Language Overflow

Færd

19:01

> - Have you a light?
> - No, I haven't one.

Do you detect anything ungrammatical about this exchange?

Damkerng T.

I think it's fine in BrE, perhaps.

Not sure if they call it a "light" as well.

Færd

@DamkerngT. Also in AmE, methinks. (aside from the light/lighter thing)

But there's this test book that says it's wrong.

Damkerng T.

I read this light as "lighter", FWIW.

Færd

There are four choices, among which "No, I haven't got one" and the above.

Damkerng T.

The book aims at a specific dialect, maybe.

Færd

19:08

It says only "I haven't got one" is possible.

@DamkerngT. It's by Swan (and another person).

Damkerng T.

Interesting!

Færd

But I think they're wrong! Just search Google Books for "haven't one" or "have not one"; you'll get tons of examples.

> I am very fond of dogs, too, but even so I hope you haven't one!
> "Nevertheless, you must express a preference." "Well, I haven't one, I hate them all,"

Anonymous

@Færd Yes.

Færd

@snailplane Wow, good! What?

Damkerng T.

Maybe it's something people may really use but considered incorrect. I don't know.

She don't want it is fine, too, in some songs.

Anonymous

19:13

@Færd It would have to be I don't have one or I haven't got one in AmE.

Anonymous

My Scottish friend doesn't really like it either, but his dialect has a different have. He's comfortable with just No, I haven't, which wouldn't work in my dialect.

Anonymous

But I think there's a dialect difference there, with I haven't one.

Færd

Hmm. Thanks.

@snailplane You mean in some dialects it is possible?

Damkerng T.

I'm sure I've seen a TEFL write I've something before, but maybe it's just something (some) people type. (It's hard to imagine someone really say I've a car or anything like that.)

Anonymous

@Færd Um, maybe :-)

Anonymous

19:17

You should find another BrE speaker. My informant's responses aren't conclusive.

Færd

And I can't fit this datum in a bigger picture. What general rule can decide this matter?

Anonymous

But it would be ungrammatical in AmE.

Færd

@snailplane Ah, OK.

M.A.R.

Never change, guys. Since the time I said we should have one WOTT the star board is filled with WOTT's posted at random times of the day, hehe.

Anonymous

Well, in AmE, possessive have is not an auxiliary and can't take the -n't inflectional ending.

Anonymous

19:18

So we need do-support, and end up with I don't have one.

Damkerng T.

@M.A.R. :D

M.A.R.

@snailplane "The only time snail is umming is when she doesn't mean it." -- Carl Linnaeus

Damkerng T.

PEU 237.3, 237.8, maybe. :-)

Anonymous

The syntax of possession is surprisingly complicated.

Færd

@snailplane There are 30 "I/you/we haven't time"s in COCA.

Anonymous

19:22

There's some interesting data in Biber et al 1999.

Anonymous

@Færd By BrE speakers?

Færd

:)

Not all of them, I imagine.

Anonymous

Really? My guess would be all of them.

Anonymous

I see 19 results.

Damkerng T.

It sounds very weird to me. I think my have is more like in American English.

M.A.R.

19:24

Generally, I'm American in Englishing.

Færd

I haven't time = 17, we = 9, you = 4.

Anonymous

Odd. Why do I get 15, 2, and 2?

Damkerng T.

@M.A.R. Mine is just American Englishish. :-)

Færd

@snailplane Oops, sorry. You're right.

Anonymous

Anyway, if they aren't BrE speakers, they're probably emulating BrE speech or temporarily influenced by it in some way.

Anonymous

19:25

It's not grammatical in AmE.

Anonymous

If I spend enough time talking to BrE speakers, I naturally use some BrE myself.

Færd

My cross-dialect ear is deceiving me perhaps then.

Anonymous

Likewise, if I spend enough time talking to non-native speakers, I end up using some non-native sounding English.

Anonymous

Not on purpose, it just happens.

Anonymous

Communication accommodation theory

Communication accommodation theory (CAT) is a theory of communication developed by Howard Giles. It argues that, "When people interact they adjust their speech, their vocal patterns and their gestures, to accommodate to others." It explores the various reasons why individuals emphasize or minimize the social differences between themselves and their interlocutors through verbal and nonverbal communication. This theory is concerned with the links between language, context, and identity. It focuses on both the intergroup and interpersonal factors that lead to accommodation, as well as the ways that...

