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15:37
Word play is fun.
Why Oh no! @Dam?
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M My "Oh, no!"?
It was for my surprise. :D
Well the only thing I say when I'm surprised is bah. . .Or maybe even Oh?.
@Dam shouldn't you add some feeds here?
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Oh, you like ELL feeds here too?
It doesn't need to be all of the newest questions. . .Just one or two of your favorite tags.
@DamkerngT. Not all of them, no.
I'll have to admit... I don't really use ELL tags. :-)
I mean, I tried ...
but after a while, it became obvious that...
everything on ELL is about . :P
So I developed a new strategy: go hunt down interesting things.
And post them here to reflect, discuss, etc.
Or post them on ELL's main room if I think maybe it may need more attention from others.
15:47
Well, we need to think.
What questions are mostly discussed here?
They're either meaning, article, or tense.
To the ELL's tags!
Well, definitely, the answer isn't or .
They're too broad.
Let's gather up some stats @Dam king.
Where's that paper. . .
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M is like the default tag around here. :D
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M What paper?
You can say that again.
@DamkerngT. I wanna write down what the 15 newly discussed questions in this room have as tags.
A-ha!
That would take some effort.
What the heck!
Why would be a useful tag?
ELL's tagging system is a big mess.
BIG I say!
Hehe!
I suppose that is about the pattern: I wish I had ...
15:59
Yeah, but a tag about one word isn't useful at all.
Maybe something like ?
I wonder if our users will think of that tag when they ask about wish!
Ah-ah! You're making me scroll down every time you say something. Hush!
16:20
@Dam it occurs to me that , , and are the best tags for feeds.
For now, that's suffice.
Let's see how often those questions will come up.
Wow! That's quite a lot!
That's because it just searched for them.
And posted all of them it found in the newest questions here.
I think 'got jumped' is probably a GR question.
16:30
Disagree. It can't be easily answered with a dictionary.
Note that off'n is dialect for off of, not off in. And this was written in the 19th century, before the advent of safety razors, so what Twain has in mind is something like this. — StoneyB 2 days ago
Hmm... shouldn't it be off on? (instead of off of)
16:43
Hi.
How are you?
@DamkerngT.
Emily Mann said she and a friend arrived late to the film and took a seat in the back.
Do you think the preposition "to" is fine here?
I think the writer should have used the preposition "for"
"Arrived late to the film?"
"for" would sound wrong.
"to" may work because the film is not a place.
But we don't use the preposition to after the verb arrive?
The normal one is 'at'.
16:48
Yes.
I checked in the dictionary.
And it says we shouldn't use the preposition to after the verb arrive.
@user62015 If you say for, it'd sound like they're there to do something to the film.
But I'm no at expert.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I agree.
I always get it the wrong way around.
But to is also wrong.
Where did you find the sentence?
@DamkerngT. In the universe.
Evening all!
Bah, the preposition master is here.
(Also it's late to the film, not arrived at the film.)
I don't get the meaning of the last line in a poem's stanza..
16:51
@CopperKettle Context, context. . .I mean, post it here.
"“Then he ’ll ride among the hills
To the wide world past the river,
There to put away all wrong;
To make straight distorted wills,
And to empty the broad quiver
Which the wicked bear along."
How could one empty the broad quiver which his adversaries bear along?
Maybe by being a target to them?
The poem is here
BBL (0:
Hmm, I'll think about it @Copper.
Is this quiver a container for arrows
and used figuratively?
Could be.
@Copper why not ask it on ELL?
'Cause lit-crit is off-topic.
16:56
Is it on-topic on ELU?
Yes, "[arrive] late to the party" is common.
Because it's not exactly "arrive to", it's "late to".
@DamkerngT. Okay.
Making sense.
I appreciate your hard work.
He's drowning in sweat already.
@Dam king when to use COCA, when to use ngrams and when to use PEU?
17:03
I use all of them, depending on which one gives the best clues.
[arrive] late at|to|for the: corpus.byu.edu/coca/x1.asp?c=coca&q=40663027
In this case, # of examples in COCA is too few.
Akh, where's a link to PEU?
Ah, PEU is a book! :-)
No online versions?
Not that I'm aware of. But I have its app version.
Well of course 270.1 is book sectioning, but I'm thinking it must have something online.
I only could download its pdf.
3rd edition.
:\
Hey @Dam 5 editions were out, right?
17:17
Oh, I think mine is like 4th.
11 megabytes. . .Hmm . . .The Blue book is 10.4 MBs.
Anonymous
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I'm sure you can find my real name if you try hard enough, but that's kinda creepy.
At least tell me which chatroom.
ELU?
Anonymous
I don't think I've said my full name in any SE chat rooms.
You mean you never chatted with your full name as your username?
Anonymous
17:23
I don't think so
A-ha! arrived late at the *,arrived late to the *,arrived late for the * on Google Ngram will return no result for 'to' if we choose British English.
Whatever, all of this is just a joke.
I can make better uses of my time, like chatting here.
@DamkerngT. I thought Britons loved to.
It seems like 'at' still prevails, but 'late for the meeting' and 'late to the party' are gaining.
18:00
There are not many nouns that can license (or allow) a to-infinitive as its (post-)modifier. Among these are order, way, ability, time, attempt, right, power, desire, reason. For most other nouns, you'll need to use of VERB-ing instead (e.g. expense of making ...). — Damkerng T. 37 secs ago
Licensing, licensing, licensing.
(To verify, try Google Ngram for *_NOUN to _VERB_.)
Don't you ever stop making smart comments!
Sigh I thought I'd answer something today also, but turns out. . .No.
Wow! 9 CV reviews today. . .
18:12
Oh! -- looking...
It's 5 now.
Hey I need 24 rep till 2k tools.
@DamkerngT. 2 of them are unjustified.
0
Q: Shall I use 'pursue my passion for' or 'on'?

