Language Overflow

Damkerng T.

00:12

@snailplane Good afternoon!

Damkerng T.

00:27

@Færd Yay!

Færd

01:08

@CowperKettle I guess it's the dangling modifier problem.

@snailplane I guess there really are people who believe Haydn was a greater composer.

Damkerng T.

01:50

0

Q: USE OF "TOO" AND "ENOUGH" Which goes better In the sentence: I didn't know him ......., but I was still upset when he died?

I found this sentence "I didn't know him ......., but I was still upset when he died" so I have to choose between these two answer: A. too well B. good enough According with the results of the test it says that the correct answer is "too well" but I don't understand very good the rule in this ...

grammar

This one was hard for me, too because I was hearing "good" being used in conversations as an adverb. It appears to be, when used as an adverb, "good" is informal or non-standard. — user170461 8 mins ago

Very true.

Which makes me wonder about "standard English".

I mean we all seem to know what standard English is, but how many of us can define what it really is?

If someone said "How are you?" to me and I replied "Good, thanks!", was I using non-standard English?

Also things like, "Are we good?" "Yeah, we're good."

If that's non-standard, what should we use instead in standard English? (Because I can't think of any!)

("Are we all right?" sounds a bit funny to me. :P)

CowperKettle

02:49

Oh, no. The production of the Obamka ice-cream has been shut down.

Good morning all.

Damkerng T.

Morning!

CowperKettle

0

Q: the difference between ''come of '' and.'' come from''

1/He came of a rich family. 2/He came from a rich family . Which is correct ? came of or came from ? Explain to me.

word-usage

Quaint questions come of ELU SE.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

Catija

@CowperKettle Interesting... my first thought on seeing that question was "Why is ELU migrating crap here?" ... and then I asked a meta question about it.

CowperKettle

I see.. (0:

No soap radio

"No soap, radio" is a traditional punch line for a prank joke. The prank is that the punch line has no relation to the body of the joke – that is, actually funny – but participants in the prank pretend otherwise. The intent is to either trick someone unfamiliar with the prank into laughing along as if they "get it", or ridicule them for not understanding. The first known reference to this form of joke was in the late 1940s. The punch line is known for its use as a basic sociological and psychological experiment, specifically relating to mob mentality and the pressure to conform. The basic setup...

Damkerng T.

03:16

Haha! I think there are a few similar phrases used among Thai comedians, e.g., คนขับรถเมล์ชื่ออะไร (What's the bus driver's name?). :-)

I remember that it started out from math jokes.

It could go like this (the original puzzle was from algebra.com/algebra/homework/equations/…):

> A girl went to school & the teacher asked how old are you? She replied I don't know, bt I know that I'm half my mother's age. The teacher asked ok how old is your mother? She said I don't know but I know that my Dad is 5 yrs older than my mother. Teacher, how old is yor dad? She said I don't know but I know that if we add our ages the answer is 100 yrs...

> What's the bus driver's name?

CowperKettle

I recall a joke somewhat touching upon that. A math teacher aks a boy in the class: a half of a violet fridge is equal in price to two pairs of our school guard's felt boots. If we assume our classroom's average academic performance to be "x", what is my current age?

The boy replies: why, you're 24.

- "How did you calculate that?"

- "I'm twelve, and my mother calls me half-wit".

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

CowperKettle

(0:

In Russian it is "half an idiot", so the joke is more logical.

Damkerng T.

Oh, I see!

CowperKettle

The teacher is double the age, hence, a full idiot.

Damkerng T.

03:29

That would make it sound even funnier!

CowperKettle

(0:

There's a whole series of Russian jokes about Vovochka, an idealised schoolboy who does nothing but dorks around and gets the goat of Marya Ivanovna, his teacher.

Vovochka is hypocoristic for Vladimir

Damkerng T.

Oh, the jokes use such specific names?

