

Translated into what?

Indianese

Man_From_India

06:10

Translated into Bengali

Jim Reynolds

Can you read the original and the translation side-by-side?

Translation for meaning, original to enjoy and think about the English?

Man_From_India

Of course, the translation is much smaller in size and lacks all the details that original text contains.

Jim Reynolds

Hmm.. Not a faithful translation then.

Man_From_India

But to be honest, trying to read the original text ruined the fun.

Jim Reynolds

Then don't read it.

Man_From_India

06:12

@JimReynolds must be, but the story is so superb.

Jim Reynolds

Is there a better translation available?

Oops. I'll be late for my class!

Man_From_India

Strangly, I don't have problem reading Sherlock Holmes. That is also Victorian English, I think.

@JimReynolds don't know. Will try to find out. Anyway see you soon.

2 hours later…

user62015

07:50

@DamkerngT. Please help me out. This is the boy (A) / who I think had won (B) / the gold medal in the dance competition.(C) / No error (D). Answer says D but I think it should be C as "had won" should be replaced by "won". What you suggest?

Anonymous

08:11

@user62015 We need some sort of context to decide between had won and won. The sentence has no context, so we can't decide.

user62015

09:08

@snailplane I understand but this is the complete question.

1 hour later…

Jim Reynolds

10:30

@user62015 There is no error. The best verb tense depends on the context and what the writer would want to communicate. What is your purpose for reviewing questions from this kind of test, can I ask?

user62015

10:41

Hi!

@JimReynolds There.

I told the teacher (A) / that the homework set for the day (B) / was much too heavy for us to complete. (C) / No error (D) It shows no error. But do you think "much too" is fine?

@Man_From_India Could you help me out with the last question?

Man_From_India

Yes no error.

I know these type of test is popular in India, but I feel these should be stopped. These are most of the time context dependent.

@user62015 Yes much too is fine.

You can almost get the same meaning without much, but adding it implies the emphasis to move up one more notch.

MUCH TOO

user62015

Don't you think that we can use too much instead of much too?

Man_From_India

@user62015 much too is an Adverb Phrase, that rightly modifies an adjective here.

too much is a determinative phrase and hence modifies a noun, or nominal.

user62015

10:57

Okay.

So heavy is an adjective here?

Man_From_India

@user62015 right.

user62015

Okay.

Thanks.

It was very helpful

I have a more question if you don't mind?

Man_From_India

Shoot it.

user62015

Some members of the committee (A) / were opposed to use (B) / the club members’ money to redecorate the meeting hall.(C) / No error (D)

Man_From_India

Thinking about too much it can also act as an AdvP in sentences like He has changed too much.

Wait a min. BRB

user62015

11:02

Sure.

Man_From_India

@user62015 No error

Oh sorry it must be using.

user62015

Please wait. Let me check

were opposed to using or were opposed using?

I understood. Were opposed to noun or gerund, right?

Man_From_India

11:20

were opposed to using is the correct form.

user62015

Okay.

Damkerng T.

12:11

I said, and now repeat that as a linguist, all speech is legitimate, fine and wonderful. No one has an RIGHT to criticize an individual's speech in terms of anything at all. That said, when one is answering questions from learners, one doesn't go round saying that what a linguist would consider marked as informal, spoken and non-standard speech is grammatically correct re the canon (not set by me, I would add). Any school, university or other "institution, etc. (press, media etc.) would say the same. Of course, in literature, everything is possible. — Lambie 2 days ago

That's a real problem in classrooms.

That's why Exam English is so different.

V.V.

Privet

Damkerng T.

Privet!

V.V.

12:28

Thanks for explanation about tuk-tuks. We had a text about means of transport in different countries in the textbook.

Damkerng T.

A-ha! -- It was my pleasure!

V.V.

I just wanted to know if the information is still relevant.

Damkerng T.

