Language Overflow

Cardinal

19:02

Any comment on the bold ones? the articles and prepostion?

Anonymous

Oh, sorry. I'm multi-tasking, and I'm not doing a very good job of it :-)

Anonymous

@Cardinal I think it sounds fine.

Cardinal

@snailplane oh, that's fine.

What would happen if i drop the definite article?

I don't know why I prefer to omit that "the" before "analytical".

M.A.R.

@snailplane And it's actually supposed not to be a bug

Anonymous

I suppose it would work either way.

Anonymous

19:05

@M.A.R. It's a design bug.

Anonymous

The bug is that the design is wrong.

M.A.R.

@snailplane Hmm, so even if it's intentional, it can be called a bug?

Anonymous

If you couldn't use SE without your computer punching you in the face, that would be a problem even if the SE staff did that on purpose and stood by the decision.

M.A.R.

My impression was that bug is only for things that are unintentional

Anonymous

Yes. But some people are opposed to this concept and say that anything intentional is by definition not a bug.

Anonymous

19:07

These people are silly.

M.A.R.

Thank you

Anonymous

So the exact definition of bug depends on the speaker.

Cardinal

@M.A.R. Nope, bug is a flaw in coding of something and its etymology is interesting.

user2684291

@M.A.R. #rekt.

M.A.R.

@Cardinal I know. That's not the issue

Anonymous

19:08

For people who don't want to call it a bug, we can call it a "problem" instead. Or maybe a "defect". :-)

Anonymous

Though I stand by my label.

M.A.R.

@user2684291 !!flip/rekt

Ellbot

(۶ૈ‡▼益▼)۶ɹǝʞʇ

M.A.R.

@Ellbot ۶ is 6 in the Arabic script

Cardinal

@M.A.R. :-)

Didn't know ellbot can be trained! 0:)

user2684291

19:10

@snailplane I feel as though CGEL is too comprehensive and it gets a bit tedious reading about one thing for a long time in such detail, especially because there's so much information on every page. D'you reckon I'm better off reading the abridged version before I set about going through the adult one?

Anonymous

@user2684291 Sure, that would make sense. But I have to caution you a bit on that . . .

Anonymous

CGEL is a reference grammar. It's not really designed to be read cover-to-cover.

Anonymous

It's designed to have lots of details so you can use it as a reference, looking up things here and there.

Cardinal

I recall a question which was asking about an equivalent for the "so-called". If "so-called" is used with negative things?

Anonymous

@Cardinal Usually, but it can be used without a negative connotation sometimes.

Cardinal

19:13

Hmm, is there any substitution with mostly positive connotation?

Anonymous

For CGEL, you'll need to read at least the first two chapters to really make sense of the rest as a reference, but I think the number of people who actually have read it cover-to-cover is rather slim.

Anonymous

@Cardinal Can you give an example?

Cardinal

Yes. we have an old technique. now, you propose a new one. you might say:

We propose a new technique under which fault analysis becomes more tractable than the so called "old technique"

Anonymous

Wow, yeah, it really sounds like you don't think "old technique" is a proper name for the old technique.

Anonymous

When you say something is "so-called", you're saying that other people use that label, and the implication is often that you don't want to use that label yourself, possibly because you don't think it's appropriate or accurate.

Cardinal

19:17

@snailplane Oh, I see.

Anonymous

And that's because, if you do think it's an appropriate label, you can usually just use it without saying so. In other words, you could just remove the words so-called.

Cardinal

I think I confused its usage with "broadly adopted".

Anonymous

Take a look at these examples: macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/so-called

Cardinal

@snailplane Oh, I was really wrong about it.

Anonymous

Sense 1 is the most common use, which has a negative connotation, while sense 2 is more neutral.

Cardinal

19:19

So, in its second sense, can it be equal to "broadly adopted"?

Anonymous

Hmm, it's kind of tricky to make it sound like sense 2 in your example . . . I'm not sure why.

Anonymous

@Cardinal It's introducing a label that is widely used, yes.

Anonymous

You know, maybe you could post about this on ELL and get a second opinion. And maybe even a third and a fourth :-)

Anonymous

I think it would make a good question for the main site.

Cardinal

@snailplane LoL.

@snailplane So, I will do that.

user2684291

19:22

Thanks for the info, snailplane.

Does "insinuation" always have negative overtones; can it be used neutrally?

Anonymous

@user2684291 Are you using rekt as gamer slang, or do you feel like it's more general slang?

Anonymous

@user2684291 I don't think insinuation is ever positive.

user2684291

More general slang.

Anonymous

I see!

Anonymous

I might be slightly out-of-touch with slang today :-)

V.V.

19:25

"A nightmare woke up the girl". Can we change it into the passive? Or is it better to use the verb intransitively?

user2684291

@V.V. A passive recast becomes this sentence very well.

Anonymous

@V.V. Yes. That is a "phrasal verb" or verb–particle idiom, in which the verb takes both a direct object and a particle. The "particle" is the intransitive preposition up, which may appear before or after the object:

Anonymous

> A nightmare woke the girl up.