Anonymous

19:27

Usually just called "accommodation".

M.A.R.

@snailplane Mhm. A couple of months ago I was too exposed to 'urgant homewerk halp kthxbye' language and I felt my English was degrading to chicken level

@snailplane CAT theory ʕ ⊃･ ◡ ･ ʔ⊃︵┻━┻

Anonymous

にゃ～

Damkerng T.

meow

M.A.R.

@Snail you a cat person or dog person?

Anonymous

Cat.

Anonymous

19:29

I'm afraid of dogs.

Anonymous

Animals love me, though :-)

Færd

@DamkerngT. Third Ed.? I didn't find anything there that would rule out I haven't one.

And I'm not convinced that it's not correct in BrE. Maybe I should ask on the main site.

Damkerng T.

> In American English and modern British English, questions and negatives are commonly formed with do.

Maybe they shifted "commonly" to "always" in the test.

Færd

scratches head

Damkerng T.

Yes, 3rd ed.

Færd

19:33

rubs eyes

Damkerng T.

:D

Færd

Oh, 273.3.

That explains it I guess. Thanks!

M.A.R.

Meanwhile, in meta.chem

9

Q: Policy on AMIRITE questions

Intro Consider two likely scenarios: Q: How many grams of $\ce{O2}$ are there in one mole of oxygen gas? I know that O is 16, so it should be 16 grams, AMIRITE? Please halp ugrant kthxbye Q: How many grams of $\ce{O2}$ are there in one mole of oxygen gas? I know that O is 16...

Damkerng T.

@Færd Yay! My pleasure!

M.A.R.

I wish I wrote it this way on meta.ELL.

But I guess meta.ELL folks can't stand a joke.

Or a couple of jokes

Damkerng T.

19:37

Huh? Really?!

Ugh! The answer over there uses a nuke!

BTW, I still can't tell Isla Fisher and Amy Adams apart sometimes! (They do not only look alike, but they also sound alike!)

Færd

@snailplane You're making a big sacrifice here then!

Damkerng T.

+1

Anonymous

@Færd It's not like I lose my ability to speak native-like English! :-)

Færd

Well, in the long run ... :P

Anonymous

That's not really how accommodation works, I think.

Færd

19:50

I'm just kidding. I know what you mean.

I appreciate your time anyway.

Damkerng T.

Oops I let the cow in...

►

"She just lets you do anything to her, don't she?"

:-)

It's a cute video, no matter what, BTW! :-)

Anonymous

@Færd :-) I like chatting

Damkerng T.

20:09

> In spoken English it's not common to directly quote, word-for-word, what someone says or should say to someone else. The more natural way to express this is to transform the quote to the third-person and (implicitly) remove the quotations marks. Naturally you need to transform all the other pronouns to match the subject:
Could you ask him, "Did you receive the present I sent you on your birthday?"
Could you ask him did he receive the present I sent him on his birthday.

> ell.stackexchange.com/a/107139/3281

An interesting assertion.

Færd

@DamkerngT. Just an observation, not to make a statement: goo.gl/YnX08R .

The only point that I'm going to make right now is that I'm not convinced either way.

Good night to all. :)

Damkerng T.

One of the biggest problems with Google Books is its US/UK category is not quite reliable, if I'm not mistaken.

Oh, browsing through these examples is quite interesting!

> 'Sorry, I haven't a clue. And it's no point me giving you her mobile number. Her phone doesn't work anywhere on the islands.'

It's no point me giving you her mobile number -- Hmm...

Damkerng T.

21:26

1

Q: Why is present perfect used instead of past tense in this sentence?

On a website I read this dialogue: I'm looking for a cheap virtual credit (Master/Visa) card for paying online. I have been asked for a scanned copy of my credit card on first purchase by Aliexpress. This might cause a problem if you use virtual card. https://www.lowendtalk.com/d...

past-tense present-perfect

Strange. Everyone seems to be okay with the sentence.

> I have been asked for a scanned copy of my credit card on first purchase by Aliexpress.

I don't think the experiential perfect goes with on first purchase very well.

Damkerng T.

22:44

Word of the Day (Dawn Edition): fortuitous

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