Language Overflow

Lawrence

00:16

@DamkerngT. How's that going?

@CowperKettle It's probably caused by the intention to state the negative rather than to assert the positive. When the positive itself is negative (so to speak), you can end up with phrasing that takes more effort to parse. But cancelling the two negations can produce too strong a statement - they might not have wanted something (a negative something, like "people not to believe him"), but that doesn't mean they wanted its opposite.

In this case, cancelling the two negatives (to get He kept the story secret because he wanted people to believe him) might not be true - he might have simply not wanted to give the wrong impression, without caring about whether others thought it was true.

@PichiWuana Try writing a sentence with one of them, then see if using the other term fits. E.g. "When the coach calls out, they bounce their basketballs." vs "When the coach calls out, they bounce off their basketballs." Can you see the difference?

Færd

03:53

Could it be offensive to refer to an English person as a Brit?

user62015

05:11

Hi!

(A) No boy in the class / (B) is so tall / (C) as Raju. / (D) no error @DamkerngT. @JimReynolds @V.V. I know the answer ((A) No other boy in the class / (B) is so tall / (C) as Raju. / (D) no error) I just want to know can we write it this way: (A) No other boys in the class / (B) is so tall / (C) as Raju. / (D) no error

CowperKettle

05:27

Good morning all!

I wonder if there is a resource for finding out when this or that poem was written or first published. I want to know when Charles Lamb wrote Thoughtless Cruelty, say.

@Færd Depends on the context, but to my ear "Brit" sounds proud

It has such a curt, strong feel to it

Good morning, Snails!

CowperKettle

05:51

Cardinal

06:21

@CowperKettle :-)

CowperKettle

Yes, it is a bleak Wednesday morning. There is no sun in the sky, I earned the Tumbleweed badge, and Snails did not say good morning.

I'll go and drown myself in some translation.

Hi, Cardinal!

Lawrence

06:48

@CowperKettle Um, congratulations?

@CowperKettle The sun is always in the sky // even midst the dismal cry. // Whence the snail's train rumbling by // brightens Kettle, by and by.

Have a nice day. :)

CowperKettle

07:34

Thank you for brightening my day
With this inspiring little lay *

* lay: A ballad or sung poem; a short poem or narrative, usually intended to be sung.

Morning, V.V.!

V.V.

@user62015 you cannot.

Morning, brother Kettle!

I like your poem

Mrs. Jack. What’s the latest bulletin, Teddy? Know where we are yet?
Lord Teddy. Not to a few inches, no.

CowperKettle

Is this a joke?

V.V.

What's the meaning of the last sentence with inches?---Not the slightest idea?@DamkerngT.?

CowperKettle

I found the source

sw-translations.ucoz.ru/forum/9-528-1

V.V.

It's from Wodehouse, my current translation.

Struggling with idioms and pun.

CowperKettle

07:49

nods

0

Q: What does this -ing phrase refer to: "IL17A is produced by Th17 cells, constituting a subtype of T-helper cells"

IL17A is produced mainly by activated Th17 cells, constituting a separate subtype of T-helper cells (CD4 +). Can the participial phrase "constituting a separate subtype of T-helper cells (CD4 +)" refer to "Th17 cells", or does it refer to "IL17A" only? In other words, is the following remod...

participle-phrase

@V.V. Maybe the meaning is "I know our current position, but very approximately".

"I do not know it to a few inches, but rather to a few yards or to a few miles"

> ИЛ17А продуцируется в основном активированными Th17 клетками, представляющими собой обособленный подтип Т хелперов (CD4+)

> IL17A is mainly produced by activated Th17 cells, constituting a separate subtype of T-helper cells (CD4 +) (I think this is a bad translation)

Damkerng T.

@V.V. I think so. It sounds like a goofy dialogue!

@CowperKettle That makes sense, too, though it doesn't sound so in the dialogue.

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. Hm. So "not to a few inches" has the usual meaning "approximately", but in that context it has the ironic meaning "I've got no idea!"

Damkerng T.

I think that's likely.

Somehow the dialogue makes me think of The Cabbages of Doom! :-)

CowperKettle

(0:

Basically my position is that the "constituting" phrase refers only to the subject (IL17A).

Damkerng T.