We also have this cute kind of vehicle: tricycle ~ ซาเล้ง (lit. "three-wheel"). :-)

> youtube.com/watch?v=K8lAWeQWHUo

It's disappearing, BTW. -- sad

V.V.

It's unusual because of three wheels

Damkerng T.

:D

It's easier to build, I think. :-)

V.V.

12:42

I had hard time explaining where different countries are situated

Damkerng T.

Google Maps would be helpful

I don't know where many countries are on the map, either!

V.V.

The boy is too young and they didn't have geography.

Damkerng T.

nods -- Maybe it's a good time to introduce him to a globe!

Damkerng T.

13:35

FWIW, @JimReynolds and everyone, besides direct speech and indirect speech (which are routinely taught in English classes as if that's all there is), we also have free indirect speech, which may explain why many speakers, uneducated or well-educated, use (b) in their spontaneous speech sometimes. — Damkerng T. 41 secs ago

Hopefully useful.

Man_From_India

14:29

This is from Chasing the Monsoon by Alexander Frater

> Fleetingly I felt the curious state of grace the rains always seemed to bestow, the way they washed away my sins - not literally, because I usually liked to stay indoors - made apocalyptic lapses, for example mentally undressing the plump Golightly sisters in church (their half-mad father captained the schooner Parsifal)) no big deal.

I have trouble with the bold part of the sentence.

Apocalyptic lapse - I think this means a huge mistake/fault.

But who is making these lapses?

It seems like the rains are doing it.

But if the rains do it, how it can undress mentally?

Strange. Isn't it?

Damkerng T.

14:42

@Man_From_India Umm, he did that in his mind, I think.

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. Logically it should be. But see the sentence. the way they (rains) washed away my sins and made apocalyptic lapses ...

Damkerng T.

It made such lapses no big deal.

In other words, less sinful, I think.

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. Thanks. I forgot about that no big deal at the end. It is clear now :-)

Damkerng T.

Yay!

This part is more interesting to me: not literally, because I usually liked to stay indoors

It makes me think what he really meant by "not literally".

Man_From_India

Rereading it the sentence is without all those loosely attached branches should read like this - The way they (rains) washed away my sins made apocalyptic lapses no big deal.

yubraj sharma

14:53

Hi !!!!

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. I guess it means wash away

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India Right!

Man_From_India

You see when one is out in the rain, one is getting washed away. Another way of looking at it is, he is not literally under the rain, but he is getting rid of his sins.

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India I was mentally interpreting that phrase, and I wasn't sure how I should translate it. Maybe "not quite".

yubraj sharma

@M.A.R. I've edited my question in ell.stackexchange.com/questions/107188/… which has been put on hold, by you too

Damkerng T.

14:56

Oh, I see! I think he linked "literally" to "felt" rather than "washed away"!

M.A.R.

I would love to get to work, but Colleen won't let me. She's right, because we need to focused on one post at a time. I know how many posts you have edited, but how much have we? Why is there a problem with a more active meta? The whole point of this place is to create more users like you, not less. I don't need to prove anything here. If you're sure that tags aren't worth the effort, you should write some meta and guide us in the right direction, not stop us when we want to do something. — M.A.R. 31 secs ago

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. Then it's perfect.

M.A.R.

I love a good drama, but not with J.R. :/

Damkerng T.

@yubrajsharma IMO, it's quite similar to the old question.

Man_From_India

But if that is the case, why did he choose to place not literally part there?

strange

yubraj sharma

14:59

@DamkerngT. May be similar but not the duplicate, and the question I've asked is different........

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India It's a bit odd either way, I suppose, because of that because!

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. Or is it this way: he mentally committed those sins. And hence it's not actual washing away if sins. That's why he used not literally.

But still the placement problem.

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India That would make more sense.

nods -- The because clause is kinda out of place, I think.

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. right.

At first I didn't notice it, until you painted out not literally part.

@yubrajsharma It's put on hold for the question lacks any further information. Please edit it.

yubraj sharma

@M.A.R. Do I have to add relevent tag my poasts?