Rescy_I want to say something like Being interested in politics, I have pursued my passion for/in it by.... Under this context shall I use for or in?

This is actually borderline, imho.
I voted to leave open.
It's not proofreading.
Some people think because they didn't feel like answering the question should be closed.
IMO they have provided a source of confusion.
Anonymous
It is strange that the title and body ask different questions. Which did they intend? 'In' or 'on'?
Anonymous
18:17
Not proofreading.
But it's salvageable through a comment, not a VTC.
I left it open too.
But jihoon's was a dup.
@snailboat They weren't smart enough for a better VTC reason.
@DamkerngT. Yep.
Anonymous
0
Q: "As beautiful a girl as you are" - subject / object / complement

jihoonI'd like to get used to "As (adjective) a (noun) as ~" sentence pattern by making 3 different sentences.(subject, object, complement) As beautiful a girl as you are would never date me. I think this is grammatically possible because "As beautiful a girl as you are" serves as a subject...

Anonymous
I think 1 and 2 would be better with a girl as beautiful as you
18:19
Wait, how many 'the same girl' questions do we have? 3?
3k.
@snailboat Yes, but some learners are determined to use what they insist for no good reason.
Dunno if Jihoon is one of those.
For example, Nima is one of them:
Thanks. But, this is not what I wonder about. — nima 28 mins ago
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M They're starving on input diet, probably voluntarily.
Anonymous
Interesting that Mike Jr is an Indian English speaker
Oh, it's that obvious with just one answer!? That's amazing!
No, not really.
18:24
looking for clues...
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. Yes.
A-ha!
> as per your requirements
Anonymous
I actually thought so before I got to as per, but that was a strong hint, too :-)
I use a lot of as per requests.
18:25
Maybe I was Indian and I didn't know it. Achooo!
Anonymous
As per is, as we discussed before, used much, much more often by InE speakers (and speakers in the surrounding area)
Anonymous
Of course, AmE and BrE speakers use as per, but not in the same way and maybe 5% as often
I'll admit that I can't tell anything before as per.
Anonymous
You didn't find will suspect in the first sentence?
I read it again, hmm... not sure, I think it's possible for some speakers.
18:26
I've used it a couple times in meta.chem iirc.
Anonymous
Presumably non-native speakers.
Anonymous
I mean, "I will simply say" is fine in AmE, but not in this context.
But yes, the nativeness rating dropped a bit at will.
Hah!
Smart one!
Of course, native Englishers love contractions.
Anonymous
This use of as per is decidedly non-native.
18:28
Even made up contractions.
Anonymous
Contractions occur naturally.
I don't recall using it in the beginning of a sentence.
@snailboat Most of the times, I realize I'm contracting thingies 'cause pronunciation.
Sometimes I drop funny stuff.
Anonymous
Yeah. Contractions in writing reflect forms in speech, generally.
Anonymous
There are a number of reasons you might choose not to contract something.
Eh, I just noticed Nima's question is itself un-natively.
Anonymous
18:30
Formality isn't really a good reason anymore. Contractions are common in most formal English.
@snailboat Emphasis.
Anonymous
But it's true that not using any contractions sounds extremely stiff and formal (and unnatural and robotic)
Anonymous
Yes, certain types of emphasis.
Anonymous
> I can NOT believe you're actually a sentient snail! I thought you were a human being this whole time!
Anonymous
18:31
Another reason is for non-verbal negation:
Anonymous
> I can [not go to the store]. ← I am capable of [not going to the store].
Anonymous
This is not possible with cannot or can't
Anonymous
Sometimes people just speak a little more precisely than normal.
I was uncorrected once when I wrote: With this, we can not only ... but also ...
Though the clause between not only and but also was a bit long.
18:34
By who?
Auto-incorrect?
By a colleague who was supposed to be better at English than me.
I can imagine:
> Hey, @Dam kingT-2000, look at my ELL repz. I hope you've done enough research to know what's correct grammar and what's not.
Well said! I also got upset in chat when I saw this in the queue. — inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M 1 min ago
Come to think of it, I think nima's question is ambiguous. It'd be better with a more specific context, but then the question would risk looking like a proofreading request.
18:41
Whenever it isn't?!
4
Q: Fancyref with fmtcount

Nicholas HamiltonWhen I use fancyref with the vario package option: \usepackage[vario]{fancyref} \newcommand{\figvref}[1]{\figurename~\vref{#1}} \newcommand{\tabvref}[1]{\tablename~\vref{#1}} The above would produce a result in such a way that, for example, when referencing a figure (lets say Figure 1) residin...