08:04

> To add insult to injury*, he had spent ten hours in a search that was just as fruitless - and, more importantly, vegetableless - as Cyril’s. (*Adding insult to injury was a favourite pastime of Frankie’s, though not as fun as adding injury to insult. Or, for that matter, injury to injury.)

(How 'bout that? :P)

CowperKettle

(0:

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle looking

CowperKettle

That's quite funny!

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Hehe!

CowperKettle

But Wodehouse left me with a feeling of "a lot of puns, too little of plot"

I liked the Jeves and Woster (?) series on the TV though

Too lazy to look up the names

Damkerng T.

08:08

@CowperKettle I think that's a sensible way to read that sentence.

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. I wonder if there's a "proof" of my opinion in Quirk et al or in CGEL

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Not sure if CGEL has this explicitly, but I think Pullum has made a post at Language Log.

V.V.

Thank you guys. Now I have two ideas instead of one.

Damkerng T.

:D

CowperKettle

> Я валяюсь на траве,
Сто фантазий в голове.
Помечтай со мною вместе,
Будет их не сто, а… двести.

A poem excerpt fit for the occasion

Damkerng T.

08:15

@V.V. I reread the whole dialogue again. This time it gave me an idea that Lord Teddy didn't want to lie, so he used "Not to a yard or two" and "Not to a few inches" to hide his "not knowing".

Technically, he could claim that he didn't lie.

Literally, it means something like what CowperKettle suggested.

(It implies I know somewhat, but not as precisely as about a yard or two or a few inches.)

(But literally, it says "I don't know as precisely as a yard or two or a few inches" which doesn't exclude "I don't know where we are at all!")

@CowperKettle This may be helpful: languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2790

CowperKettle

It conjures up an image of a bumbling aeronaut who in vain tries to hide his blunder

@DamkerngT. Thank you!

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle nods

@CowperKettle No problem!

V.V.

Good, in fact,I will need both. Thank you.

Anonymous

@CowperKettle Proof of what exactly?

Anonymous

I tried reading the chat log, but I got a little confused.

Damkerng T.

08:22

@Lawrence It was going pretty long. :P

CowperKettle

@snailplane Hi! Proof of that This translation is wrong, because the ing-phrase does not refer to the nearest noun phrase.

Deo

Good morning everyone!

Damkerng T.

@user62015 You shouldn't use ... so tall as Raju. Better use ... as tall as Raju.

@Deo Good morning!

I wonder how often these tests confuse the learners.

CowperKettle

Morning, Deo!

Damkerng T.

Where else would a learner run into No one is *so tall as Ruju except in this kind of test/exercise?!

CowperKettle

08:29

> Я валяюсь на траве,
Сто фантазий в голове.
Помечтай со мною вместе,
Будет их не сто, а… двести.
I've been sitting in the grass,
Hundred thoughts my mind have passed
Join my daydream on this hubble
And we'll make this number double

Damkerng T.

By practicing English with these exercises, two things may happen: a) the learner may get some sort of tip or confirmation that some patterns are invalid in English, and b) the learner has to think of the error patterns (because they are there in the questions) and chances are they will misremember which pattern is correct.

CowperKettle

A rough translation of the Russian poem excerpt

Deo

Is using "qute a few" in context "there are qute a few people who enjoy it that way" works to say "there are lagre enough number of people..."?

@CowperKettle that's pretty good!

I assume you did it yourself just now?

CowperKettle

@Deo Thank you!

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle I suppose the number has already doubled! :D

@Deo Quite a few people sounds a bit more natural to me.

CowperKettle

08:31

@DamkerngT. I quoted the poem when V.V. said that we doubled the number of her ideas regarding that part

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Ahh... I see! :D

Deo

@DamkerngT. Yeah, I was going to use it that way, but then remembered about difference between american "quite good" and british "quite good", and decided to double check

CowperKettle

Yunna Morits

Yunna Petrovna Morits (Moritz) (Russian: Ю́нна Петро́вна Мо́риц; born June 2, 1937), is a Soviet and Russian poet and activist. == Biography == She was born in Kiev, USSR (present day Ukraine) in a Jewish family. Her father Pinchas Moritz, was imprisoned under Stalin, she suffered from tuberculosis in her childhood, and spent years of hardship in the Urals during WWII. In the 1950s, she went to study in Moscow, where she was briefly expelled from college for her poems' critical stance and alienation from the Soviet system. In 1961, she became widely known for her collection about the Far North...

