Language Overflow

Damkerng T.

00:05

Wattpad.com now requires us to join first before reading anything. :(

Damkerng T.

04:09

@Catija surprisingly, in India, it's all valid if you ask 'cost' instead of 'price' for a 4K TV! Trust me, I just bought it! :) — Maulik V yesterday

In India, for some speakers: cost == price.

In India, for some speakers: work is always countable.

In India, English is so different.

> Enough material is here to learn the difference between 'cost' and 'price.

In India, material can learn things.

In India, English is so different.

(If the above assertions are too strong, please read them as of I wrote "Generally, in India, ...". That would make things right, because in India, adding "generally" to everything we say will make what we say correct -- don't you see, it's "generally"; I didn't say "always".)

I wonder if we can make a complete list of these differences, the difference between Indian English and standard English.

Maybe someone already did, or already started to make such a list, but I still doubt if we will ever be able to, because...

in India, English is so different.

Then again, maybe it's not that difficult to make a complete set of grammar rules of Indian English.

Because for some speakers of Indian English, if Grammarly says it is correct, it is correct.

So Grammarly must know a lot about Indian English.

But wait, things may be more complicated than that...

Because it seems like, in their minds, when Grammarly says it is correct, it is correct.

But when Grammarly says it's incorrect, it may not be incorrect.

In India, English is so different.

And anything is possible.

Just a random thought by a learner of standard English...

Damkerng T.

05:01

blogs.transparent.com/dutch/…

> While some language purists frown upon this influx of English to the Dutch language, it’s really no surprise. So many Dutch speak excellent English.

Neat!

It's not the first European language I've read about that the speakers of such a language can speak English really well.

> As Gustav Meeuwenfiaster noted in a comment to Diego Hernandez's answer, Frisian is the closest to English. Dutch and Afrikaans come next. Danish, Norwegian and Swedish are also quite close. These are all Germanic languages and share a common (long extinct) ancestor.

quora.com/What-languages-are-closest-to-English

Anonymous

Dutch is very close to English!

Damkerng T.

Indeed!

I guess the biggest surprise (for me) is Afrikaans.

I remember you told me that once, but I still know virtually nothing about Afrikaans.

0

Q: Feeling amazing or amazed?

Is there anything wrong with saying "I was feeling amazing at the party with all my friends around"? Is it grammatically incorrect? Should this be said some other way?

Something is exciting because it makes you excited. It excites you.

But when someone is worrying... they may not worry us.

Anonymous

05:31

It developed from Dutch.

Anonymous

I'm reading about Japanese grammar.

Anonymous

Part of me just thinks I'll gradually get better (or less bad?) if I just read a lot, whether it's fiction or a grammar book

Anonymous

But I think the way your ability to use the language develops depends in part on what you read

Anonymous

After reading about grammar in Japanese, it becomes easier to discuss grammar in Japanese, etc.

Anonymous

The same thing goes for one's native language, I suppose.

Anonymous

05:41

Thinking about it...

Anonymous

People who read poorly written books about grammar themselves become better at describing language in the same inferior manner the book uses...

Anonymous

How much of our development comes from simply picking the right books to read?

Anonymous

I've long held a belief that picking your reference works wisely pays off

Anonymous

I think for many people, the first reference for everything is what they find on Google... and Google is no doubt a powerful tool

Anonymous

But filtering information well from a standpoint of ignorance is very hard...

Damkerng T.

11:16

nods

Jun 22 at 8:48, by Damkerng T.

Not really. Everyone are only experts in their own domains.

(I mean the part Everyone is only an expert in their own domains.)

Damkerng T.

11:34

0

Q: I who am your teacher, am helping you

I who am your teacher, am helping you. How to correct this sentence? Can you please help me how to correct this sentence? Is this correct sentence? It's I who am your teacher is helping you. Correct me if I am totally wrong. Thank you !

sentence-construction sentence-meaning

It's unfortunate that learners usually come up with strange sentences on their own.

(Sometimes their textbooks help them to come up with such sentences.)

> a) I, your teacher, am helping you. -- Am I a robot?

> b) I who am your teacher am helping you. -- Am I helping you or confusing you?