TeX guys have loads of fancy-named packages; literally.
:D
Fancy names or "fancy" as a name every once in a while is fun!
Well, it's a bit more than once in a while.
Anonymous
Fancy rats.
Anonymous
The fancy rat is a domesticated brown rat (Rattus norvegicus), which is the most common type of pet rat. The name fancy rat derives from the idea of animal fancy or the phrase "to fancy" (to like, or appreciate). Fancy rats have their origins as the targets for blood sport in 18th- and 19th-century Europe. Specially bred as pets since then, fancy rats now come in a wide variety of colours and coat types and there exists several rat fancier groups worldwide. Fancy rats are commonly sold as pets in stores and by breeders. Domesticated rats are physiologically and psychologically different from their...
Anonymous
Smart little guys :-)
18:46
Eh? Why is it fancy?
Anonymous
Wikipedia 'splains.
@Dam do you have a Tex distribution?
@snailboat Eh? I called them cheese chasers.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I got MiKTeX (a rather old version), with pdfTeX attached.
Anonymous
It's much the same use of fancy you find in cat fancier
Goes wondering: Is Jerry a fancy rat?
Anonymous
18:48
I thought Jerry was a mouse.
@DamkerngT. Good good.
A-ha!
Fancy pets!
Anonymous
Mice and rats are different species.
Is there also a fancy hippopotamus?
Anonymous
They're distinguished in common speech in English, though they aren't in many languages.
18:48
@snailboat My petology isn't that strong.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M :D
Unsurprisingly.
Anonymous
So most English speakers wouldn't mix up rats and mice, but it's simply not a distinction people make outside of technical contexts in many languages.
Anonymous
However, some English speakers do mix them up.
Anonymous
Not me, since I've had dozens of pet rodents over the years :-)
18:49
Mixed up
@snailboat Strangely enough, Thai doesn't make any difference between mice and rats. Just between mice and computer mice.
So that's why @Dam knows computers a lot.
Anonymous
Yeah, Japanese is the same way. ネズミ for both.
Anonymous
But, y'know, you can distinguish between rats and mice in Japanese. Or, I imagine, just about any language.
Anonymous
It just isn't normally done.
18:50
Turkish did have words for both, but I don't recall the word for rat.
It's obscure now.
nods -- with some post-modifiers. :P
Anonymous
Well, in Japanese, there are several ways you could do it.
Anonymous
