Language Overflow

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

14:15

Note to self: I'm becoming @Dam. Doing more dialogs with myself.

Note to self: This user has a habit of over-complicating things for himself in his questions.

jihoon

776 10

Damkerng T.

14:34

@CopperKettle Interesting...

> "If I left early I would be glad to see you beforehand" (?)
"If I left early it would be nice to first see you to say goodbye" (?)
"I wish I left only after seeing you before going" (?)

They're all sound (sort of) okay to me.

About backshifting and would, I guess even F.E. would think 1a. is better.

> 1a. I'd like to see you before I leave.

> 1b. I'd like to see you before I left.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Hee

@CopperKettle Is spotted like the snake reminds me of my only unaccepted question.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

o/

Damkerng T.

\o

2

Q: Is the use of 'the Italian' for people from Italy acceptable?

As I understand, when we say something about people from some country generally, we use the plural form. For example, "The Italians are people who have made their mark in many parts of the world." Here "the Italians" refers to Italian people in general. Here are some of the results I found when ...

word-usage nouns

You might find this link, books.google.co.th/…, interesting. It seems to get along with the rule I was told quite well. — Damkerng T. Dec 3 '13 at 18:55

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. I've seen it A LOT.

Damkerng T.

Note that page on Google Book. Very interesting.

Compare: The dog is an extremely social animal.

Man_From_India

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M i think we can omit more than one word for elliptical structure. But in that sentence I am not very sure.

Damkerng T.

14:40

Hello @Man_From_India!

Hello @GATA!

Man_From_India

Good evening @DamkerngT.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Man_From_India Of course you can, but not more than one part of speech.

Man_From_India

How is your Hackintosh running?

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India Toddle-like. :D

Man_From_India

Haha

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

14:41

BTW @Man @Dam I wrote my longest answer ever on ELL.

Damkerng T.

Long time no see, @GATA!

Man_From_India

For example in this sentence

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Where is it, where is it? -- excited

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

2

Q: Chat to or chat with?

I named my app like Like-minded - find and chat with people having similar interests Oxford dictionary says chat goes with to preposition. But I learnt in school that if communication can described 'two-way' rather than 'one-way', than using with is more proper. Do you agree?

proper-nouns names

Man_From_India

> I took the road to east and Steve the one to the west.

Damkerng T.

14:42

Oh, that reminds me of talk to vs. talk with.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. It does. . .

Damkerng T.

I posted a wiki-answer not so long ago.

GATA

HI Damkerng T. :) I was lurking :)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

o/ @GATA!

Man_From_India

12. The house where the dead man was found 1) / is being guarded by police 2)/ to prevent it from being entered 3)/ and the evidence interfered with. 4) / No error 5)

Damkerng T.

14:43

@GATA Hehe! Welcome back!

GATA

Thanks :)

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Wow, even the TL;DR section is not very short!

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. Is there any error in that sentence?

Damkerng T.

I think 2) is a little weird. Not 100% sure.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. A-ha!

Man_From_India

14:45

Well now that both MAR and the answer says there is error in 4th part, I am a little confused.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

And 4.

GATA

Thanks :) its in YouTube. I will try to catch him :)

Man_From_India

Copperkettle :-)

jimsug

translate ru: maybe

(from English) может быть

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Copper does, but you must be really witty to catch him flying.

Damkerng T.

14:46

If 2) is correct, then 4) is weird.

jimsug

translate ru: I can do this but Bing is not very good at translation

(from English) Я могу это сделать, но Bing не очень хорошо на перевод

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. See the discussion in Cabin.

jimsug

:P

Damkerng T.

@GATA CopperKettle definitely knows Russian. :D

GATA

Would you please show me how to do that?

Damkerng T.

14:47

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I was trying to read your TL;DR section. :P

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Go on. .

Damkerng T.

@GATA A-ha! I guess you could leave a link to that YouTube clip for @CopperKettle.

GATA

Thx DT, Would you please show me how to do that?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@GATA Copy the URL in address bar, and paste it here.

Our @Dam king here will pin it.