> c) I am your teacher who is helping you. -- Problem solved.

But such a learner may not be satisfied with just that. They want something, um..., more complicated:

> d) It's I who am your teacher who is helping you. -- (Learner) Wow, your English is so good!

> e) It's me who is your teacher who is help you. -- (Learner) Thank you so much. Can you teach me? Please, plz, plz.

(NOTE: The learner's thoughts were simulated emphatically, at the 75% level of confidence, with 25% imagination.)

Damkerng T.

12:03

Okay, Catija.but l also have to tell these things to my students. That's why I can't wait. But now , as you said. I will have to wait for your answers. — user124234 Jul 23 at 8:47

Apparently, they're not a learner. They are a teacher.

There are a few likely reasons, in my opinion, that make a teacher come up with such a question.

1. The teacher thinks this kind of sentence is important. They invented their own examples, and then felt unsure about their own sentences, so they asked.

2. The teacher found such a sentence in a grammar textbook (which is unfortunate), and they couldn't answer questions in the textbook, so they asked.

3. Their students asked them about this kind of sentence (for whatever reason), and they couldn't answer their students, so they asked.

One possible cause that can justify this kind of question is because the tests include it.

By the tests, I mean their standard tests.

If the tests emphasize this kind of sentence, whether it's rare or not, natural or not, and such, will be irrelevant.

Because the most relevant reason is that the tests have it.

Damkerng T.

13:19

> The "dignity" Hemingway speaks of proposes a form of respect for the reader, who should be trusted to develop a feeling for the meaning behind the action without having the point painfully laid out for him or her.

> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Show,_don%27t_tell

Oh, the "dignity" he speaks of is quite similar to my being "rhetoric"!

Instead of "having the point painfully laid out for him or her."

I trust them that they would realize the points by themselves, as a form of respect for the learner.

To think about (their translations): ป้อนถึงปาก เจ้าทฤษฏี นักปฏิบัติ

Damkerng T.

13:37

Something I found while searching for a good candidate phrase for ลองของ.

(In several dictionaries): to test the efficacy of the talisman

> The efficacy of the charm is said to have been tested with fair success even during ...

> --The west of Scotland in history by Joseph Irving (page 78)

> "We will go and raid some neighborhoods where they have goats, seize a goat, put the talisman around the goat and shoot it to test the efficacy," suggested Agama.

> --The Wizards Who Flew Into America by Tunde Akingbade (page 105)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

15:37

Oh, not much action going on.

Damkerng T.

It's interesting that some (native) speakers pronounce night as "noit".

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Are they Vikings?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I think this guy is American. :-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I realize I have a tendency of misspelling punctuation "punctutation".

0

Q: "me and my dad" are screwed

He's just to going to sell our information and me and my dad are completely screwed. I heard a lot of these subject-object things in movies or tv shows. It should be my dad and I from what I learned before (If I had not mistaken it), but I heard a lot like that somehow, is it correct to use ...

grammar sentence-structure

Hah! at the title.

Damkerng T.

:D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

15:42

Now let's read it to see why.

Damkerng T.

Nothing. I think screwed was used intentionally to draw the reader's attention.

The real question is My dad and I vs. Me and my dad.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

No, someone's going to sell their info.

Damkerng T.

Just an example.

("I heard a lot of these subject-object things ..." -- That implies that they could've picked any other sentence, but they chose this one. :-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I wanted to comment "I wonder where that sentence came from." but I realize some ELLers are dry chopsticks and I might get flagged.

Damkerng T.

17:16

0

Q: I'd like to know more about how to describe a series of accidents in a chronological order

I'm having a hard time describing what I did on a day to others in a chronological order. 10:00 AM - I woke up 11:00 AM - I left home and headed for a coffee shop to study English. 11:10 AM - I was waiting for the bus to come to the station for about an hour. 12:10 AM - I arriv...

conjunctions

Not sure about the reason (why they want to know how to express these kinds of stuff).

But IELTS probably has something similar.

It could just be their curiosity.