ハツカネズミ(二十日鼠、廿日鼠、鼷、House mouse)は、ネズミ目(齧歯目)ネズミ科 ハツカネズミ属の1種。学名は Mus musculus。 == 形態 == ハツカネズミの成獣は頭胴長が57 - 91mm、尾長が42 - 80mmである。また体重は約10 - 25gである。体色は変異に富み、白色、灰色、褐色や黒色となる。短毛で腹側は淡い。耳と尾は非常に短い毛に覆われる。後足はアカネズミ属(Apodemus)にくらべ短く、15 - 19mmほどである。走るときの歩幅は約4.5cmであり、また最大45cmまでジャンプすることができる。糞は黒色で長径4 - 6mm、短径1 - 3mmで、かび臭い。鳴き声は甲高い。 若いオスとメスは簡単に識別できないが、メスはオスに比べ肛門と生殖器の間の長さが比較的短い。メスは5対の乳腺と乳首を持つが、オスでは発達しない。性成熟時の明瞭な違いは、オスは睾丸が発達することである。この睾丸は体に比べて大きく、また体内に引っ込めることができる。胸部にあるエンドウ豆大の胸腺に加えて、待ち針の頭大の第二の胸腺が首の気管付近にある。 == 生態 == 草地、田畑、河原、土手、荒れ地、砂丘などをはじめ、家屋や商業施設の周辺などの様々な環境に生息している。雑食性で種子や穀物類、雑草や花を採食するほか、小型の昆虫類も捕食する。また、汚染された飼料...
Anonymous
Hatsuka-nezumi!
18:51
I bet @Copper would say in Russia, rats have two words for humans.
Oh, a manga!
Anonymous
Yakov Smirnoff!
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. A manga?
Hatsuka-nezumi
Anonymous
That means 'mouse'!
18:52
Or rather, two words for a robot, a boat and a diamondoid.
I clicked on Images and Google gave me lots of manga pages!
Anonymous
Neat!
Anonymous
Hatsuka is 'twenty days' (often used for the 20th day of the month)
@snailboat OMG I can detect two words in there: 10-25g and 4.5 cm.
18:53
(Somehow Hatsuka-nezumi reminds me of Miku Hatsune.)
Anonymous
10-25g is probably 5 words, and 4.5 cm is probably 4 words
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Amazing! Keep going, and you can speak Japanese real soon!
I can speak Neptunian now. Does that count?
Anonymous
Juu kara ni-juu guramu or ten to twenty-five grams, and yon ten goo senchi or four point five centimeters
@snailboat 9 words!
18:55
Yes! (Though I think Plutonian is trending at the moment.)
Anonymous
Oh, definitely. <3 Pluto
Anonymous
Mystery of the day: why does Mickey Mouse, a mouse, have a pet dog?
Plutonians suck.
@snailboat Eh? Was there a reason for that?!
Anonymous
Well, think about it.
Anonymous
18:56
Goofy walks and talks, wears clothes, and so on.
Anonymous
But Pluto is Mickey's pet.
Anonymous
They're both dogs, right?
Anonymous
Isn't that confusing??
They're different.
Anonymous
18:57
Free Pluto!
Due to a difference.
In difference.
Wait, Goofy talks, too?
About the difference of difference.
@DamkerngT. Define talk.
Anonymous
Pretty sure Goofy talks.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Talk like a human.
18:58
He does.
We chatted up a while ago.
I thought he just made noises.
Anonymous
I'm not a BrE speaker, so I may be off the mark here, but I think you might not want to say chat up there :-)
He told me he's sick of these cheesy sick humor thingies out there nowadays.
@snailboat Just hit my mind.
@snailboat I was expecting a 404.
Anonymous
> British informal
>
> to start a conversation with someone because you want to have a sexual or romantic relationship with them
>
> 'When I left, Sally was getting chatted up by the barman.'

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