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Anonymous
00:01
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M After some more research, I wrote my own answer:
Anonymous
0
A: Chat to or chat with?

snailboatI think this is dialectal. When I search the British National Corpus (BNC), I find that strings like chatting to are quite common. In fact, chatting to is more common than chatting with in the BNC! However, when I search the Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA), I find that chatting...

00:18
Yay!
I just found an interesting ambiguity in The Fugitive.
> There's someone in my house...Richard...he's trying to kill me.
The word was ambiguous. The intonation was ambiguous. As a result, Richard was accused of murdering his wife.
@snailboat I saw that before seeing your ping.
But I didn't get a notification. O.O
Word of the Day: anacoluthon
Ouch. . .
@Dam ever wondered what burnt crisp would look like?
Must look like burnt crisp. :D
00:29
No, must look like the OP of this question:
-3
Q: Why is the blank profile sentence not grammatically correct?

Ellie KesselmanWhen a user has not chosen to provide any details on his profile, the boilerplate text is: Apparently, this user prefers to keep an air of mystery about them. That reads horribly, and isn't grammatically correct. There are lots of alternative ways to word the sentence that would be better. ...

Singular they again. . .
Take a look at the comments!
Kinda like "It's not correct until I say it's correct." :P
Well, I was intentionally postponing Wikipedia linking, so they'd brag about their ELU rep. . .
Not really though, I was looking for some drama.
Meanie me.
Which reminds me that rep points are not always reliable.
If they mean anything at all.
00:34
How can you say that after I has 110 repz today?
;-;
Oh, I'm sorry! :D
pats MAR...
Oh, the autoincorrect didn't correct repz. . .
It knows it's standard English.
Anonymous
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M There isn't a singular they. They is plural. Check my rep on EL&U SE please. I assure you that I have shown adequate effort in understanding correct versus incorrect grammar. — Ellie Kesselman 32 mins ago
@EllieKesselman I apologize that you do not know English very well, but this nonsense has been raised before and it has already been thoroughly smacked down with the status-denied it deserves. I suggest you start reading here and keep reading until enlightenment dawns. — tchrist 3 mins ago
00:36
BTW I did check their ELU rep after that.
Anonymous
I don't have much rep on ELU either, but I have more than Ellie. Does that mean I can prove by fiat that singular they exists, simply by referring to my slightly higher rep?
Anonymous
Because that's going to make linguistics a lot easier.
Such a pity repz has to be in their hands.
Anonymous
Oh, I saw a good list of fallacies recently.
Anonymous
00:38
Oh, where was it!? Maybe I saw it on my laptop.
K MA, don't freak out. It's just 5:13 a.m. and you aren't asleep.
@tchrist What about "themselves" rather than "them"? It is a shame that you feel the need to be so rude. I suggest you read the rules about Being Nice on Stack Exchange until enlightenment dawns. — Ellie Kesselman 2 mins ago
There was some popcorn here after all!
Anonymous
That's a good question! Why doesn't Ellie ask it as a question on an English site?
I remember something about it on ELL.
@Stoney was explaining it to me in chat the other day.
Anonymous
Well, if we already have a question about it, that's great.
Anonymous
Otherwise, someone should post it. :-)
00:44
I think it readily was something along the lines of Nathan's answer: It's archaic.
I'm not very sure, but somehow the nativeness rating for them is going lower and lower on my scale.
I think LeP had asked the question.
@DamkerngT. I read their name as German.
nods -- But names are not necessarily associated with people's first languages.
BTW LeP asked something on meta.SE, this time 7 up boats or what.
I could be named Noonien Singh, with my first language being English.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Nice!
(assuming that my username is my real name)
00:48
But there's little reason for a Thai to username themselves something Italian.
6
Q: How does adding two comments to a question affect deletion?

LePressentiment [Source:] And the OP can prevent a question from being deleted by making two comments to the question. The comment above was upvoted 39 times, but to which questions does it apply? I can see that the comment applies to questions > 365 days, but what about questions ≤ 365 days?

