Language Overflow

Anonymous

16:10

@Man_From_India It is true, though, that which is somewhat less common, particularly in conversation

Man_From_India

I think that kid ran away :D

Hi @CopperKettle

After a long time....

How r u doing?

CopperKettle

@M.A.Ramezani The Beatles, Joan Baez, Bob Dylan, John Fogerty, John Hiatt, Whitney Houston..

@Man_From_India Good evening @Man_From_India!

Good evening all!

Fine, thanks!

Man_From_India

Are you still there in Lan8?

CopperKettle

@Man_From_India Yes, Lang-8

Man_From_India

Ah...how is it there? One user here was telling that most of the questions are not answered. Less user there?

CopperKettle

16:20

@Man_From_India It's nice there. My texts have been edited \ reacted upon rather quickly

lang-8.com/1017887

Man_From_India

@user62015 was asking for doing some corrections, so told him about you that you might help him there. @CopperKettle

Damkerng T.

16:38

@Man_From_India I don't know if you know about the other ELL room. People sometimes hang out there. I tell you this just in cast you didn't know about it. (I think I will stay 70% of the time here 30% there, but probably mostly both.) In any case, you're mostly welcome in both rooms.

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. Thanks. Yes I know about that one :-)

Damkerng T.

I see. :D

Not sure if I got a problem with the connection or it's the chat room, but the room is acting weird.

Man_From_India

:O but it's fine here for me. Maybe your connection.

Damkerng T.

I think so!

I've heard about the new login mechanism SE's going to use (or is already in use), so I thought it was possible that it was the chat itself.

user62015

16:56

@Man_From_India Sure.

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. Possibly.

Damkerng T.

19:01

in ELL's Cabin, 41 secs ago, by Damkerng T.

A-ha! That test (Lately, Tanya has been feeling a little tired) is based on Raymond Murphy's English Grammar in Use.

Where is that test again? ...

Oh, here: sophia.org/tutorials/…

Damkerng T.

19:12

in ELL's Cabin, 1 min ago, by snailboat

On the subject of Canadian final eh, though, see: http://homes.chass.utoronto.ca/~cla-acl/actes2004/Gold-CLA-2004.pdf

Damkerng T.

19:26

Back to the test:

1) Lately, Tanya _____ a little tired.
a. has been feeling; b. has felt; c. felt

2) The Mauna Loa volcano in Hawaii _______ 16 times since 1900.
a. has been erupting; b. has erupted; c. erupted

3) The Smiths recently ______ from their trip to Russia.
a. have been returning; b. returned; c. have returned

4) Paul ________ for a promotion for the past year.
a. asked; b. has asked; c. has been asking

5) Since the last poll, the President’s approval ratings _____ yet again.
a. dropped; b. have been dropping; c. have dropped

Welcome back @oerkelens! In case you may wonder that there are two rooms, the Cabin is a public room. I created this gallery a couple weeks ago. The other room is more like the old room you used to be in. You're welcome here too if you want to discuss language stuff. Though it's your choice. :-)

(Meaning, you can chat there, here, or both, or none. Up to you. ;-)

Welcome to the room, @oerkelens!

M.A.Ramezani

@DamkerngT. Thanks!

Damkerng T.

@M.A.Ramezani Eh? -- confused!

M.A.Ramezani

Mission accomplished.

oerkelens

Thank you :)

Damkerng T.

Long time no see, right? :-)

oerkelens

19:40

Yeah, been busy @work, then went on holiday :)

Damkerng T.

(I saw you on the main site a couple days ago. Upvoted some of your answers, too.)

oerkelens

:)

Damkerng T.

@work is always good. @holiday is even better. :-)

M.A.Ramezani

@oerkelens Hmm you a native Englisher?

@work is always good?!

oerkelens

Near-native, I'm Dutch, married to a Greek teacher of English, and I have been speaking more English than Dutch in my everyday life for the last 15+ years

Holiday = good, but always too short

M.A.Ramezani

19:42

@oerkelens That's native to me.

oerkelens

Two weeks with a guide who showed us many "unvaluable things" :P

Damkerng T.

@oerkelens Ah, was it a photo tour?

M.A.Ramezani

My mother language is a weird Turkish; but my academic study has been Persian, mostly.

oerkelens

@M.A.Ramezani Yeah, I call it near-native to avoid possible confusion :)

M.A.Ramezani

And I call myself a native Persianer.

