Language Overflow

Anonymous

00:41

@CowperKettle What word?

Damkerng T.

01:29

Oh, it was my typo! Sorry about that, Yukatan! Thanks for pointing that out, CowperKettle! Thanks for fixing it, snail plane! — Damkerng T. 21 secs ago

Thanks!

@CowperKettle LOL

Something like -nning, perhaps?

Damkerng T.

02:14

@TRomano When answering questions asked by EFL learners, I prefer to give the answer they'll need on the exam they'll be taking, where only one option is considered correct. It's important to make the distinction to an EFL learner, otherwise he'll be totally confused. Literary references need to be qualified. — Cathy Gartaganis 13 hours ago

It's a little sad that EFL (repeat, EFL) learners are thought of that way.

> The landlord insisted: "You're here illegitimately. It's no use to argue."

> Beautiful Work: A Meditation on Pain by Sharon Cameron

So, let's move on.

Damkerng T.

02:28

What is coming to be called 'substantive' editing (as opposed to 'copyediting') requires not only mastery of the language but a thorough understanding of the literary genre involved, and in technical fields an expert knowledge of the relevant canons of evidence and argumentation. It's not something you can pick up from casual reading. — StoneyB 13 hours ago

^Worth noting.

Hi, @MagicHat! Welcome to the room!

Damkerng T.

02:52

4

A: Overdose or overdo on vitamins?

If I eat so many vitamin C's that I get a tummy ache, I would say that "I might have overdone it with the vitamin C." If I have so many vitamin E capsules that my sweat smells like fish oil, then "I might have overdone it with the Vitamin E." If my kid gets into the Iron tablets and eats so...

I wonder if I smell like fish oil! :D

Anonymous

03:24

Hello!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I have fish oil pills, but I don't take very many.

Damkerng T.

@snailplane I take two vitamin E pills every day. :D

Anonymous

I'm not sure the evidence behind fish oil pills is really good right now, but at least at the level of one per day, they don't seem to do anything bad.

Damkerng T.

(Doctor's order :-)

@snailplane IIRC, it's not just that fish is popular in Japan, everything fish, including fish eyeballs, is considered good as well!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Oh, fish is definitely good for you!

Anonymous

03:28

Although there are genetic differences in how well people's bodies can deal with low levels of mercury.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... but I remember that you wouldn't have much fish. So, fish oil pills are okay, but not the fish meat? (Is fish meat? Argh!)

Anonymous

Oh, I'm allowed to eat cooked fish.

Anonymous

I'm under doctor's orders not to eat raw fish.

Damkerng T.

Ahh... I forgot the "raw" part!

Anonymous

So I can still eat fish! :-)

Damkerng T.

03:30

Yay!

Anonymous

When you eat fish, that's meat by the broad definition of the word.

Anonymous

Sometimes the word is used with a narrower sense, although I don't think it makes any sense to exclude fish from the category of meat.

Damkerng T.

nods -- Somehow I felt weird to write "fish meat" up there. (^_^)

Anonymous

When I say meat, I always mean to include fish.

Anonymous

Fish are, after all, animals.

Damkerng T.

03:32

nods

Anonymous

I feel like fish and meat don't collocate very often, though.

Damkerng T.

BTW, I hope that a sea anemone won't see another sea anemone an enemy. :P

(It's probably better to use 'as' before 'an enemy' in that sentence.)

Anonymous

I hope not! War in the kingdom of the sea anemonae!

Damkerng T.

@snailplane Hehe!

Anonymous

03:58

@DamkerngT. I feel the same way.

Anonymous

I think when people talk about fish meat, they tend to say fish by itself, the same way people talk about chicken meat or cow meat.

Anonymous

Um, I meant: the same way people talk about chicken meat or cow meat as chicken or cow.

Damkerng T.

nods

CowperKettle

@snailplane "Mecheny" or "mechenny" (marked). Marked on its own has one "n", but "marked with colors", "nn"

Good morning!

Damkerng T.

What if someone wants to differentiate the senses of two things, both come from fish, say, fish oil, and fish meat? (Maybe most speakers will simply say "fish oil and fish".)

Good morning!

@CowperKettle Was it someone's name?

CowperKettle

04:02

@DamkerngT. no, it's an adjective (or a participle, depending on how you use it)

Damkerng T.

Oh!

CowperKettle

It's Russian!