Anonymous
You know, a lot of Thai people in the US have American names to go with their Thai names
This was the question.
^Argh! My starred message is ungrammatical. (It should be 'are'.)
Going to feed his cat...
@snailboat That's more because English is the target language.
Anonymous
Well, in America, people have all sorts of names.
Anonymous
00:51
People don't necessarily give names like Bob and Sarah to their kids just because they're born in the US.
@snailboat Oh! Neat! :D
Have you run into someone named Usa (reading "u-sa")? :-)
Anonymous
I was looking through the top 1000 baby names for 2014, and names like Giuliana, Zainab, and Demetrius were on the list.
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. Only in Japanese.
Aww... Usa (อุษา) is a legit Thai name, BTW.
Anonymous
And many of those Giulianas, Zainabs, and Demetriuses are going to be native speakers of English.
Anonymous
00:55
By the way, sometimes people who start families in foreign countries try to find names that are common in both the original language/culture and the new language/culture.
Anonymous
Like, Japanese and English Joe.
Anonymous
They're pronounced about the same.
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. Ohh, I see.
Anonymous
I don't have a really good knowledge of Thai names.
@snailboat I was thinking about that too!
There are a lot of non-so-complicated Thai names that sounds passable in English.
Though "Susan" in Thai is not a good idea. (สุสาน means cemetery)
Also "Porn" (พร) is a valid Thai name, but it would sound weird in English. :P
Anonymous
00:58
Eep!
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. Well, you wouldn't pronounce the /r/ in Thai, right? :-)
Nope!
Oh, someone made a list! pantip.com/topic/31259696
Anonymous
Neat!
Anonymous
I was trying to think of Japanese names that worked besides Jō…
Anonymous
I think most of the Nikkei I know (children of Japanese parents who moved to the US) have names that would be regular in Japan, and there's nothing really unusual about that.
Anonymous
01:04
But English speakers do tend to pronounce them very differently than they'd be pronounced in Japanese, and "English speakers" here usually includes the people bearing those names!
@DamkerngT. Of all the names in the world. . .
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M There are some worse than that.
If you found a Thai writing their nickname "Pu", be sure that their nickname is really pronounced "poo". :P
I bet there's also 'fart'?
Anonymous
For example, I know a girl named Sakura who was born and raised in California, and she pronounces her name /sə.ˈkjʊr.ə/
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Probably not pronounced exactly the same, and probably not a very popular name.
01:07
Much to my depression.
@snailboat Oh, differently from how it would be pronounced in Japanese.
@snailboat I feel dizzy pronouncing it that way.
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. Japanese would be straightforwardly [sa↑kɯ.ɾa]
nods -- I wouldn't expect the schwas.
Anonymous
The biggest difference is probably the accent on the second syllable, suh-CURE-uh, which results in those two schwas
Anonymous
01:11
Along with the palatal glide that isn't present in Japanese
Anonymous
But hey, all the vowels are different.
Anonymous
And the /r/ is pretty different.
Anonymous
And the pattern of pitch and the rhythm are different.
Anonymous
So when I first heard her name in English, I didn't realize it was a pronunciation of Sakura.
Oh!
BTW, to show how popular "Porn" in Thai names is...
This is the Wikipedia page of one of our Miss Universe winners: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bui_Simon
Note the name: Porntip Nakhirunkanok
:D
Anonymous
01:14
Does Nakhirunkanok have a meaning?
Hmm... I'm sure it has one.
But nothing is common in there.
Anonymous
My friend says: "As in Suppaporn 'superporn'"
Haha! That works as a name too!
Anonymous
Sunthorn sounds cool in English
Each word in นาค-หิรัญ-กนก [nak-hirun-kanok] can have several meanings, but all of them have one common meaning, "gold". So I guess, maybe they wanted it to mean "gold-gold-gold". :D
@snailboat It also has a nice meaning in Thai, too.
สุนทร (Sunthorn) ~ sweet, beautiful
Anonymous
01:19
Oh! That is nice.
Oh! An interesting phrase!
@EllieKesselman Nothing wrong with a non-reflexive use here: when Zombie Rules attack (that’s linguist Mark Liberman’s delightful term for these brain-eating monsters), anyone who can’t keep their wits about them long enough to look at actual corpus data and reputable reference material will get their brain eaten by prescriptivist poppycock. It’s a sorry condition but it doesn’t have to be contagious, and shouldn’t be. I suggest you ask your “question” on ELU where it belongs. — tchrist 26 mins ago
With a quick search, I found this post on Language Log:
 
