Language Overflow

Anonymous

23:00

must . . . not . . . click

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Is this like my resisting to find out @Dam's scores?

Well, if so, then @snail the only option you got is to burn down your laptop, computer, and iphone.

Anonymous

Resist + V-ing

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

But I used gerund!

Anonymous

*Resist + to V

Anonymous

You did use a genitive subject in an -ing clause. You can use genitive my or accusative me as the subject.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

23:02

Oh, wait.

Darn!

Anonymous

But you did not use resisting as a derived noun with the determiner my.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It should be resistance.

Anonymous

That works!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

But I can not edit anymore. :'(

Anonymous

If you want, I can edit it.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

23:03

I meant that in the first place.

Nah.

Anonymous

But it would make the chat log confusing. :-)

Anonymous

Sometimes I do that. I'll be thinking one ending and type or say another.

Anonymous

I remember as a child when I tried to say something like "Why are you so annoyed?" but accidentally said "Why are you so annoying?"

Anonymous

Needless to say, it annoyed them further ;-)

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M The page is actually taller than that, but I could only fit that much in one screen shot.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

23:09

Yay! I hope you are our new meta.SE reg!

Anonymous

Well, I post there on occasion.

Anonymous

I'm probably not going to be a regular.

Anonymous

23:24

0

A: ", with … " clause

First you say 'two' sports and then introduce the third one! This does not work that way. When you introduce two things and then later introduce the 'third' one, it may not take 'being'. There, 'being' means 'among'. I may probably write it in this way-- Football and volleyball are the two ...

Anonymous

I'm curious why someone upvoted this.

Anonymous

First, it's wrong. Second, the examples it gives don't work as alternative forms of the original.

Anonymous

This user gets a lot of inexplicable upvotes, it seems.

Anonymous

Is the effect of seeing a very high reputation strong enough that people assume the answers are correct and upvote?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Well, you know the answer.

Anonymous

23:26

That is, since many voters on ELL are, after all, language learners and not native speakers, do they rely on reputation more than their own ability to tell whether an answer is correct when deciding how to vote?

Anonymous

I think that happens on Japanese.SE.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Sadly, I think it happens on all language sites.

Anonymous

Of course, native speakers don't automatically know whether (for example) a grammatical explanation is correct or not.

Anonymous

For proof, look at votes on ELU.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I know, hehe.

Anonymous

23:28

So I don't mean to imply that it's entirely an L1 vs L2 thing.

jimsug

I've grown very careful of relying on "native-speaker"-sense

Anonymous

But I do think L2 speakers are at a disadvantage, and this makes it harder for many of them to evaluate answers when voting.

jimsug

And those answers that seem to do that, either because they don't give good examples or evidence.

Anonymous

@jimsug One funny thing about "native-speaker"-sense is how malleable it is :-)

jimsug

I almost think that there should be a percentage next to rep for answer authors, indicating what percentage of their rep is from answers.

It totally matters whether most of your reputation is from asking, or from answering questions, when people are establishing your competence on a site.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

23:30

Recommended reading for @Jim and @snail:

-1; do you know how bad I feel when I see a crappy question excluding me from the answerer list inheritedly just because I'm not a native speaker? If the comments below suffer a lack of logic, I'm very eager to hear your arguments against them. — inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M 4 hours ago

jimsug

Reputation is just a measure of how well you interact with the SE system.

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Inherently?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Kinda.

Anonymous

I don't think inheritedly works.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

That was before my rush to the physics' class, so I'm not surprised why I didn't think of that term.

Anonymous

23:32

But when I see it, I immediately think of inherently and interpret it as if you'd said that instead.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Whoa! Hehe: google.nl/…

I kinda did mean genetically.

Anonymous

In COCA, there are 2749 examples for inherently but 0 for inheritedly

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M What specifically did you mean?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

OK, that's a punch.

Anonymous

I don't mean to say that you necessarily should say inherently, it was just my best guess as to which word you meant.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

23:34

@snailboat I . . . dunno.

Anonymous

Oh, well, that's okay :-)

jimsug

I wonder whether some kind of quick primer on using BYU's corpora would be useful to ELLers

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It would.

But may I ask how many would bother to read it?

jimsug

shrug

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

In fact, IMO the very people who need it will be the ones who won't read it.

jimsug

23:38

If using corpus data in answers becomes fashionable, I bet others will start doing it.

Anonymous

Yeah, a while back I was planning on posting introductions to corpus tools on Japanese.SE and ELL.SE metas, but then I was too lazy.

Anonymous

@jimsug I've been doing it since 2013! :-)

Anonymous

People tend to like Google Books Ngram Viewer graphs better than most other corpus tools, I guess because they're prettier.

jimsug

The thing is, it usually matches native speaker expectations.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@snailboat That's cuz they're colorful.

jimsug

23:39

Which is good, because now you can say "I think this, and this data supports it" rather than "I think this".

Anonymous

I sometimes comment about the relationship between my intuition as a native speaker and the corpus data.

Anonymous

3

A: Chat to or chat with?

I think this is dialectal. When I search the British National Corpus (BNC), I find that strings like chatting to are quite common. In fact, chatting to is more common than chatting with in the BNC! However, when I search the Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA), I find that chatting...

jimsug

I love it when it's surprising, but I've found that most of the time, it isn't.

Does Google Books ngram viewer have stats on the data? Country of publication, etc...

Anonymous

Maybe I should check GloWbE

Anonymous

@jimsug You can totally break it down into the BrE and AmE corpora, but it's pretty unreliable, and you can't examine the data directly.

jimsug

23:42

@snailboat Yeah, that's the real problem IMO. You have to trust that google knows what you mean. Also, does it do POS-tagging? That is amazingly useful.

Anonymous

The closest you can get is searching Google Books, but you can't do the same sorts of searches. The data isn't processed in the same way and the interfaces don't allow it.

Anonymous

Plus Google's notoriously unreliable pagination gets in the way.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@snailboat Yeah, people here used to hate digital thermometers cuz they "couldn't analyze the data".

jimsug

I tend to use GloWbE, CoCA, and BNC, in that order, unless the question asks for a specific dialect/variant.

Anonymous

@jimsug Google Books Ngram Viewer did not have POS-tagged data when they first put the tool online, but the newer versions of the corpus do have it. Of course, it's Google's in-house POS tagger, since they have a major case of NIH syndrome.

Anonymous

23:44

I've used GloWbE in various answers, but again, it's not usually my first resort, even though it has a lot of useful information the other corpora are lacking, because it can be a bit unreliable. I often feel I need to investigate a lot of the corpus results to really know what I'm looking at.

jimsug

I sometimes wish I could upvote my own answers when someone else has edited it.

Anonymous

For example, you'll find it contains comment sections on various blogs and other websites which have authors from all around the globe.

Anonymous

Of course, you have that sort of problem with all the larger corpora, since they're too large to really be put together and verified by hand.

jimsug

@snailboat Yeah, this is true. But then, I tend to only use it when I don't care who the English speakers are.

Anonymous

But I think how big a problem it is depends on how the corpus was constructed . . .

jimsug

23:45

waitwaitwaitwaitwait

BYU has a Google Books corpora interface? **Whoa**

So, I'm trying to figure out whether I can ride Twitter trend waves, ask a question that's related to something trending, and then share the question for the promoter badges :P

Anonymous

Use your powers for good!

jimsug

Is leveraging the SE network to tackle important, trending issues "good"?

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