Language Overflow

Cardinal

15:01

23 mins ago, by Cardinal

It has a front page and a behind

Why did I say "behind"? My dictionary says a behind is a euphemism for "bottom" :D

CowperKettle

A pre-election ad in Russia.

"Tolko vpered!" means "Only ahead!" (i.e. we move only ahead!)

But for some reason the candidate moved the letter.

DEAD

@CowperKettle only a head!

CowperKettle

"Tolko v pered!" means "Only in the front!" which has a lot of dirty connotations...

1

Q: what time the *shall be* refer to in the following sentence?

How can I compare shall be with will in the following sentence? I mean, what time the shall be refer to in comparing with will? ... that 27 [of 930] ministers die yearly, 18 of them leave Widows, 5 of them Children without a Widow, 2 of them who leave Widows, leave also Children of a former M...

Cardinal

@CowperKettle :))

CowperKettle

An arcane piece of text

I don't understand this "when the whole Number of Widows shall be complete"

I added the link to the page there

It's about a pension fund

Damkerng T.

15:17

@CowperKettle The passage sounds almost sinister out of context!

CowperKettle

> I once even proposed that the toughest challenge facing AI workers is to answer the question: "What are the letters 'A' and 'I'?"

web.stanford.edu/group/SHR/4-2/text/hofstadter.html

Was reading the AI SE and wound up there..

12

Q: Do scientists know what is happening inside artificial neural networks?

Do scientists or research experts know from the kitchen what is happening inside complex "deep" neural network with at least millions of connections firing at an instant? Do they understand the process behind this (e.g. what is happening inside and how it works exactly), or it is a subject of deb...

neural-networks deep-learning conv-neural-network

> The results are intriguing—even a relatively simple neural network can be used to over-interpret an image, just like as children we enjoyed watching clouds and interpreting the random shapes. This network was trained mostly on images of animals, so naturally it tends to interpret shapes as animals. But because the data is stored at such a high abstraction, the results are an interesting remix of these learned features.

The Pig-Snail is cute!

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle A simple answer is, no.

CowperKettle

nods

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Indeed!

To human eyes, this picture means nothing.

CowperKettle

I heard that Google switched its search engine to the neural network mode this year

Damkerng T.

15:32

@CowperKettle I'm not even sure how they did it before that (assuming that they really switched the engine).

CowperKettle

Neither am I!

Cardinal

I think neural network was used before

In fact, neural network is used when you want predict something based on the previous information

It is something like maximum likelihood detection

Maximum likelihood estimation

In statistics, maximum likelihood estimation (MLE) is a method of estimating the parameters of a statistical model given data. The method of maximum likelihood corresponds to many well-known estimation methods in statistics. For example, one may be interested in the heights of adult female penguins, but be unable to measure the height of every single penguin in a population due to cost or time constraints. Assuming that the heights are normally distributed with some unknown mean and variance, the mean and variance can be estimated with MLE while only knowing the heights of some sample of the overall...

Damkerng T.

I think most people usually think of AI as something better than it is.

But AI poses a very good question, is human that good?

Cardinal

:-)

"Machine Vision" and "Pattern Recognition" are the academic courses that encompass roughly similar things

@DamkerngT. Human has ingenuity and creativity. How can an AI compete in this battle? So far, they have been only fast machines. They lack passion and motivation. I think AI are only great tools.

Damkerng T.

@Cardinal To me, it really poses a truly important question. (Though I don't think of it seriously most of the time.) I'm sure we can build an AI that can demonstrate all characteristics of human beings (in term of expressiveness, putting biological aspects aside) some day. If that day comes, what's the real difference between human intelligence and artificial intelligence.

Jim Reynolds

15:45

says furiously: So. @Lawrence is everyone's new best friend, just like that, huh? I see. Oh now HE's the new Jim: The brilliant one, the witty one, the beloved. Fine. Have fun. (Slams door)

CowperKettle

> j write you this letter for say to you that you had done a very good book. It is not however that is not somme fautes but you schal may corect them in the next edition: then schal you may sell you work five pound every exemplary. (An English letter written by Napoleon after a year's worth of styding English)

napoleon.org/en/history-of-the-two-empires/articles/…

No, not a year's worth, less time.