Damkerng T.

> In Siberia, on [sic] such creature became known as Mecheny, meaning the Marked One.

CowperKettle

"one"

Damkerng T.

Hehe! A typo on that site!

CowperKettle

04:03

You got the meaning allright, "Mecheny" is a good nickname.

It's a masculine adjective, so it fits well to that creature.

Damkerng T.

nods

I'm not sure about the sense of this "marked", though.

CowperKettle

Criminals have nicknames between them like that. "Gorbaty" (the hunchbacked one)

Damkerng T.

Easily noticeable, perhaps?

CowperKettle

No. Someone who carries marks on his body.

Damkerng T.

Oh! I see!

CowperKettle

04:06

Or, metaphorically, someone who is "chosen" and "marked" to distinguish him from others.

Damkerng T.

nods

CowperKettle

In science, we use "mechenye atomy" (marked atoms)

Radioactive tracer

A radioactive tracer, or radioactive label, is a chemical compound in which one or more atoms have been replaced by a radioisotope so by virtue of its radioactive decay it can be used to explore the mechanism of chemical reactions by tracing the path that the radioisotope follows from reactants to products. Radiolabeling is thus the radioactive form of isotopic labeling. Radioisotopes of hydrogen, carbon, phosphorus, sulphur, and iodine have been used extensively to trace the path of biochemical reactions. A radioactive tracer can also be used to track the distribution of a substance within a natural...

Damkerng T.

A-ha!

CowperKettle

In English, "radioactive tracers"

The word derives from "metka" (a mark)

and the verb "metit" (to mark something with a mark)

"Bog shelmy metit" (God stamps his mark on the evil man, a proverb)

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Sounds like a good plot for a novel or something. :P

"The marked one has to finish off 108 demons before he will be allowed to pass the Heaven's Gate to join his lover once again."

CowperKettle

04:14

nods

2

Q: Are articles used before titles of nouns?

Are articles used before titles of nouns? Example: Take the last date from the/none DataStatus table. Take the last date from the/none Address table.

articles

"before proper nouns serving as noun adjuncts" is more like it

Damkerng T.

nods -- or being used attributively.

CowperKettle

BBL!

Nihilist_Frost

04:56

0

Q: Which is the right pronunciation of the name "Jesus" in English?

First of all I'm asking this question. Because, I had always pronounced the name Jesus a little different than the way I was corrected by my niece a couple days ago. Therefore, I would like to get the right way of saying this once for all. Well here is what I had always said: "sheezus" Here is ...

pronunciation

pretty much phonology cleanup...

Damkerng T.

^_^

Welcome back! @Nihilist_Frost

CowperKettle

05:31

> While this certainly could refer to a past desire that I no longer have, it is much more probable that I am using the past polite form. This is common in many modal verbs.

1

A: "Tom wants (wanted) you to pick him up" - which tense to use?

I disagree with the above interpretations of the sense of this phrase. Although on a superficial level wants is in the present tense and wanted is in the past tense, there is an important shade of meaning that has nothing to do with the tense. Consider the following phrase: I wanted to see ...

Just noticed this answer.

But Katya there in the comments disagrees.

BBL

Damkerng T.

I think using the past tense to make a request or a sentence less direct (and thus, more polite) do exist. Then again, I agree with Catija that it's not, or at least would not be, the case in the OP's example.

In the end, I think it's very context dependent.

Damkerng T.

05:53

Danny Elfman - The Little Things (Wanted Soundtrack)

►

Eight years already!

I remember that the language in the movie blew me away. (I happened to watched its unrated version.)

CowperKettle

06:09

1

Q: "In English literature" or" In the English literature"?

Do we ever say, " In the English literature" ? Is it correct? For example: "Hamlet" is a classic play in the English literature. or "Hamlet" is a classic play in English literature.

definite-article

A question that is simple on the outside. However, "in the English literature" is also in use.

@DamkerngT. What is the name of the movie?

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Wanted!

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. The rating is not that high on IMDB

Damkerng T.

(Oops, I made a briano in my sentence up there. :-)

@CowperKettle Hah! -- checking...

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. Let him who is without that sin among us cast the first downvote.

Damkerng T.

That's a little surprise. I thought at least it could've made a seven.

Hehe!

Maybe most reviewers want something more "realistic" (like the Avengers franchise? :P).