@oerkelens Bah dum tss modern art?

oerkelens

19:44

@DamkerngT. Kind of. First time in Sri Lanka, and since we don't drive, we figured a personal guide was a good idea to see a lot of sights - and we did :)

@M.A.Ramezani :D Local English, more like. After some days it was easy enough to follow, but it was confusing at first.

M.A.Ramezani

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!

oerkelens

@M.A.Ramezani Is there such a thing as non-weird Turkish? Linguistically that language is a bit of an outlier isn't it?

Mongol-Arabic mix?

Damkerng T.

nods -- Sri Lankan English is mostly understandable, if I recall correctly.

oerkelens

@DamkerngT. Mostly, yes :P

M.A.Ramezani

@oerkelens Well, there's an interesting history to it.

It had its own alphabet. . .

oerkelens

19:47

@M.A.Ramezani I once almost got into an online fight because someone said Turks were Arabs, and I said they were Mongols. He took Mongol as an insult :P

M.A.Ramezani

Now all is left is us weird dudes who speak something we have no idea about.

Anonymous

Sometimes the native-nonnative dichotomy is less useful than other times

M.A.Ramezani

@oerkelens Turks aren't Arabs.

Now you call them Mongols? Let's fight!

oerkelens

@M.A.Ramezani That was exactly my point :)

Damkerng T.

@M.A.Ramezani No fight here, please. :D

M.A.Ramezani

19:48

But yeah, Mongols have something to do with Turks.

@DamkerngT. Even if it contains cute fireworks?

oerkelens

I got interested in Turkish history when I got a Greek girlfriend :)

Damkerng T.

@M.A.Ramezani Then bring only the fireworks. :D

oerkelens

Their histories are quite interwoven for some time

M.A.Ramezani

Yes.

Damkerng T.

@oerkelens Oh, yes. I forgot they are very near to each other.

oerkelens

19:50

Kemal was born in Thessaloniki, Greece (where my wife was born)

M.A.Ramezani

Kemal who?

Pasha?

oerkelens

Sadly, they have been in an almost perpetual state of war almost since their independence

Kemal Ataturk

Founder of modern Turkey

M.A.Ramezani

That's Kemal Pasha alright.

oerkelens

:)

M.A.Ramezani

Smiley mania.

Damkerng T.

19:51

:)

oerkelens

You ain't seen nothing yet :P :+ :D

8)7

M.A.Ramezani

Oh my eyes! Save 'em before they pop out!

Damkerng T.

rotating the screen... trying to figure out the meaning of 8)7...

oerkelens

o.o

Damkerng T.

^_^

M.A.Ramezani

19:53

O.O

;-;

oerkelens

8)7 is a guy hitting himself on the head with a hammer in a confused state of mind

Damkerng T.

8)7

M.A.Ramezani

O.o

Damkerng T.

That feels right...

oerkelens

Damkerng T.

19:54

A-ha! -- Thanks! That's very clear.

M.A.Ramezani

(areyoukiddingme)

That's my face now.

oerkelens

An oft-used smiley on a (Dutch) IT forum where I am quite active. Was a moderator there for 11 years :)

Damkerng T.

I wonder how many emoticons have made it to the normal speech. LOL is the only one I know.

oerkelens

LOL is a TLA, not an emoticon

Damkerng T.

@oerkelens Was? Aww...

oerkelens

19:55

I use BRB IRL

M.A.Ramezani

That.

Damkerng T.

@oerkelens Good point!

M.A.Ramezani

AFAIK has for sure.

oerkelens

Was, yes. Still active but no longer as a mod. Leaving some work for the new generation :)

Damkerng T.

I see.

oerkelens

19:56

When I started it was quite messy sometimes. It took some years to train the users, but now they are very well-behaved.

Damkerng T.

>:)

M.A.Ramezani

>;P

oerkelens

Once banned 12 users in one thread. I used to be really tough. But with age one mellows.

M.A.Ramezani

Hehe.

Ban me! I wanna know how it feels.

Hehe.

oerkelens

I can't do that here... :)

@M.A.Ramezani That's a winking devil with his tongue out?

M.A.Ramezani

20:00

Yes. It's a kind of greeting in Nicaragua.

oerkelens

:D

Damkerng T.