This is the poem's author

I'm not sure about "hubble" though. It must be an odd word to refer to a grassy knoll. But it rhymed with "double"

Anonymous

@user62015 Yes, I'd change so to as, like Damkerng said. Changing boy to boys would make it ungrammatical.

Anonymous

So far, it feels like the thing I've done most often on ELL as a moderator is removing posts flagged as Not An Answer. ELL gets a lot of those.

CowperKettle

08:38

I remember a hilarious not-an-answer to one of my questions

Deo

@CowperKettle Join me and watch the sky, make this number multiply?

Damkerng T.

@snailplane It's a popular kind of answer!

CowperKettle

@Deo Great!

> Seat by me and watch the sky, let this number multiply

> I've been looking on the grass,
Hundred thoughts my mind have passed
Seat by me and watch the sky
Let this number multiply

(0:

Anonymous

@CowperKettle What is this?

Deo

I've been *looking* on the grass
Laying, perhaps?

CowperKettle

08:40

We are co-authors, @Deo!

@snailplane A translation of a short poem by Yunna Morits

Anonymous

The verb seat is new to me. I would expect sit.

Anonymous

I mean, there are certain uses of seat I'm familiar with.

CowperKettle

@snailplane Too late to edit out!

(0:

> I've been looking on the grass,
Hundred thoughts my mind have passed
Sit nearby and watch the sky
Let this number multiply

Thank you, @snailplane, you're the third author

We're like Siegfried Sassoon, Wilfried Owen and Snailplane. Three poets working as a team

Deo

@CowperKettle But who is who? :)

CowperKettle

@Deo Well, Snailplane is Snailplane (0:

@Deo Pick anyone you like from the other two

Sassoon and Owen helped each other write poems

Deo

08:45

@CowperKettle Whell, I haven't read either of thouse. But how about calling ourselves a Shakespeare?

CowperKettle

@Deo Well.. okay. Maybe Shakespeare and John Donne

John Donne

John Donne (/ˈdʌn/ DUN) (22 January 1573 – 31 March 1631) was an English poet and a cleric in the Church of England. He is considered the pre-eminent representative of the metaphysical poets. His works are noted for their strong, sensual style and include sonnets, love poems, religious poems, Latin translations, epigrams, elegies, songs, satires and sermons. His poetry is noted for its vibrancy of language and inventiveness of metaphor, especially compared to that of his contemporaries. Donne's style is characterised by abrupt openings and various paradoxes, ironies and dislocations. These features...

Deo

Bit pretentious, I know, but you can fit any number of people in there! (according to popular theory)

CowperKettle

Ah, yes! (0:

Damkerng T.

Cloud Atlas - Sextet (extended version)

►

See, everything is "connected". (^_^)

A multitude of drops, we are. :-)

CowperKettle

(0:

> 露の世は露の世ながらさりながら

> Tsuyu no yo wa tsuyu no yo nagara sari nagara
This dewdrop world --
Is a dewdrop world,
And yet, and yet . . .

Kobayashi Issa

Kobayashi Issa (小林一茶, June 15, 1763 – January 5, 1828), was a Japanese poet and lay Buddhist priest of the Jōdo Shinshū sect known for his haiku poems and journals. He is better known as simply Issa (一茶), a pen name meaning Cup-of-tea (lit. "one [cup of] tea"). He is regarded as one of the four haiku masters in Japan, along with Bashō, Buson and Shiki - "the Great Four, Basho, Buson, Issa, Shiki". Reflecting the popularity and interest in Issa as man and poet, Japanese books on Issa outnumber those on Buson, and almost equal in number those on Bashō. == Life == Issa was born and registered as...

Deo

08:50

I thought it was english learners chat, but okay :)

CowperKettle

(0:

Deo

We should question ourself: can one truely learn english without learning japanese?...

CowperKettle

*ourselves, *truly

Anonymous

@Deo It's okay to chat about other languages in here too :-)

CowperKettle

> This English chatroom --
Is an English chatroom,
And yet, and yet . .

(0:

Deo

08:54

@CowperKettle You are a great person, do you know it?