> Since sixt week j learn the Englich and j do not any progress. Six week do fourty and two day. If might have learn fivity word four day I could konow it two thusands and two hundred. (WOW! Only six weeks)

2

Jim Reynolds

Actually, I also wanted to point to new comments to this one, nb @Law

3

Q: A question about using definite article with ordinal numbers: "content with third place" or "content with the third place"?

I was reading the definition of the verb "content" came across with this example: "he had to be content with third place" Shouldn't it be: "he had to be content with the third place" I thought that ordinal numbers take definite articles in such sentences. Especially, in this case the ...

definite-article ordinal

Cardinal

@DamkerngT. I think machines can only understand costs and benefits. Maybe a machine will be Nitche's superman.

Damkerng T.

Let's have a thought experiment.
Let's say a human brain has 100 billion neurons. Let's suppose that we can build a machine that has a trillion neural network nodes and we let these nodes make connection with other nodes freely. We connect this network to some trillion arbitrary non-binary input receptors and to some billion arbitrary non-binary output actuators. We may cheat a bit by having some parts of the network hard-wired, like it will try its best to favor some manipulable parameters the "teacher" can tune. We connect the receptors and actuators to a humanoid robot, and the teacher p…

Cardinal

Hmm, so we can copy personalities?

Damkerng T.

16:00

We can't, I think, if we let it make the connections freely.

But we can cheat a little by having some parts hard-wired.

Cardinal

In order to domesticate them, hu?

Damkerng T.

For whatever purpose. :D

I guess we may get this:

:D

CowperKettle

(0:

Damkerng T.

Either the bear or the child, BTW. :P

Cardinal

:-) I didn't see that movie

So far, I was thinking to computing capacities of such machines. Consider a machine which monitors every single person's communication, their relationship, their media, their business, and word trade .... . I think then we would have the God.

It would be able to predict people

As you can see in POI

Damkerng T.

16:07

@Cardinal I'm afraid we already have more or less a basic form of that machine.

Cardinal

Person of Interest (TV series)

Person of Interest is an American science fiction crime drama television series that aired on CBS from September 22, 2011, to June 21, 2016, over five seasons, comprising a total of 103 episodes. Person of Interest was created by Jonathan Nolan, and executive produced by Nolan, J. J. Abrams, Bryan Burk, Greg Plageman, Denise Thé, and Chris Fisher. Person of Interest centers on John Reese (Jim Caviezel), a presumed-dead former CIA agent who is hired by a mysterious billionaire named Harold Finch (Michael Emerson), to prevent impending violent crimes predicted by the Machine, a mass-surveillance...

DEAD

@Cardinal The machine predicted that I'm responding to this message in a badass manner

There already are those machines.

But instead of a single superstrong . . . thing . . . it's paid human labor.

You're being watched. The US government has a system of people that watches you every hour of every day.

Damkerng T.

Think zettabytes. Somewhere, over the rainbow, somewhere, is a system with several zettabytes capacity.

DEAD

They already know Dam is plotting to destroy the world, for example.

Damkerng T.

:D

DEAD

16:12

They just might not want to stop you, consider how humans have turned into jerks.

Cardinal

16:57

> Still, if her attempts to marry wealth are perfunctory, her efforts to increase hers are disastrous.

Is "marry wealth" idiomatic

It is from Oxford Dictionary

DEAD

@Cardinal That's not what's in your quote.

Cardinal

:-)

How do you use articles in Russian?

@CowperKettle

CowperKettle

Russian has no articles, @Cardinal

Hmm. Cardinal has left the building.

@DEAD A good thing. Someone cares about me.

DEAD

@CowperKettle Other than me?! Jealous

Cardinal

17:24

@CowperKettle hmm, so how do you refer to a general thing, I mean how do you say : "I see a car".

@CowperKettle building? building cards? or building- a shelter?

CowperKettle

@Cardinal "a car" in "I see a car" is a specific thing

@Cardinal It's a stale joke on "Elvis has left the building"

Elvis has left the building

"Elvis has left the building" is a phrase that was often used by public address announcers at the conclusion of Elvis Presley concerts in order to disperse audiences who lingered in hopes of an encore. It has since become a catchphrase and punchline. == Origin == The phrase was first used by promoter Horace Lee Logan on December 15, 1956, near Shreveport, Louisiana. Elvis had appeared in the middle of the night's lineup, and Logan needed to quiet the audience so that the remaining performers could play. The full quotation was: All right, all right, Elvis has left the building. I've told ...

