Language Overflow

Damkerng T.

04:06

[Live] Solar Eclipse 2016 @ Bangkok

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But the best location to view the eclipse was in Indonesia.

Total Solar Eclipse Live from Indonesia

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Damkerng T.

04:18

0

Q: What does "to call" mean in this sentence?

What does call mean in this sentence? Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton won her party's primary in Mississippi, but her battle with Bernie Sanders in Michigan is too close to call.

word-meaning

The question demonstrates why Collins is not at the top of my dictionary list.

I can't find a good definition for this call in Collins.

But in Macmillan, we've got both the phrase and the word (sense 9).

Hi! @GATA, @V.V.

GATA

@DamkerngT. Hi :)

Macmillan and Cambridge are my first choice.

they are simple and less confusing than others

Damkerng T.

Yay! :-)

GATA

@DamkerngT. would you please check this sentence.

Damkerng T.

Okay, what's sentence?

GATA

I've just started my first painting.

or

I am doing my first painting

Damkerng T.

04:25

Hmm... I think you can use either. The latter sounds a bit more colloquial to me.

Anonymous

@GATA I like Macmillan! :-) I like the LDOCE too, but I don't check it very often.

Anonymous

Yeah, they both sound okay to me.

GATA

@snailboat Hi :)

Damkerng T.

Hello, @snailboat! I posted two eclipse videos up there!

GATA

thanks.

Anonymous

04:26

Neat!

Damkerng T.

:D -- I think you'll have the next one (a full eclipse) next year in the US.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Ooh, that's beautiful.

Damkerng T.

@GATA No problem. :D

@snailboat Thanks! It's even more beautiful in Indonesia. :D

0

Q: Differences between "used to" and "would"?

I read somewhere that "used to" usage is for "past habits" and "would" usage is for "past habits and states" and we should only use "used to" for states. Is this true? Suppose that we have this sentences: Childhood (would)/(used to) be quiet different from what it is today. People never ...

grammar

The difference between used to and would when they're used in the same meaning is very subtle, I think.

My idea is one pushes the idea in the sentence into the background, and the other brings it to the light into the focus.

But they're almost completely interchangeable when being used for that meaning.

GATA

My last question:) . I sould have mixed 20% oil with 80% paint but I have mixed 80% paint with 20% oil. Can I say "I've just realized that I was doing it in reverse/opposite way"

Anonymous

04:41

I'd say I just realized I was doing it backwards. Or I could say I got the amounts mixed up or something like that.

Damkerng T.

I think you can use it, but with the (i.e. the opposite way), though it sounds a little clumsy. My natural choice would be But I've just realized that I was doing it the [ wrong way / other way around ].

GATA

Thanks @snailboat. and @DamkerngT.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Oh, I like that :-)

Damkerng T.

Yay! Please click [like] and subscribe. :P

Anonymous

follows

Damkerng T.

04:45

Hehe!

Anonymous

Social media sites in Japanese say いいね！

Anonymous

I think you might recognize いい as the adjective meaning 'good' and ね as the interactional particle seeking to establish rapport/agreement with the listener.

Anonymous

But like the English word like, it's taken on a new grammatical life of its own.

Damkerng T.

I haven't heard them used together before.

nods

Anonymous

Now you can いいねする

Damkerng T.

04:46

Hah!

Anonymous

It's the いいねボタン "like button", and you can いいねを押す "push like" or just いいねする "like"

Anonymous

I just had to turn a snail right side up.

Damkerng T.

Oh, what happened?

Was it the eclipse that confused the snail?

Anonymous

I'm honestly not sure! I just found Ponyo lying upside down on her shell, looking confused.

Anonymous

I turned her right side up and set her down near some food.

Anonymous

04:57

Ah, she's back to normal snail business now.

Anonymous

I've seen snails end up upside down in some rather odd ways.

Anonymous

I saw a snail very slowly crawl off the bottom side of a leaf, then end up falling and landing upside down.

Anonymous

Things like this seem to perplex the poor little guys :-)

Anonymous

But if you give a snail enough time, they can right themselves.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Yay!

(Sorry, I was away to write an answer. :-)

@snailboat Hehe!

For them, raindrops would be like small bombs.

Or maybe hailstones.

Anonymous

05:06

Snails like water, but when a raindrop hits them they reflexively shrink back.