2 hours later…
03:28
0
Q: Why can "that is" be omitted in this relative clause?

aminIn the sentence below, "That is" before adjective permanent has been dropped. There is a saying, which says, “The only thing permanent in life is change” According to this link, The relative pronoun and BE are not "dropped" when BE is followed by an adjective. So my question is that how...

Something trivial enough that I couldn't think of its rule at first glance.
Thankfully, we have got professor Lawler's answer:
20
A: What is a noun modifying clause?

John LawlerThe term you probably want in this case is Relative Clause. There are other kinds of adjective clauses (i.e, noun-modifying clauses), but relatives are by far the most common and the most complex. In particular, relative clauses, like many subordinate clauses, are subject to a variety of deletion...

03:56
> High-falutin. An old anecdote relates how a tipsy man (Dr Johnson, according to one version) refused the offer of a friendly arm to lean on. 'I'm not so drunk that I can't walk without you help,' he said. And then, after pausing to think for a moment, rephrased his refusal: 'I'm not so inebriated as to be incapable of unassisted preambulation.'
>
Hardly any improvement in clarity, though it might have raised a laugh.
>
The truth is, the best word for 'drunk', in most contexts, is *drunk*.
> --Reader's Digest: How to Write and Speak Better
:-)
The book has this rhyme (in a high-falutin version of the original):
> Coruscate, scintillate, asteroid,
Your constitution exercises my cogitations,
Can you recognize it?
^*'perambulation'
0
A: Is there any alternative way to say something you 'used to [infinitive]'?

ChadSome ideas: I formerly played golf. I loved her, once. I lived in Australia before. But I'm not sure there's a universal substitute that would apply to all of these sentences.

Hey, that's the same thing as my comment!
For state things, you can use once. "I loved her once." "I once lived in Australia." For action things, when you have a time phrase, saying the same thing in the simple past tense is not very different from used to; for example, "I played golf every Saturday", "I played golf once a month." And you can always add, "but not anymore". — Damkerng T. Sep 6 '14 at 0:22
I don't like the top-voted answer much.
It's too formulaic (i.e. using would), and it needs a subordinate clause.
It would be weird to open a conversation with, "Hey, did you know that I would play golf every Saturday?"
Hmm... probably not as weird as I thought, after I added more surrounding words to it.
04:22
When reading dictionaries or grammar books, we have to be careful not to fall into our own misconclusions.
For example, here is an excerpt from Geoffrey Leech's Meaning and the English Verb:
> Today, this month, this year, this century, etc. refer to a period including the present moment: with them, the Present Perfect and Past Tense are virtually interchangeable. If there is a difference of meaning between I went to the dentist today and I have been to the dentist today, it is that the second focuses on the result aspect of the verb.
A literal mind (which perhaps includes most of the learners when reading a similar text) would read that as:
Today, this month, this year, this century, etc. can be used only with either the Present Perfect or Past Tense.
Interchangeably.
Oh, @snailboat! Remember our discussion about the use of the present perfect with "this morning" when the speaking time is in the afternoon?
Anonymous
Um, maybe! :-)
I just found this parapraph!
>
*This morning, tonight, this March, this Christmas*, etc. refer to a period which is part of a larger period including the present moment (as ‘this morning’, for instance, is part of ‘today’). With *this morning / afternoon / evening*, it is sometimes said that the Present Perfect indicates that the period referred to is not yet over – that, for example, it is possible to say *I have been to the dentist this morning* at 11 a.m., but not at 3 p.m. This distinction, if made, accords with the principle that the Present Perfect has to involve a period extending up to the present. But other sp
Anonymous
Interesting!
Ah, found it! Our old discussion:
Jun 29 at 12:03, by Damkerng T.
> I saw / have seen him this morning – he came to borrow a hammer.
Jun 29 at 12:08, by Damkerng T.
https://books.google.com/books?id=ryasAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA42
 