CowperKettle

06:20

Who knows? (0:

BBL!

Nihilist_Frost

I drop out a lot from ELL due to losing interest in answering certain questions

that get out of my expertise.

Damkerng T.

Aww... I understand. I'm sure that you can answer virtually all ELL questions, though.

CowperKettle

Sir, I've never seen a more comprehensive answer to a question. Your English is word perfect. I bow to the Master. I hope everyone on this site upvotes your answer. — Cathy Gartaganis 9 mins ago

blush

Nah, everyone will upvote the answer about the hard-boiled egg instead.

It's hard to beat.

Hi, @Nihilist_Frost!

BBL!

Anonymous

corpus.byu.edu/coca/?c=coca&q=47727015 ← I wonder how crab meat ended up at the top of this list.

Anonymous

I would say thank you to you but the site tells me not to. I look forward to your answer. — Yukatan 18 hours ago

Anonymous

06:34

This is an amusing comment, in a way.

Anonymous

Thank you is a performative utterance, that is, you thank someone by saying thank you.

Anonymous

You perform the act by saying the words.

Damkerng T.

@snailplane LOL

Anonymous

"I would say thank you to you but the site tells me not to" makes the OP's gratitude just as clear, so it has more or less the same effect.

Anonymous

So in a way, they're thanking the answerer by saying they won't thank them :-)

CowperKettle

06:36

(0:

Anonymous

And then moments later:

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

Anonymous

thank you for the effort, nevertheless — Yukatan 17 hours ago

Anonymous

The OP thanked the answerer anyway!

Anonymous

I'm lukewarm on the SE ideal of never thanking anyone, personally.

CowperKettle

06:37

Reminded me of a old joke about some gentleman writing a note saying "as a gentleman I cannot use certain words to describe your behaviour, but you, being not a gentleman, will understand what words I mean anyway".

Anonymous

@CowperKettle Haha, yes!

CowperKettle

(0:

BBL!

Damkerng T.

2

A: Meaning of "gloss on the principle?"

In your passage the fundamental principle is implied to be a face-to-face meeting or nonpostal arrangement when agreeing to a transaction. However since the postal system was by all accounts sufficiently reliable and prompt in certain circumstances transactions by post were allowed ...

Huh? This answer got another vote after I posted my answer!

speechless

IMHO, it's blatantly wrong, even though it sounds like something correct.

Not sure whether a learner or a native speaker cast that second vote.

I don't know. Maybe my ability to read a legal text is lower than his.

Of the three possible alternatives (out of context):

> a) justify a gloss on the fundamental principle = justify this glossing over act on the fundamental principle

> b) justify a gloss on the fundamental principle = justify [ a gloss ] based on the fundamental principle

> c) justify a gloss on the fundamental principle = justify [ a gloss on the fundamental principle ]

a) is the unlikeliest one to me.

Damkerng T.

07:21

1

A: What's the difference between "at its time" or "of its time"?

It was far more popular than other similar books published in its time. It was the most controversial book of its time. It was published in 1921 and was not an expensive book at the time, but owing to the small number of copies produced, and its subsequent notoriety, it is now impossible to fi...

Prepositions are always hard to explain, so maybe the best answers to preposition questions are best by examples rather than in long explanations. Still, I wish we knew how to explain them better than that.

CowperKettle

07:56

> it made me want to cry.
no one had seen him since.
it made me feel uneasy.
no one had seen him.
the thought made me smile.
the pain was unbearable.
the crowd was silent.
the man called out.
the old man said.
the man asked.

Guess what that is, without googling?

Damkerng T.

Some part of it sounds unfamiliar, but I really have no idea.

CowperKettle

> The method, revealed in an unpublished paper, was to present two sentences from the books and then ask the machine to link the two with a pre-determined number of phrases in a progressive manner which makes sense narratively. In the example above, the sentences in bold are the two presented to the machine, the others were created by AI.

Damkerng T.

Oh! I wonder which was made by AI and which was predetermined.

CowperKettle

> The tide rises.
The tide falls.
The skylight darkens.
The kurlew calls.
Along the sea-sands damp and brown.
The traveller hastens towards the town.

That was composed by another neural network, back in the XIX century.

> And the tide rises.
The tide falls.

@DamkerngT. THe first and the last sentences were a human input

Damkerng T.

08:12

Interesting. Now it makes sense.