Damkerng T.

Thai: [Me-see-car] or [Me-see-one-car].

Cardinal

@CowperKettle Ow, are you sure? Is it a minivan, bus, or a yellow taxi ?

CowperKettle

@Cardinal If is see an unknown car, I will just say: "I see car"

@Cardinal Yes, it's a specific car, but "indefinite".

Damkerng T.

[Me-see-car-run-to-way-this-one-car]. :D

Jim Reynolds

17:29

@Cardinal Each card has a front and a back. Or front side and .. a back side. Or ... a prompt on the front and an answer/response on the back

Damkerng T.

Can you guess what it means? :)

CowperKettle

You can guess from the context whether I speak of a car mentioned before or of a new car.

Russian language has flexible word order, that helps.

Cardinal

We didn't have special definite article in Persian

CowperKettle

> "Boy entered into room" (meaning "the boy")
"Into room entered boy" (meaning "a boy")

Cardinal

But, one and "a" are extensively used

CowperKettle

17:32

We have "a" (the one-letter word "a") but it means "but".

Damkerng T.

:D

Cardinal

@DamkerngT. I see a car coming in our direction, it is going to hit us

CowperKettle

Koshka spit a myshku vidit (The cat sleeps but sees the mouse)

Damkerng T.

@Cardinal Very close! If you remove "it is going to hit us", it would be something like "I see/saw a car coming this way." (Thai has no tense.)

@CowperKettle He must be dreaming, a sweet dream!

Cardinal

@DamkerngT. I add that part to stand out the direction

In Persian nouns become definite automatically when they being modified by other nouns or adjectives

DEAD

17:35

@Cardinal No they don't

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. No, the meaning that despite sleeping the cat can see if the mouse moves by.

Cardinal

@DEAD I am speaking very generally, you know that

Jim Reynolds

@Cardinal Yes. Also marry into wealth; marry into money.

DEAD

@Cardinal That's just plain wrong. Not simplified, not generalized.

The article system in Persian is close to non-existent.

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Wow! Russian cats have got talent!

Cardinal

17:37

@DEAD what about ی نکره and یک

؟

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. Yes. It's a saying. And "Koshka" is a she, mark the "a" ending. (0:

DEAD

@Cardinal Yes, that's an indefinite marker.

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle A-ha! Thanks for the tip!

DEAD

'یک' is sometimes an indefinite marker, and sometimes not.

CowperKettle

"Koshka v lukoshke" is "cat in a basket"

Cardinal

17:38

know, what about "سیب روی میز" which means "the apple on (the) table"

CowperKettle

There is a children's verse titled "Koshka v lukoshke"

DEAD

@Cardinal There is no system of assigning definite or indefinite-ness there. You just say it's definite because the meaning implies.

Cardinal

@CowperKettle sounds cheerful

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle I think we just talked about a sign that has a "v" on it a couple hours ago!

DEAD

But there are no syntactical elements in that phrase that function as a determiner.

Cardinal

17:39

@DEAD I think I was talking the same thing

DEAD

Not even the 'eh'.

Cardinal

When I used the term "automatically"

Damkerng T.

@DEAD But a definite-indefinite concept exists, right?

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. Yes, Russian preposition "v" means "inside, in" or "into" (when you move something into something)

Cardinal

@DamkerngT. Yes, definitely

Damkerng T.

17:40

nods

Cardinal

@JimReynolds Thanks jim what does that mean?

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle I like it because it's only one letter.

DEAD

@Cardinal But that's wrong. "یک گربه ی سیاه" isn't definite, and neither is the version without 'yek'.

Cardinal

Does it mean to devout yourself to wealth

DEAD

@DamkerngT. Merely

CowperKettle

17:41

@DamkerngT. Russian has some one-letter prepositions. "V, K, U, I"

DEAD

@Cardinal No, definitely not

Cardinal

@DEAD Are you sure, here is not the right place to discuss that

DEAD

Yay, this is getting interesting.