Anonymous

I think snails really do like the rain, though.

Anonymous

Even though it makes them shrink back, they'll seek out a source of falling water.

Damkerng T.

imagining snails dancing that 'singing in the rain' song...

Snail Walking

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CowperKettle

05:43

A Go match between an AI entity and a human champion

Match 1 - Google DeepMind Challenge Match: Lee Sedol vs AlphaGo

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> Give but his horns the slightest touch,
His self-collecting power is such,
He shrinks into his house, with much
Displeasure.

Damkerng T.

Something people haven't tried yet (as far as I'm aware of) is to have best players team up playing against a machine.

I think it's simply fairer.

Because in the case of a machine, we can add more processors, more memory, more disk space, and so on, and we still call it a machine. But it's not actually a machine, it's a cluster of machines inside a machine.

Then again,

if we go on like that, the day that all machines vs. all human beings will come some day.

CowperKettle

06:49

0

Q: "on opposite sides of" vs. "on the opposite sides of"

From Chemguide: The most likely example of geometric isomerism you will meet at an introductory level is but-2-ene. In one case, the CH3 groups are on opposite sides of the double bond, and in the other case they are on the same side. Would it seem strange to a native speaker of English if ...

articles

I did a google Ngram test, and it unearthed an interesting decline in the use of "on the opposite sides of"

@DamkerngT. Yes, but in Go, human players might tend to argue between each other..

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Reminds me of this argument in Rise of the Planet of the Apes:

> Caesar: [to Maurice in sign language and breaking and bundling sticks] Ape alone... weak. Apes together... strong.
Maurice: [to Caesar in sign language as they observe chimps beating each other and stop] Apes stupid.

I'm not sure, but we could be the apes in the eyes of the machines one day. >:P

CowperKettle

Ha, I get it. (0:

Damkerng T.

07:24

1

Q: What's the correct phrase ? " receiving gold medal in math subject or gold medal for math subject?"

Which is correct? he receives gold in math Or he receives gold for math

prepositions

You can try googling for "won a gold medal in mathematics" and "won a gold medal for mathematics" on the web, in Google Books, etc.; and don't forget to judge for yourself, the writer is a speaker of what dialect of English, how good their writing skill is, and so on. — Damkerng T. 4 mins ago

Sometimes I wonder if it's really matter.

In the end, by the time a learner really uses it in their own speech or writing, their sentences are probably way more complicated than just a single preposition will make any difference.

^The above sentence is 33 words long. I think someone recently posted a quote that a good speaker or a writer (or a communicator?) wouldn't use a sentence longer than 30 words.

Let's see...

Oh, found it!

2

Q: Few people who are worth listening

Convey the message as you would speak it. Few people who are worth listening to speak in sentences of more than 30 words. Could you please help me with understanding the bold sentence. I roughly understand the meaning: most of people are not used to listening to sentences containing more than 3...

meaning-in-context

> Few people who are worth listening to speak in sentences of more than 30 words.

Anonymous

08:37

@DamkerngT. Some people use short sentences. Other people use long sentences.

Anonymous

Most people, in fact, use a mixture of both as appropriate.

Anonymous

But we all have our own styles, don't we?

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I think so. :-)

Anonymous

Don't worry about it.

user116848

ok

user116848

08:39

I'm gone anyway

user116848

Bye DT and all

Anonymous

I'm skeptical of a thirty word limit.

Damkerng T.

@Arrowfar Good luck. I wish I could've said something more before you left. Anyway, I hope you'll find everything you hope for in your life. Peace, happiness, and all.

@snailboat Me too. I don't know how they came up with the number!

user116848

@DamkerngT. ok thanks :)

Damkerng T.

I guess this is a part where we'd say our farewells to each other. :D

user116848

08:44

Yeah they already messaged me to write "delete me" in my profile.

user116848

They will nuke me soon anyway :p

user116848

I mean it was my choice.

CowperKettle

@Arrowfar It's not like you're departing on a trip to Mars, so I say goodbye, and all the best to you! Maybe you'll peek in someday to say "hi!".

user116848

I'm moving on from SE.

CowperKettle

(sorry, busy now)

user116848

08:45

@CowperKettle of course ;-)

user116848

@snailboat Btw snail I always had a crush on you in chats :-) Just saying. Ok please don't kick me for saying that :p

user116848

I better shut up and leave!