5 hours later…
09:31
0
Q: Should it be names of places/name of places

sacI can't figure which one is grammatically correct. The names of the places I visited in the country are... The name of the places I visited in the country are...

Now I'm really O.o at that question.
This could be a tricky question, since I've found "the name of the places" in some books on Google Books
Hehe hi @Copper.
Hi, @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M!
(but the sense differs a bit)
I'm tackling with this guy whom I've found out not to have known what they were asking in the first place.
09:33
What guy?
-2
A: until + perfect present / present

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.MShort answer: From a "meaning" point of view: I will study hard until *I've gotten a high score on this exam. is meaningless as "until" indicates a time in future, while "have gotten" refers to a past time. From a "grammar" point of view: Conjunctions like "until" are typically an indica...

@Copper could you tell me what's wrong with my answer?
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Lemme see..
"Conjunctions like "until" are typically an indication of subjunctive mood." - really?
"I will study hard until I've gotten a high score on this exam." - seems okay to me
Really?
I think not.
I've gotten refers to a point in the past.
Note that it's not I will have gotten.
Why? I think it's okay to use present perfect to describe a future condition
> Technically, we used to use the morphological present subjunctive in Modern English after conjunctions like "if, whether, unless, until . . .
09:44
Maybe I'm not qualified enouth on this issue
And it's correct in today's grammar, though it's been replaced mainly by modals.
I don't follow this line about "subjunctive" at all. (meaning I can't understand it)
6
A: Using "present perfect" for things that happen in future

Barrie EnglandIt’s unhelpful to think of the present perfect construction solely in terms of past time. It is used in talking about the future following when, after, as soon as and until.

Oh!
Bah, I reached a point of delete-your-trouble.
FWIW, that user has asked it on wordreference.
This is a kind of question that would usually send me to Quirk et al. and PEU
Because I do not feel competent here.
Whatever.
I deleted it already, and Khan added his answer.
09:53
sometimes you just have to delete 'em! (0: I recently deleted one of mine
Here
3
Q: past simple or present in that case

user5577I am going on holidays in two days for two weeks, but before going I would like to see my friend: shall I say It would be nice to see you before I leave. It would be nice to see you before I left. I think the second one is better, as it is not a real situation but a wish.

BBL
Oh, I forgot to paste a piece of poetry related to "until-clauses"
"Never until we conquer the uncouth
Connivings of our shamed indifference
(We call it Christian faith!) are we to scan
The racked and shrieking hideousness of Truth
To find, in hate's polluted self-defence
Throbbing, the pulse, the divine heart of man."
Now I can go.
 