@Cardinal I am sure.

Wait, why?

Cardinal

but, یک گربه ی سیاه == گربه ای سیاه== a black cat

CowperKettle

@Cardinal Go ahead, I like squiggly things. (0:

Cardinal

17:43

@DEAD I mean here is for topics related to English

Damkerng T.

@Cardinal Language Overflow embraces all languages in the world. :)

Cardinal

@DEAD a black cat crossed the street == یک گربه ی سیاه عرض کوچه را طی کرد

Damkerng T.

(English subtitles would be nice, though.)

Cardinal

OK, sorry for any unfamiliar terms

DEAD

@Cardinal Exactly my point. That's definite there, and not definite in another sentence.

We don't have an article system.

Not one that you're looking for.

That doesn't mean Persian is a lacking language.

It just means that we have no frigging articles!

Cardinal

17:45

OK, calm down now consider this:

@DEAD a black cat crossed the street == یک گربه عرض کوچه را طی کرد

DEAD

I can consider all the examples that you want. You first need to show me a word that functions as a determiner.

Cardinal

@DEAD I didn't say that, I said we use "a" and "one"

DEAD

A word that consistently functions as a determiner.

@Cardinal Yes, and I agree that they are some kinds of semi-articles, but they don't function like "the" or "a" in English.

Cardinal

And nouns become definite automatically in a noun phrase or adjectival phrases

Avicenna

A black cat crossed the street = گربه ای سیاه از خیابان رد شد.

DEAD

17:48

No they don't.

Cardinal

@DEAD Yes, And I didn't claim that

But, the concept does exist

Avicenna

Hi all!

Cardinal

Hi

DEAD

7 mins ago, by DEAD

@DamkerngT. Merely

The point is, you can't tell a linguist that "Persian has an article system".

Cardinal

@DamkerngT. asked is there any concept? I said yes definitely

DEAD

17:50

A system would require much more than that.

@Cardinal Again, merely.

It's like not existing.

Not existing.

Damkerng T.

@Avicenna (^_^)/

Cardinal

Fine, it is binary

DEAD

@Avicenna \o

Cardinal

Does the concept exist? yes or no ?

Avicenna

I remember my professor translated the last leaf as آن برگ آخر

DEAD

17:51

@Cardinal Merely lies closer to 'no'.

Avicenna

Here آن was in a way an equivalent for the.

DEAD

Well, in reality, آن is 'that'.

Not 'the'.

Avicenna

Yes, but not exactly here.

Cardinal

@DEAD I said between yes and no, binary

DEAD

So no. Still no.

@Cardinal We can't be Schrodinger, we have to pick one.

I'm picking 'no'.

Cardinal

17:53

So I cannot accept that. we extensively use "یه نکره" which works similar to "a" in many many circumstances

Jim Reynolds

@Cardinal To marry a wealthy person

Cardinal

@JimReynolds Thanks for your answer, I didn't check the dictionary.

Jim Reynolds

@Cardinal Shame on you

Damkerng T.

LOL

DEAD

@JimReynolds Name on shoe

Cardinal

17:55

@JimReynolds I know :-), and I am sorry

Jim Reynolds

Are you indolent?

Avicenna

@JimReynolds :D

Cardinal

@JimReynolds Nop, I am convincing a guy that we use something similar to "a"

DEAD

We. Don't. Period.

It functions like 'a' in some cases, and not like 'a' in others.

That makes it not like 'a', surprise!

Cardinal

@DEAD ِIsn't that sufficient that makes us say that the concept exists?

DEAD

17:57

20

Q: Do learners with an L1 without articles have problems using them in an L2 with articles?

Before learning English, I had acquired fluency in Persian and I'm a native speaker of Azeri Turkish. Neither language has articles, but I didn't find myself in trouble deciphering their usage in English; my intuition in using or not using them has been adequately accurate. However, on ELL, I've...

reference-request articles

Jim Reynolds

@Cardinal convincing, or trying to convince?

DEAD

@Cardinal Unfortunately, no.

Cardinal

@JimReynolds hmm, trying I suppose

DEAD

The concept would exist if you have a word. All it does would be to be an article.