Though if it was about the timeline of something, their first original is already in the best way to describe the events, imo.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Other than these, I'd like to know more about how to describe a series of accidents in a chronological order. - Unfortunately, SE sites fail to accomplish their mission when it gets to tutorials. There are many out there; what makes SE unique is that it's for real questions; while you're just expressing your curiosity, but your request is not specific at all. — inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M 14 secs ago

@DamkerngT. He's curious about everything.

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Actually, that's good for learners.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Sometimes that leads to good questions, sometimes that just points to weird unanswerable dump.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. I disagree.

Being curious about everything isn't enough to be good for learners.

Damkerng T.

17:20

Well, I think you've already stated your points.

Oh, that's a different point!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

They also have to have the motive to strive to find the answer themselves.

@DamkerngT. I'm pointy today.

Damkerng T.

^ M W < > L <-- pointy awards

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

If they lack motive, they'll just end up asking lazy questions most of the times.

Damkerng T.

His question reminds me of a task in IELTS tests, actually.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Damkerng T.

17:24

Also, a lot of learners overlook their own power in their first language.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Ack!

(The same goes to their own problems in their first language.)

(Sometimes people want to fix language problems in L2 without fixing it in L1.)

Damkerng T.

18:10

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Huh?

Oh!

Damkerng T.

I should probably note it here, too.

in ELL's Cabin, 2 hours ago, by Damkerng T.

@snailboat Come to think of it, I think maybe (just maybe) it reflects that in their mind, "type" may subsume "write". So "mistype" also includes the "misspelling" meaning "spell something incorrectly" (i.e. "write" is not their regular activity), and hence "misspelling" implies not knowing the correct spelling (or spelling ignorance).

in ELL's Cabin, 2 hours ago, by Damkerng T.

It could be the other way around. In any case, I assume that they're either very young or very old.

in ELL's Cabin, 2 hours ago, by Damkerng T.

(So they think of the same word differently.)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I prefer not to think about it.

Sometimes my mind just gets locked.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

And here is from our interesting bounty question:

> 1a. I'd like to see you before I leave.
1b. I'd like to see you before I left.
2a. It'd be nice to see you before I leave.
2b. It'd be nice to see you before I left.

in ELL's Cabin, 21 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

I prefer 1a. I accept both 2a and 2b, though.

> (Actually, I think 2b is a little better than 2a.) To use 1b, I think I need to write a novel.

in ELL's Cabin, 20 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

@Catija You accept only 1a and 2a, I believe.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Where's my message?

Damkerng T.

18:13

Could be interesting to collect various opinions/acceptability on these sentences from several speakers.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M You said this:

in ELL's Cabin, 21 mins ago, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

K I made up my mind, I like left more.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ

Damkerng T.

Which wasn't very clear, imo.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I can talk about it if you like.

Damkerng T.

Sure! Please.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I won't cuz you said please.

Damkerng T.

18:15

Hah!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

So, I like leave more since it's the conclusion I'm getting at with some thought.

Damkerng T.

Uh-huh?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

But if it's a call for spontaneity, like when the speaker is MA, I'd choose left.

Damkerng T.

That's very confusing!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It is.

That's why I didn't extend what I said earlier.

Damkerng T.

18:17

O_o

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

o_O

That's better.

Damkerng T.

^_^

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

<_>

Damkerng T.

?_?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

؟_؟

Damkerng T.

18:26

I guess that's enough for the day. :D

0

Q: What is the exact difference between "stimulate" and"challenge"?

Considering these, would you please show me, as a native speaker, what you feel when you are to distinguish between these verbs semantically? I mean eventually what is the difference between challenge and stimulate, with respect to the links and sentences which I have provided? The MacMillan Dic...

word-difference

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

ᗡ: .yɒb ɘʜƚ ɿoʇ ʜǫuonɘ ƨ'ƚɒʜƚ ƨƨɘuǫ I

Damkerng T.

Oh, how did he link them together?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

These days, I'm more inclined to show my disgust with a downvote.

You know what I hate about Nima?

> Considering these, would you please show me, as a native speaker, what you feel . . .

Which basically means I, as a non-native speaker, don't have what it takes to answer his idiotic repetitive questions.

Damkerng T.