Ahhh

CowperKettle

Yes, Vovochka is the hero of this "series of jokes"

There's an old kitsch song in Russian, "Vovochka", a music video from the 1990s

Specifically made kitchy to be fun

Пеп-си - Вовочка

►

Damkerng T.

The way those bouquets move is funny! :D

I wonder if 9% rejected is okay.

(in migration)

Anonymous

04:27

It doesn't seem terrible.

Anonymous

It's not ideal, but if you look at it the other way around, it means we're accepting 91% of migrations.

Anonymous

Granted, we might have lower standards for "accepting" than we should.

Damkerng T.

I can't explain why, but I find most migrated questions uninteresting.

Maybe they just share some traits with the ELL questions that are uninteresting in my opinion.

For example,

0

Q: "Do they not ever learn" or "Don't they ever learn?"

My students told me that they are supposed to write "Do they not ever learn" instead of "Don't they ever learn". I suspect that all of them misunderstood something in the grammar class. Or am I mistaken? Can anyone help out?

negation

I wonder about the OP's thoughts, but the most important points relating to grammar were already discussed in comments before the migration.

The question implies that they're a teacher, but it's unclear whether they're a native speaker or not, or whether they teach the grammar class themselves.

"I suspect that all of them misunderstood something in the grammar class. Or am I mistaken?" Mistaken what? Mistaken in suspecting that or mistaken the grammar rules? -- I wish they'd already written about that.

(I think I was thinking that it was "unclear what you are asking".)

Student

04:54

Good day @DamkerngT. @CowperKettle :)

CowperKettle

Good day, @Student!

Damkerng T.

Hi!

Student

:)

Damkerng T.

This is weird:

> A Beginners Guide to Writing by Kevin Ramsey

> (via: ell.stackexchange.com/questions/48774/…)

"With an intransitive verb, objects and complements are included ..." -- Huh?

I wonder if this makes sense in English:

Hmm... this is hard.

It's literally put/set one's mind to it, but the phrase has a different connotation from the one in Thai.

But let's try it anyway.

> Whoever will vie (for whatever) to whatever extent [ Jay doesn't put his mind to it ].

[ Jay doesn't care ] doesn't sound right (even though it's very close).

[ Jay never pays attention to it ] suggests something different! As if he's a careless or mindless person.

BTW, the Thai phrase is ใครจะแก่งแย่งชิงดีกันไปถึงไหนก็ตาม เจไม่เคยเก็บมาใส่ใจ.

A-ha! This should work:

[ Jay never bothers ].

> Whoever will vie (for whatever) to whatever extent [ Jay never bothers ].

Damkerng T.

05:58

> "They [Thai people] smile happily, apologetically, hopelessly, nervously, just to name a few. You interpret the smile the same way someone reads a book--its meaning comes from the context."

> A New Life Journal by Jane Cafarella

So true. Very true. Couldn't be more true! :D

No wonder I so fondly use my smileys!

CowperKettle

06:13

> "They [Russian people] swear happily, apologetically, hopelessly, nervously, just to name a few. You interpret the swear the same way someone reads a book--its meaning comes from the context."

Damn!

Damkerng T.

Haha!

(I meant "smile", BTW. :P)

Damkerng T.

06:47

1

Q: Which one is the right sentence structure?

Generally I've learned the former, but I want to know if the latter is possible. If either way is possible, is there any difference in meaning? Part of what makes watching a movie is getting to see actors bring characters to life. (to see~~ : verbid + object + objective complement) Part of what...

grammar sentence-structure

A very interesting question.

See covers several sense.

I tried to read the second one (the one with that) the same way as the first one, but it sounded very, very awkward to me.

(If I read that see as understand, then the second one is fine. Isn't that strange?)

I'd better leave this one to others.

Damkerng T.

08:41

Word of the Day: anathema

Anonymous

10:24

@DamkerngT. You're right. That isn't very carefully written.

Anonymous

That book is probably best ignored.

Damkerng T.

@snailplane It claims that it quotes The Longman Handbook for Writers and Readers. I'm not sure if that handbook really explains it that way!