Anonymous

> A nightmare woke up the girl.

Anonymous

Because up can appear before or after the girl, we can see that the girl is an argument of the verb and not the object of a preposition phrase (up the girl is not a preposition phrase).

Anonymous

19:28

We can cast these in the passive:

Anonymous

> The girl was woken up by a nightmare.

Cardinal

@V.V. Is there any noun for this phenomenon?

Anonymous

Although the analysis of phrasal verbs is somewhat controversial, in this sort of case it might help to think of wake up as acting like a single verb taking a direct object.

CowperKettle

V.V.

Thanks, and if I use it intransitively, what preposition to choose? She woke up from??the nightmare.

CowperKettle

19:37

Yekaterinburg in 1890

A nice chute they had

user2684291

@V.V. Yeah, she woke up from a nightmare.

V.V.

A? Or the?

CowperKettle

a

if the nightmare was not mentioned before

Cardinal

zero article ?

V.V.

OK, thanks all.

CowperKettle

19:48

> We send the Wave to find the Wave —
An Errand so divine,
The Messenger enamored too,
Forgetting to return,
We make the wise distinction still,
Soever made in vain,
The sagest time to dam the sea is when the sea is gone —

user2684291

@CowperKettle I'm not a native speaker of English. Both seem fine, but the latter is better.

CowperKettle

(A poem I fail to understand)

@user2684291 maybe I should ask on the main site

later

user2684291

Suit yourself. Teamwork makes the dream work.

CowperKettle

(0:

user2684291

:>

CowperKettle

19:52

Team wok makes the dream wok

V.V.

What exactly don't you understand?

CowperKettle

Nothing!

Send the wave to find the wave? O_O

"Make the wise distinction still"?

"to dam the sea"?

the overall meaning is 0% clear

although this is one of my favorite poems by her

M.A.R.

to @Dam the sea

user2684291

Who can know the will of God?

CowperKettle

It is about God?

The Messenger is Jesus Christ?

Since he forgot to return?

user2684291

19:58

waxes philosophical, then leaps into the abyss and dies.

CowperKettle

the line about distinction is still unclear

> 'Tis round him, near him, here, there, every where;
And there's a courage which grows out of fear,
Perhaps of all most desperate, which will dare
The worst to know it:--when the mountains rear
Their peaks beneath your human foot, and there
You look down o'er the precipice, and drear
The gulf of rock yawns,--you can't gaze a minute
Without an awful wish to plunge within it.

Good night! (0:

M.A.R.

Have a star, poem lover

Damkerng T.

@M.A.R. (^_^)

M.A.R.

!!flip/(^_^)

Ellbot

(づ๑ʖ๑)┛︵)ᵥ‾ᵥ(

M.A.R.

20:05

I wondered what he looks like upside down

user2684291

@M.A.R. And?

M.A.R.

@user2684291 And [insert-witty-comment-about-how-it-looks-wrong]

user2684291

Heh.

@M.A.R. Well, it is wrong side up...

:>

V.V.

MAR, what's this new command?

M.A.R.

It's not a new command I think

It's one of the primary features

Also knowyourmeme.com/memes/flipping-tables

1

Q: What does "stackexchange" mean?

Does stack mean a pile? If so, is it used as a metaphor for exchanging information? If, again, so then what is it about a pile that makes it, but not a box, a metaphor for information exchange?

phrase-meaning

HNQ bait failed. Heh

user2684291

20:17

I actually didn't get the pun until that question (or the answer in the comments) pointed it out.

M.A.R.

I used to think stack meant something like a heap. But I read about it in a comment on meta.SE a while ago

We can offer literal paraphrases of poetic and metaphorical language when the syntax is obscure or difficult, but interpretation of the metaphors themselves is off-topic. — TRomano 6 hours ago

I VTC'd, but is it really OT?

user2684291

@M.A.R. They're complementary in the sense I now believe the pun is based on.

Anonymous

@V.V. Yep, though in that case you can't make it passive.

user2684291

@M.A.R. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_segment#Data There are other data segments (this is platform-dependent, obviously) but those two are most salient.

M.A.R.

@Snail can you please comment on that ^ ? I'm not sure if the question is OT.

Anonymous

20:28

@M.A.R. The "stackexchange" question?

M.A.R.

@snailplane No, the one I put TRomano's comment from.

Anonymous

Oh, let me take a look.

M.A.R.

10 mins ago, by M.A.R.

I VTC'd, but is it really OT?

Damkerng T.

An example against a rather common belief that if you can't find enough number of people having used the something, it's probably ungrammatical/unidiomatic: "Sequential data comes in two main forms" -- If you search for it, you will find exactly one person who ever used it.

user2684291

@M.A.R. What does VTC stand for?

M.A.R.

20:30

@user2684291 Vote To Close

And OT is off-topic

user2684291

The interpretation of metaphors can be opinion-based, that's why it's potentially off-topic.

Willow Rex

could anyone who understands grammar help me here: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/52892/mrt-and-willow thanks!

Damkerng T.