CowperKettle

@Deo Thank you! You are too!

Deo

Snail is ok too :)

Good man

►

CowperKettle

Snail is the linguist. She will outfire any gunslinger if the weapon of choice were CGEL.

Lawrence

@CowperKettle :)

CowperKettle

(0:

Deo

08:59

Is "wordslinger" a valid term?

CowperKettle

I guess it is

Lawrence

@CowperKettle I was aiming for a melancholic mood but a bright message.

Anonymous

@CowperKettle I'm just a snailplane. You should judge what I say based on its content rather than who I am :-)

Lawrence

@DamkerngT. Have you fixed it now?

Anonymous

@Deo Aww, thanks :-)

Damkerng T.

09:02

@Lawrence Still working on it. :D

CowperKettle

You see, @Deo, she is also humble, I totally forgot that great quality.

@Lawrence Nice poem! (0:

Lawrence

@DamkerngT. Need any help?

@CowperKettle Thanks. Looks like we're on a poetic theme today.

Damkerng T.

@Lawrence Well, thanks, but let's make sure I can't fix it first. :D

Lawrence

@DamkerngT. No problem. :)

Cardinal

I just promoted to fanaTic 0:)

Deo

09:07

How many poets does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
[insert punchline here]

Lawrence

@Deo A neologism derived from gunslinger.

CowperKettle

@Deo No number would be sufficient, because poets prefer candlelight

Deo

@Lawrence Uhu. I also like "wordsmith"

Lawrence

@CowperKettle :)

CowperKettle

(0:

> Dabble your hands, and steep them well
Until those nails are pearly white
Now rosier than a laurel bell;
Then come to me at candlelight.

Lay your cold hands across my brows,
And I shall sleep, and I shall dream
Of silver-pointed willow boughs
Dipping their fingers in a stream.

Deo

09:09

@CowperKettle I assume typewriters are mandatory too? )

CowperKettle

@Deo Why not goose quills?

Lawrence

@Deo Different feel. A wordslinger sounds like someone who duels with another using words. A wordsmith is one whose craft uses words (though if you'd like to continue the parallel - you might say it sounds like one who crafts using words).

Deo

My candle burns at both ends
It will not last the night
But ah, my foes and oh, my friends
It gives such lovely light

2

I might have messed it up a bit

CowperKettle

You like Millay too!

Deo

@CowperKettle Nah, I like to show off :)

@Lawrence yes, I get that. I didn't mean these are alike, just another cool word I enjoy. Also, "wordsmith" sounds to me more like somebody who crafts actual words rather then crafts with words. Someone like Lewis Carroll.

CowperKettle

09:15

@Deo Then we have much in common! (0:

Lawrence

@Deo Yes, I noticed that as well - they don't create words; they create with words. I suppose goldsmith follows the same pattern, using gold. I wonder why it feels like wordsmiths ought to create words.

user233358

Rather than a 'wordsmith', 'neologist' seems like a good fit here.

user233358

And howdy all

Deo

@Arrowfar it's not nearly as cool though!

Hello

user233358

> Noun 1. neologist - a lexicographer of new words and expressions

Deo

09:23

@Lawrence I think I heard some "-smith" variants refering to product rather then matherial. Something alike "keysmith"

Lawrence

@Deo Locksmith, perhaps?

Deo

@Lawrence Wiki said there is "keysmith" too

user62015

@DamkerngT. Hi!

Damkerng T.

Hi!

Deo

Anyway, it feels like there is a number of such words concerning products. And I myself have rarely encounered such constructs refering material, but it sounds fitting as well.

user62015

09:25

(A) No boy in the class / (B) is so tall / (C) as Raju. / (D) no error @DamkerngT.

Can we fix it (A) No other boy in the class / (B) is so tall / (C) as Raju. / (D) no error @DamkerngT.?

Damkerng T.

59 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

@user62015 You shouldn't use ... so tall as Raju. Better use ... as tall as Raju.

Lawrence

@Deo But yes, I think that's probably what pushes the idea of smiths to mean the creators of the things they smith.

user62015

"No boy" is fine?

@DamkerngT. "No boy" is fine?

Deo

If questioned "What do you do?" it feels more natural to answer "I make jewelry"/"I make locks" then "I craft things from gold"/"I craft things from metal"

Damkerng T.

