Language Overflow

Damkerng T.

04:51

1

A: Is "Bananas grow in a tropical climate" grammatically correct?

"Bananas grow in a tropical climate." is also correct. It seems to answer the question, "What types of things grow in a tropical climate?" Whereas "Bananas grow in tropical climates." seems to answer the question "Where will bananas grow?" Really it's a poorly written exam question.

Now, that's a good example

CopperKettle

05:03

@CK - Indeed: "going rate", "going wrong", "going south", "...any jobs going?" More British than American in usage, but an Adjective nonetheless. — lurker 41 mins ago

@DamkerngT. I disagree. It's a nice exam question. The pupil needs to produce the most generic sentence: "Bananas grow in cold climates".

Damkerng T.

@CopperKettle I disagree with that part as well.

It's the only answer that convinces me that "Bananas grow in a tropical climate" can be good in some contexts, though.

CopperKettle

Yes, from this standpoint its okay.

Damkerng T.

I hope someone will post a better answer!

I wish I could do that, but I'm not sure I handle this aspect of the language well enough.

CopperKettle

I've dowlnoaded Jown Lawler's "Generic Noun Phrase", but a quick perusal led me to naught. (0:

Damkerng T.

nods

CopperKettle

05:10

"It seems to answer the question, "What types of things grow in a tropical climate?"" --- but only with prosodic stress on bananas, I guess.

Damkerng T.

I agree.

CopperKettle

Without prosodic stress, the focus seems to fall on grow, and invite an adverb like really fast. (0:

(I feel myself like a snailboat wannabe)

(because I really know little about this subject)

(the sign says: "fpoft is fife!")

("sport is life!")

Damkerng T.

Occupational hazard!

CopperKettle

(0:

(or "wpowt if wife")

Isn't that Thai, I wonder.

Damkerng T.

It is!

Hmm... "baby clam"?

CopperKettle

05:17

The Russian sign says: "Fried clams of a baby".

Damkerng T.

ผัดหอยลาย

Oh, I didn't know that หอยลาย = baby clam!

หอยลาย

หอยลาย (อังกฤษ: Surf clam, Short necked clam, Carpet clam, Venus shell, Baby clam; ชื่อวิทยาศาสตร์: Paphia undulata) เป็นหอยฝาคู่ ที่อยู่ในวงศ์หอยลาย (Veneridae) ลักษณะเปลือกมีรูปร่างเป็นรูปไข่ ฝาทั้งสองฝามีขนาดเท่ากัน ผิวด้านนอกของเปลือกหอยเรียบ มีสีน้ำตาลอ่อน และมีลวดลายหยักเป็นเส้นคล้ายตาข่ายตลอดความยาวของผิวเปลือก เส้นลายหยักเหล่านี้จะมีสีน้ำตาลเข้ม ส่วนผิวเปลือกด้านในเรียบมีสีขาว ในส่วนของบานพับ ซึ่งเป็นส่วนต่อระหว่างฝาทั้งสองมีลักษณะคล้ายฟันซี่เล็ก ๆ ฝาละ 3 ซี่ พบกระจายพันธุ์ในน้ำลึกประมาณ 8.0 เมตร โดยขุดรูอยู่ใต้พื้นทรายลึกประมาณ 20 เซนติเมตร พบกระจายพันธุ์ในทะเลแถบเอเชียอาคเนย์ ในปร...

CopperKettle

06:11

"Bananas are fruits". Or fruit?

Hmm..

Damkerng T.

I wouldn't be surprised if we find both in corpora.

Anonymous

06:26

Bananas are fruit. Bananas are fruits. Bananas are a fruit.

CopperKettle

"Bananas are fruit. Bananas grow on banana plants popularly called 'banana trees'. Bananas grow in tropical climates. "

"The generic use of zero article with both plural nouns and noncount nouns
identifies the class considered as an UNDIFFERENTIATED WHOLE" (Quirk, 5.54)

Why not the zero article?

Anonymous

I don't think there's any deep meaning to be found in that empty determiner slot.

