Language Overflow

Damkerng T.

00:14

@snailplane It's interesting that some people (according to the AHD panel) are okay with look to in the meaning of look forward to.

> Usage Note: When followed by an infinitive, look often means "expect" or "hope," as in The executives look to increase sales once the economy improves or I'm looking to sell my car in July. In our 1997 survey, the Usage Panel was divided almost evenly on this usage, with 52 percent of the Panelists finding it acceptable and 48 percent rejecting it. In 2008, 55 percent rejected it, suggesting that resistance is not eroding, at least not for use in more formal contexts. The usage has an informal flavor and is popular among sports writers: The Spartans are looking to improve their offensive …

Which makes me think, perhaps forward is not really part of it.

Ah, wait! It's look to sell, not look to selling!

(Hint 1 is disputed!)

Anonymous

00:37

@DamkerngT. Oh, but look to sell means something different from look forward to selling. And anyway, they're two different phrases.

Damkerng T.

They sound really, really close to each other to me.

Man_From_India

@snailplane Do you mean forward is transitive?

@DamkerngT. yes it might not be a phrasal verb. I agree, because it doesn't mean much outside the constituents' literal meaning.

Anonymous

00:52

They don't sound like they have the same meaning to me.

Anonymous

One means you want/hope to do something, the other means you think something will be enjoyable.

Man_From_India

Hmmm that's also right.

But if forward is transitive, my analysis is wrong there.

Damkerng T.

@snailplane But isn't a thing that we think enjoyable to which we look forward is the thing that we're waiting and hoping to happen?

(FWIW, this may be partially because of its equivalent in my first language: look forward to something lit. ~ "up" my face my eyes waiting for something. :-)

Man_From_India

After SnailP's analysis in the last comment, I started to think that forward is transitive, and the verb look takes only one complement, a PP. Head forward

Anonymous

01:25

@DamkerngT. I don't really see a connection between the two phrases.

Anonymous

It wouldn't have occurred to me to compare the two until you mentioned them both.

Anonymous

I might say someone is looking to sell their bike, but might not be looking forward to it. They might just need the money.

Anonymous

Or you might be looking forward to your vacation, but not looking to take a vacation, because the arrangements have already been made and it's a settled matter.

Damkerng T.

nods -- They aren't exactly the same, just very close to me. Maybe like green and blue or blue and violet. :-)

Man_From_India

02:00

@snailplane synthetically i think forward can take a complement or it can't. But judging from the semantic point of view in this phrase it looks like forward takes a PP as complement.

I'll edit my answer.

Man_From_India

03:02

@snailplane I was going to edit my answer, writing that forward is transitive. But then noticed that we can reverse the order look to getting a good job forward. Though it's a strange construction, it's technically right. We can say we look forward, and stop the sentence there as well. I don't think here it's transitive.

similarly in look up above the sky, the preposition up is an intransitive Preposition, and another PP is above the sky. Though here we can't reverse the order.

Anonymous

@Man_From_India No, you can't say that. It doesn't appear to mean anything.

Anonymous

I don't think I would understand it was an attempt at using look forward to unless you told me.

Man_From_India

But is forward really transitive?

Anonymous

03:23

Well, you can debate that.

Man_From_India

@snailplane No one seems to be around, except you :-)

Anonymous

@Man_From_India Well, parsing verb–preposition idioms is somewhat controversial.

Anonymous

Some linguists maintain that so-called "phrasal verbs" do form constituents, and others maintain that they do not.

Man_From_India

@snailplane Pullum K uses the term Verbal idiom

But here look forward to, I am also in doubt to call it an idiom. The meaning is deductible from the literal meaning of each constituents.

Anonymous

No, it's not.

Anonymous

03:29

There is nothing in the literal meaning of look, forward, or to that tells you the meaning 'await eagerly'.

Anonymous

And you can't substitute or remove any of the pieces of the idiom and preserve the meaning the rest provide, because the meaning is assigned to the non-constituent string look forward to as a whole.

Anonymous

@Man_From_India H&P say that forward is intransitive and the verb takes two PP complements.

Anonymous

I just found it on p.287.

Man_From_India

@snailplane hmm that's correct. Now I see it.