@user62015 There's a saying No man can do nothing and no man can do everything. See, no man is fine. :D

user62015

09:31

Thanks.

Deo

I guess it has to do with what is most defining for one's profession. If it's a product, it will be named by product. If it's a material, it will be named by material. And usually professions are more focused on product

Damkerng T.

No problem. :D

Lawrence

4

A: The usage of 'so...as...'

The posts you link to speak of the use of so ... as ... and as ... as ... in comparisons. In that context the “rule” is as stated: so is employed only in negative comparisons. But in the two counterexamples you cite, there is no comparison. It is not asserted that the measure of one quantity or ...

Damkerng T.

@Lawrence Thanks! (You should point that to @user62015, BTW. :-)

Lawrence

@DamkerngT. Looks like you've done that already. :)

Damkerng T.

09:33

@Lawrence Ah, but we're helping @user62015 here. :D

So additional info should be directed to him. At least in my humble opinion.

Lawrence

@DamkerngT. Ok. One 'redirect' coming up ...

user62015

@DamkerngT. The food is infected ——— germs .
(A) on (B)by (C) for (D) with

Lawrence

4

A: The usage of 'so...as...'

The posts you link to speak of the use of so ... as ... and as ... as ... in comparisons. In that context the “rule” is as stated: so is employed only in negative comparisons. But in the two counterexamples you cite, there is no comparison. It is not asserted that the measure of one quantity or ...

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I guess they want by in that dialect.

Lawrence

@user62015 In that context, use with‌.

Damkerng T.

09:36

Yes, that's what I would use, too. Still, I guess they wanted by.

Cardinal

Note to myself: read this — CowperKettle 1 hour ago

user62015

Yes, but why? Both options (by, with) seem good.

Cardinal

Awo

user233358

I see SWR (single word requests) on ELL too sometimes not just on ELU. I thought we didn't do SWR on ELL main.

Cardinal

Hi guys, @V.V. I received a new badge; I am fanatic officially from now on!

Deo

09:38

A fanatic cardinal.. Why does it sound familiar?

Damkerng T.

@user62015 For me, one (by) suggests an action, while the other (with) suggests the current state of the food.

Which makes both equally acceptable to me, though I'd use with myself.

Cardinal

@user62015 I would say both "with" and "by"; however, "by" is more direct IMHO

Damkerng T.

But tests usually prefer us to think simplistically. (Or so I think.)

Cardinal

@Deo Hmm, perhaps cardinals are furious animals!

Deo

Wordsmith is interesting in that word fits both product and material roles. How would you interpret "nailer"?

Damkerng T.

09:40

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that the more well-known standard tests wouldn't be as strict as yours. @user62015

Cardinal

wordsmith? hu? Is it a job or profession?

I am selling adjectives, I am a wordsmit

Deo

@Cardinal it's a make-shift word

Damkerng T.

@Deo I guess we have to "makedo" with "makeshift" things. :P

Deo

@Cardinal sounds more like "adjectivist" to me :)

@DamkerngT. "have fun" is also a valid option!

Damkerng T.

@Deo nods -- But "makefun" should be avoided. :P

On the other hand, "havefun" is nice. I hope we're having some fun. :D

Deo

09:46

@DamkerngT. We are havefuning

Damkerng T.

Yay! :D

Deo

When you start to tinker with language you look past vocabulary and see inner intricacies of it clearer.

p.s. should I have used "dictionary" instead? I'm not sure about this

Damkerng T.

@Deo Now you sound a bit like Architect in The Matrix. :D

Cardinal

Is "look past" a ph.verb?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I think we can understand it word by word. So, maybe not, but then again maybe it is.

Sometimes I find it hard to read lexicographers' minds.

Deo

09:53

Reading minds is just hard, I could never do it myself!

user233358

Yeah. Even facial expressions are difficult to interpret sometimes.

Deo

Especially when you're in a chatroom ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

user233358

:D

CowperKettle

10:14

> Ivan Ivanov, Head of the Bioassay Laboratory, PhD (Biology) (Is this okay, or is it better to write "PhD in Biology" or "PhD, Biology"?)