2 hours later…
12:04
> I will study hard until I get a high score on this exam on July 25th.
Hmm...
"get a high/good score in/on the/this exam"
I'm also gonna stop answering to that OP.
They ask it on several forums anyway.
Oh!
> I think these sentences are grammatically correct. but if I add a specific time, I think these sentences have to be only this one:
3.I will study hard until I get a high score on this exam on July 25th.
I think it may have something to do with the compatibility of the present perfect with INDEFINITE time expressions.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Earlier, when our top answerers (and no, I don't mean top-reps) were still more active, I had more confidence in our answers than elsewhere.
Tell me more.
There is no more. :D
in ELL's Cabin, Jun 4 at 7:43, by Damkerng T.
I mean, everyone knows that there are a lot of English sites out there.
in ELL's Cabin, Jun 4 at 7:43, by Damkerng T.
I've never cared to join any of them.
in ELL's Cabin, Jun 4 at 7:44, by Damkerng T.
In a way, ELL gave me some kind of hope. :-)
What kinda hope?
12:15
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M That's a bit complicated, but let's just say that it gave me the feeling of "Finally, I found the real place."
@Dam BTW I started to listen to Jim's speaking exam.
> I will study hard until I've gotten a good score tomorrow evening.
^Why does it sound a bit off?
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Yay!
@DamkerngT. It sounded a bit off to me too. But apparently it works.
12:21
I think it's different from this:
in ELL's Cabin, 42 mins ago, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M
First impression: @JimR sounds like one actor I can't remember. (Don't worry, he's not an actress)
in ELL's Cabin, 40 mins ago, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M
This's all kinda slow motion. I yawn but I like it.
> I will study hard until I've gotten a good score on this exam.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Hehe!
Strangely enough, no actor came to my mind when I listened to Jim's clip.
@DamkerngT. Joanna's "comfortable" is very weird. Reminds me of that police robot in Elysium.
Haha!
Remember our protagonist's response? "I. Am. O-K."
:D
> Neg-a-tive.
I mean yeah.
~ 0:44
"Would you like to talk to a human?"
"No. I. Am. Okay. Thank you."
:P
And then after that.
Yep.
Oh, I didn't remember "Ne-ga-tive."
I'm pretty sure I do.
12:26
You sure do!
It was a scene when he got tired of that bot and was looking away and saying it.
I think he sounded much less robot-like when saying "Negative."
Though obviously, "Negative." is a typical robot response.
Oh, it does exist in the clip. Almost the last second.
Have you seen the movie?
Yep!
It feels somewhat un-Hollywood. Not sure why.
I love the movie actually.
Its ending is very nice.
12:38
Oh, yes. I like the ending, too.
Too bad that he died.
I ended up saying hey, he did do something big after all! That his mother priest said he'll do wasn't a cliche.
I wish we had that kind of healing cabinet.
@DamkerngT. I was once reading a very nice article on it. . .
No, I mean, an article that was discussing something about our Rostam-Sohrab legend.
Brief description: Rostam is Sohrab's father, but hasn't seen his son yet.
12:40
Uh-huh?
Because Sohrab's mother's nation was at war with Iran.
Don't tell me that he killed his own son.
He did.
They faced in a battle.
Oh, no! That's very sad!
Yes, one of the biggest tragedies ever known to be in people's legend.
But the author of that article argued: "Would the story have been so impacting if Rostam found out Sohrab's his son before killing him?"
On one side, Rostam was Iranian, so was the people's legend.
Sohrab was the bad guy here.
12:43
Oh!
But Ferdosi, the composer of that poem, changed the story in a way that Rostam become the bad guy.
In fact, they fought twice. In the first time, Sohrab beat his dad.
I guess it's like what they say, winners write the history.
But his dad begged for mercy, and he let him go.
12:45
Ahh
The second time, as soon as Rostam beat him to the ground, drew dagger and stabbed him.
No mercy?
No.
Maybe he was scared of his legend fading away fast.
Interesting.
Oh!
At the time of the fight, he was 600 years old.
12:48
Um... that's an extra 0, I guess.
Imagine a hero beating numerous devils, saving his nation countless times, just to get beaten by an inexperienced novice enemy leader.
@DamkerngT. No, it isn't.
Oh, interesting!
This is legends we're talking about.
So you see, Ferdosi is one of our greatest poets because he spent 30 years composing these legends in people's hearts. If it wasn't for his efforts, none of those legends would have remained.
nods
So he wrote it in the form of poems?
12:52
Nice.
30000 verses.
That's epic!
Another interesting thing is that in Iranian legends, good people never die.
They "disappear".
1
Q: the meaning ot "hello"

bart-lebyGoodnight Mommy: hello chilly Austrian matricide horror Source: http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/aug/31/goodbye-mommy-hello-chilly-austrian-matricide-horror-venice-review This is the title of the movie review. Could you explain to me the meaning of the word "hello" in it.