CopperKettle

"article" is a singular count noun, "zero" is an attributive noun, so there has to be the

Anonymous

It could be a typo or just an unusual choice. If it's the latter, it would reflect an unusual way of conceptualizing things, but I don't think it would make any difference to the overall meaning.

CopperKettle

A lot of articles make no difference to the overall meaning, but still English speaking persons use them. (0:

Anonymous

06:35

You can just write in the and move on, if you like :-)

CopperKettle

So omitting an article before a singular count noun is A-OK. It figures. (0:

Anonymous

Well, no.

Anonymous

It forces the reader to interpret it as a non-count noun. What meaning that implies depends on the semantics of the noun.

Damkerng T.

I think it's common to drop the article ofter of.

I'm not sure about the real patterns.

Anonymous

But in this case that's quite unusual, and if you told me it was a typo I'd believe it :-)

Damkerng T.

06:38

nods

CopperKettle

Another typo in Quirk et al.!

I should produce a CopperKettle-proofread version.

Anonymous

Well, any book that giant is sure to have a few :-)

CopperKettle

(0:

Damkerng T.

"Around the world, people live in homes."

Anonymous

Here's an example: I've got apples all over my shirt! versus I've got apple all over my shirt! What do you picture in each case? In the latter, the noun is forcibly reinterpreted as non-count. What semantic difference goes along with this grammatical change?

CopperKettle

06:42

@snailboat A good example! But I cannot imagine zero article all over my shirt. (0:

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Doncha mean houses?

Damkerng T.

I wonder if people will think that "Around the world, people live in a home" is good too.

CopperKettle

"I've got zero article all over my essay!"

Damkerng T.

@snailboat It's from an AusE textbook.

Anonymous

@CopperKettle I can't either :-) But like I said, what semantics go along with that change depend on the kind of noun.

Anonymous

06:44

The apple example is just to show how the grammatical context makes it into a non-count noun.

Damkerng T.

Your shirt must have several pockets when you say I've got apples all over my shirt!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Oh, I see. I'm not sure what the relevant dialectal differences might be.

CopperKettle

@DamkerngT. I'd imagine images of apples printed all over the shirt.

Anonymous

Funny, I imagined the speaker was lying down :-)

Damkerng T.

Oh, that's good too!

Anonymous

06:45

Or, just maybe, they owned the shirt but weren't wearing it at utterance time.

Damkerng T.

See, this is why I love language!

Anonymous

I think that in principle almost any noun can be countified or massified, but it's not always clear what it would mean.

CopperKettle

"What types of things grow in a tropical climate?" - "Bananas grow in a tropical climate." --- Wouldn't this be an echo-answer or something?

Damkerng T.

Not sure if the term counts for non-Yes-No question too.

CopperKettle

I just recalled that Snails used some term like "echo question" or "echo answer" to explain why sometimes we break the Penthouse Principle.

Anonymous

06:55

Echo question

CopperKettle

Thanks, Snails! Then it's not applicable here.

So "Bananas grow in a tropical climate." is felicitous either then there's (a?) contrast with another statement, overt or presumed, or when bananas or grow receive prosodic stress.

Damkerng T.

Ahh

> Two freshmen girls are moving into their dorm room together. One of them's from Georgia, one of them's from Connecticut. The girl from Connecticut's helping her mother put up curtains. The girl from Georgia turns to them and says, "Hi! Where y'all from?" The girl from Connecticut says, "We're from a place where we know not to end a sentence with a preposition". The girl from Georgia says, "oh, beg my pardon. Where y'all from? C*nt?" You heard that one before?

Anonymous

Oh, that's a cruder version than I'm familiar with!

Damkerng T.

They censored that word, so I was confused when I watched it. The next character said it was rude.

Anonymous

It's an old joke :-)

Damkerng T.

06:59

It's a rough joke!

Anonymous

Yeah, the version I know doesn't use that word.

CopperKettle

I don't get it. Is there some wordplay? Or is it just a rude joke?.

Anonymous

Expletive inflation, I s'pose.

Anonymous

languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3407#comment-136075

Damkerng T.

Anyway, deleting that word makes it sound not so rude (and also ruins the joke)!

