The Nineteenth Byte

Ginger

00:44

@RydwolfPrograms what exactly is this emoticon? :b

@RydwolfPrograms what? tell us!

OldSandboxPosts

01:00

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Longest N-Sum Sub-Array code-golf array subsequence integer, Cheat at Chess code-golf chess grid

Ginger

@OldSandboxPosts @lyxal you're a member of r/AnarchyChess, any idea what "Chess code-golf chess grid" is? I've never heard of it

user

@RydwolfPrograms You should've realized by now that CS terms don't always make much sense

Not just a CS problem, actually, math terms are weird too, and perhaps terms in other subjects

@Simd Looks like a normal Python dict should be good enough, then. This shelve thing seems to be for dictionaries that you store for later

Probably won't be fast if it has to do lots of file I/O

Although you did say it's read-only so I guess it only has to load the thing once

lyxal

01:15

@OldSandboxPosts that's actually called the Siberian swipe

user

Let me guess, r/anarchychess reference? Do you just knock all the pieces off the board?

Ok, less crazy than that but still classic r/anarchychess

lyxal

Note that this cheat method isn't actually cheating - it's what chess anarchists like myself call the Siberian swipe. Note that it can only be performed if the h file pawn hasn't been moved and if the h file rook hasn't been moved as well. — lyxal 59 secs ago

Disappointing that there's no knooks, double check, il vaticano, knight boosting, long passant and knight roost in the challenge

user

It's hard to keep up with all those rules

Why are there so many of them? Like, I'm all for new memes but these aren't particularly original, it's just new arbitrary rules that you then need to memorize to be able to understand subsequent memes

lyxal

That's half the joke

The joke is that you can just claim whatever bs you want

Confused by a fake move? Counter with one of your own! :p

@user the anarchy chess reddit wiki has a list of all the memes

Ginger

so I can claim that the move "Dynamic Quantum Holistic Multidimensional Telecheck" allows me to move a piece through the imaginary dimensions across the complex plane to instantly cause a checkmate?

lyxal

01:27

@Ginger you sure can :p

Ginger

cool

lyxal

And if it's funny enough, people will create puzzles involving it

@user reddit.com/r/anarchychess/wiki/index

user

Oh nice, thanks

That's really helpful (unironically)

lyxal

@Ginger you can also manipulate the board shape, add all sorts of other things like portals, tanks and sprites from other games, and you can even use the pieces from the promotion menu on chess.c*m for checkmates

Ginger

@lyxal ooh I've always wanted to have a space elevator in chess

user

01:35

Oh noes, we just had another off-topic conversation. @lyxal, time for some teleportation?

Ginger

~~sick beat~~

lyxal

@user nah it's fine. It's somewhat relevant to the sandboxed challenge. Plus, I'm on mobile which is terrible for moving things :p

Speaking of anarchy chess, any feedback on codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/25499/78850

@user see, now the conversation serves as relevant context to my sandbox proposal feedback request :p

user

lol

Jo King

03:56

chess is sort of like the english language right? if you get enough people to accept a new ruling, it becomes canon and other people have to obey it

user

Well, there's plenty of forks, but none of those new rules have been merged upstream yet

Too many approving reviews needed

emanresu A

04:59

Can someone who's good at sounding official say something along the lines of "we need more best of nominations, get over here"

lyxal

05:09

PSA: The call for best of 2022 nominations needs more nominations. Currently, only 1 category is contested, with every other category having 0 or 1 nomination(s). Find what you enjoyed in 2022 and go nominate it, otherwise there'll be a lot of free rep wasted.

7

@emanresuA a little bit like that?

AviFS

07:09

@lyxal PSA: In case this language is too official, he's saying something along the lines of "we need more best nominations, get over here."

@pxeger o/

@Ginger He has a lot of friends

emanresu A

07:59

If I have to create 2/3 of the best of nominations, I will

mousetail

Looking forward to that

pxeger

@AviFS \o

@RydwolfPrograms ATO already runs every invocation in a tmpfs. The server has 2GiB of RAM.

emanresu A

08:14

It's okay to nominate posts for multiple categories right?

pxeger

I don't see why not

Ginger

12:09

@lyxal jesse we need to make more nominations jesse

mousetail

Who is Jesse?

mathcat

Jesse is the unknown, a mysterious figure whose true identity and motives are yet to be uncovered. He operates in the shadows, leaving little trace of his actions and always one step ahead of those trying to uncover his secrets.

mousetail

And he sometimes nominates posts for Best of CGCC?

mathcat

apparently, yes.

lyxal

...

you nerds clearly haven't broken bad

mousetail

12:23

I prefer keeping my bad side in one piece

Ginger

I construct good :p

lyxal

just in case y'all aren't being /j

mathcat

@mousetail why does that remind me of horcruxes.

mousetail

I don't remember enough about Harry Potter to know

Harry Potter is the one about the bald guy making drugs right?

lyxal

@mousetail Jesse, we need to make more magic

mathcat

12:27

...

This is the best summary of Harry Potter I've ever seen.

mousetail

r/explainafilmplotbadly

Ginger

13:14

@lyxal nonsense, my tortured human souls are 99.1% pure tortured human souls

New Posts

13:47

0

Q: Implement a 2fuck interpreter

2fuck is a simple 2d variation on brainfuck. Like brainfuck, there is a tape that extends 30000 bytes to the right, consisting of values between 0 and 255. Arithmetic should wrap around, adding 1 to 255 sets the cell to 0, and moving right from cell 29999 should move the pointer back to 0. The co...

Rydwolf Programs

14:18

@user Yeah but that's not a standard CS term is it?