GATA

Ok this is it youtube.com/watch?v=EUFZ0R_3Imo

Damkerng T.

14:51

Also @jimsug may be able to help a bit.

Argh, my fingers!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Обучение рисунку. Портрет. 12 серия: построение головы римлянина и общие вопросы построения

►

Like that.

jimsug

@DamkerngT. It is a silly trick, nothing more :)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Now pin it @Dam king, instead of that conclusion thingy.

@DamkerngT. I'm pretty sure Bing translate is as reliable as Gran Turismo is. . .I mean Google Translate is.

Damkerng T.

@GATA The video seems to have a transcription attached. I don't know how good it is.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Hehe!

GATA

Its auto-translated it's horrible as usual.

Damkerng T.

14:54

@GATA Is there any specific part that you want some help with the transcription or translation?

@GATA A-ha! That's unsurprisingly unsurprising!

GATA

Indeed :)

Yes, from minute 22 to 24.

Damkerng T.

All right!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Dam now get back to reading my answer! Proofread plzzz.

Damkerng T.

@CopperKettle @GATA needs a little help with the transcription between 22:00 and 24:00 in youtube.com/watch?v=EUFZ0R_3Imo. I hope you aren't too busy. Thanks in advance. :-)

Ah, I guess I have to feed my cat for a few minutes first...

GATA

Thank you all :)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

14:59

Dang you @Hagu!

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Hehe!

@GATA Welcome!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Oh, and I wrote another answer too:

1

A: I'd like to introduce myself to someone by using "a good side of me" and "a weak side of me"

I know I can use "*an another side of Korean drinking culture". . . No, you should un-know that. An doesn't go with another. It should rather be another side of Korean drinking culture, which would need additional polishing depending on what that phrase is supposed to mean in your context. ...

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I think the COCA link "First 12 results in COCA are all talk to." is the wrong link, perhaps?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

God, two answers and seven/eight comments. . .So much ELLing for one day. . .

@DamkerngT. Eh?

Damkerng T.

It's so [j*] a|an *

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

15:09

Yes. . .

Damkerng T.

But you were talking about talk to?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yes.

corpus.byu.edu/coca/?c=coca&q=40568246

What the heck!

@Dam how do I change that?

Damkerng T.

I guess it's still in your history.

I mean on the COCA page.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I do the search, but the link doesn't change

Damkerng T.

My guess was probably you paste the wrong one, that's all.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

15:12

Is the other one like that too?

Damkerng T.

If you click on history, you will see the history of your search requests.

(Look for history | lists | logout in the top-right corner.)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. 404.

Damkerng T.

Eh? I think the history link should be available after you logging on to COCA.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Dang. . .I'm not logged in.

@Dam The golden question: How do I log in?

Damkerng T.

Hah!

Try this link: corpus.byu.edu/coca

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

15:34

@DamkerngT. Fixed!

Tanks!

Damkerng T.

Jets!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Continue reading!

Damkerng T.

Ah, I'd finished reading the answer.

Nice answer.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Mediocre.

I could do better.

I wonder what @snail will say.

Damkerng T.

Hehe, that makes me wonder that too.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

15:40

What about my other answer @Dam?

I'm thinking of expanding it though.

Damkerng T.

Um... links please!

Oh, it's up there.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. That's why I said that user over-complicates stuff.

For instance, take a look at this:

1

Q: I loved her more that I've done any of my exes. - does this sentence make sense?

I loved her more that I've done any of my exes. this is the first sentence that I've come up with. but the girl that broke up with me is now another ex. So is the following sentence better? I loved her more that I've done any of the other exes of mine. I loved her more that I've done an...

sentence-construction

Hehe he's killing himself.

Wow. . .

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M BTW, My was asking me that it wants to be in lowercase. :P (One of My most prominent upsides/downsides is. . .)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Right.

@Dam could the new navigation be turned on on ELL?

Damkerng T.

Dunno. I still use the old one, I think.

The upsides/downsides is interesting...

I think I've never used them with people, but maybe that's just me.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

15:52

I thought advantage/disadvantage is also used, but it's mostly in careers' contexts.

