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20:00
Isn't he working? and Is he not working? both are same or is there any difference?
"Am I not" as a tag question doesn't have to be formal, but it does smack of austerity, in my book – this may be due to the form being uncontracted.
@user62015 "Aren't I" is definitely the only option that's standard.
No, it's not.
"Am I not" is fine as well.
In less educated, Southern US areas you may hear "Ain't I" but it's definitely not generally acceptable.
@userr2684291 All of their examples used contractions... "Am I not" is not a contraction.
Never heard "am I not" as a tag.
20:09
@Catija ... That's immaterial.
Okay. Makes sense
@userr2684291 The question was "Which of these three is acceptable"... that wasn't one of those three.
So do you suggest aren't I?
Let me ask you a basic question
@Catija Oh, apologies.
I am going to see the Taj Mahal. options are:- Ain't I?, amn't I?, are I not?, aren't I?
Which one will you choose?
20:11
I again failed to notice that little arrow next to the handle... ugh.
@user62015 Yes. As in "I'm correct, aren't I?" Another option is, as @userr2684291 said, "I'm correct, am I not?"
@userr2684291 It wasn't there when I first posted the message. :)
Thank you friends/
@user62015 In that case, you'd use "am I not" or "aren't I"... though, grammatically, "am I not" is probably preferred. "aren't I" is a bit lazy. It's less lazy if it was something like "We're going to see the Taj Mahal, aren't we?"
Because the "are" matches with "we"... but people use "aren't I" regardless of the poor subject-verb matching.
Thanks.
But it is the only option we have, right?
20:15
You could always just say "right?". "I'm going to see the Taj Mahal, right?"
Okay, but let's say I have all these four options then?
aren't I would be a better choice?
In the singular, first person, I'd say your two choices are "am I not" (which might be seen as a bit pretentious in the US, anyway) or "aren't I". The others are non-standard. And "amn't I" is a mouthful... which is probably why no one uses it.
Okay.
But still I want to know in my example, which one of them will you choice?
I just want to know.
Thanks.
Aren't I or am I not?
If you can give me an example where to use am I not and where to use aren't I?
There's no "right" choice. They're both acceptable.
They mean exactly the same thing.
I agree but let's say I am giving the exam and I have both in my options, then? I know and understand what you mean to say but still I want your final choice
20:22
@Catija In the sentence "I'm correct, ...", do you find "aren't I" a more casual and hence confident version than "am I not"? I'd expect the latter exclusively in contexts where the inquirer requests actual feedback, whereas the first might be uttered in a boastful fashion.
One is "am I not" and the other is "are not I"... it's just a word order difference which, in this case, is irrelevant.
I have an exam tomorrow
And I have read on the internet and got confused
So landed here.
Okay.
If this is for a test you shouldn't use "aren't I" because it's not technically correct. You do not use "are" with "I".
But in Indian English, we use it.
I wish I could show you my books...ahahahahaha
I always use aren't I but today I read in the book and on the internet and got confused
@Catija That sounds somewhat prescriptivist.
20:24
There are many things in InE that are utterly wrong in AmE and BrE... so that's not really a good excuse. There's always a difference between "correct" and "actual usage".
Thanks.
I agree.
@userr2684291 What tests are anything but prescriptive?
Particularly language ones.
Competition exams to get a goverment job
I've taken enough foreign language classes to know that what you're taught in school and what is actually used is vastly different.
and trust me if I show you the paper you will get confused and surprised
the way they ask questions.
but exams are exams
20:26
Heck, I live in Texas and they're still teaching Castilian Spanish in school rather than the actual Spanish spoken in Texas.
If you want I can show you some links where I solve questions and all questions were asked in previous exams.
I agree.
What use is knowing Spain Spanish when you sound like a twat when trying to talk to the locals who use low-brow Spanish? It's not... but that's what they teach.
I agree.
@user62015 You'd do best to consult the recommended literature on this one.
Okay.
Making sense.
20:28
Anywhoo... I'm off. Best of luck.
Thank and thank you so much for help.
Bye.
Good luck.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer: Contribute or Contributes? by K. Suleymenov on ell.SE
Wait, wait, wait! aren't I shouldn't be thought of as incorrect, IMO!