CopperKettle

07:01

@snailboat Ah, now I understand it. (0:

Anonymous

The word in the version above is, to me, one of the most strongly taboo words in the English language.

Damkerng T.

nods -- They made it disappear so neatly!

Anonymous

Bare infinitival complement following make

Damkerng T.

So my first intuition is correct? I shouldn't have a second thought. :-)

Anonymous

Though note that it becomes a to-infinitival in passives

Anonymous

07:05

A made B do something, but B was made to do something by A

Damkerng T.

I thought disappeared could be a state, but I don't know what I was thinking!

Anonymous

Oh, like They made me happy? Hmm, I don't think disappeared works that way. It's not really an adjective.

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

Sheesh, English grammar is hard, isn't it? :-)

Damkerng T.

Indeed!

CopperKettle

07:09

@snailboat resultative secondary predicate. (0:

Anonymous

Object-oriented!

Damkerng T.

LOL

CopperKettle

(0:

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure if Ale has been in here before.

I just noticed what he wrote in his profile. It's a strange way to phrase it, imho.

Anonymous

I haven't seen Ale's profile

Damkerng T.

07:12

Ale, Santiago, Chile

1k 1 2 19

CopperKettle

"There's a lot of things I still must learn to keep mastering English!"

Damkerng T.

It could be his humor as well, though.

CopperKettle

nods

Anonymous

Perfectly understandable :-) But yes, once you master something you typically don't keep mastering it. It's that pesky lexical aspect thing again.

Anonymous

My preferred way of talking about native speakerdom is to use the phrase native speaker [of X]

Damkerng T.

07:15

nods

Anonymous

There are various reasons to avoid X native speaker and native X speaker

Damkerng T.

Aktionsart is really though. (Hey, is it 'is' or 'are'?)

Anonymous

Aktionsart is

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Oh, now I'm curious!

Anonymous

Your s migrated

Damkerng T.

07:16

LOL -- Silly me!

Anonymous

Consider: is a Spanish native speaker someone who natively speaks Spanish or are they from Spain?

Damkerng T.

Hmm...

Anonymous

Native speakers of Spanish often live outside Spain, just as native speakers of English often live outside England.

Damkerng T.

I think I get it. Thanks!

Anonymous

Native American English speaker – a native speaker of American English, or an English speaker that is Native American?

Anonymous

07:20

Putting the language in the of-phrase handles all the ambiguous cases.

Damkerng T.

That's even more ambiguous!

nods

Anonymous

So I never say X native speaker, nor native X speaker, and I especially never refer to a native speaker as a native

Anonymous

I would recommend everyone avoid these expressions

Damkerng T.

I sometimes use the first two, but never the last one.

A funny thing that I might say: a native English speaking American English teacher. :P

And that's still ambiguous!

(probably ungrammatical)

Anonymous

A teacher and native speaker of American English? :-)

Anonymous

07:24

This is also ambiguous!

Damkerng T.

An English teacher who is American and is a native speaker of (American) English!

Anonymous

I would say She teaches American English and speaks it natively or some such

Damkerng T.

That's clearer. :-)

Anonymous

No need to cram everything into a noun phrase when you've got a good verb to do half the work

Damkerng T.

@Damkerng T. With any verbs or a noun another example : there must be an activity existing/ there must be an existing activity — user1474062 47 mins ago

Hmm... I think John Lawler wrote about this alternation once, though not specifically to the -ing form.

Anonymous

07:32

Well, only one of the examples in the question is grammatical

Damkerng T.

nods -- I remember vaguely that we need more words or a longer phrase to allow the alternation.

(And there's a better term for this kind of alternation.)

Anonymous

Sorry, I don't know what alternation you're thinking of.

Damkerng T.

an existing activity, vs. an activity existing over there.

Not sure if it really fits with the there be construction, but I think the OP means he uses this all the time in any kind of sentence.

CopperKettle

10:29

@lekonchekon - this is the key room where all things grammatical are discussed here. But there's not much people awake now. (0:

In about 6 hours there will be some people and some discussion.

@lekonchekon - I've found this question related to yours:

1

Q: Is "would + present tense" bad grammar?