@M.A.Ramezani lol

3

Q: Does English have this tense

My language is Persian and I think we have a tense which is absent in English, or maybe I am wrong. In a conversation I wrote this sentence Then you mean it is not important that I be the first one having to have a mere idea that earth revolves around the sun and I should someway prove it!...

That question makes it sound like Persian learners wouldn't have much trouble learning English tenses. :-)

M.A.Ramezani

I know what he's talking about!

I knew he's Iranian.

He's rather talking about an aspect, not a tense.

Damkerng T.

So there is such a tense in ~~English~~ Persian?

Oh!

oerkelens

I liked that question, but I cannot answer it in any useful way I'm afraid

M.A.Ramezani

20:07

Hmm. . . Let me see how I can say it. . . It's literal translation is implicit aspect.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... implicit?

M.A.Ramezani

I think we had something like that in English, I can't recall correctly; because ice cream.

Yes. It's like adding an if clause to a verb.

oerkelens

It's funny, I thought the OP's sentence made sense, but I wasn't sure it was OK. But if StoneyB says it's OK, I won't argue :)

M.A.Ramezani

I remember it was a big hurdle for me to overcome the fact that such thing doesn't exist in English, and I think his sentence is the most logical sentence possible.

Damkerng T.

Using be there makes it sound a little more like AmE than BrE to me.

M.A.Ramezani

20:14

I commented.

Damkerng T.

Nice!

oerkelens

@DamkerngT. If I champion InE as a normal English dialect, I should accept AmE as well... no matter how much it hurts my eyes and ears sometimes :P

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

oerkelens

Now we wait for some Yanks to react :P

M.A.Ramezani

PerE is the best and most native English there is.

That's my reaction.

oerkelens

20:19

I see no reason to object :)

Damkerng T.

20:31

> She has been painting her bedroom.

> Has been painting is the present perfect continuous. We are thinking of the activity. It does not matter whether it has been finished or not. In this example, the activity (painting the bedroom) has not been finished.

> She has painted her bedroom.

> Has painted is the present perfect simple. Here, the important thing is that something has been finished. Has painted is a completed action. We are interested in the result of the activity (the painted bedroom), not the activity itself.

Okay, so far, so good.

M.A.Ramezani

Oh no, @Dam is gonna make a breakthrough.

Damkerng T.

The textbook seems to imply that has <verb>-ed is only used when something is finished.

M.A.Ramezani

A moment. . . Hey @Dam he commented.

Damkerng T.

@M.A.Ramezani Yes, التزامی, thank you, tense is related to time? I am not a linguistic nor a good speaker of English. — Ahmad 5 mins ago

A-ha!

> I have known her for years.

Does that mean that my knowing her was over?

oerkelens

@DamkerngT. If you use know in the biblical sense, then 1) it's a big boast and 2) it's over, yes

M.A.Ramezani

20:42

Nope.

oerkelens

But in the common sense, nope

Damkerng T.

nods

oerkelens

I guess it has to do with the fact that knowing something is a state. You can't say I have been knowing her for years (again, unless you mean the biblical sense)

Same with I was wondering about something

Damkerng T.

Well, you meant "have sexual intercourse with (someone)", I think.

oerkelens

@DamkerngT. Yes, it is used in the bible in that sense. But I do not believe anyone does that for years on end :P

Damkerng T.

20:45

Agree. :D

oerkelens

So the text-book explanation is valid, for non-static verbs.

Or am I jumping to conclusions?

Damkerng T.

I think you're quite right.

I was thinking about those verbs that can be both.

Like feel.

oerkelens

mmmm.... I have felt sad for years

Am I still sad? I think it is inconclusive...

Damkerng T.

nods -- It's clearer with I've been feeling sad for years.

oerkelens

Lovely how the simple things turn complicated if you look carefully :)

Anywho, I should be looking for a bed :)

Damkerng T.

21:00

@oerkelens Good night!

oerkelens

g'night:)

M.A.Ramezani

G'night!

Damkerng T.

21:18

@M.A.Ramezani Oh, it's gone network wide!

M.A.Ramezani

HNQ?

Damkerng T.

I think!

Yes, it's a HNQ.

M.A.Ramezani

Well a question I answered after 2 months of having nothing posted on main sites has gone HNQ too, and I lucky bastard got 7 upboats for it.

Damkerng T.