(Because it didn't quite make sense!)

CowperKettle

I wonder if we input "the tide rises" and "the tide falls" into Google AI in about 2030, will it compose a poem better than Longfellow

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

CowperKettle

BBL!

Damkerng T.

See you later. Thanks for the poem(?)!

johnchae

08:33

Afternoon guys ^^

@Araucaria I'm so sorry I took this long to respond, was busy preparing my exam. Anyway, I've got my answer submitted here: linguistics.stackexchange.com/a/17576/13158

If you need some more clarification, please ping me and I will answer it here :)

Also @DamkerngT., @snailplane, about the topic related to "than that of". I think I did a great job on explaining to the class. All the questions today are what I've asked you guys in this chat, so I think answered all of them well enough to fix their misconception. And as I predicted, the teacher thought "that" stands for "the exam" as she questioned me gently why "the exam" there does not work! Then I gave her the example you gave me @DamkerngT. "Economy or shape"...

So yeah, it was really good to see the class, including the teacher have their misconceptions fixed :)

Damkerng T.

Yay!

johnchae

08:48

^^!

Thank you guys so much!

Damkerng T.

You're welcome. I'm just happy for you!

johnchae

A lot of them asked me about their "logic", which based on some book written by a Vietnamese teacher "You can only compare someone/something with someone/something..." and I just simply asked them back "Then tell me what do you think about "He's better than that" or "He stayed longer than 6 weeks"..." Then there was a silent moment :p

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

johnchae

The teacher seemed to be curious as well about that :)

Damkerng T.

Sometimes the right question is the best answer. :-)

johnchae

08:56

True that!

After class, I was asked to have a drink with like 10 people, to discuss further with them about it :)

Damkerng T.

:D

Damkerng T.

09:42

37

Q: What's the meaning of "break your legs"?

One of my friend told me to break my legs before entering the examination hall...I was confused with her words! How am I supposed to sit for the exam if i broke my legs? Or maybe is it kind of idioms/phrases?

phrase-meaning idiom-meaning

I wonder if "break your legs" could really be used to mean break a leg.

If the speaker (the OP's friend) is Thai, "break your legs" could have a perfect meaning.

(Basically similar to "shop till you drop".)

Oops! I misread the examination hall as entertainment!

Never mind my thought! :D

(Break your pencil(s) could be a hilarious expression in Thai, though. :-)

Færd

Hi! Is Araucaria a feminine noun?

Damkerng T.

@Færd Hmm... I don't think English really has such a concept (except for a few nouns).

Færd

I remember some folk thought him a female because of his name.

Damkerng T.

I was one of them. :P

For some reason, -ia in a name makes the name sound feminine to me.

Færd

Mhm.

Damkerng T.

09:52

I guess our languages would influence our expectation.

Another ELL username that I got it wrong for months is nima.

Færd

That's a Farsi name!

Or should I say Iranian.

Damkerng T.

Again, for some reason, -a in a name makes it sound feminine to me.

@Færd nods -- Some time later, nima told us that he is male!

Færd

I don't know many names ending in -a, so I don't share that instinct.

Damkerng T.

BTW, nim in Thai means "soft" and was a typical nickname for girls a few decades ago.

@Færd Martha is the first name in my mind!

Færd

Maria.

Damkerng T.

09:55

Marsha, Bertha, etc.

Færd

Maybe we should look for something in Latin.

Damkerng T.

nods

Færd

> The first declension is comprised mostly of feminine nouns and deals a lot with the letter "a" as an ending...

CowperKettle

Good day, Fard!

Færd

@DamkerngT. latindictionary.wikidot.com/learn:nouns-1

Hi Cowper!

Damkerng T.

09:58

@Færd nods -- I guess it's related.

CowperKettle

> Agricola agricolam alterum vidit.

Almost like in Russian. "Vidit" is "he/she sees"

Damkerng T.

Oh, how could I forget Anna?! Anna also sounds definitely feminine for me.

Færd

And nanna definitely sounds feminine to me!

Damkerng T.

Oh! But not nima?

Færd

No :). The nanna that means grandmother. Is it a proper noun too?

Damkerng T.

10:02

I don't know! I haven't heard Nanna before.

Færd

@CowperKettle Agricola is feminine?

What does it mean?

Hi Araucaria!

