Language Overflow

IͶΔ

09:05

@snailboat Fun?

user62015

The demonstration passed off without incidence or incident?

Which one is right?

@IͶΔ @DamkerngT.

IͶΔ

Passed off?

Incidence

user62015

Thanks.

IͶΔ

If it were "incident", you'd need a determiner.

Damkerng T.

Huh? I think it's incident.

user62015

09:12

Yes.

Damkerng T.

Another fixed phrase, I think.

user62015

Next question, As the driver swerved violently at the turning, the wheel came off, as it was already loose or lost?

Thanks.

IͶΔ

Wait, it would need a determiner in "incidence"'s case too. O_O

Damkerng T.

@user62015 'as it was already ____' -- what kind of word would you think it fits the bill?

Between adj. and v.

user62015

loose

lost

Damkerng T.

09:15

Yes!

user62015

an action

which one?

lost

Damkerng T.

Ah! So you're not sure!

Okay, let's have another look at the sentence. The wheel came off, as it was already ____.

If we used lost, what would the sentence mean?

user62015

not on track

Damkerng T.

Ah, thanks! @MAR

Hmm... can a wheel come off if you already lost it?

Anonymous

Yeah, just without incident, no determiner necessary.

IͶΔ

09:19

Hmm

user62015

Thanks.

Next question: His profession is teaching but his ......is photography

avocation, vacation, vocation, vocative

IͶΔ

Avocation I guess.

Wouldn't this stuff be obvious once you checked it in the dictionary?

Damkerng T.

@user62015 This is probably best answered by using a dictionary.

user62015

Thanks.

One last: Some verbs need a ---- to convey the full meaning. I think complement would be better here?

Anonymous

That pass off phrase isn't really familiar to me, but I see it in dictionaries. Maybe it's BrE?

Damkerng T.

09:22

@IͶΔ Wait, is avocation a real word?

IͶΔ

@DamkerngT. Dictionary says so

Damkerng T.

Oh, it is.

IͶΔ

@snailboat Yeah, I think that was why I O_o'd and gave the wrong answer.

Anonymous

bbc.com/news/10356095

Araucaria

@Kurzd Sorry 'bout that. Was it about monkey puzzle trees?

IͶΔ

09:32

@Kurzd welcome to LO!

Damkerng T.

Hey, this is interesting!

total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html

> UGT (abbr.): Universal Greeting Time.
UGT is convention initially established in #mipslinux on irc.openprojects.net (now irc.freenode.net) but slowly taking over the world. It states that it is always morning when person comes into a channel, and it is always late night when person leaves. Local time of any member of channel is irrelevant. Resistance is futile. Your ass will be laminated. (geoman is exception to this rule - his ass will be fried instead).

Araucaria

Oh, on the subject of specifying BE ...:

3

A: "It's difficult organising me" or "It's difficult organising myself"

First of all this is not a good rule. The rules for reflexive pronouns are very complex, which is probably the most important thing to know. Nonetheless, here are some generalisations we can make: We require reflexive pronouns when they co-refer with a noun phrase earlier in the immediate clause...

Damkerng T.

Interesting question!

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. I thought so, but I think it'll get closed shortly ( I think people think it's a dupe, but it isn't ...) :-)

John Clifford

Howdy.

IͶΔ

09:40

@Araucaria Love the book feeling to the shots

@JohnClifford Hullo

John Clifford

@snailboat You were asking me a question about tag questions the other day?

IͶΔ

0

A: "It's difficult organising me" or "It's difficult organising myself"

I think most people simply say... It's hard getting (or keeping) organized. Or... Gosh, I'm so unorganized!

Yuck! ELL answer on ELU

@JohnClifford Yeah, how common are "mustn't" tag questions there?

Damkerng T.

@JohnClifford Hi! how was the marathon going?

IͶΔ

What marathon?

Damkerng T.

John mentioned some long gaming session a couple days ago.

John Clifford

09:41

In British English I think they're fairly common, not so much with Scots.

The game jam was pretty good, we didn't win but we came up with a decent concept which we're developing further.

Damkerng T.

Nice!