(I can't do full-text searches in that book on Google Books. I can do only snippet searches.)

BTW, good morning!

Anonymous

11:35

Good morning! :-)

Damkerng T.

An hour later!

Good morning once again! :D

Damkerng T.

12:14

Ah, hello! @Araucaria

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Hi there :)

Damkerng T.

I gave it a little more thought and concluded that Thai has two main cases similar to your conditional protases.

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Tell me more!

Damkerng T.

One we've already discussed: (lit.) Pass or not pass, he's not going to university.

Pass or not pass can be used as a question on its own. (Pass or not pass?)

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Yes,

Damkerng T.

12:17

I named this case "bare yes-no interrogative clause". :P

Araucaria

:D

Damkerng T.

Another is actually quite similar to your whoever.

Araucaria

Yup?

Damkerng T.

I picked, unfortunately, a word that's too idiomatic, so it doesn't work when it's used in a question.

Araucaria

Oh

Damkerng T.

12:18

To make it work, we need another word (บ้าง). It's more colloquial, but it will work fine in questions.

And it will convey the sense of -ever.

(lit.) Who wants to go บ้าง, Jay won't go.

(lit.) Who wants to go บ้าง? as a question is asking, exhaustively, about the list of everyone who wants to go.

So, it matches whoever in standard English perfectly!

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. is Who wants to go บ้าง? a rhetorical question?

Damkerng T.

It's a real question.

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Oh, even better!

Damkerng T.

Who wants to go บ้าง? implies something like "Anyone who wants to go, please raise your hand!", but it's a real question.

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Ah, I was just about to ask if it meant something like any ...

Damkerng T.

12:24

nods -- but when it's embedded in a sentence such as Who wants to go บ้าง, Jay won't go, it has the sense of -ever.

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. I often think -ever is a bit like wide scope any ...

Damkerng T.

A funny thing is that, we can use several wh-words with one บ้าง in the same sentence to turn all those wh-words into the senses of -ever words!

For example,

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Whoever eats that cake will die is very similar to Anyone who eats that cake will die for example.

@DamkerngT. Ooh that sound interesting ...

Damkerng T.

@Araucaria Yes!

(lit.) Who(ever) wants to do what(ever) when(ever) with who(mever) บ้าง, Jay doesn't care.

After I came up with บ้าง, I realized that I can omit บ้าง, and the sentence still works, if the context allows such an implication!

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. But you need one บ้าง in the sentence, no?

Damkerng T.

12:29

As I've mentioned, Thai is a pro-drop language, so it works (if we choose not to use บ้าง) if such an implication works!

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Ah, so บ้าง is a pronoun maybe? or a fused determiner-head?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I'm not sure what บ้าง is!

Let's see ...

I'm not really sure. It works sort of like any or -ever.

Haha! Our official dictionary lists it as adj. and pron. :-)

I guess they based it on any.

(lit.) Who wants to go บ้าง? and Who wants to go? roughly mean almost the same.

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. does it mean at all?

Damkerng T.

บ้าง makes the request more explicit about an exhaustive answer.

@Araucaria I think at all means something more similar to "if any".

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. I think I understand. Easier to understand than translate I think!

Damkerng T.

12:35

I think so!

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Yes, your right. That's not what we're after.

Thanks @Dam! I've got to go to work now. Will be thinking of your examples!

Damkerng T.

See you around! I may post my answer tomorrow, if possible.

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. That would be brilliant :D

Ciao!

Damkerng T.

:D

o/

CowperKettle

> Check material markings for traceability during cutting

What on earth could that mean O_o

This is from a flange heater checklist.

Damkerng T.

12:47

Does markings mean something like "marks"?

CowperKettle

One of the steps of the quality inspection procedure (of many steps)

@DamkerngT. Dunno.

I'm finding sentences like "Marking check, material traceability" on the web, but these are no less cryptic.

iec.co.il/Suppliers/BZC210034/…

Damkerng T.