> The contraction aren't is used in standard English to mean ‘am not’ in questions, as in I'm right, aren't I? The more logical form amn't is now non-standard and restricted to Scottish, Irish, and dialect use. Outside questions, it is incorrect to use aren't to mean ‘am not’ (for example, I aren't going is clearly wrong)
But I think I wouldn't use aren't I myself anyway.
That doesn't mean I think I'd use am I not either.
('Cause I'm not a lawyer.)
There are many ways to convey the same idea without using either aren't I or am I not, and I think everyone knows this.
(I mean, learners of almost all levels.)
20:44
@DamkerngT. Yeah, but I'd wager that some prescriptivists argue that since you cannot say "I aren't sleeping.", "aren't" can't go with "I" in the tag question.
@userr2684291 That's exactly what the usage note says.
But that doesn't mean I'm sleepy, aren't I is incorrect.
@DamkerngT. Well, I'm sorry but, according to those prescriptivists, it is, and that was my point.
Which prescriptivists are we talking about?
@DamkerngT. For example, look at what these monkeys wrote: grammarerrors.com/grammar/arent-iam-i-not
.com!
That's a red flag!
Judging by the look of the web page, I decided not to read it.
20:51
Haha, same actually.
Hehe! :D
I wonder, what are the words in major languages in India for "give" in, say, "giving an exam" in the meaning of taking an exam?
Sometimes I feel like we can learn bits and pieces of another language by looking at these deviations from the standard usage.
punctuation, fixed!
I'm pretty sure there must be two words involved, one means exam, and another is the common verb used with exam to mean taking an exam.
In Thai, there probably are too many alternatives, so the misuse patterns might be somewhat random.
We can just exam (สอบ) as if it's a verb.
We can go exam (ไปสอบ) because it's common to get out of our places and take the exam somewhere else.
We can also enter exam (เข้าสอบ), because that's what we do, entering a room, before starting an exam.
Another choice is also interesting. We can do exam (ทำข้อสอบ), too! Do is quite handy in Thai, just like in English.
But I bet that the word choice for taking an exam is more consistent in main languages in India.
21:07
We say "go out on an exam". The formal way is, literally, "access an exam".
Ah, that's interesting!
access
Really interesting!
Yeah.
These things are weird when I think about their literal meaning.
Hehe!
I guess that's quite normal when we try to align our thoughts in more than one language.
I don't really notice that it means "access", it's just the idiomatic verb that we use there.
Wow, G4560 is really a hot deal over here.
Was, perhaps, because it seems like it's just out of stock of main distributors just a few hours ago!
Dang! I was thinking about buying one, actually.
21:30
> Hem line rat bag so they told her
Last night's name tag across her shoulder
What does "hemline ratbag" mean?
Is "hemline" used adjectivally here, or is it a noun (and what does it mean in that case), and the punctuation should reflect that as follows: "Hemline, ratbag"?
Is it from a song or a poem?
(I'm guessing the former.)
I think I might write it like this: Hemline, ratbag, so they told her.
At least that's how I think of it.
@DamkerngT. Yeah, that's what I think as well. Is "hemline" an insult as well?
Hmm... I don't know. I think it's just the normal hemline.
But the implication might come from the surrounding words and context.
Considering that it may be similar to Emoji-ing in code, it could indeed have a special meaning to the target audience.
21:39
Whoever's about to watch that: 0:47 is when it actually begins.
21:50
Eh, this one wasn't really funny. And I dislike the guy to the right with his slow, forced cackle and stupid comments, always ruining it for me. I get the impression that the host is sick of him as well at times.
@userr2684291 You mean a guy in the band? I think they get along pretty well.
(But what do I know? :P)
@DamkerngT. It sounds so forced, and sometimes the host has to wait until he stops emitting sounds. Maybe I'm wrong and it's just me that sees it that way.
You may be right, for all I know. Sometimes I don't think I'm perceptive as I thought.
@DamkerngT. Oh, the guy's in that band...
I thought he was just a second banana.
21:59
(I just wanted to use that word.)
 
1 hour later…
Anonymous
23:09
Aren't I is more than just technically correct, it is perfectly standard and natural. If someone claims it's not right, they need to learn the relevant rules of English grammar.
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