M.A.R.

15:05

@yubrajsharma Yes. Please don't use the [grammar] tag.

Man_From_India

for example you could quote the rules you read in your book and name the name and author of the book.

And then when you asked if that made sense, you can add what you think that sentence mean.

M.A.R.

@Catija So it's Ben.

Man_From_India

You could support your reasoning with similar examples. etc etc.

@yubrajsharma "Do we use above sentences for doubting that someone seems as if married?"

yubraj sharma

@DamkerngT. I've edited my question and the text book was Reading between the lines

Man_From_India

Maybe. depends on context.

Damkerng T.

15:07

A funny expression when I think about it: in heels. I mean, I know in her shoes is common because she's literally in her shoes. But in heels? It looks more like "on heels" nowadays!

Man_From_India

But generally, to the speaker the right information of whether she is married is not present. So the speaker said it She seemed to have married.

yubraj sharma

Ok I'm going to add more information

Man_From_India

But you could mean the same thing with She seemed (to be) married.

Damkerng T.

She seemed to be married sounds more natural to me, FWIW.

yubraj sharma

I think there's same according to the rule

Man_From_India

15:09

@DamkerngT. :-)

@DamkerngT. me too. Because married implies a state.

yubraj sharma

So do I think , but they are said to be the same

Isn't "married" an adjective?

Damkerng T.

In this context? It most likely is an adjective.

Man_From_India

Notice - seemed to be starting*/*seemed to have started*/*seemed to start. are not same. But seemed to be married and seemed to have married are the same. I think the verbs that expresses states like married are used in both constructions to mean the same thing. But for aspectual verbs (or verbs that expresses events) like start it's different.

yubraj sharma

Use of being+adjective "Being married, I have got more responsibilities than before"

Man_From_India

(I have problem picking out aspectual verbs because the concept of aspectual verbs are not very clear to me) Anyone can help me.

yubraj you too can help me.

yubraj sharma

15:16

Use of Being+past particle---"Being helped by Ram,I didn't have much problem with repairing the watch."

Damkerng T.

@yubrajsharma much problem is problematic.

@Man_From_India I think if we're okay with She seemed to have married, we should be okay with She married, and that makes it tricky.

marry/married is tricky.

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. I think that rightly says it all.

yubraj sharma

@Man_From_India This is the first time I've heard this grammatical term and looked for it in en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_aspect

@DamkerngT. Use of Being+past particle---"Being helped by Ram,I didn't have problem with repairing the watch."

Is it ok ?

Damkerng T.

Problem is usually countable.

Man_From_India

@yubrajsharma nice. I tried to understand the concept. But couldn't. You might read it, and teach me.

yubraj sharma

15:27

Why "much problem" is problometic ?

Damkerng T.

I don't have much book. -- ungrammatical

yubraj sharma

What could I use there instead? Many problems?

Damkerng T.

Or a problem or trouble.

yubraj sharma

Use of Being+past particle---"Being helped by Ram,I didn't have many problem with repairing the watch."

Isn't it correct?

Damkerng T.

many problem doesn't work either!

yubraj sharma

15:30

Oh !!!!

Damkerng T.

We don't say I have many book, right?

yubraj sharma

Use of Being+past particle---"Being helped by Ram,I didn't have many problems with repairing the watch."

Damkerng T.

I think that's passable.

yubraj sharma

I have many books.

Damkerng T.

Using a problem or trouble would be more idiomatic, though.

yubraj sharma

15:32

Passable means correct?

Damkerng T.

Passable means, um, passable! :-)

yubraj sharma

But I want to emphasize that there were more problems repairing the watch

@Man_From_India I would have to read that and learn first .......

Damkerng T.

> Being helped by Ram, I was able to overcome a lot of problems while I was trying to repair the old watch.

Something like that?

Or ... a lot of problems I previously had.

yubraj sharma

Being helped is "being+past participle or being+adjective?

Damkerng T.