"Quality of flame cutting surfaces" -- Hmm... cutting with flame?

Oh, hey, it comes with standards!

DIN 18800-7

CowperKettle

Yep.

Damkerng T.

> As far as I can recall, or find, D1.1 itself does not have a 'requirement' for tracking welder to weld. But D1.8 does as a supplement to D1.1 when required for Seismic Designs. It is 6.13 of D1.8. It calls for marking of all welds with welder's ID mark.

> app.aws.org/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=21351

Not sure if it's in the right direction relating to our discussion. :D

> Numerous project I encounter before we refer on B31.3 and the proejct requirements.
Example;
1.0 Each qualified welder and welding operator shall have an assigned identification symbol approved in the project and if the assigned joint/s number welded in fabrictaion shop or at site.
2.0 Near to the joint/s being weld or welded, the welder symbol/identification is written together with the date when they weld the joint/s.
3.0 Welding process for each welder who done the weld and the WPS used in welding the joint/pipe

Hey, maybe it's in the right direction!

CowperKettle

On a translators' forum, I was told that this means "check that the materials have the requisite markings so that during the cutting stage the workers do not cut the wrong pipes and such"

Damkerng T.

12:54

nods

It's too technical for me anyway.

CowperKettle

A line just higher says "Weld Consumables Test Report"

Probably "welding materials"

Damkerng T.

It seems like DIN 18800-7 enforces the welding such that all welds must be traceable.

(Basically, Who did this?, so if the product got any problem, we'd know who is to blame. :P)

CowperKettle

Nice!

Damkerng T.

I imagine that those weld(ing?) ID marks are called markings.

Oh! It's "welder's ID"!

0

Q: Is the word "may" here is a main verb?How does it come?What does it mean?

I have been taught that "may" is always a "modal verb". Also, what does the word "shell" mean here? (The mentioned sentence comes from a passage about "Fossil Preservation".) Many other processes may after the shell of a clam or snail and enhance its chances for preservation. (Rest of the p...

grammar meaning-in-context

Aww...

I wish it wasn't a typo, because it mentions "snail"!

Ah, I'd better take a break. BBL o/

CowperKettle

BBL!

Araucaria

14:21

@Færd So I've been speaking to another Farsi speaker-unfortunately he can't read or write Farsi in Persian script but has been speaking it since birth (his parents are Persian). He thinks that aghe is both a conditional word and an interrogative subordinator. What do you think?

CowperKettle

16:43

> Metal plugs with taped threads installed in terminal box for shipment.

"taped threads" O_o

Covered in tape for better sealing, or "applied", from the verb "tap"?

Or a typo of "tapered".

meh.

Damkerng T.

I think it's indeed a typo.

Hi! @AlanCarmack

Welcome to the room!

Damkerng T.

17:04

Some interesting examples of see:

> ... when she turned I saw her standing over me with the stick raised.

> ..., when she turned, I saw her face bathed in tears, ...

> When she turned, I saw that she was assessing me.

> When she turned, I saw that she did indeed look like a woman hours away from the delivery room.

> But when she turned I saw that she was running the tip of her tongue along her upper lip, to stop herself from crying.

Are these saws different or the same?

Færd

@Araucaria That and a bunch of other conditional words have been mentioned in my answer as not working as subordinators. I was sure, but still checked in a couple dictionaries and grammars, and even asked for my mom's opinion about it. Nope, it doesn't work like that.

@Araucaria If he was my student (in Farsi literature or grammar) that would earn him a minus.

Side note: That conditional word (اگر) is not romanized as aghe. It's agar or age (/ægær/ or /æge/).

Araucaria

20:27

@Færd As I said he doesn't read or write Farsi, so don't be too hard on him; it's not his fault, he's just trying to be helpful! :-) (and he's a very smart and nice guy - a bit like you!)

@Færd How would you say: "I don’t know if it is sunny today" ? For example if you were stuck in a dungeon and couldn't see whether it was sunny?

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