Anonymous

09:18

@DamkerngT. I think the basic sentiment – write like you speak – is sound. And people do tend to use less complex structure in spontaneous speech. That complex speech is supported by planning, and spontaneous speech is more or less unplanned by definition.

Anonymous

People don't really speak in sentences, though.

Damkerng T.

That's another thing I think is odd in the assertion, too.

Then again, we can say that we have to turn our speech into sentences in transcriptions.

Anonymous

That's true. Well, generally true.

Damkerng T.

The trend seems to be shorter and shorter sentences are preferred, though.

Anonymous

Linguists don't always try to divide utterances into sentences in transcriptions. You do have to, though, if you want to follow the standard orthography.

Damkerng T.

09:22

nods

Anonymous

Yeah, written English sentences have gotten shorter and shorter.

Anonymous

But that's on average. There's still enormous variation from writer to writer, and from sentence to sentence.

2

Anonymous

I think writing is boring when you make all your sentences the same length.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

But we more or less do that with our poems! :-)

5-2-5-2-5-2-2-5-2-2 (the pattern of one Thai poem type)

In normal speech, I think we need variations. In poems, we somehow expect patterns.

(Oh, I just recalled that children can easily fall asleep if a poem goes on too long. :-)

IͶΔ

Hullo Dam Snail

Anonymous

09:39

Hello!

Damkerng T.

Hello!

CowperKettle

Good morning, @snailboat!

Muhammad, hello!

> When he was 12, he was performing here.

Is this wrong?

It must be, according to PEU.

IͶΔ

\o

Damkerng T.

Every day?

IͶΔ

@CowperKettle Weird

CowperKettle

09:43

1

Q: past simple vs. past continuous

How can we explain the difference between these two sentences? I saw his concert when he performed here. I saw his concert when he was performing here. I know that the first sentence refers to a completed action and the second sentence to a continuous action. But if someone asks me ...

meaning tense

I looked up PEU, and wrote an answer. But "When he was 12, he was performing here." sounds not that wrong..

Damkerng T.

What entry is it in PEU?

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. 422

Damkerng T.

Thanks! --looking it up...

CowperKettle

422.4, even.

IͶΔ

It's not as strong as ungrammatical to me.

Anonymous

09:47

It sounds okay to me.

CowperKettle

@snailboat Thanks!

Damkerng T.

> At the time when it happened, I was travelling to New York a lot.

Anonymous

I'm too lazy to grab PEU and look that up, but I can look later :-)

CowperKettle

(0:

Damkerng T.

PEU 422.4 says the sentence above is okay, too.

CowperKettle

09:49

But "he was performing here" is in the foreground.

Damkerng T.

> However, the past progressive is possible if the repeated actions form a ‘background’ for the main action.

Hmm,.. how do we decide what's foreground and what's background?

Anonymous

When he was 12 isn't a single point in time, it's a pretty big span.

IͶΔ

Esp. if he's 13.

Anonymous

Is there any context for the sentence?

CowperKettle

No.

ell.stackexchange.com/questions/83893/…

IͶΔ

09:52

(/¯◡ ‿ ◡)/¯ ~ ┻━┻

Its context is it's being asked about in that question.

Damkerng T.

Heh!

CowperKettle

Gosh. He deleted his post.

It was a nice question.

BBL

IͶΔ

Mhm, @Sha don't identicons get generated once per email address? If so, that would mean we've got two accounts with the same login credentials but different user IDs. Suspicious? — IͶΔ 32 secs ago

Detective work!

Fard

10:07

Hey guys! What do you think about this question? :

6

Q: "Some things are better left unsaid." -- What are the grammatical functions of 'better', 'left' and 'unsaid'?

Some things are better left unsaid. This is the way I understand the sentence: [Some [things]] = subject [better] = predicative complement [left [unsaid]] = predicative adjunct 1 [unsaid] = predicative adjunct 2 But I'm not sure.

sentence-structure

IͶΔ

Oh that one.

Fard

Seen that?

IͶΔ

It's an awesome question.

@Fard It's been also brought up in this chat.

Fard

I tend to agree with the OP's analysis.

Where?