Is using "would + present tense" bad grammar? I said "Would it be alright if I go with you?" to a classmate and she replied with "Sure, it would be OK if you came with me." which threw me off a bit. I know you are supposed to say "I would rather you didn't." but does that mean I can only use w...

tense conditional-constructions verb-forms

kitty

hi all. I am sorry to interrupt. Did any of you ever take IELTS? I have never sat for an IELTS, but I see that you guys here always are writing like native writers , so I guess you should have got a very high mark in the writing part.

lekon chekon

I remember posting this as a question on yahoo answers as well,trying to figure it was grammatically correct or not.

So,it seems like there's a lot of people here,so this might be a better place to post it

Here goes.

"If i bought that book,it'd be so i had something to give to you on your birthday."

Is the above sentence grammatically correct?

Anonymous

@lekonchekon Yes

kitty

If I leave this chat room, will my question be deleted?

lekon chekon

@snai

the last time,the answers i got said that "If i bought that book,it'd be so i have something to give to you on your birthday",is that grammatically correct as well?

how are two different?

and @kitty

i don't think so. :p

even though i'm new here. :p

Anonymous

10:46

Why don't you post the question on ELL proper?

Anonymous

@kitty Messages stick around in chat forever.

CopperKettle

I wonder why I can't post a bounty for a 2-year-old question.

Anonymous

Do you have three bounties open?

CopperKettle

Is three the limit? Then I see why. (0:

Yes. It worked. I ditched one bounty, started another.

lekon chekon

.-. what about my question?
the difference between the two sentences? :P

"if i bought that book,it'd be so i had something to give you on your birthday."
"if i bought that book,it'd be so i have something to give you on your birthday."

CopperKettle

10:52

@lekonchekon - post it as a question on ELL

lekon chekon

What's ELL?

I posted it as a question a few times here,on this site as well.
So,if i posted it again,it'd probably get flagged for a duplicate.

CopperKettle

The main site, where we post questions. People are not exactly obligated to answer right away in the chat. (0:

@lekonchekon THen read the answers to it. (0: YOu can also get a copy of Quirk et al.'s grammar or some other grammar and read a section on conditional sentences. (0:

lekon chekon

i did read the answers,they just weren't of that much help.

When constructing hypothetical sentences,am i to strictly use past tense?

If that's so,then why were people preferring "If i bought that book,it'd be so i have something to give you on your birthday" to the one with "Had" in it?

i've gone through a lot of sites recently,none of them have been able to rid me of my doubts concerning this certain question.

CopperKettle

3

Q: When constructing a hypothetical sentence, do I have to keep all the tenses in the past?

If I bought that book, it would be so I had something to give to you on your birthday. Is the above sentence grammatically correct? Or would "have" be a better option than "had"?

tense subjunctive

Maybe the tenses requirements here are flexible enough and it is not a big deal.

Anonymous

Is your birthday still in the future?

lekon chekon

11:09

let's just say the birthday we're talking about is about a week from now.

that way,it'd be HAVE,instead of HAD,i suppose.

Anonymous

No, had still works

lekon chekon

Thanks.:)

and i had some other questions as well,minor ones,i suppose.

Would you,or anyone else have the time to rid me of my doubts now?

Anonymous

I'm very tired and can't write up a complete answer on my phone in chat right now

lekon chekon

Sure.

Could you just answer in yes,or no,maybe?

i'm posting it here anyway,maybe someone else will answer it.

I would be glad if you showed me the paintings you've drawn.

I would be glad if you showed me the paintings you've drawn.

Which of the above sentences is correct?

Anonymous

Um, how exactly do they differ?

Anonymous

11:16

A dizzying array of sentences, each more identical than the last

lekon chekon

"

sorry. xD
I would like to rephrase the second one to "I would be glad if you showed me the paintings you had drawn.

Anonymous

Had is certainly possible, but it'd be unusual and you would need some reason in the surrounding context

Anonymous

You probably want have

Anonymous

Are you just going to paste your ELL questions in chat?