What question is it about?

Hmm... let's see if I can help anyway.

M.A.R.

It seems to be about meaning

Damkerng T.

@M.A.R. The comment is more than adequate! :D

user2684291

20:34

@DamkerngT. That's the spirit.

Damkerng T.

LOL

Willow Rex

20:51

next time I'll know HOW to ask for help, but thanks both of you.

Damkerng T.

I hope I was helpful. :)

M.A.R.

I hope I was helpful. :)

Cardinal

< Listening to Deuter - Atmospheres >

Damkerng T.

1

Q: Do you pronounce foreigner's names with the foreign pronunciation?

Some names, like "Michael" sound dramatically different depending on whether you pronounce them the German or English way. Which one do you use when talking in English?

pronunciation

I know that my name is not the easiest name to pronounce for most English speakers. :)

M.A.R.

Damking

Damkerng T.

21:04

Hehe!

Google Translate can give you a good approximation of the pronunciation of my name: ดำเกิง

M.A.R.

Easy enough for an Azeri-Persian hybrid

Cardinal

How is the stress of your name /Dam . Kerng/?

Damkerng T.

But note that it usually sounds way livelier than that!

@Cardinal No stressing.

M.A.R.

@DamkerngT. Like this? DAMKEEEEEEEEERNG

Damkerng T.

It's a long vowel, but probably not that long!

M.A.R.

21:06

I was being lively

Damkerng T.

Haha!

M.A.R.

Tell you what, I pronounced your name correctly first time we met™

Damkerng T.

I think Google's pronunciation uses a pitch much lower than most speakers.

@M.A.R. Nice!

M.A.R.

Except I pronounced the ''g''

Damkerng T.

In the place of k?

M.A.R.

21:08

No, in the end

Damkerng T.

Oh! I see.

Cardinal

@M.A.R. same here.

M.A.R.

The vowel is all that matters though

@Cardinal Yeah, I guess it's because /g/ in Persian is commoner and stronger than in Thaiglish

Cardinal

@M.A.R. Ohom! ^-^

M.A.R.

78

Q: I am uncomfortable about students taking pictures of the blackboard, because I don't like appearing in them

It seems to be the trend that less and less students take notes in class. Lately, and particularly this semester, for some reason, I have been noticing that several students take pictures of the blackboards with their phones in lieu of taking notes. While I'm not necessarily against this, if it ...

teaching privacy audio-video-recording

Damkerng T.

21:10

@M.A.R. I guess your native language has the "ng" sound as well.

M.A.R.

Academia and TWP are Quora.SE

@DamkerngT. Yup, and a lot of it

Damkerng T.

nods

@M.A.R. "It seems to be the trend that less and less students take notes in class." -- Most students nowadays just don't do the easiest thing that can help them remember the lessons!

M.A.R.

Yeah, taking notes is magic.

Cardinal

Like "Jang" which means "war"!

M.A.R.

But time-consuming

@Cardinal No plenking, as @user2 would say

Cardinal

21:12

Plenking? what does that mean :-)

M.A.R.

Space before punctuation mark

It's French, not English

Cardinal

Oh, :-)

M.A.R.

BTW

Damkerng T.

By the way, the question above makes me wonder, if students don't take notes in their classes, what do they do?

Enjoy the ride, perhaps? :D

M.A.R.

Arabic's Shenanigans

51 mins ago, 26 minutes total – 18 messages, 5 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 8 secs ago by M.A.R.

Cardinal

21:16

@M.A.R. Are you allowed to have cellphones in the school?

M.A.R.

@Cardinal Nope

@DamkerngT. Playing with their phones. We do have such students in our class. They browse Instagram and Facebook.

Damkerng T.

Oh! Right!

Cardinal

@M.A.R. I never understood what is the exact usage of Instagram. I think it is very absurd!

M.A.R.

@Cardinal Social media, other than the very general and restricted use of following important news, is absurd.

Cardinal

@M.A.R. Or maybe telegram which is highly popular over here

M.A.R.

21:19

@Cardinal That's usually after school

Cardinal

@M.A.R. Oh, so there is some sort of discipline in killing time. It's promising :))

M.A.R.

@Cardinal Only in school for gifted babies

Cardinal

@M.A.R. I see.

My generation's way for killing time was playing soccer, of course I'm talking about the healthy ones!

That dates me, but that's the game. We grow and things change quickly.

M.A.R.

@Cardinal I'm pretty sure if your generation had access to iPhones, it would've tossed the soccer ball to a corner.

Cardinal

@M.A.R. Exactly.

I said that objectively. That does not give us any privilege.

M.A.R.

21:26

Who knows, I might be telling the next generation ''My generation's way for killing time was going to school on a bike or a bus. Your generation sits down and doesn't move all day''

@Cardinal I envy the times when the western culture hadn't clashed with normal people's.

People lived a much healthier mental life then.

Cardinal

What is the difference between "relation" and "relationship" when referring to the connection between two things?

> the relation between the sun exposure and food spoilage

or

relationship

Arabic's Shenanigans

Transcript for