CowperKettle

@Færd A farmer; that's from your URL

Færd

Huh.

CowperKettle

> The sentence in fact translates to "The farmer saw the other farmer."

Damkerng T.

Hmm... cola sounds masculine, I think. But koalas are cute. :P

Færd

10:04

@Araucaria, is Araucaria a feminine noun?

And hi!

Araucaria

@johnchae Thanks for the help answer :-) I have one more question for you, if you have time! What about this type of conditional: "Whether Bertha accepted the job or not, she is crazy" and "I don't know whether Bertha accepted the job or not"? Is "whether Bertha accepted the job or not" the same in those two sentences in Vietnamese?

CowperKettle

OMG there are 5 declensions in Latin. Russian has only 3

Hi, @Araucaria! Good day!

Færd

Of gender?

in English Language & Usage, Mar 10 at 3:37, by snailboat

Oh, no. Well, this is just my personal opinion. Different people can say different things. I think Good day! sounds a bit antiquated.

in English Language & Usage, Mar 10 at 3:37, by snailboat

But a full sentence like Have a great afternoon! or Have a good day! such seems genuine and friendly to me.

Araucaria

@Færd No! Araucaria was a pen name for a famous cross-word setter in Britain. He wrote very clever and very witty cross-words for The Guardian newspaper. He was a humanitarian and a little left wing. He had a cult following over here. There is a pun in his name. "Araucaria" is the Latin word for a Monkey-puzzle tree.

@Færd And of course that is what a cross-word is; a puzzle for bald monkeys! I stole that name because he is an idol of mine, and of course that's what linguistics is; a puzzle about monkeys!

@Færd And so for the record, I'm a bloke.

Færd

Thanks! I remember some folk thought you a female because of your name!

CowperKettle

10:13

My nickname on a local Russian forum is Vivekananda, and bicyclists get suprised then I pedal along to the meeting place, to have a ride in a big company, to see a guy.

Because it ends in "a", it sounds like a feminine name for (to?) any Russian.

Færd

Interesting. In Arabic too, an adjective ending in "a" is feminine.

Roughly speaking.

Araucaria

@Færd I think maybe typical first names for people in English ending in -a are female, but there are boys ones too: Joshua, Luca, Ezra, Asa and some Irish ones that we use as well like Dara.

@CowperKettle Howdy, CK

!

CowperKettle

Come to think of it, a lot of Russian male names have forms ending in "a"

Færd

Well I didn't know many English names!

CowperKettle

But these "a" ending forms are a bit soft. Like "Vova" for "Vladimir"

Araucaria

10:18

@CowperKettle Is Sacha a Russian name? (did we borrow it from Russian?)

CowperKettle

You would call your close friend "Vova", but not your boss.

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle If Vivekananda were in Sanskrit it would have a perfect meaning! -- bliss of solitude.

CowperKettle

@Araucaria Yes, "Sasha" is a variation for "Alexander". Similarly, you would not call your teacher in school "Sasha" but "Alexander Sergeyevich", with the patronimic

@DamkerngT. nice! I never knew that! I chose a good nickname then. I chose it because Vivekananda also had diabetes, and I was reading a lot about India at that period in my life. My sister too was preparing to go to India.

Araucaria

@CowperKettle Ah, we use it like a full blown boys name: like this guy, for example.

CowperKettle

@Araucaria Yes, I know that guy. (0:

Damkerng T.

10:20

@CowperKettle Oh! It's an Indian name? That meaning is quite possible, then.

Færd

Here it says that Sasha relates to Alexandra, and to the Persian one Eskandar: behindthename.com/name/sacha

CowperKettle

Swami Vivekananda

Swami Vivekananda (Bengali: স্বামী বিবেকানন্দ) Bengali: [ʃami bibekanɒnɖo], Shāmi Bibekānondo; 12 January 1863 – 4 July 1902), born Narendranath Datta (Bengali: নরেন্দ্রনাথ দত্ত) (Bengali: [nɔrend̪ro nat̪ʰ d̪ɔt̪t̪o]), was an Indian Hindu monk, a chief disciple of the 19th-century Indian mystic Ramakrishna. He was a key figure in the introduction of the Indian philosophies of Vedanta and Yoga to the Western world and is credited with raising interfaith awareness, bringing Hinduism to the status of a major world religion during the late 19th century. He was a major force in the revival of Hinduism...