Damkerng T.

nods -- I'm more familiar with using virtue/trait when talking about people.

Or maybe just strength/weakness.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. Well yeah, I think that's the best fit/ but it doesn't demonstrate two opposite traits.

@DamkerngT. This is a good addition.

Lemme edit it. . .

CopperKettle

@DamkerngT. But he said 1b is better (0:

Damkerng T.

@CopperKettle Eh? Did he say that?

CopperKettle

"Usually, the backshift version ("left") would be used here. Though, there's nothing wrong with the first version. Either version is fine. The first version (the non-backshift) might be considered to be slightly marked, and so, would probably be used in a situation where a superior is requesting a junior to be available for a, er, chat before the superior leaves"

Damkerng T.

16:04

"I'd like to ..." and "It would be ..." are not the same, IMHO.

CopperKettle

@DamkerngT. Ah, I see, I overlooked that.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:16

@Dam king I edited my second answer.

Hats off to you!

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Yay!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I think I'm satisfied with it now.

I'm bored with ELL now, but Bart Leby keeps me engaged:

0

Q: if someone would answer my question

(a) I'd appreciate it if someone would answer my question. (b) I'd appreciate it if someone answered my question. Which sentence is grammatically OK? I hesitate because I am not able to decide whether this clause is conditional or not. P. S. Is it necessary to use "it" there?

grammar

CopperKettle

@DamkerngT. But "I would like to" also technically harbors a past-tense modal. How are they different, I wonder.

@DamkerngT. No, I'm too lazy.

Damkerng T.

@CopperKettle Aww...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@CopperKettle Nice way of putting it. High five!

@DamkerngT. Did you see my edited answer?

Damkerng T.

16:27

@CopperKettle My idea about would is that it's a remote thinking form of will.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

2

A: I'd like to introduce myself to someone by using "a good side of me" and "a weak side of me"

I know I can use "*an another side of Korean drinking culture". . . No, you should un-know that. An doesn't go with another. It should rather be another side of Korean drinking culture, which would need additional polishing depending on what that phrase is supposed to mean in your context. ...

I wonder if what I added makes sense.

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Yes, but I can upvote it only once.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Never asked for an upvote; but I'm unsure whether my additions are legit.

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M It's a bit goofy, but I think it's legit.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Which one?

The Forte one?

Damkerng T.

16:30

(If you bring in forte or Achilles heel, I may bring in Kryptonite. :P)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

What? I thought robots preferred Wall E.

Damkerng T.

Ee-vaa!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

BTW I've never watched it; merely listened to its soundtrack.

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M The cutest Hollywood animation on my chart. :-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Ha!

Booo!

BOOOOOO!

@Dam take a look at this:

3

Q: if someone would answer my question

(a) I'd appreciate it if someone would answer my question. (b) I'd appreciate it if someone answered my question. Which sentence is grammatically OK? I hesitate because I am not able to decide whether this clause is conditional or not. P. S. Is it necessary to use "it" there?

grammar

Look at the answer. . .

I hate that kinda answers that say you should accept this as the answer since I'm a native ENGLISHER!

Damkerng T.

16:38

I think the two sentences mean different things.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yes, and the tense in b) somehow doesn't balance.

Damkerng T.

nods -- I think it may be usable in past narratives.

Hmm...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

That. . .

Thanks for the edit @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M! — Will 4 mins ago

was unexpected!

Damkerng T.

> ..., I do hope you will step on these inaccuracies and I will appreciate it if you do.

The backshift version of that would be similar to the OP's b).

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It is very much ommitable there IMO.

Damkerng T.

16:48

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Yay!

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Ah, no! That it is needed, afaik.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hah! I went wondering what ASAIK is supposed to mean.

@DamkerngT. Oh wait, yeah, I agree.

Damkerng T.

Hehe! Sorry about the typo!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. Well I'm seeing so many variations of AFAIK I won't notice it if the thing is a typo.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

17:01

@DamkerngT. Wow! Russian chat has been inactive for 145 days! :O

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Hah!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

They need their version of @Dam king to lighten it up!

Damkerng T.