IͶΔ

@DamkerngT. One day, I'll start paying attention.

John Clifford

I'm not going to hold my breath. ;)

Araucaria

@IͶΔ The archive.org copy wasn't scanned very well!

IͶΔ

What kinda game was it?

@Araucaria (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Araucaria

09:43

@IͶΔ I can't decode that emoji/thingie ...

John Clifford

We made a platformer called Elemelons, where you have to use melons with different elemental abilities to solve puzzles.

@Araucaria Angry guy flipping a table.

Araucaria

@JohnClifford How come I couldn't work that out on my own!

IͶΔ

@Araucaria Table flip, internet meme. You guys shouldn't know this, it's OK.

Araucaria

@IͶΔ Us guys = wrinkly people, or linguists?

John Clifford

@Araucaria Because you are as-yet untainted by the darkest corners of the internet and must be protected before your inevitable corruption.

IͶΔ

09:45

Wrinkuists

Araucaria

Ah, got to go test some Ss, back a bit later to see if any of you are still around

IͶΔ

o_o

Are we supposed not to?

John Clifford

I'm always around, even when I'm not.

Damkerng T.

o/

Araucaria

\o

IͶΔ

09:47

|o

John Clifford

Aww, I've been knocked out of the star list.

Gotta start saying funny stuff again to get back up there. :D

Damkerng T.

Aww :-)

Anonymous

The stars your destination.

Damkerng T.

Is there a way to search for some string in chat rooms network-wide?

IͶΔ

@DamkerngT. Yes. Click "all rooms" and type in the search bar.

Damkerng T.

09:50

Thanks!

IͶΔ

chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=Hahahaha

For instance, mustn't it

Damkerng T.

LOL

John Clifford

Mustn't your example have a question mark to be considered a tag question? ;)

Damkerng T.

looking for a way to compile (or crossed-compile) WebKitGtk here...

John Clifford

What's preventing you from doing so?

Damkerng T.

09:53

I don't know how to start. It seems like I'm going to fail if I try it on Windows.

And the info on the web I found mentioned something rather old, like from two years ago.

Anonymous

This is a tag question, innit…

IͶΔ

@JohnClifford We want to overflow mustn't in the world, mustn't we.

Question mark or not, making sense or not, we're gonna use it, mustn't we.

John Clifford

Guess we must.

Damkerng T.

Must, we think!

IͶΔ

I feel like Yoda.

Mustn't I

John Clifford

09:56

You must feel like Yoda, mustn't you?

Araucaria

10:40

@JohnClifford I'm from the Highlands. They're pretty common up there. I've just been checking out Trainspotting to see if IW used many in that. There's quite a few. Not that that says anything really ...

tchrist

11:07

@snailboat Terra is your nation.

John Clifford

11:20

@Araucaria You're from the highlands too?

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

The raiders are the nation @tchrist ;)

tchrist

ENOLIT?

Sᴋᴜʟʟ ᴘᴇᴛʀᴏʟ

We all know it :D

Happy 10th birthday Twitter.

I just started using it :-/

Damkerng T.

1

A: Phrase to use instead of "Could you please"

Don't use please in this position after the auxiliary verb unless you are annoyed or you are speaking to someone from a position of authority. It could accidentally offend the person you are writing to. See here for more details. Some other phrases you could use are: Would it be possible to ....

Good thing you're around! @Araucaria

Damkerng T.

11:54

From Python Documentation: min_mag(x, y): Compares the values numerically with their sign ignored. -- By the way, a variable name in your code is really on-topic. — Damkerng T. 2 mins ago

Oofs!

From Python Documentation: min_mag(x, y): Compares the values numerically with their sign ignored. -- By the way, I don't think a variable name in your code is really on-topic. — Damkerng T. 2 mins ago

user62015

Hi! @DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

Hi! Once again, I'm about to leave. :-)

user62015

I am sending you some points, which I found online but I think there are many typo

11. Ask, advise, allow, command, force, forbid, invite, encourage, compel, beg, order•, imagine, instruct, permit, persuade, tell, require, remind, teach, etc. are followed by Object + To +V2
For example,
Incorrect- He advised to do it by me.
Correct- He advised me to do it. But if these are used in Passive Voice, then they are followed by To +V,.
For example,
Correct- She was permitted to go with him.