Ah, I remember that snailboat had to routinely remove that.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I once answered one of his questions about understanding a passage.

It was the previous profile page, so he could see from where I come from.

I never got a comment, upvote, downvote, anything!

An answer was later posted.

He commented over 5 times there, and then accepted that one.

Which was basically nothing different from mine, but was a little bit more up-goer five. >:|

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

19:20

@Dam I'm pretty sure this is your favorite SE question:

338

Q: Nice scientific pictures show off

Task Show off your best scientific illustration ! The main purpose of this question is to share beautiful scientific pictures, preferably with an educational aspect. Content Your post must contain a nice picture and the associated code. One can post several pictures, but it must be done in...

diagrams 3d technical-drawing fun big-list

Damkerng T.

Ohhhh

I always wanted to draw something like that in high school.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Oh. . .So robots do dream of electronic sheep. . .I mean plots!

Damkerng T.

I guess so!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@[backwards]M.A. Ramezani: Indeed. It's impossible to intuit the difference between "all people" and "everyone". — TRomano 7 mins ago

BTW, I would not know how to explain you. :) The word after the verb explain without any prepositions is often considered as its object. A more correct sentence to say would be "Explain it to me please." Hope that helps. — inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M 10 secs ago

I wouldn't know how to make it simpler.

Damkerng T.

19:37

^Nice!

I revise my opinions on 1a-b, 2a-b.

All of them are acceptable.

But to use 1b and 2b, I'd just need to write a novel. That's all.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

What is "arms" in "arms control"? — Jim Reynolds 5 hours ago

That smart do|t. . .

Damkerng T.

Good point! -- Umm... I mean the comment!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Dam I've shot my comment here:

@Nima The bounty is going to end in less than a day. I suggest you award it to the person who deserves it. People have invested time in answering your question, and it'd be rude not to say "thanks". Which means, you'd drive away answerers from answering your question if you disappoint them. — inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M 1 min ago

Damkerng T.

That's fair, though it's his choice.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

That's why I suggested, not obligated.

Damkerng T.

19:49

23 hours left.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

No one obliges me to say hullo when I meet someone.

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure what the system would do if he chose not to award anyone.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It wouldn't award it to Catija, at least, while she deserves it.

OMG I'm making too much sense here:

But not any chat message. I myself come from where MathJax is a vital way of expressing yourself. But in your post, you've just chosen a rant-ish way to express what you want; and not explained its benefits other than in its comments. That, my friend, along with the fact that you didn't search for possible past FRs (i.e. lack of research), is the reason for seven downvotes. And you're idea is usually supported by people like me, so that's why it got four upvotes. I couldn't put it in a more straightforward fashion than this. — inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M 3 mins ago

BTW @Dam I added something to porkchat's list:

Wait for it. . .

WAIT FOR IT. . .

Here: ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

And this: ̿ ̿'̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=(•_•)=ε/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿

Damkerng T.

20:15

Neat!

Damkerng T.

22:54

@LightnessRacesinOrbit: You've gone quite quickly from asking for the meaning of "set phrase" to being sure that those are not examples of set phrases. Perhaps see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_phrase Certainly, the term "set phrase" does not imply that anyone isn't free to use any equivalent idiom they wish, and certainly "draw the line at" is a set phrase. Anyway, if you feel this is trolling then you delete comments and I'll follow, but if this discussion adds something worthwhile to the description of "guilty pleasure" as a set phrase then let's keep it. — Steve Jessop 3 hours ago

^Worth noting.

Also, I know that I'll want to check out what "set phrase" really is and is not some day.

Damkerng T.

23:14

If someone reads "science-fiction for its practitioners" as "prisoners"... if I read it like that, it's obvious that a lot of skimming was going on.

Damkerng T.

23:54

2

A: How to use "as … as"

Neither of those sounds natural. In the first, you are not using the as {modifier} as pattern correctly. The cheetah is almost as fast as an automobile. In the second, you are not using the so that pattern correctly. We took the express, so that we could arrive on time. With your example: Th...

> The company is progressing so rapidly that it is impressing everyone these days.

It's not everyday that "impress" is used in the progressive.

Hmm... the sentence sounds a bit like personification.

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