This is from a table that lists the participants of a scientific study

The Russian original phrase is "Candidate of Biological Sciences", this very roughly corresponds to PhD in the West

I'm just not sure about English officialese standards: whether it's "in" or comma or round brackets

Deo

All three variants look fine to me, although I don't see need for brackets.
I've seen "Phd in <Science>" in scientific literature for sure.

CowperKettle

nods Thank you!

I was told by a supervisor translator that I can write it as "PhD, Biology" but considering that there is already a comma before PhD, this may be a bit confusind (the reader might think that PhD and Biology are two unrelated items in the list)

user233358

10:29

Being a "Translator" is interesting work. I used to mix up "translator" and "Interpreter".

CowperKettle

> Кандидат физико-математических наук \\ Candidate of Physico-Mathematical Sciences. \\ PhD in Physics/Mathematics -- would not the reader assume erroneously that the person has two degrees, instead of the actual one degree?

Well, I hope they would not

Sami1202

10:46

hi room

Lawrence

@Sami1202 Hi.

Sami1202

can I use "something is bugging me inside" in a good way? like having the passion to do something

@Lawrence hello sir :)

it seems to me, based on dictionary, its always used in negative expressions

Lawrence

@Sami1202 That's not the usual sense. "Bugging" has the idea of something troubling you.

Sami1202

what could be a similar idioms in that sense?

Lawrence

@Sami1202 That's right. You can describe the feeling of being passionate about something zeal. But saying that it's bugging you is like saying that you love someone as much as a stomachache. It doesn't go over well.

@Sami1202 It depends on the context. What are you passionate about, and what are you willing to do in relation to that?

Sami1202

10:56

I am sure that I heard a frequent expression but I cant remember it

@Lawrence lets say that " i have been always passionate about the sustainable energies back from my collage days"

and now I want to pursue it

Lawrence

@CowperKettle I'd pick the version with brackets. Ph.D stands for Doctor of Philosophy. Unlike B.Sc (Bachelor of Science) and higher doctorates such as Doctor of Engineering, which name the faculty in the degree, Ph.D is uniform across all faculty (this is based just on my own experience). Adding "in Biology" or ", Biology" after the post-nominal Ph.D sits a little awkwardly.

@Sami1202 Ok. The sentence looks fine as is. You might call it a burning desire, but that might raise eyebrows within the sustainable energy segment. :)

Deo

@Sami1202 Will "bothers" do? It has less negativity attached. Also "something touches me from inside" souds like good option.

Lawrence

@Deo I think feeling bothered about sustainable energies doesn't quite convey the idea either. :)

@Sami1202 What is it about your sentence that you feel doesn't quite express the way you feel about the subject?

Sami1202

nothing wrong with the sentence but I should do a better job in memorising

now it is literally bugging me that I cant remember :D

Deo

11:16

@Lawrence I've seen that used in scientific literature. Ph.D. in Physics sounds just right to me. Also, I would use brackets if main focus was on that person has Ph.D., and scientific field is secondary information. That said, I can see all three variants being used, it's a matter of taste mostly.

Damkerng T.

@Sami1202 It's like the burning of an eternal flame, perhaps? :-)

@JonnyCundall Hi! Welcome to the room!

Sami1202

@DamkerngT. yes yes ;)

Damkerng T.

:D

Lawrence

@Deo If you're using "Ph.D" as a noun, then "Dr Deo received a Ph.D in Physics" sounds fine. If you're using it as a post-nominal, "Dr Deo, Ph.D in Physics" looks a bit odd. "Dr Deo, Ph.D" is standard, and if you want to specify your field of study, you can use "Dr Deo, Ph.D (Physics)".

This is especially so if you list other degrees: consider "Dr Deo, Ph.D, MBA, LLM" vs "Dr Deo, Ph.D in Physics, MBA, LLM" or "Dr Deo, Ph.D, Physics, MBA, LLM". Here's the bracketed form for comparison: "Dr Deo, Ph.D (Physics), MBA, LLM".

@CowperKettle ^

Deo

11:32

I can't find examples right now, but it doesn't feel that odd to me.

CowperKettle

12:05

@Lawrence Thank you, I'll change it to round brackets!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. What makes you guess that?

Anonymous

With seems like the better choice.

Damkerng T.

This!

2 hours ago, by Damkerng T.

But tests usually prefer us to think simplistically. (Or so I think.)