Damkerng T.

I'd better let others discuss it for now.

It'll take a while before I come back.

Damkerng T.

12:24

Aww... nobody else was here.

@user62015 What are the typos in your mind?

user62015

v2

It should have been v1

sscnaukari.in/2014/08/…

point 11

Damkerng T.

It depends on how they define V2, I think.

user62015

ok

Damkerng T.

But I think V2 is natural enough.

E.g., They asked her to leave. It's quite natural to think of asked as V1, and leave as V2.

user62015

But he has used v1 in the example

Okay.

I understood now.

Thanks. You made sense

Damkerng T.

12:28

Yay!

user62015

Have a nice time. See you around.

Damkerng T.

Thanks! You too. See you around!

V.V.

12:40

Hi, Damkerng! How are you?

Damkerng T.

Hi! I'm good, thanks! How are you?

V.V.

I am OK!

Damkerng T.

Yay!

V.V.

Just came for a minute between lessons.

My connection is better now. But the weather ia awful.

Damkerng T.

Aww... I hope it's comfortable enough for you.

V.V.

12:51

It was minus ten at night

Damkerng T.

Brrr!

V.V.

They promise it might be warmer tomorrow. Let's hope.

Damkerng T.

Let's hope for that together. :D

John Clifford

13:26

-dances-

user62015

14:42

Hi

John Clifford

Hi.

user62015

Could you help me with English?

John Clifford

I wouldn't be here if I couldn't. :D

user62015

Okay, Thanks.

5. When the Subjects joined by 'or/nor are of different numbers, the Verb must be Plural, and the Plural Subject must be placed next to the Verb.
For example,
lncorrect- Neither the Assistant Masters nor the Headmaster was present.
Correct- Neither the Headmaster nor the Assistant Masters were
present. '

It says, lncorrect- Neither the Assistant Masters nor the Headmaster was present.

John Clifford

Right.

user62015

14:45

Why is it wrong?

John Clifford

Because you're saying that two subjects were missing: "the assistant masters" and "the headmaster".

Therefore, using the singular "was" is incorrect.

user62015

But there is nor

There is a rule neither the subject nor the subject

John Clifford

Yes, and it says that when the subjects joined by or/nor are of different numbers, you use the plural verb and plural subject next to the verb.

Plural verb is "were" and the plural subject is "the assistant masters" so it should go next to the were.

user62015

In this case, The helping verb depends on the last shubject.

subject*

John Clifford

As the plural subject needs to go next to the verb, the verb also needs to agree with it, requiring a plural.

It's incorrect to list the plural subject followed by the singular.

user62015

14:50

Let me read.

So, Is it correct?

John Clifford

"Neither the Headmaster nor the Assistant Masters were present." is correct.

user62015

Yes.

But "lncorrect- Neither the Assistant Masters nor the Headmaster was present."

Why is it incorrect?

John Clifford

Because it switches the order of the subjects.

The singular should come first, then the plural.

user62015

and the Plural Subject must be placed next to the Verb.

Right?

John Clifford

Yes.

user62015

14:54

Great.

John Clifford

That's why it comes second, because of where the verb is.

user62015

So we cannot use the singular subject after nor?

John Clifford

Not if there's also a plural subject. Technically speaking you could, but it sounds unnatural.

Consider another example: Neither Peter nor his parents were aware of this. (More natural than ‘Neither his parents nor Peter was aware of this.)

user62015

Okay.

Any exception?

John Clifford

Not that I'm aware of.

user62015

14:57

Great.

Thank you so much.

Could I ask you something?

John Clifford

You're welcome. Anything else you need?

Sure.

user62015

Are you getting late or you are going to stay online?

John Clifford

I'm at work, so I'll be here for a while. :P

user62015

Great.

Have we talked before this chatting?

John Clifford

I don't believe so.

user62015

14:59

Okay.

How often do you come online here?

John Clifford

I'm here pretty much every day.

user62015

Great.

Have a great time.

John Clifford

You too.

user62015

See you around.