Anonymous

That's not exactly what chat is designed for

Anonymous

11:21

It's not a replacement for the main site

lekon chekon

nope.
Not anymore.
I'm sorry about that.
It's just that the feeling of getting to have my doubts cleared over a normal conversation without having to post questions is kind of overwhelming. :P

i won't post questions here anymore. :p

Anonymous

You probably think the last two questions are similar, but they're actually quite different

Anonymous

I'm afraid I haven't explained either of them so that might be unclear

Anonymous

But I need to sleep

lekon chekon

could you explain them to me tomorrow,over a private chat or something?

CopperKettle

11:24

@lekonchekon -- Imagine how it would overwhelm you if I asked you to explain the grammar of a complex sentence in your native language, in a conversation. (0: I would be hard put to explain 90% of the Russian grammar in a talk.

Anonymous

No, I'm afraid there is no private chat here on SE

Anonymous

You haven't really explained your thought process in asking about these sentence pairs, so I have to start by guessing what conceptual mistakes you might be making

CopperKettle

@lekonchekon - you really should equip yourself with some advanced textbooks if you want to now grammar in depth. @snailboat needs sleep, because it's nearing sunrise in her part of the woods. (0:

BBL

Anonymous

I went to go to sleep many hours ago, but I had to get up just minutes later to help someone with something

lekon chekon

okay.
how about we talk about this when no one needs sleep. x3
that'd probably be better for you people,i suppose. xD

Anonymous

11:26

I'm sort of in zombie mode now :-)

lekon chekon

if you have time,i got no problem explaining my thought process to you.

so,should i explain the way i think about tenses,and why my thinking confuses me,now?

.-.

._.)

Damkerng T.

12:04

@lekonchekon You can talk about your ideas now. I'm sure snailboat will read it later.

By the way, welcome to the room!

lekon chekon

thanks. :)
okay.
Give me a few minutes. :P

Damkerng T.

Keep in mind that grammatical doesn't always mean appropriate. A sentence would sound wrong if it doesn't convey the intended meaning in the context. Then again, that same sentence may be perfect in another time and place.

lekon chekon

okay,so here's my line of though.

Suppose,there's a sentence that goes.
"I will be glad,if you show me one of the paintings you've drawn."

Now.
I hear that past tense is more polite.
So.
And as per the second conditional,i could use would,instead of will,showed,instead of show,shall follow that as well.
Where lies my problem is,i don't know if i should the tenses to the past,or should i change it to the present.

If i changed the sentence to the past.

I'd be glad if you showed me one of the paintings you had drawn.

Damkerng T.

If you used 'd and showed because you want to be indirect (that is, to be polite), had drawn doesn't really work, imho.

lekon chekon

i see.
I've got some other doubts regarding some sentences,and tenses agreement as well.

but it'd require me to post questions here.

i don't think my posting questions here would be appreciated much.

Damkerng T.

12:19

We can discuss language stuff here, just keep it discussion-like, and it would be fine. :-)

(In other words, don't abuse it, but it looks like you already know that, so it should be fine.)

lekon chekon

okay.
I shall try. :p

feel free to warn me if go wrong somewhere. :p

Damkerng T.

Okay! :D

lekon chekon

anyway.

Suppose there're two sentences.

If i had a car of my own,i could go wherever i wanted.

If i had a car of my own,i could go wherever i want.

Now,as far as people have told me,both are correct,probably.
But should i always try to be consistent with the agreement of tenses,and try to keep the sentence to not the present (since someone told me that there're two basic timeframes, present..and not present)

probably read that somewhere on the main site.

Damkerng T.

I think I agree with those people.

lekon chekon

backshifting,should backshift the entire sentence,or should i leave some parts out?

Damkerng T.

12:24

As for the agreement, I'd say the most important agreement is the agreement between your sentences and your thoughts. :D

lekon chekon

if i went by that,grammar would totally be neglected. :|

xD

Damkerng T.

@lekonchekon Hmm... not quite, I think.

lekon chekon

okay,here's something.

Damkerng T.