If it's too much trouble , don't bother finding it.

IͶΔ

Dec 6 '15 at 16:09, by CopperKettle

0

Q: "Some things are better left unsaid." - What is the grammatical function of 'better', 'left' and 'unsaid'?

Some things are better left unsaid. This is the way I understand the sentence: [Some [things]] = subject [better] = subject complement [left [unsaid]] = predicative adjunct 1 [unsaid] = predicative adjunct 2 But I'm not sure. I appreciate your help.

grammar

Fard

10:10

Thanks.

It's not discussed much there.

The funny thing is the OP's analysis of the sentence is based on the translation of the sentence into Arabic! (as per their comment)

IͶΔ

10:54

@Fard Arabic grammatical analysis is rather weird.

For instance, in the analysis they teach us at school at least, the classifier is treated as the head of a phrase. CC @Snail

O_O

@Fard you a linguist? Tell us a bit about yourself. Ya know, the getting-to-know-you chat stuff.

languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=24463

I'm gonna use petaloso a lot.

2

A LOT!

Fard

11:14

TL;DR the petalso thing. :)

No, I'm not a linguist. I enjoy learning languages though. on my free time.

I've studied Physics! @IͶΔ

What about you?

CowperKettle

13:12

Word of the day: comfit.

Comfit

Comfits are confectionery consisting of dried fruits, nuts, seeds or spices coated with sugar candy, often through sugar panning. Almond comfits (also known as "sugar almonds" or "Jordan almonds") in a muslin bag or other decorative container are a traditional gift at baptism and wedding celebrations in many countries of Europe and the Middle East, a custom which has spread to other countries such as Australia and Puerto Rico. While licorice comfits (also known as torpedoes because of their shape) are multi-coloured, almond comfits are usually white for weddings but may be brightly coloured for...

Your English is perfect, @Fard. Muhammad loves chemistry, but I bet he knows physics too.

Fard

@CowperKettle Oh, food names!

I don't know food names in my own language very well. Let alone English.

And my English is not that good. The other day I was talking with someone, and instead of casualness, I said casualty. Felt kinda embarrassed for quite a time. Thanks though.

Damkerng T.

14:17

I wonder if these are qualified as comfits.

@Fard Well, I once replied to my friend who sent me a gift, on the card written "You are awesome", why did you say such an awful thing to me?

I'm not sure who should feel more embarrassed between us. :P

Fard

:)) I kinda once did the same too, in my younger and more vulnerable years!

Then I decide to train myself to not freak out when sb compliments me.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

Fard

*decided

Damkerng T.

@IͶΔ I guess you'd use petalful in English.

Fard

14:33

I'm not sure about its usefulness though. Almost any flower is petalful/petaloso.

Damkerng T.

> (a text from 1831): The pale purplish red flowers are pretty full of petals, extremely handsome, and 4 in. in expansion, bearing considerable resemblance to those of C. japonica elegans.

> (2016): The pale purplish red flowers are pretty petalful, extremely handsome, and 4 in. in expansion, bearing considerable resemblance to those of C. japonica elegans.

:D

@Fard True! :D

Fard

google.com/…

I didn't get what was so great about petaloso that deserved so much attention.

Petalless would be more innovative!

Damkerng T.

@Fard I think it's a social network thing.

Hehe!

Fard

You mean when sth goes viral for no reason?

Damkerng T.

Come to think of it, do we have any wingless bird?

Fard

14:37

Mmm...

Damkerng T.

@Fard Yes. I guess there must be some reasons, though the reasons may not be reasonable for everyone.

Fard

google.com/…

Damkerng T.

Oh, Kiwi!

Fard

Poor thing.

I gotta go. See you :).

Damkerng T.

See you!

IͶΔ

15:55

@Fard In the university?

@DamkerngT. Petalful looks un-petalosoly lame.

Damkerng T.

16:10

Aww

IͶΔ

Wwa

Now I'm wondering why the order of modifiers must be strict in English.

Damkerng T.

Is it that strict?

IͶΔ

It's much more strict than it is in other languages.

222

Q: What is the rule for adjective order?

I remember being taught that the correct order of adjectives in English was something along the lines of "Opinion-Size-Age-Color-Material-Purpose." However, it's been a long time and I'm pretty sure I've forgotten a few categories (I think there were eight or nine). Can anyone fill them in?

adjectives word-order noun-phrases

There are certainly rules.