Then we'd call Persian as having an article.

Jim Reynolds

@Cardinal He is ornery lately

DEAD

17:59

I was expecting you to bring را into attention, Card.

That's your only real article.

But you didn't.

Avicenna

@Dead I just noticed your avatar in that question you posted. It's like a dead man with hands open to sides.

:D

DEAD

Even then, there's a restriction.

You can't use را with any NP you want.

Damkerng T.

o|--<

DEAD

You can only use it with objects.

Damkerng T.

Like this, @Avicenna? :)

Jim Reynolds

18:01

@Avicenna Even after he became dead, he's never stopped spouting nonsense

DEAD

@JimReynolds Even.

Cardinal

@DEAD I was talking very very generally. You took it technically.

DEAD

That's how it should be.

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds The ~~Walking~~ Talking Dead, new season, coming soon. :P

Cardinal

@DamkerngT. :D

DEAD

18:02

Technically, we don't have articles. Generally, we have articles.

Why is this only contradictory to me?

@DamkerngT. Chatting

Jim Reynolds

@Cardinal He likes to argue. That's because of his underlying psychological issues, which I have generously invited him to discuss here

DEAD

Thanks, Jim.

You're our hero.

Jim Reynolds

@DEAD Tell us how you release your "personal" frustrations

@DamkerngT. :D

DEAD

I be mean to people

Then I get a couple of ice creams.

And enjoy them while people fight back

Jim Reynolds

Are there any more adaptive choices you could make?

DEAD

18:06

Yes.

I could also buy pop corn.

Jim Reynolds

Oh, @Cardinal ...

Can't you buy him a little booklet: "So, you're a teenager now!"

DEAD

Sure will

Jim Reynolds

O.O

Cardinal

@JimReynolds Where I stand in this discussion, I see my name being pinged!

Jim Reynolds

@DEAD needs to learn about his biological drives

Cardinal

18:11

[me see one robot]

he does not talk

[me see one kettle], too

Jim Reynolds

He might be scratching himself

Cardinal

he does not talk, too

Jim Reynolds

He's programmed to itch

Cruel, really

Cardinal

@JimReynolds :-)

Jim Reynolds

:D

Cardinal

18:14

[me saw one flying kettle]

Avicenna

@DamkerngT. yes, exactly! :D

DEAD

@Cardinal I threw him

Avicenna

@DEAD You need to change your avatar after you changed your name.

Damkerng T.

@Avicenna :D

DEAD

@Avicenna That's what I always do.

Avicenna

18:17

@DEAD Good!

Jim Reynolds

m.imgur.com/gallery/u8Pp7cg

I was here today

Cardinal

:) you follow Wushu?

I think that must be very popular in the eastern Asia

Jim Reynolds

One of my students got a silver medal today

DEAD

@JimReynolds Then you need to be careful from now on

Cardinal

Good job

Jim Reynolds

18:21

@DEAD O.O

Avicenna

0

Q: Parts of speech

I went for a walk this morning. On my way I crossed a training center: Scotland Police dogs training centre. I know centre is a noun in "Scotland Police dogs training center". What part of speech is Scotland in "Scotland Police dogs training centre"? What part of speech is Police in "Scotlan...

parts-of-speech

DEAD

@Avicenna Our answers can ignite him.

Jim Reynolds

^

Cardinal

@JimReynolds I read your profile today

You were in Stanford

WoW, man that is really moving

Jim Reynolds

It was fabricated by my agency

Avicenna

18:25

@DEAD I guess so!

Jim Reynolds

@Cardinal Moving? How so?

Cardinal

Because I haven't had this chance to talk with a person studied over there

Jim Reynolds

It caused you to lose any positive image of Stanford that you may have had?

DEAD

@JimReynolds It's motional

The e dropped just for you.

@JimReynolds It did in my case.

Jim Reynolds

I'm an emo

DEAD

18:27

I'm a tional

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds Neat!

Jim Reynolds

You forgot the irra

DEAD

Jim Reynolds

Haha

Cardinal

LoL

Jim Reynolds

18:29

@DamkerngT. Yes. Very cool. :-)

Cardinal

Also, "Columbia University" is very prestigious.

Jim Reynolds

I snuck in.