When some answer's got more than 3 upvotes in less than an hour on ELL, you can be sure that it's become a HNQ.

@M.A.Ramezani Nice!

Looks like something worth noting:

(1) "It is not important that you BE the first one" — We don't know if you will be the first one, but this is not important. (2) "It is not important that you ARE the first one" — You are the first one, and it is not important. (3) "It WOULD NOT BE important if you WERE the first one." — You are not the first one, but this is not important. — Douglas McClure 10 mins ago

M.A.Ramezani

I noted it.

Anonymous

22:13

I like upboats

Damkerng T.

23:06

Although postpositive is basically correct (this non-finite clause is an internal post-head modifier in noun phrase structure, and postpositive literally means "positioned after"), it might be somewhat confusing in this case. Why? Because postpositive is usually used to describe (the post-head modifier function of) adjective phrases. — snailboat 8 hours ago

^Another comment worth noting.

M.A.Ramezani

@DamkerngT. Wait. . .

You mean noting?

Damkerng T.

Oh, true!

Sometimes my fingers have their own freewill.

M.A.Ramezani

Heh. Hope @snail didn't see that.

She would add a smiley if she saw though.

Damkerng T.

I'm sure she'd understand. Sometimes I dropped the whole word!

:D

BTW, this could be fun:

in ELL's Cabin, 27 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

> 0:05
Hey, I'm Cailin O'Neil from Travel Yourself and I'm here today with my Newfoundland friend, Candice Walsh of Candice Does the World, and Canadian and comedian actor, Mark Critch.
Hello.
Today we're here for our Newfoundland language lessons.

Part 1: General Conversation
0:22
Ca'ce, for you hav'a d'okie?
Not much, why(where?) were you at(asking)?
Oh, not much, those can go'l'the way down a'bout week'n'wah. (hehe) How's your fath'n how's your mother?
You know, I've by husters(?).
Deadly week'n alligator (altogether?).

M.A.Ramezani

You liar! I mean disingenuous!

Damkerng T.

23:12

Heh!

M.A.Ramezani

You never said your real name is Cailin O'Neil!

Damkerng T.

LOL -- It's from a clip:

in ELL's Cabin, 2 hours ago, by Tiny Giant

A Newfoundland Language Lesson with Mark Critch, Candice Walsh and Travel Yourself

►

M.A.Ramezani

I know.

Damkerng T.

But who knows? I could be Mark. :P

M.A.Ramezani

Or Candice.

Damkerng T.

23:14

Hehe! True! Or even Cailin!

Beware of mixing. My wife pronounces "ball" like English and "bowl" like American, which is to say, identically. It is confusing. — phoog 2 hours ago

Oh, good point!

Better post the whole question.

2

Q: Is it arrogant to speak with a British accent among people with an American accent if english is my second language?

My mother tongue is spanish and during the university almost all my english professors were from England, after several years studying English as a Second Language (ESL) I ended up with a strange (and sometimes funny) spanish/british accent that I don't like that much. I don't like it very much ...

american-english pronunciation british-english accent

Anyhow, I think radio paper is weird.

Maybe the term the inventor was thinking of was something similar to Kindle with Whispersync.

See: ell.stackexchange.com/q/56566/3281

Hmm... @oerkelens, I think you swapped left and right in one sentence, perhaps?

0

A: to the left of self-proclaimed socialist Bernie Sanders

Traditionally, the political playing field is divided in a left and a right side. What each side means changes over time and between countries, but in general, right is conservative, left is progressive. That is a gross over-simplification, though. Socialism has traditionally been placed on the...

> What each side means changes over time and between countries, but in general, right is conservative, left is progressive.

+1 anyway, though.

Or maybe I misunderstand the terms "progressive" and "conservative".

Oh, I see. Based on French politics in the old days. The conservative (the rich) were on the right wing. The progressive were the poor.

It's confusing for me because there are the new left and the new right.

M.A.Ramezani

23:36

It's one of those bi-choices that I prefer not to know the difference between.

Damkerng T.

nods

Damkerng T.

23:52

1

Q: What does `almost any how` mean?

Here is the quote from Friedrich Nietzsche: He who has a why to live for can bear almost any how. I don't quite understand it, especially this phrase almost any how. Can somebody please shed light onto the meaning?

quotes

“He who has a why to live for can bear almost any how.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

A formidable thinker.

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