Damkerng T.

Stephen Commissions A New Version Of 'Danny Boy'

►

The song got new lyrics!

@JohnClifford Did you dance like Stephen Colbert in the video (at 0:27)? :-)

John Clifford

15:04

I did.

Damkerng T.

Nice! :-)

IͶΔ

Noice. (-:

Damkerng T.

Would you like more ice?

John Clifford

I serve just-ice.

Damkerng T.

Is it ice, or ice-ice?

John Clifford

15:12

Icy what you did there.

Damkerng T.

:P

IͶΔ

mice dice

Damkerng T.

LOL -- This is even funnier!

Barely Restrained Sorrow Theatre With William H. Macy

►

John Clifford

2

Damkerng T.

LOL

Marek

15:41

Are there clauses correct?

IͶΔ

@Marek Wha?

Marek

I looked for him in the room ? I looked the room for him ?

IͶΔ

Are those questions?

Damkerng T.

I looked the room for him sounds very odd.

(to me, at least)

Marek

yes

Thanks

Damkerng T.

15:50

No problem. :D

IͶΔ

16:02

Corollary to Hofstadter's Law: Every minute you spend thinking about Hofstadter's Law is a minute you're NOT WORKING AND WILL NEVER FINISH! PAAAAAANIIIIIIC!

CowperKettle

Dobry vecher, @V.V., and congrats on your answer.

IͶΔ

@DamkerngT. If not ungrammatical

Marek

Do the sentences mean the same and are they correct ? His winning was not until for a second time. He won only for a second time.

Damkerng T.

I think both of them sound a little off.

John Clifford

Neither of those are correct English.

Do you mean it's his second win in total of anything he's ever won? Or his second time winning a particular prize?

IͶΔ

16:06

> He didn't win until his second try.

Best shot I got.

Damkerng T.

He won for only a second time (this time) is probably okay, but it sounds too BrE for me to be sure.

IͶΔ

You mean too Shakespearish.

John Clifford

"It was the second time he'd won anything" or "He won for the second time."

IͶΔ

Or not thy Shakespeare, but at least Stoney-ish.

John Clifford

Depends on what is actually meant.

I think INA might have it.

He didn't win until his second try is what you want if it took him two attempts to win.

Marek

16:08

I mean : He didn't win until his second try.

John Clifford

That's the correct version then.

You could say attempt instead of try.

Damkerng T.

Oh, then you should stick with the basic pattern.

nods

John Clifford

You could also change it to "He won on his second try." as that has a more positive connotation of success than focusing on the fact that he didn't win the first time.

IͶΔ

I award myself a mindreader badge. ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ

@JohnClifford Doesn't seem to be his focus though, his sentences suggest.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... maybe It wasn't until the second time that he (finally) won.

IͶΔ

16:12

Children story-telling. Works in news agencies

Damkerng T.

Maybe finally works better with a larger N for the Nth time.

IͶΔ

BTW I've never seen a truer xkcd comic than today's.

Damkerng T.

xkcd is not on my daily reading list, sadly.

John Clifford

But why?

IͶΔ

@DamkerngT. Scratch that "sadly". It's just a comic. No biggie

Damkerng T.

16:15

@IͶΔ Hmm... I mean, I could add it to my feed or something, but I don't. :-)

John Clifford

Do you have Perry Bible Fellowship?

Damkerng T.

Nope. :D

IͶΔ

@JohnClifford No, thanks. I just had lunch.

Damkerng T.

Huh? Those are dark humor!

John Clifford

So subtle in some of them.

CowperKettle

16:21

Good evening, chatters!

Damkerng T.

Perry Bible Fellowship makes A Prairie Home Companion's Guy Noir sound like a bedtime story!

@CowperKettle Good morning!

IͶΔ

@CowperKettle \o

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. I hope it's a fine morning in Bangkok!

IͶΔ

I just tried in Shadow's Den, and I can type nicely with eyes closed.

Damkerng T.

trying out UGT here...

IͶΔ

16:23

Sawasdee Khrap Khun @Cowper

Damkerng T.

7 hours ago, by Damkerng T.