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds Was it dancing or fighting? (Sorry for the lack of better words)

Jim Reynolds

Dancing

Damkerng T.

I see!

Jim Reynolds

18:33

I forgot the name for it, too

Taichi chuang?

Cardinal

@DEAD That photo expressed racist content

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds That sounds about right!

DEAD

@Cardinal What?

Jim Reynolds

Apologize, @DEAD

DEAD

You know that's not gonna happen, Jim.

I'd rather eat bamboos.

Cardinal

18:35

Because the color of the skins

:)

Jim Reynolds

The brown guy is always the ... oh wait ... smart one!

DEAD

@Cardinal Ah, common man. It's just a lighthearted comic.

Cardinal

@JimReynolds bingo

Jim Reynolds

@Cardinal :D

Cardinal

@DEAD I was joking, it is fun to be funny

DEAD

18:36

Why does everyone like to call everything racist these days . . .

Cardinal

@DEAD something like that

DEAD

@Cardinal Oh, the joke didn't get across. I'm actually really sick of the incorrectly politically correct people.

Everyone should be like Jim.

Don't insult people, just tease them.

Cardinal

I didn't insult anyone, but someone may be offended and say that comic is racist

DEAD

People get offended for the smallest things these days.

Thankfully, none of the people in this chat are like those people.

Cardinal

However, It is fun to be nitpicker, :p

DEAD

18:39

Indeed

Jim Reynolds

@DEAD There's a fine balance to try to tread

DEAD

I'm on a rope

Jim Reynolds

Many things that seem small represent big things to people

Teasing is very fun, but we all get hurt or offended for things that are emotional, not necessarily rational, at least on appearance

Being too careful can be a form of prejudice

Like as if race/ethnicity don't exist

DEAD

But there are things that are small for everyone, but some people want to make look big

@JimReynolds Oh, gawd. I should've been offended long ago!

Avicenna

@JimReynolds Question: don't exist or doesn't?

DEAD

18:45

I promise I won't if you make me a sandwich.

@Avicenna Both, if we don't want to nitpick

Avicenna

I want to learn.

Cardinal

It reminds me of my codes when I face to this situation: (near zero) *(near infinite) :-)

DEAD

but 'don't' is nonstandard if we're talking about a single thing

Jim Reynolds

@Avi wants to learn to nitpick

DEAD

And 'doesn't' would sometimes work and sometimes be ungrammatical about coordinated objects.

Avicenna

18:46

@JimReynolds not really. :D

Jim Reynolds

It depends on how we read race/ethnicity

Avicenna

Because you are a native, I thought maybe there is a rule for that and I don't know it.

@JimReynolds can you explain more, please?

Jim Reynolds

My brain said / = and/or

DEAD

And I equated it to 'or'

Oh, I didn't.

I thought I did

Jim Reynolds

But we could read as the thing we may call race or ethnicity

Avicenna

18:49

Even with or we need do?

Cardinal

I got it as "and" because of "don't"

Jim Reynolds

@Avicenna Probably would be the more technically correct choice, but we might choose either one

Avicenna

Oh, I thpught it should be race or ethnicity doesn't exist.

DEAD

Cardinal

0

Q: the verb agreement for conjunction of plural and singular nouns

I wrote: When using this technique, the document or segments of a document is/are viewed as plain text. Should I use is or are in this sentence?

subject-verb-agreement singular-vs-plural

Jim Reynolds

18:52

They are two different things

Race is a problematic term

Avicenna

So we can use either one, I mean do and does.

@JimReynolds nods :D

Jim Reynolds

Yes.

Avicenna

Thank you.

Jim Reynolds

Depending on our conceptualization of it as one thing or two things.

Is your house/apartment big?

Avicenna

@JimReynolds I see.

Cardinal

18:54

I will accept Tromano's answer before going to bed

Avicenna

@Cardinal lucky they!

Jim Reynolds

I go bed now. Night!

Avicenna

Night @JimReynolds!

Cardinal

@JimReynolds Night, o/

Damkerng T.

Nighty night!

DEAD

18:57

\o Jim

Don't let the bed bugs bite.

Not that they have any appeals to bite you.

Cardinal

@DEAD :-)

Transcript for