Anonymous

Ironically, I think that may have caused you to overthink it :-)

Anonymous

What did the book give as the correct answer?

Damkerng T.

12:08

I don't know. I'm curious about that, too! :D

Considering that they include both with and by, I don't think it's a very good test anyway.

(I guess they (the test) could do the same with He belongs to/with her, and try to force one choice over the other in their answer.)

Damkerng T.

12:22

BTW, can you pass this test?

Which sentence(s) is/are grammatically incorrect?

> 11. I) Readability is crucial.
II) Be sure of the font we choose is legible and logical.
III) With all of the newest and interesting typefaces available today, it is tempting to pick one that you think looks "cool".
IV) This can work if you are going for an edgy look that will appeal to a young audience, but your copy still needs to be easily understood.
(a) I and IV; (b) II only; (c) III only; (d) II and III

(Don't google for it! :P)

Lawrence

@CowperKettle You're welcome. Perhaps I should have used Dr Kettle, Ph.D (Physics) instead. :)

Deo

I would say II and IV, but since it's not an available option... (b) II only

@Lawrence Dr Kettle, Ph.D. in Poetry :P

Anonymous

It's hard to say, but I really don't like all of the newest and interesting typefaces available today.

Anonymous

So I'm going to go for II and III.

Damkerng T.

applauds

Deo

12:32

So, what did I win?

Lawrence

@DamkerngT. When looking at the phrase "infected by/with", I'd consider by to indicate the vector of transmission (the thing that carried the infection into the patient), and with to indicate the content of the infection.

Damkerng T.

@Lawrence More or less the same idea I mentioned, I think.

@Deo Sorry, you did not. :D

Deo

Awww :'(

Lawrence

@DamkerngT. Sorry, I must have missed that.

Damkerng T.

@snailplane How would you fix III?

(I'm guessing... maybe deleting all of the.)

Deo

12:35

@DamkerngT. Yeah, I suppose deleting all of the III will fix it :)

No sentence - no problem

Damkerng T.

@Deo Haha!

> III) ~~With all of the newest and interesting typefaces available today, it is tempting to pick one that you think looks "cool".~~

III is grammatical now. :D

Deo

Indeed it is

I'm naming this field of science "Zenguistics".

Lawrence

@DamkerngT. I'd pick (d) II and III as well. II can be fixed by changing of to that. III's problem is that "the newest" and "interesting" are 'incompatible' (maybe because one is a superlative and the other is just a plain adjective). To fix this, change newest to new.

Damkerng T.

Oh, yes, that was the guess I had in mind the first time (several days, ago)!

But zeugma is not that bad in real English, I suppose.

Lawrence

@DamkerngT. Ok. I'm behind on the conversation, then. I'll leave it to you and @snailplane to complete your discussion.

Damkerng T.

12:40

It's completed. It's complete, too. Or so I think. :D

Lawrence

@DamkerngT. I thought this was still pending:

7 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

@snailplane How would you fix III?

Damkerng T.

@Lawrence We came up with two alternatives. I think that sufficed.

Lawrence

@DamkerngT. It depends.

Damkerng T.

0

Q: Preposition to use with “fall behind"

Which of the following sentences are correct? I’ve been falling behind in my work. I’ve been falling behind with my work. I’ve been falling behind on my work. I’ve seen all three sentences written in different places, so I’ve gotten a bit confused. Are they all acceptable? Is any ...

grammar word-usage

I imagine that this kind of question is quite popular in a certain kind of English test/exam.

CowperKettle

13:18

@DamkerngT. II only

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle The key of the test chooses both II and III as the answer.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Coordination of unlikes is often possible:

Anonymous

> He's a republican and proud of it!

Anonymous

But not always.

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. I thought that III was planted there to tempt the pupil to pick it.

Anonymous

13:20

A precise description of when it is possible is quite difficult to write.

CowperKettle

> With all of the newest and interesting typefaces available today, it is tempting to pick one that you think looks "cool". (I'd remove "of")

ah, and "newest" might be awkward, yes

> Autoimmune diseases are a group of chronic inflammatory diseases caused by autoaggression of the organism towards its own tissues.

"autoaggression" towards "own tissues" is buttered butter

Damkerng T.