> UGT (abbr.): Universal Greeting Time.
UGT is convention initially established in #mipslinux on irc.openprojects.net (now irc.freenode.net) but slowly taking over the world. It states that it is always morning when person comes into a channel, and it is always late night when person leaves. Local time of any member of channel is irrelevant. Resistance is futile. Your ass will be laminated. (geoman is exception to this rule - his ass will be fried instead).

CowperKettle

@IͶΔ Khun Assalam, Muhammad.

Damkerng T.

:P

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. Ah!

IͶΔ

@CowperKettle That was Thai, not Arabic.

CowperKettle

16:24

@IͶΔ Really? (0:

IͶΔ

Ja

Ask Khrap Khun @Dam king

CowperKettle

Oh, it's half hour to midnight in Bangkok. Hagu has another 6 hours to wait for his morning food.

Damkerng T.

@IͶΔ Thook Tong Na Khrap! (English: That's right!)

CowperKettle

I see. "That's No Crap" = "That's right"

Sounds logical.

Damkerng T.

Haha!

CowperKettle

16:26

(0:

IͶΔ

It would be nice to have the slightest idea how to pronounce these.

Damkerng T.

A moment...

ถูกต้องนะคร้าบบบบบบ

►

IͶΔ

O_o I thought you were gonna type IPA.

Damkerng T.

I thought you wanted a real audio example. :D

CowperKettle

Laoduangduan

►

Damkerng T.

16:34

Oh, what a classic!

CowperKettle

I searched for "traditional thai songs"

Hope it's a good song.

Sounds nice.

Damkerng T.

nods -- It's a love song.

CowperKettle

Because you know, pop is pop all over the globe, but folk songs could be great.

Damkerng T.

A man expresses his love for his lover to the Moon.

This song was originally sung by men, if I'm not mistaken.

And the words are very beautiful. (No one talks like that anymore nowadays.)

A-ha! We have a Wikipedia page for it!

ลาวดวงเดือน

เพลงลาวดวงเดือน เป็นเพลงไทยเดิม == ประวัติ == ประวัติของเพลงลาวดวงเดือน มีอยู่ว่า เมื่อพระเจ้าบรมวงศ์เธอ พระองค์เจ้าเพ็ญพัฒนพงศ์ กรมหมื่นพิไชยมหินทโรดมได้เสด็จไปนครเชียงใหม่ และเกิดชอบพอกับเจ้าหญิงชมชื่น พระธิดาองค์โตของเจ้าราชสัมพันธวงศ์และเจ้าหญิงคำย่น ณ ลำพูน โปรดให้ข้าหลวงใหญ่มณฑลพายัพเป็นเถ้าแก่เจรจาสู่ขอ แต่ได้รับการทัดทาน ไม่มีโอกาสที่จะได้สมรสกัน ทำให้พระองค์โศกเศร้ามาก และได้ทรงพระนิพนธ์เพลงนี้ขึ้น เมื่อใดที่ทรงระลึกถึงเจ้าหญิงชมชื่น ก็จะทรงดนตรีเพลงลาวดำเนินเกวียน (ลาวดวงเดือน) เพลงนี้ หรือให้มหาดเล็กเล่นให้ฟัง มาตลอดพระชนม์ชีพ และสิ้นพระชนม์เมื่อพระชนมายุได้เพียง 28 พรรษา ด้วยโรคปอดเร...

The lyrics:

>
โอ้ละหนอดวงเดือนเอ่ย พี่มาเว้ารักเจ้าสาวคำดวง
โอ้ว่าดึกแล้วหนอพี่ขอลาล่วง อกพี่เป็นห่วงรักเจ้าดวงเดือนเอย
ขอลาแล้วเจ้าแก้วโกสุม(เอื้อน) พี่นี้รักเจ้าหนอขวัญตาเรียม
จะหาไหนมาเทียมโอ้เจ้าดวงเดือนเอย (ซ้ำ)
หอมกลิ่นเกสร เกสรดอกไม้ หอมกลิ่นคล้ายคล้ายเจ้าสูเรียมเอย (ซ้ำ)
หอมกลิ่นกรุ่นครันหอมนั้นยังบ่เลย เนื้อหอมทรามเชยเอยเราละเหนอ

โอ้ละหนอนวลตาเอย พี่นี้รักแสนรักดังดวงใจ
โอ้เป็นกรรมต้องจำจากไป อกพี่อาลัยเจ้าดวงเดือนเอย
เห็นเดือนแรมเริศร้างเวหา เบิ่งดูฟ้า(ละหนอ)เห็นมืดมน
พี่ทนทุกข์ทุกข์ทนโอ้เจ้าดวงเดือนเอย

Hmm...