Here is my idea... okay, you first.

lekon chekon

i was walking down the street,and hit me how the world was filled with people who didn't know how to do that.

i was walking down the street,and hit me how the world was filled with people who don't know how to do that.

i was walking down the street,and hit me how the world is filled with people who don't know how to do that.

do these 3 sentences mean different things?

i was thing about how the was then,so should the entire sentence not be in past tense?

it hit me*

Damkerng T.

12:30

In this case, you're not really speaking (as in talking to someone in a conversation). Technically, you are, but for our discussion what you're really doing is telling your story.

So, backshifting everything is more appropriate.

But!

Telling a story doesn't always force backshifting; and I have a hunch that you might already have some ideas about it.

lekon chekon

i'm not really good with grammar technicalities,i just go by my instinct. :|
which often leaves me confused. ._.

i usually prefer to keep the tenses in agreement,which leads to further questions.
And since i keep asking questions,a lot of people come up with a variable answers.

Damkerng T.

@lekonchekon But isn't it true that virtually all native speakers don't have to think about grammar when they speak?

@lekonchekon I think I understand. I guess that it's because you process the grammar part at a higher level, instead of at a lower level, near your thoughts.

lekon chekon

i'm not a native speaker. ._.

Damkerng T.

Me neither.

lekon chekon

kinda.

not native speakers usually care more for grammar than native speakers. xD

we wouldn't want to make a fool of ourselves whilst having a conversation in a foreign language,would we now? :3

Damkerng T.

12:35

nods -- I think sometimes I'm like that, too.

lekon chekon

let me see if i have any more doubts that i need to get rid of.

Damkerng T.

@lekonchekon Some people may make you feel that way, but, personally, I believe that most native speakers care more about what you want to say, rather than your grammar.

(Of course, having good grammar is good, and can be helpful at work.)

lekon chekon

it's kind of more about self satisfaction for me. :P

Damkerng T.

Good! :D

CopperKettle

@DamkerngT. Truer words were never spoken.

Damkerng T.

12:40

Thanks! :D

CopperKettle

(0:

..

(0:

Damkerng T.

BTW, those (true) words of mine can be nitpicked, if someone really wants to. :-)

lekon chekon

okay.
Here's something.
I was on the bus the other day,and i was talking to a friend of mine,and i really wanted to call them once i got back home.

So,if i had said "If i called you when i got back home,would that be okay?"
or,"if i called you when i get back home,would that be okay?",would both the sentences have been correct?

Damkerng T.

Just to be sure, this is the sentence you want to analyze, right? If i called you when i got back home,would that be okay?

lekon chekon

yes. :p

Damkerng T.

12:48

I think the problem is, when did you or will you say that?

Hmm... probably not a serious problem.

I'm okay with both sentences.

lekon chekon

i already have said that. ._.

"would it be okay,if i called you when i got back home?"

okay.
I usually prefer taking a formal approach to almost every conversation,which leads me to use past tenses way more.

so all i need to have my concept cleared is,do i have to keep all the tenses in the past.

Damkerng T.

The past tenses in English are a bit tricky. We use past tenses for many things. (I shoudn't've changed 'tense' to 'tenses'.)

tchrist

@lekonchekon Only if you have a formally overreaching notion of how those apply.

lekon chekon

could you elaborate,please?

i usually don't find myself having gone too wrong with grammar,for i'm usually very cautious about it. :p

but i go by instinct,and my concepts aren't too clear.

and i don't really prefer mixing tenses.
I used to do that a few years ago,but now i find that a sentence seems way more beautiful when the tenses match.
But,then again,that's just me

i'm kind of weirdly obsessed with grammar. :p

and i'm sorry,if i'm coming off weird. :p

Damkerng T.

Well, perhaps not that weird. People come in all sizes and shapes. BTW, I find it curious that you don't consider punctuation and capitalization part of grammar. -- Please don't take my comment the wrong way. It's just pure curiosity.

If you want me to add some smileys, I will! :D

tchrist

13:00

@lekonchekon Did you ever meet somebody who doesn't even know that your country's capital city is in your country, let alone your continent?

lekon chekon

i was that somebody when i was 8. ._.)

my friends would tease me,and stuff for how ignorant i was. ._.

that is why i know so far as know the capital of turkey as well,let alone my country. xD

that is why i so far as know*

that last sentence i constructed,doesn't sound good. ._.