Anonymous

Wow, the relative clause example sounds ungrammatical to me.

Anonymous

03:33

Being able to insert an adverb is a good point, though.

Anonymous

Okay, I'll go along with their analysis :-)

Man_From_India

@snailplane It seems fine to me.

Anonymous

@Man_From_India Well, it's just my intuitive judgment. I reject that sentence as ungrammatical.

Man_From_India

@snailplane head + complement. can't we add anything between the head and its complement?

Anonymous

You're free to ignore that data point if you like :-)

Man_From_India

03:36

@snailplane oh ok :-)

Anonymous

@Man_From_India How often have you seen an adverb placed between a preposition and its complement?

Man_From_India

@snailplane nods it's rare. But in case of verb + complement, I think we can add an adverb.

Anonymous

But in this case, the adverb that is inserted seems to be semantically linked to the verb rather than to the supposed PP in which it would appear.

Anonymous

So it does feel like that's evidence that forward and to X are both separate complements of the verb.

Anonymous

The adverb seems to be in the verb phrase between those two complements, rather than being part of one big complement.

Anonymous

03:38

So after I read that I figured, H&P are probably right :-)

Anonymous

Forward must not be transitive.

Man_From_India

@snailplane nods and partly because of the reason we can say that when we can add an adverb between a preposition and another constituent coming after that preposition, that preposition is not transitive. That is informative. Thanks.

Anonymous

H&P don't analyze phrasal verbs as constituents.

Anonymous

John Lawler does.

Man_From_India

In ASIEG they used the term verbal idiom.

CowperKettle

03:47

1

A: "Improve the disease outcomes" vs. "improve disease outcomes" (article usage)

One can hardly take the English of this press release (sans hyphen) as indicative of good English. Consider its Today, psoriasis is considered an incurable disorder, however the newest therapies allow to improve remission rate and extend its duration. Do you see *the newest therapies ...

Full of acerb

Man_From_India

Good morning Kettle.

CowperKettle

Morning, Man ji!

Man_From_India

@CowperKettle How is your work going?

CowperKettle

@Man_From_India I've just woken up, so it will resume going in 30 minutes

I will take lesser amounts for translation

How is your life going?

Man_From_India

@CowperKettle It's going fine. Thanks.

CowperKettle

03:53

(0:

\o, Snails!

BBL

CowperKettle

04:11

Isn't press-release ever used with the hyphen?

I've been making this mistake many, many times then

Man_From_India

04:40

It seems like it was in use in the past, well in past. And then it became obsolete. However, you can find some rare usage in current writing/speaking. But that is very rare. — Man_From_India 2 mins ago

The adverb - halfly.

CowperKettle

05:08

> The variable domains of the antibody are highlighted with green, the llama domains are highlighted with yellow, and the linker is highlighted with gray.

Is this the conventional turn of phrase, "highlighted with"?

> The CDRs (complementarity determining regions), encoded using the Chothia numbering scheme, are in bold.

"encoded" or "written down"?

6

A: "when" or "after" + "we had recently started dating"?

The first sentence is correct, but might be clearer if you just rearranged to order of the phrases: we had recently started dating when I took my girlfriend to Niagara Falls. recently means 'not long ago' - it is backward-looking. after means a 'following in time' - it s forward-looking. ...

My bounty went there

CowperKettle

06:16

> It was shown that the presence of afucosylated oligosaccharides in immunoglobulins can increase antibody-dependent cell-mediated cytotoxicity (T Shantha Raju, 2008).

Which is better: "it was shown" or "it has been shown"?

V.V.

06:26

Shown?

Pres Perfect.

0

Q: "So have I" interlocutor answer meaning "me too" or "me not" question in perfect continuous tenses

A) Sentence: "Mary has been reading book since morning" Positive Answer: 1 -"So have I"; 2 -"I have been too"; 3 -"Me too" Can we answer this way: 4 -"So have been I."? How can I answer if I don't do the same action? i.e. to express my disagreement... Sentence: "Mary has been reading book ...

negative-inversion

It will be closed.

Nobody understands it.

Better "proved"

Imho

CowperKettle

Thanks, VV!

V.V.