I didn't expect this kind of question!
I wonder what the vote is for.
Isn't this another proof of blind votes?
12:59
I mean, "hello" obviously means "hello"!
Dunno!
I think "hello" means "hullo".
13:49
@Dam I'e figured out, my recent answers are all very long.
Dunno why, I can't help it.
That's okay. Some people seem to like to writer longer than others.
Some questions also need longer answers.
My most recent answer:
1
Q: How to determine if a homework question is going to be closed?

anshabhiRecently, I have been drawing some flak for answering would be closed homework questions. For example, this one. Now, how should I determine if a question is going to be closed? I refrain myself from answering homework questions that are downvoted, but at the time when I answered this one, it was...

Side note: Meta is my favorite diary. — inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M 3 hours ago
That sounds very like you. :D
Yep.
I've been desperately checking Japanese.SE chatrooms, English Language Learners etc. to find @snail's real name.
But to no avail ;_;
@Dam when did you join ELL?
Or rather, the chat?
About a year and a half ago.
13:57
I can't see you at all in the first month. . .
*a half.
In ELL's old chatroom?
I think ELL was almost a year old before I joined it.
And it was a month or two before I began to say anything in chatrooms.
14:02
Wendikidd was the older @Dam king version of the chat.
in English Language Learners, Dec 18 '13 at 16:09, by Damkerng T.
@snailboat Hello.
First ever chat message, huh?
Prolly!
It looks like so.
Good times good times.
14:13
in English Language Learners, Feb 14 at 19:20, by MARamezani
More questions, more visitors, "cooler" users (Anyone with more than 4000 rep is considered cool :). I'm looking for a futuristic CLEAN ELL.
Bah. . .
I still haven't earned the coolership honor.
K I'm done with my memory reviews.
Ugh I really looked like a nerd talking to @Dam. A nervous nerd.
Before coming here (to chat), I was really restricted to what grammar I read in my books.
Also, since I had finished my TOEFL classes already, I worried that the lack of usage might deteriorate my English.
I was worried like sheep.
(When they sense there's something hiding in the bushes)
But chat, and specially @Snail Lessons ™ opened my eyes.
Kept me away from textbook cliches and oversimplifications, made me see the bigger picture.
That's why @snail doesn't even have any ideas how thankful of her I am.
And @Dam . . . He was/is the best learner's guide, proving blind leading the blind wrong.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Hehe!(Whatever that means!)
Well, being able to chat with you was the reason I became a reg here.
Yeah, and as always, .A.M gets over-dramatic.
Textbook English and real English aren't quite the same, right? :-)
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M In the reverse (the name), even!
14:26
Seriously though, if it weren't for you two, God knows how much crappy English mine would've decayed into.
14:37
0
Q: What does "ribbiting" mean?

Alex JoligI'm subtitling the barely lethal movie and in one scene which happens in an biology class, the new girl sits next to a boy and says: I heard this class is "ribbiting." and the boys answers: Well, I wouldn't "leap" to conclusions. Mr. Drumm can be pretty rough. (Mr. Drumm is the tea...

Barely Lethal. I have not even ever heard of it!
@JMB Yes! it's ribbiting. I'm using an English subtitle for help. So I'm sure about that — Alex Jolig 1 hour ago
Hmm... sometimes those subtitles are not very accurate.
Though most of them are okay. (for the most part)
Oh, no! They were playing with words!
> Oh, no.
I hope he didn't
"Kermit" suicide.
I heard this class
is "ribbiting."
Well, I wouldn't
"leap" to conclusions.
Mr. Drumm can be pretty rough.
"Kermit" suicide... class is "ribbiting"... and "leap" to conclusions.

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