Damkerng T.

nods

lekon chekon

would you care to rephrase it for me? :p

Damkerng T.

But I think the meaning is clear.

That's why I know so far as even the name of the capital city of Turkey, not to mention the capital city of my own.

tchrist

@lekonchekon Did you notice that I am mixing tenses in that sentence (and this one)?

English doesn't have a sequence-of-tenses rule.

lekon chekon

13:06

i previously didn't.
now i do.

but if one went by that,things would be a lot easier.

i have this friend of mine who uses sentences like.

"I'd appreciate it,if you play a song on your guitar for me."

now,i don't know if that's correct or not,but to me "I'd appreciate it,if you played a song on your guitar for me" this is better.

Damkerng T.

Well, I wonder if a guitar with MP3 exists... :P

tchrist

Well that's just wrong. And not just once.

Should certainly be past in the hypothetical part. And no comma.

lekon chekon

the second one,or the first one? ._.)
If you say,the second one,i'll take it that my whole life has been a lie. ._.

tchrist

Both.

Don't use a comma at all in those. And when you write a comma, always put a space after it.

lekon chekon

okay, if there wasn't a comma in the second sentence, would it have been okay then?

tchrist

13:11

But the formula "If would appreciate it if you did this or that" wants the part in the if to be a past tense.

lekon chekon

yes.
i knew that much. :P

tchrist

> I'd appreciate it if you played a song for me.
I'd appreciate it if you could (please) play a song for me.
I'd appreciate it if you would (please) play a song for me.

Damkerng T.

@lekonchekon Yay! Here is one robo-dance for you!

┏(--)┛┗(-- )┓┗(--)┛┏(--)┓

lekon chekon

xD

Damkerng T.

@tchrist All good alternatives.

lekon chekon

13:13

okay.
How about.

"It would be great if you would turn down the volume a bit."
"It would be great if you turned down the volume a bit."

do both the sentences mean the same?

Damkerng T.

They're close, but not precisely identical, imo.

tchrist

Yep.

The would is the will of volition there.

Would you please bring me a cup of coffee?

lekon chekon

i see.

tchrist

Will you have some patience!

Damkerng T.

I wonder if people also say It'd be nice/great if you will ...

lekon chekon

13:18

i'm a teenager,if that doesn't justify my impatience,i don't know what will. :P

And sorry.

tchrist

> I’m a teenager; if that doesn’t justify my impatience, I don’t what will.

lekon chekon

._.) Well,i just feel plain stupid now.

You people must read a lot,am i wrong?

Damkerng T.

@lekonchekon If I may ask, why do you write commas and "i" that way? Is it because of your keyboard or input device?

@lekonchekon A lot is relative, I think. I wish I had read more than I have.

lekon chekon

keyboard.
i keep sitting before computer screen almost 24 hours a day.
it's been this way for about 8-9 years now.And that has led to my typing fast.

:p

Damkerng T.

@CopperKettle You're still working on a now-invisible answer, I think. :-)

CopperKettle

13:26

@DamkerngT. Lawd, it's hard. (0:

Damkerng T.

:D

CopperKettle

At least it will deepen my understanding of this issue. (0:

lekon chekon

do you think reading a lot can improve one's english drastically?

CopperKettle

@lekonchekon yes, and learning new words.

lekon chekon

^in that sentence could i use the COULD,instead of can?

Have you tried any of albert camus' works?

Damkerng T.

13:28

could should be fine, too, though it'd sound tentative.

I'm afraid I haven't.

0

Q: What does Ann Margret say, "Oh, dream maker" or "Old dream maker" in her song Moon River?

The song Moon River has been sung by many singers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_River I particularly like Ann Magret's version. I don't write the link to it on youtube for the obvious copyright reason. But I think you can easily find it by searching with the key words "Ann Margret" and "Mo...

listening

CopperKettle

@lekonchekon Yes, and I loved some of them.

@lekonchekon Myth about Sysiphys

Damkerng T.