Damkerng T.

Nice!

CowperKettle

Yes, an interesting guy.

India has a holiday in his honor.

Anonymous

There's a prominent Russian linguist named Alexander Vovin, and he goes by Sasha.

CowperKettle

10:22

@snailplane Nice! My brother's name is Sasha

Alexander Shulgin

Alexander Theodore "Sasha" Shulgin (June 17, 1925 – June 2, 2014) was an American medicinal chemist, biochemist, pharmacologist, psychopharmacologist, and author. He is credited with introducing MDMA (ecstasy) to psychologists in the late 1970s for psychopharmaceutical use and for the discovery, synthesis and personal bioassay of over 230 psychoactive compounds for their psychedelic and entactogenic potential. In 1991 and 1997, he and his wife Ann Shulgin authored the books PIHKAL and TIHKAL (standing for Phenethylamines and Tryptamines I Have Known And Loved), which extensively described their...

A famous chemist

Færd

Sasha sounds nice in my ear.

CowperKettle

@snailplane "Vovin" means "belonging to Vova (=Vladimir)", "of Vova"

The "in" ending indicates possession or attribution.

For instance, you can interpret "Lenin" as "Belonging to Lena"

"Lenin muzh" means "Lena's husband"

So "Vovin" tells us that the family name started with some prominent guy named Vladimir (Vova)

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle That's good to know!

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. Yes, there was a song based around this. A rather lame pun. "Lenin! Lenin! Lenin muzh!"

Ленин муж.и

►

With a Lenin impersonator dancing under hard rock music

Lenin impersonators are a feature of central Moscow, you can take photos with them. They walk around. (0:

Damkerng T.

The thumbnail looks funny!

(I can't play the video at the moment.)

CowperKettle

10:29

Some years ago a Lenin impersonator had a fight with a Stalin impersonator in a Moscow street.

Damkerng T.

Reminds me of Elmo vs. Spider-Man in a late night show!

CowperKettle

(0:

0

Q: What is the meaning of "But no last trump" in following sentence?

Bang, thud, and clank. Grim sounds to preface an evening’s amusement. But no last trump could have so galvanized the weary attendants on Thespis and Terpsichore standing in patient column of four before the gates of promise. Here and there, of course, there was no column. What is the meaning...

meaning metaphor

I wish him luck in untangling that sentence.

> Alexander Vovin earned his M.A. in structural and applied linguistics from the Saint Petersburg State University in 1983, and his Ph.D. in historical Japanese linguistics and premodern Japanese literature from the same university in 1987, with a doctoral dissertation on the Hamamatsu Chūnagon Monogatari (ca. 1056).

I believe you mentioned him before, Snails.

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle :D

CowperKettle

Monogatari

Monogatari (物語) is a literary form in traditional Japanese literature, an extended prose narrative tale comparable to the epic. Monogatari is closely tied to aspects of the oral tradition, and almost always relates a fictional or fictionalized story, even when retelling a historical event. Many of the great works of Japanese fiction, such as the Genji monogatari and the Heike monogatari are in this monogatari form. The form was prominent around the 9th to 15th centuries, reaching a peak between the 10th and 11th centuries. According to the Fūyō Wakashū (1271), at least 198 monogatari existed by...

> His most current and ambitious project involves the complete academic translation into English of the Man'yōshū (ca. 759), the earliest and the largest premodern Japanese poetic anthology, alongside the critical edition of the original text and commentaries.

He is cool

> More than 150 species of grasses and trees are included in 1500 entries of Man'yōshū. More than 30 of the species are found at the Man'yō Botanical Garden (万葉植物園 Manyō shokubutsu-en?) in Japan, collectively placing them with the name and associated tanka for visitors to read and observe, reminding them of the ancient time in which the references were made.

Great idea.

> "With many a curve my banks I fret
By many a field and fallow,
And many a fairy foreland set
With willow-weed and mallow."

I had to look up 'willow-weed' and 'mallow' but forgot how they look anyway.

Damkerng T.

Every time I see monogatari, I think of Katanagatari!

CowperKettle

10:41

@DamkerngT. You're lucky. I think of stereogatari.

Anonymous

That makes sense! Katanagatari is a blend of katana and monogatari. :-)

CowperKettle

"Cutting poetry"?

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Hey, it's on Soundcloud.