It depends, but why does it matter?

yubraj sharma

15:41

Here, being+past particle shows the reason, "Because"

@DamkerngT. Umm I see

Damkerng T.

FWIW, I don't like this kind of explanation much, but I understand them, the teachers and the authors who use it.

yubraj sharma

Depends ......What about in my example? Is it past particle?

Damkerng T.

> Ram came over and helped. I was finally able to repair my old watch.

Does this mean "I managed to do that because Ram helped"?

@yubrajsharma It's a past participle in form, yes.

yubraj sharma

Because I was told that "being+adjective" shows the reason, not being+past particle shows

Damkerng T.

Interesting. Where did you find that?

yubraj sharma

15:47

I think in my example it shows reason

But "being+past particle- being tired(also an adjective, isn't it ?)

Damkerng T.

Most likely, people will say that tired is an adjective, when asked.

yubraj sharma

I have asked this question in ELL but That wasn't well addressed or answered

Damkerng T.

What question?

yubraj sharma

ell.stackexchange.com/questions/107096/… This is the question I asked

Damkerng T.

The answer looks okay to me.

yubraj sharma

15:56

I don't understand it well

Damkerng T.

But you should read it casually, do your own homework while reading it, try to verify the answer yourself. -- Try not to read his answer as rules. BTW, his answers are usually insightful.

@yubrajsharma What part didn't you understand?

yubraj sharma

Because" being+past particle" is also showing a reason

Damkerng T.

So is "Being + adjective", according to the answer.

yubraj sharma

As in my example I provided about" reparing a watch"

"Being helped by Ram,I didn't have problems with repairing the watch."

It shows the reason

Helped -past particle

Man_From_India

@yubrajsharma You should leave a comment or two below the answer, whenever you don't understand it.

yubraj sharma

16:03

@Man_From_India ok

BTW means ?

Damkerng T.

By the way

Man_From_India

you should use google more :-)

Damkerng T.

:D

yubraj sharma

Being imployed in teaching at a school, I hardly manage time for painting.

Being teased, I hit him with a stick.

Being called by mother from home, I went to meet her.

Man_From_India

Dude, you seem to be obsessed with this stuff. For the time being leave it for some days or maybe for some months. And read real English in this period. Real English means English daily/magazines. Novels, articles whatever interest you. And then come back to this topic. Ask question here. I am sure, you can ask better question then, not only that, I bet you can convey your confusions more clearly.

You know we are sometimes unable to understand your problems. And some problems have no definite answer, you just have to accept it.

yubraj sharma

16:09

They all show the reasons, are they" being+adjective"?

I was trying to discuss about it. Isn't it fair to discuss here in Language roon ?

Damkerng T.

[ They all show the reasons, are they" being+adjective"? ] How did you get that conclusion?

Man_From_India

And please try to answer questions. I never saw you write your source of rules, despite repeatedly asked. Some msg back, DT also asked again. Please try to do it. Knowing your source wont help most of the times, but still it's a good practice to reply :-) (don't mind, just felt like telling you this)

yubraj sharma

@DamkerngT. I'm not sure that they all show the reason.I told what I would have thought

I'm not sure, but It would seem they show the reasons....what would you suggest me ?

Damkerng T.

You're trying to read answers like rules. IMO, it's not productive.

What would I suggest? Hmm... Try to "feel" the language! :-)

Man_From_India

@yubrajsharma These BBC websites are good for beginners.

learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/en/quick-grammar/…

bbc.co.uk/learningenglish/english/course/intermediate/unit-27/…

yubraj sharma

16:19

Ummm.....It seems as if the language is more abou feelings than grammar

Man_From_India

bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/learnit/…

Damkerng T.

@yubrajsharma Exactly!

That's what sets human languages from programming languages.

yubraj sharma

@@DamkerngT. So, Again , were they adjective or past particle or both ?

It would seem they are "past particle" working like adjective

Damkerng T.