Weird. Nobody thinks it's interesting or wants to help the OP?

Maybe I should convert my speculative comment to an answer.

CopperKettle

@lekonchekon And a nice book about a town during a plague epidemic

lekon chekon

I'm currently reading the stranger/outsider,one of the best books i've ever come across. :')

CopperKettle

@lekonchekon It's a nice book.

@lekonchekon The hero is quite strange.

lekon chekon

13:31

it's probably the one that won him the nobel prize.

CopperKettle

nods

lekon chekon

would you not say that adds to the quality of the book?

CopperKettle

What adds?

lekon chekon

and from now,if i go wrong constructing a sentence whilst having a normal conversation here,feel free to correct me. :p

CopperKettle

okay

Damkerng T.

13:33

10-4!

lekon chekon

10-4?

Damkerng T.

Ah, it's a code talk.

Ten-code

Ten-codes, officially known as ten signals, are brevity codes used to represent common phrases in voice communication, particularly by law enforcement and in Citizens Band (CB) radio transmissions. The codes, developed in 1937 and expanded in 1974 by the Association of Public-Safety Communications Officials-International (APCO), allow for brevity and standardization of message traffic. They have historically been widely used by law enforcement officers in North America but due to the lack of standardization, in 2006 the U.S. federal government recommended they be discontinued in favor of everyday...

10-4 is probably the most well-known one.

CopperKettle

"I doubt not God is good, well-meaning, kind,
And did He stoop to quibble could tell why
The little buried mole continues blind,
Why flesh that mirrors Him must some day die,
Make plain the reason tortured Tantalus
Is baited by the fickle fruit, declare
If merely brute caprice dooms Sisyphus
To struggle up a never-ending stair."

lekon chekon

are any of you currently in the US?

Damkerng T.

Nope. I live in Bangkok.

CopperKettle

13:38

Unless Russia has turned part of the US overnight, no.

Damkerng T.

But some of us here are from the US.

Some are native speakers from other continents.

lekon chekon

Donald trump. xD
I wonder what would happen to the world if he actually became the president of the US. xD

Damkerng T.

That makes two of us. :P

lekon chekon

i don't know much about how he became a powerful man,but i can't help but wonder,how a person like that could/can (i don't know ._.) ) be as rich as he is.

CopperKettle

We have a joke. "Honduras has been worrying me lately.." -- "Well, just don't scratch it." (The first guy is overly worried about the politics of a far-away land, the other doesn't even know what the first is talking about, and assumes it's some skin condition, or an euphemism for a private part)

lekon chekon

13:44

xD

CopperKettle

(0:

So I know zero about Trump. (0:

lekon chekon

what did putin have for thanksgiving dinner?

turkey.

CopperKettle

haha...

(0:

That's cool.

lekon chekon

And,thanks @CopperKettle for informing me about how chat rooms worked,and stuff. :'3
I really appreciate it. :3

CopperKettle

You're welcome!

(0:

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

14:13

Hullo @lekonchekon! Welcome to LO!

lekon chekon

hey.
:'D This feels so good.
Everyone here is so welcoming. :')

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I'm not welcoming. I'm MAR. Nice to meet you.

lekon chekon

Nice to meet you too. :)

CopperKettle

Animated cats anyone?

11

A: How do astronauts turn in space?

Although this has indeed "worked to bits" on the Physics and other SE sites it's worth looking at, for the sake of Space Exploration, the interesting history behind the analysis of the falling cat. For the fully rigorous description of the cat's righting reflex - perfectly in keeping with conserv...

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

14:29

@CopperKettle No thanks. I'm having lunch already.

Damkerng T.

14:48

Wow, I didn't know that my cat is this wonderful!

CopperKettle

@DamkerngT. Astro-cat!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@DamkerngT. Don't let Hagu see this, or you won't ever take control of him again.

Damkerng T.

Maybe he will keep turning/spinning! :-)

tchrist

@DamkerngT. How could you have ever doubted? :)

Damkerng T.

True, that! :-)

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

14:53

Smileys (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

Damkerng T.

(: Here is another smiley.

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