Damkerng T.

Wow, look at the numbers of votes!

IͶΔ

I'm looking to ask a nice ELL question just to get a stupid answer and go berserk in chat.

@DamkerngT. It's rather low for a question of 83k views.

Damkerng T.

16:18

Good point.

IͶΔ

@Dam may I request you unignore Arrowfar and take a look at what he's posted in ELL's Cabin?

1

A: What *is* a 'homework question'?

After being awfully quiet about this for a long time, I think it's time to give this another push. What is a 'homework question'? I don't know. And I don't want to know. I really think it is the wrong question to ask. The term itself comes with the perception that it is an assignment, see Wikip...

^^^ This is why Mart's one of the kewlest mods on SE.

Damkerng T.

@IͶΔ I already bid him farewell a few hours ago in here.

Man_From_India

Not much explanation, but you might get some idea from here -

1

A: Thanks for your nice, long letter. Thanks for your nice and long letter

The preferred way of saying - a nice long letter and a nice and long letter Grammatical Explanation - An adjective occurs in a noun phrase, in between the determinative (pre determiner + center determiner + post determiner) and the head noun. At times there might be a need to acc...

IͶΔ

@DamkerngT. How petaloso

@Man_From_India Oh, you've talked about the for AOR states.

Damkerng T.

@IͶΔ I felt like I should add something (like don't worry, and such) in the main room at first, but it seems like there is another issue that he may want to clear up, and I don't want to meddle.

@Man_From_India It doesn't sound like a homework question, though. :D

IͶΔ

16:31

The moment you realize you have a typo and can't edit it. :/

I'm turning more and more into auto-incorrect. O_O

Damkerng T.

@IͶΔ I learned to live with my typos. :D

IͶΔ

ell.stackexchange.com/posts/83939/revisions

@Leckon please use blockquotes and fancy heavy formatting next time.

Damkerng T.

Better let your messages come together like a paragraph.

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. Oh no no, it's not a homework question. I just meant it is a question about adjective order.

lekon chekon

hey

Damkerng T.

16:35

@Man_From_India Ahh... I see. I misunderstood your point!

IͶΔ

hay

lekon chekon

@IͶΔ

I shall

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. :-)

IͶΔ

@Lekon

lekon chekon

And thanks for editing the post. :)

I have a sentence. ._.)
It's related to tenses.

Here goes.

If he got to find out how lazy you are, he'd actually be surprised.
If he got to find out how lazy you were, he'd actually be surprised.

would you say both the sentences are correct?

And mean the same thing?

IͶΔ

16:38

Yes.

Maybe.

lekon chekon

Yes is more certain than Maybe. ._.)

IͶΔ

Of course if they meant exactly the same thing, they wouldn't have been two sentences.

But they're both grammatically correct to me.

lekon chekon

should i post this one as well on the main site?

no, i know they're grammatically correct.

IͶΔ

Your choice.

I think the meaning difference is just on are vs. were @Lekon.

lekon chekon

xD

IͶΔ

16:40

It's just the tense of the clause.

You could as well just say "how lazy you've been" and it would convey a perfect meaning.

lekon chekon

The person who's lazy, is presently lazy.
They're currently lazy.

if i wanted to convey a hypothetical meaning concerning the present, i think it's better to go with are.

IͶΔ

Hmm.

CowperKettle

Good evening, Muhammad, dobry vecher, @V.V.!

IͶΔ

\o

lekon chekon

@CowperKettle, hey copper. :3

CowperKettle

16:51

Hey, @Lekon!

IͶΔ

@CowperKettle Out of context, I'd think Dobry Vecher is a quantum physicist.

lekon chekon

Say, do we say "How much do you think you're going to get on that test?" or, do we say "how much do you think you're going to get in that test?"

?

IͶΔ

@lekonchekon Hmm, in.

> I got an F in chemistry. [sic]

lekon chekon

How many questions did you attempt in your chemistry paper?

would this be right?

IͶΔ

Yes.

lekon chekon

16:55

My going fail my physics paper.

I suppose this would be correct as well, since i've heard people use it. Would it not?

IͶΔ

What?

That sentence is neither grammatically nor semantically working in my head.

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