I remember I asked you earlier, why does it matter? :-)

I don't mean to say that it's not useful at all, but knowing why you want to know is important, too, I think.

@yubrajsharma Suppose that you can't distinguish them, why does it matter?

yubraj sharma

It matters because "It would be easier for me to understand what "Being+.....structure actually is

Damkerng T.

16:26

Hmm.

Suppose that I say I don't think it matters to understand this construction. What would you say? :-)

M.A.R.

@yubrajsharma If you want to understand it, you should use it.

Knowing a couple of badass grammar points won't gain you understanding.

Not the understanding you're looking for.

yubraj sharma

@M.A.R. yes !!! so I'm using here

M.A.R.

It's like trying to wear clothes by tagging them, Yubraj.

You only wear clothes by wearing clothes.

Naming clothes or their size won't help you.

yubraj sharma

@MAR pardon please!

M.A.R.

It would just help you not pick some clothes too small or too large.

@yubrajsharma Why? What did you break? :)

@Dam we're in dire need of a word of the day.

yubraj sharma

16:30

@M.A.R. ok I got it

Damkerng T.

19 hours ago, by Damkerng T.

Word of the Day: abjuration

M.A.R.

That's expiring.

Damkerng T.

Bah!

M.A.R.

19 hours ago will be yesterday in five hours or less.

Damkerng T.

sniff, sniff...

M.A.R.

16:32

It's the word that should be sniffing

The poster will be the same.

yubraj sharma

@M.A.R. do you mean "I would bette not to understand the grammaticsl term, but to understand them(sentences) by not even knowing the grammatical terms or structures"

M.A.R.

Oh, robot sniff sound is terrifying. Stop that

Damkerng T.

:-)

Word of the Day: muss

2

M.A.R.

@yubrajsharma I'm not prohibiting you from learning grammar. But don't expect to understand things fully just by knowing grammar. Language is something that should be implanted on your brain, and grammar won't help much with that.

Man_From_India

Just now ordered this. Got it in a very low price.

flipkart.com/a-suitable-boy/p/…

yubraj sharma

16:35

@M.A.R. Thank you for your great advice

Man_From_India

A Suitable Boy is a novel by Vikram Seth, published in 1993. At 1,349 pages (1,488 pages softcover) and 591,552 words, the book is one of the longest novels ever published in a single volume in the English language. A sequel, to be called A Suitable Girl, is due for publication in 2017. == Plot summary == A Suitable Boy is set in a newly post-independence, post-partition India. The novel follows the story of four families over a period of 18 months, and centres on Mrs. Rupa Mehra's efforts to arrange the marriage of her younger daughter, Lata, to a "suitable boy". Lata is a 19-year-old university...

M.A.R.

@DamkerngT. Muss means mess. So Mussi is our next prominent soccer player.

At least according to Americans

Damkerng T.

@M.A.R. Oh, it will be something you'd want to do on a date. :-)

Man_From_India

But right now I'm reading Chasing the Monsoon.

Damkerng T.

I don't know Mussi, BTW.

@Man_From_India Yay!

M.A.R.

16:38

@DamkerngT. Dates are yummy

Damkerng T.

That's true!

yubraj sharma

One more question ......How far "grammar" is important to understand" English Literature"?

Damkerng T.

@yubrajsharma English lit. is very wide.

What kind of lit. do you have in mind?

Man_From_India

Ask a native, most of them don't know the grammar at all. But as a non native, I would say a little bit of grammar is needed for getting started.

M.A.R.

@yubrajsharma Ideally, you shouldn't NEED grammar for anything. How does a native speaker learn English as a newborn baby named Ben that's so cute? Grammar just reinforces things.

I dropped a 'rin'

Man_From_India

16:41

Not that high level grammar is needed, basic grammar is okay. Patter and meaning is all that is more needed.

yubraj sharma

I am talking about 'poetry', Essays and novels etc

M.A.R.

@yubrajsharma Then grammar is almost of no use

Damkerng T.