@CowperKettle It's a story about "sword".

There are lots of swords in the story. There are ultimate 12 of them, but the ultimate of ultimate swords (i.e., the last sword) is a human. ;-)

CowperKettle

1

A: What is the meaning of "But no last trump" in following sentence?

It's origin is a biblical quotation. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:52 What’s The So Called Last Trump? Most post- trib believers equa...

I never knew that.

Damkerng T.

I suspected that but wasn't sure.

(Because besides "trump", "four" and "gate" are there.)

CowperKettle

10:46

Nice!

Damkerng T.

And I heard of the term the second coming in an anime. :P

CowperKettle

(0:

Damkerng T.

See, I learned a lot of English words through anime. I'm not sure why it's so, but it's so. :P

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. Probably because you love anime!

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Probably! But instead of learning Japanese words from them, I learned English words!

CowperKettle

10:50

(the picture is a combination of the Carl! meme and a famous Russian paining titled "Got an F grade again!")

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle It looks like a painting, the the man on the right, -- Ahh!

CowperKettle

Low Marks Again

Low Marks Again (Russian: Опять двойка, translated as Grade D, Again) is a painting by Fyodor Pavlovich Reshetnikov, created in 1952. Due to its realistic plot, the painting was used in the Soviet school curriculum as a topic for writing an essay. The painting was well known to the Soviet public. == The Plot == In the painting we see a family that meets a boy who came home from school with the failing grade D. The boy looks like a loser, his clothes are unbuttoned, with wrinkled coat, pants, black shoes - a casual look. In his right hand he holds a tied bag that seems to have served as a ball and...

We had to write moronic school essays about that picture, so everybody knows it.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

CowperKettle

> At the dinner table, the older sister is doing homework. She stood up, looking reproachfully at her sloppy brother. Her posture, the turn of her head, her look - all testify that she does not approve of the behavior of this loser.

"of this loser" -- who on Earth wrote that Wikipedia article ^_^

Damkerng T.

:D

CowperKettle

10:55

I guess some Russian wrote it, and made some fun doing it.

BBL!

Araucaria

@johnchae How about: "Bertha có chấp nhận lời đề nghị đó hay không, cô ấy thật là điên rồ" will that work?

Araucaria

11:13

@CowperKettle That article is crazy!

Færd

Either German is so damn easy or Duolingo just keeps flattering me.

CowperKettle

@Araucaria It should be preserved for posterity! I've just reread it, and it looks exactly like a typical essay required for churning out by schoolkids.

I love this:

> Seeing his sad but [flushed from the cold] face, she realized that the boy played plenty enough on the street and he is not really worried about [received] low marks.

Teachers of English in Russia often correct pupils to use prepositioned adjectival phrases.

Instead of "of-phrases' and post-positional adjectives.

Araucaria

@CowperKettle I know, it's heart-breakingly bad and hysterically funny at the same time! (the article, not the picture)

CowperKettle

2

A: If we remove 'the' in "Gone with the Wind"

"To have wind" is to be flatulent so I'm afraid I parse "Gone with wind" as "Went while farting".

Araucaria

@CowperKettle Where di the man in that other picture appear from?

CowperKettle

11:21

@Araucaria It's a meme very famous in Russia right now, the "Carl!" meme.

If you're saying something to somebody and want to appear exasperated, you say, like, "But it will be only 10C tomorrow. 10 degrees, Carl! How do you want us to go swimming in that river?"

Araucaria

@CowperKettle Ah right! :)

Færd

@CowperKettle The problem with that sentence is the adjectives?

CowperKettle

@Færd Yes, and "realized", I guess.

Færd

@CowperKettle Haha!

@CowperKettle Should be found out?

CowperKettle

@Færd I would have used "realises"

Færd

11:26

Maybe I should go check the context.

CowperKettle

- "I will finish you in the(?) spring"
Term Paper.doc: - "But it's already spring, Carl!"

Færd

Poor Carl!

@Araucaria So was Farsi of any help to your thesis?

Araucaria

@Færd Yes, it was.Very much so. So one part of my thesis basically says that cross-linguistically, when interrogative clauses are used as adjuncts, they receive a conditional interpretation. Whether or not that's true, the fact that 'interrogative clauses' are used in so many languages as conditional antecedents does seem to heavily suggest that English antecedents are - syntactically - interrogative clauses.