I think the first verse should be โอ้ละหนอดวงเดือนเอย (rather than เอ่ย)

IͶΔ

I'm gonna copy-paste random parts of that song in the future.

Piracy is a thing.

Damkerng T.

16:40

LOL

CowperKettle

(0:

IͶΔ

หอมกลิ่นคล้ายคล้ายเจ้าสูเรียมเอย (ซ้ำ)
หอมกลิ่นกรุ่นครันหอมนั้นยังบ่เลย เนื้อหอมทรามเชยเอยเราละเหนอ.

Damkerng T.

(ซ้ำ) ~ (repeat)

CowperKettle

> “This song is Copyrighted in U.S., under Seal of Copyright # 154085, for a period of 28 years, and anybody caught singin it without our permission, will be mighty good friends of ourn, cause we don’t give a dern. Publish it. Write it. Sing it. Swing to it. Yodel it. We wrote it, that’s all we wanted to do.”

(Woody Guthrie)

IͶΔ

@CowperKettle Makes sense, since if หวานสุดแล้วหวานแจ้วเจื้อยเอย (ซ้ำ) หอมกลิ่นกรุ่นครันหอมนั้นยังบ่เลย เนื้อหอมทรามเชยเอยเราละเหนอ, then พี่ทนทุกข์ทุกข์ทนโอ้เจ้าดวงเดือนเอย.

Wondering if @Dam's CPU has over-loaded yet.

Damkerng T.

16:45

o_O

CowperKettle

(0:

Damkerng T.

เพลง ดวงจำปา เวอร์ชั่น ลาว

►

A nice song from a neighbor. (Laos) ^_^

CowperKettle

Is it in Thai?

Damkerng T.

No, it's in Laotian.

CowperKettle

Are they cognate?

Damkerng T.

16:49

Yes!

CowperKettle

Do you understand aught?

Damkerng T.

About 90% of it, comfortably.

CowperKettle

Ah, great!

Наливаймо, браття, кришталеві чаші / Pour, brothers, crystal bowls

►

Damkerng T.

Oh, the introduction is quite grand!

CowperKettle

I understand about 30% by ear, and reading the lyrics I get about 80%.

(0:

Damkerng T.

16:53

Oh, it's not in Russian?!

CowperKettle

Yes, it's in Ukrainian, which is extremely close to Russian.

Damkerng T.

A-ha!

CowperKettle

I went to a Ukrainian kindergarten while in Siberia, actually. (0:

And picked up some Ukrainian there. (0:

Damkerng T.

A-ha! So you're a natural bilingual!

CowperKettle

Maybe. (0:

My grandma is from Ukraine:

Narodychi

Narodychi (Ukrainian: Народичі) is an urban-type settlement in Narodychi Raion, Zhytomyr Oblast, northern Ukraine. It is the administrative center of the Narodychi Raion. It lies on the northern side of the Uzh River, 134 kilometres northwest of Kiev. Population: 2,581 (2013 est.) == History == Narodytchi is located in the historic region of Polesia. Narodytchi was first mentioned in historical records in 1545. It attained the status of an urban-type settlement in 1958. The Chernobyl disaster in 1986 had an extremely negative impact on all spheres of life in Narodychi. According to the Cabinet...

It's almost a ghost town now, due to the radiation.

Damkerng T.

16:58

Aww

That's quite far!

CowperKettle

Yes. (0:

Kurzd

I am so lost

Damkerng T.

@Kurzd But you're here now! :D

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. You'll be amazed if you draw a map line to the place my grandma met my grandpa, in Vladivostok

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