LOL

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I dunno why I never can exceed my 2-answer limit.

Damkerng T.

Writing answers can take time and energy.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

17:03

I wanna post a third answer, but I'm repeatedly facing ERROR 600: Meh.

Damkerng T.

Eh? 600? Never got one.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Well my chat about me itself says that error.

Damkerng T.

17:16

> Mikey tipped back his helmet and wiped a dirty glove over his face.

An interesting expression.

It's not tipping back the visor, it's the helmet.

HarryCBurn

To me that says he doesn't have a visor, but he's making way for his glove. @Dam

Damkerng T.

Oh! Hmm... interesting!

Good evening!

HarryCBurn

Hullo!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

\o @Harry! I've been hot today!

HarryCBurn

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Incidentally, I'm watching a video of people messing with lava.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

17:24

Went rep-farming and grew up pumpkins.

HarryCBurn

Hot in [place you live]?

Ooh, nice!

Damkerng T.

@HarryCBurn I hope they will be all right!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Nah, I mean I answered lots of stuff on ELL! 2 questions!

HarryCBurn

@DamkerngT. They were c:

Damkerng T.

Phew!

HarryCBurn

17:27

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Wow! ;)

Damkerng T.

1

A: Can "where" be used as "from which"?

This is an interesting syntax, though I've heard it's falling out of favor. The purpose is to avoid ending a sentence with a preposition (from, to, on, etc). So rather than say "...the car I am sitting in." you would say "...the car in which I am sitting.". This can be confusing, ...

Interesting!

Though I think...

> A preposition is a terrible thing with which to try not to end a sentence.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

What?

Damkerng T.

would be something the professor had in mind. :P

> a) "A preposition is a fine thing to end a sentence with."

> b) "A preposition is a terrible thing with which to end a sentence."

Oh, I see. A) and b) were said by two different people.

One was a linguist and the other was an English professor.

So, b) would be what they really wanted to say.

I thought the linguist might've wanted to demonstrate its awkwardness.

Anonymous

20:43

A) is of course more natural English, but the grammar in B) is still seen today in formal style.

Anonymous

Of course, it would be a mistake to suggest that anyone should speak exclusively in formal style.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Third answer today!

What's happening to me? Worried

Anonymous

There's an old joke, though.

Anonymous

> Speaker A: Excuse me, where's the library at?
> Speaker B: Here at Harvard, sir, we do not end a sentence with a preposition.
> Speaker A: Oh, sorry. Where's the library at, asshole?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hah!

Anonymous

20:52

Questions of the form Where's the library at? are interesting, actually.

Anonymous

The at seems to be extra. You can say:

Anonymous

> Where's the library?

Anonymous

But not:

Anonymous

> *At where's the library?

Anonymous

But people actually do say:

Anonymous

20:53

> Where's the library at?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Oh yes, that's one common error too.

Anonymous

Well, I'd rather call it "non-standard" than an "error".

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Oh?

K.

Anonymous

If you believe it's not acceptable in Standard English, well, that's one point you can argue. I think it's perfectly reasonable to say it's non-standard.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Oh my newest answer is about the subjunctive mood.

Anonymous

20:54

Although someone might make an argument in the other direction.

Anonymous

But I can't see any reasonable argument for calling it an error.

Anonymous

Surely the native speakers who say "Where's the library at?" intend to say it!

Anonymous

It can't just be a slip of the tongue.

Anonymous

I'll take a look at your answers!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Oh my. . .That would be nice of you!

Anonymous

20:56

Haha.

Anonymous

Hey, let's talk about your COCA links.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

K.

Anonymous

How did you make them?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I logged in.

Anonymous

These are the official instructions:

Anonymous

20:56

corpus.byu.edu/coca/links_e.asp

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Actually, signed in.

Anonymous

I'm going to try following them just now, because I usually get a different result...

Anonymous

And I'm curious if that's because you did something different, or if the site is doing something weird.

Anonymous

COCA is a pretty weird site.

Anonymous

Weird. It's acting hokey for me, too.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

20:58

O.o

Let me check.

Anonymous

I'm not sure what's up with COCA.

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