Poems and lyrics usually don't follow the standard grammar.

But heavy proses do.

M.A.R.

@Man_From_India Grammar is indeed a nice boost in the beginning, but it becomes a hindrance as you go on.

Man_From_India

@M.A.R. There is a cartoon series named Ben Ten. for sometimes it was aired on Cartoon Network here :-)

@M.A.R. Generally true. When in office I never think of grammar, but use English.

yubraj sharma

16:43

Now I came to know that I'm more stuck in grammar than necessary

M.A.R.

@Man_From_India It shouldn't, but the grammar they teach is so crappy and so full of arbitrary distinctions about phenomenon so prone to change, it's annoying.

@yubrajsharma Thank you for helping us help you realize this

Damkerng T.

@yubrajsharma Probably a bit, but grammar can help polish your writing.

yubraj sharma

I will now try to write more and won't care much about grammar

M.A.R.

For some reason some learners are stubbornly sticking to idiotic terminology that has gone extinct since Fowler.

I just typed Fowler as Flower.

Man_From_India

I don't think DT, too much grammar spoils your creative writing, IMO.

Damkerng T.

16:44

Flower must flow well!

M.A.R.

@Man_From_India Mhm. When you think about how to do something way more than actually doing it, it's harmful.

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India Maybe it was because I was thinking of academic writing. :-)

yubraj sharma

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge with me. It was kind of you to help me

M.A.R.

No probs

Damkerng T.

I think @M.A.R. finally cracked it. :-)

Man_From_India

16:47

:D

yubraj sharma

I mean I will try to write more articles...including my own words and style

M.A.R.

Cracked what? My laptop screen?

user image

Damkerng T.

@M.A.R. It. :-)

Man_From_India

It's like cracking the hard outer shell of nuts :P

yubraj sharma

Who is this person?

M.A.R.

16:48

@yubrajsharma You can chat a lot here too. Being in the company of other learners is really helpful.

Damkerng T.

Doctor House. :-)

M.A.R.

I weeded out all the inaccuracies I picked up while learning in isolation.

yubraj sharma

Moving eyes side to side ......how to say ?

M.A.R.

@yubrajsharma He just looks worried.

That's what my intention was by posting the GIF.

yubraj sharma

@M.A.R. I thought It was you !!!!!!

Time to go.....I have learned a lot today,BTW, bye all ....see you again ......GOOD NIGHT

Damkerng T.

16:53

Sleep tight!

M.A.R.

Sleep tight!

Damkerng T.

@yubrajsharma I just noticed. You said "write" more. I think you'd better "read" more if your goal is English literature.

An outline of the canon: en.wikiversity.org/wiki/English_literary_canon

Oh, Jane Austen!

An opening sentence (in one of her books) could give you a headache:

> Sir Walter Elliot, of Kellynch Hall, in Somersetshire, was a man who, for his own amusement, never took up any book but the Baronetage; there he found occupation for an idle hour, and consolation in a distressed one; there his faculties were roused into admiration and respect, by contemplating the limited remnant of the earliest patents; there any unwelcome sensations, arising from domestic affairs changed naturally into pity and contempt as he turned over the almost endless creations of the last century; and there, if every other leaf were powerless, he could read his own history with an…

(Yes, that's one sentence!)

there any unwelcome sensations, arising from domestic affairs changed naturally into pity and contempt as he turned over the almost endless creations of the last century -- Does that mean the unwelcome sensations turned into enjoyment as he scorned the more recent Barons and their families?

V.V.

17:32

Got a "yearling " badge here,wow!

yubraj sharma

Question in ell.stackexchange.com/questions/107188/… has been edited with source

I've read that book in intermediate level.....

Damkerng T.

@V.V. Yay!

M.A.R.

@V.V. \o/

@yubrajsharma here, have a reopen vote

yubraj sharma

I did it already

CowperKettle

17:50

user image

View on Yekaterinburg from a hill near Lake Iset

user image

@V.V. congrats!

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