I suppose that the test designer wouldn't think that With all of the newest, interesting typefaces available today, ... looks that bad, BTW.

CowperKettle

I really thought it was a ploy sentence... a decoy sentence

Student

that you think looks cool ? that you think cool ? :)

Damkerng T.

That part is actually fine.

CowperKettle

13:28

You scare my with your Black Rectangle avatar. (0:

Damkerng T.

nods -- Your room is pretty dark! @Student

CowperKettle

Malevich avatar

Student

I was about to select III, but with all those complicated issues I'd better leave it lol

Damkerng T.

This could come in handy! mlapoliceequipment.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/… :-) @Student

Student

@DamkerngT. @DamkerngT. Yes, it is bright here especially as London is hot nowadays lol

Damkerng T.

13:32

:D

What's the temp. over there right now?

CowperKettle

@Student Wow, lucky you. Yekaterinburg is cold.

It's +26C in London

And the horrible +29°C in Bangkok (I recalled the number combination for the temperature sign)

Anonymous

29°C isn't too bad if it's not humid :-)

CowperKettle

As always, it is 2 degrees colder in Pervouralsk..

No, I don't like temperatures above +24°C ^_^

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle It's nicely warm. :D

Anonymous

I consider 29°C a comfy temperature.

Student

13:41

:) :D

CowperKettle

In light of the above, I reconsider my temp limit upwards to 29°C. (0:

Anonymous

:-D

Damkerng T.

Oh, no! You lost your eyes. Ah, you got them back! :D

Kikkawa (in Spec - Close - Incarnation) would love 29 C. His personal line: "Written 'Yoshikawa' ... but pronounced 'Kikkawa'." :)

(He was mummified by some kind of frozen spell, and his boss brought him back by pouring lukewarm water on him periodically. Just like instant noodles, his boss said. -- BTW, don't think too much; it's a manga-based movie, I think. Just watched it last night while coding. I like this kind of movie 'cause its effect is somewhat caffeine-like!)

Anonymous

14:31

@DamkerngT. I just had to put on my glasses :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailplane :D

Student

lol

CowperKettle

> There is no reliable data on the prevalence of psoriasis in Russia today, but we know that this inflammatory skin disease is one of the most prevalent both in our country and abroad: (I'm thinking of removing "today" to evade ambiguity and of using "current prevalence")

Ha. Posting this here made me revisit the original. It turns out I translated it wrong.

> There is no reliable data on the prevalence of psoriasis in Russia today, but we know that it is one of the most prevalent inflammatory skin diseases both in our country and abroad.

This is better.

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Oh! -- Good thing you posted it here, then! :D

CowperKettle

Yes.

Evening, Colleen!

ColleenV

14:43

Howdy

Damkerng T.

Hi!

CowperKettle

> Oh, friend, forget not, when you fain would note
In me a beauty that was never mine,
How first you knew me in a book I wrote,
How first you loved me for a written line:
So are we bound till broken is the throat
Of Song, and Art no more leads out the Nine.

ColleenV

Sorry, I'm distracted by work. Where is that poem from @CowperKettle?

How dare work distract me from my distraction! :)

CowperKettle

@ColleenV This is from a sonnet by Millay. She is one of the best poets of your country, maybe the best in the 20th century.

Millay and Roethke are two best US poets of the 20th century.

ColleenV

Agreed, although I don't read much poetry.

CowperKettle

14:55

Or maybe I haven't yet found the better poets.

> Now as the train bears west,
Its rhythm rocks the earth,
And from my Pullman berth
I stare into the night
While others take their rest.
Bridges of iron lace,
A suddenness of trees,
A lap of mountain mist
All cross my line of sight,
Then a bleak wasted place,
And a lake below my knees.
Full on my neck I feel
The straining at a curve;
My muscles move with steel,
I wake in every nerve.
I watch a beacon swing
From dark to blazing bright;
We thunder through ravines
And gullies washed with light.
Beyond the mountain pass

ColleenV

It depends on what you like I suppose. Many of the poets I studied in school didn't really grab me

CowperKettle

This is Roethke

@ColleenV Maybe because they taught non-rhyming poets

ColleenV

Oh I like e e cummings

I enjoy how he incorporates the typography and layout of the wordsame on the page

user233358

Howdy Colleen!

ColleenV

Heya

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