@Færd And also that interrogative if is the same if as conditional if.

Færd

@Araucaria But Farsi defers from English in that.

That was what I tried to make clear.

CowperKettle

*differs

Færd

11:35

Here and in the following messages.

@CowperKettle Oh, Thanks.

Araucaria

@Færd I don't think so. I'm not saying that all language use interrogative clauses to make conditionals. I'm saying that whenever interrogative clauses are used as adjuncts (as opposed to sentences or subjects/complements) they have a conditional interpretation. That does seem to be the case in Farsi, to the extent that you have two constructions where you use interrogative clauses as adjuncts!

CowperKettle

@Araucaria Could you provide an example? I'm curious whether it's the same in Russian.

> I'm curious [whether it's the same in Russian]. - conditional?

Araucaria

@Færd But I completely understand that that's not the typical way of constructing conditionals in Farsi!

Færd

@Araucaria Can you give me an example of such an adjunct in English?

Just to make sure I understand the word.

Or better, those two constructions that you mentioned, if it's not any problem.

Araucaria

@Færd Oh, so an adjunct in H&P's (CaGEL) grammar, is an "adverbial" in traditional grammar. So in Whether Bertha is qualified or not, she is a good candidate, the string Whether Bertha is qualified or not is an adjunct modifying the main sentence she is a good candidate. But in I don't know whether Bertha is qualified or not it is a Complement of the verb know.

Færd

11:44

@Araucaria I see. That can be adjusted to work in Farsi too.

Araucaria

@Færd So in your example inja bashad ya na is an adjunct in "این‌جا باشد یا نه، نمی‌توانم ببینمش "

Færd

Yes.

Araucaria

@Færd Yes, I think so. But your data supports something else I've noticed ...

CowperKettle

"Имеет ли Берта нужные навыки или не имеет, она все равно подходящий кандидат". The same construction.

I can stamp a question sign at the end just before the comma, and it will work as a question.

Araucaria

@CowperKettle Can you use "Имеет ли Берта нужные навыки или не имеет" as a subordinate interrogative clause?

@CowperKettle Ah! great!

CowperKettle

11:46

@Araucaria As a subordinate one? I forgot what that is.

Araucaria

@CowperKettle Like "I don't know whether Bertha is qualified or not"

CowperKettle

As a standalone interrogative, it works, althoug it has a tinge of a rhetorical question due to the "li" particle.

Færd

@Araucaria So in saying whenever interrogative clauses are used as adjuncts they have a conditional interpretation, you're just concerned with the interpretation or the similarity in construction too? Because that seem too general to me.

CowperKettle

@Araucaria Ah. Yep, it works.

Araucaria

@Færd Both, but with regard to this particular issue, I'm not worried too much about those conditional constructions that don't use interrogative clauses. There are many other ways of doing that. Many languages don't even have a word for if!

@Færd In what way too general?

Færd

11:50

In that there are interrogative adjuncts that don't have a conditional construction.

I mean, they're not normally used in conditional sentences in Farsi.

Araucaria

@Færd Ah, that's very interesting, I don't know of any. Could you give me an exmple?

.. of an interrogative clause used as an adjunct?

Færd

Excuse me. I'm not very fast at thinking in English.

Araucaria

@CowperKettle Great! Could you give me that sentence in Russian too?

CowperKettle

@Araucaria Я не знаю, имеет ли Берта нужные навыки или не имеет.

Araucaria

@Færd No worries, you're much faster than I am thinking in Farsi!!!

:D

CowperKettle

11:54

Russian uses commas lavishly, they are here and there.

Araucaria

@CowperKettle Do we need the comma after знаю?

CowperKettle

@Araucaria Yes.

Araucaria

@CowperKettle Wow, you answered my question before I asked it!

CowperKettle

Yes, because I know that English speakers are baffled with the way Russians use commas everywhere, even when writing in English.

When you see someone on the web writing "I don't know, what has happened to you", chances are they are Russian.

Færd

@Araucaria So another equivalent translation of Whether she's here or not, I cannot see her is چه اینجا باشد چه نه، نمیتوانم ببینمش. The interrogative clause (as you named it) is چه اینجا باشد چه نه, which is always used as an interrogative calause, not in normal conditional sentences.

But it does have a conditional meaning. To the extent that I'd say it's a special type of conditional sentence in Farsi.

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