Rust semi-officially uses Ser and De for serialize and deserialize

mousetail

Pickle is a proper noun, not a generic name for serialization. It's a very specific protocol

Rydwolf Programs

@Ginger My cat's favorite food is goldfish. Not real fish, goldfish crackers. The little orange ones. She will smell hear you pouring them from across the house. I once left a little bowl of them sitting out, and she just started eating them. Half the bowl gone by the time I finished swapping out a hard drive.

Rydwolf Programs

14:40

@pxeger Just let me have my fun buying shady DRAM off Ebay :p

mousetail

Nice number of users

Adám

14:55

Probably an overflow error of some sort /j

user

16:13

Just came upon this article: Undefined behavior can result in time travel (among other things, but time travel is the funkiest) (apparently it's pretty famous but maybe there are other people like me here who hadn't heard of it before)

Ginger

lmao

user

UB is so cursed

Rydwolf Programs

17:28

Lmao what yeah

I thought it was just like, some things like accessing uninitialized memory might give you different results on different compilers, and typically compilers would do whatever's quickest. Not...that

mousetail

Famously GCC assumes the colatz conjecture is false

Rydwolf Programs

Really?

I can find a Reddit post about Clang opimizing out infinite recursion, but nothing about GCC. Sounds like it'd have a cool explanation behind it tho

mousetail

17:44

Basically it sometimes assumes loops terminate

DLosc

@RydwolfPrograms They are salty and crunchy--what's not to like? :3

mousetail

So there was a specific program that would terminate only if the conjecture was true/false (don't remember) and GCC optimized the whole loop away

Rydwolf Programs

I really don't get my cats' tastes. Goldfish crackers? Yep. Meat? Nope. Fish? Sometimes. Avocado paste? You bet.

Ginger

> avocado paste

ಠ_ಠ

Adám

Heretic cat! Everyone knows that avocado juice is far superior to avocado paste.

4

Ginger

17:52

do cat kno how to juic avocad?

user

Yes, but since these obviously aren't real cats, they can only make avocado paste

@RydwolfPrograms Wait a second, have you been trying to make avocado juice and feeding your cats the remains of your experiments?

Because I can't think of another reason you'd have a bunch of avocado paste lying around for your cats to eat

@mousetail Not really, it only assumes it's false for ints and other fixed size integers iirc

mousetail

This is based on a short article I barely remember, very possible

Rydwolf Programs

18:20

@user Yes actually

Well, I didn't intentionally give the paste to my cat

But I made way too much

The experiments were rather successful but extremely time consuming with the equipment I had

I got a very small amount of dilute juice, decided to leave it extracting while I went to work and when I came back most of it had been spilled and the rest had turned brown, so I kinda lost motivation to continue

I still never got to taste it, not gonna try again for a while tho because my family wasn't too happy with me using up their counter space for six hours

Ginger

SCIENCE!

Rydwolf Programs

I'm currently the high bidder for both RAM kits, with 24h left. Spicy :p
I think everyone interested in buying them has already gotten one, since there've been dozens of these auctioned off, so my odds are pretty good I get at least one

Ginger

noice

user

18:43

Could someone who knows Python help me? I'm trying to find a way to pipe stuff between a Python program run from the CLI and another Python daemon

Ginger

eh?

user

But you can't really store file descriptors that os.pipe returns, so I'm not sure how to have them communicate

@Ginger Basically, I have a program named foo

When you run foo the first time, it starts a daemon

After that, when you run foo some args, it sends those arguments and the stdin to the daemon, then gets whatever the daemon outputted and prints that

Can I do this with just Unix pipes or do I have to make a whole server?

mousetail

@user You could use a named pipe?

user

Thanks!

Yeah that seems to be perfect

mousetail

Not sure if you can send it to STDIN directly if that's a hard requirement, you may need a wrapper process to read the pipe and turn write it to STDIN

user

18:48

Oh

Should be doable, I guess

mousetail

Can you control the script? You can maybe just assign the file of the pipe to stdin

user

Yeah both sides are written by me

mousetail

But some library requires it to explicitly be stdin and not some other file to take input?

user

Yeah

There's this build tool called sbt that has its own shell and makes you enter commands there instead of having a daemon and letting you do sbt compile/test/whatever every time you want to run it

I'm just trying to wrap around that

mousetail

It really depends on the library where it looks for stdin, some look for sys.stdin, some look for sys.stdin.pid, some just always look for pid 0. In the first 2 cases it's overridable, in the third case it gets more tricky

user

18:53

It's going to be executed as a subprocess so I can just set its stdin, I think

Rydwolf Programs

Ooh I may have just massively optimized a function I wrote

Using the coolest thing

The Stern-Brocot Tree

This relates to MIS, my new esolang

Unrelated String

nice

Rydwolf Programs

Uh oh I thought this was going to be easy and now I'm reading a paper in a scientific journal :|

l4m2

Why can't I post in sandbox?

Rydwolf Programs

What's the error it's giving you?

l4m2

19:08

It says succeed and refresh page but thing just don't appear

0

A: Secret Santa's Sandbox

PHPFuck Golf - Hello World Like this Asked here because sandbox is broken

Rydwolf Programs

19:32

Anyone else see this

or is it truly bork

Maybe the sandbox just hit some sort of max data usage thing buried deep in the SE database :p

Ginger

I think it's bork

emanresu A

I can see that answer

Ginger

quick, to the Tavern! :p

Rydwolf Programs

I can't delete it

Ginger

I can see it

l4m2

19:35

I can see

emanresu A

Can you see my comment?

Rydwolf Programs

Can you flag it? I can't

l4m2

then New Sandbox is dead?

emanresu A

I delete voted it

Rydwolf Programs

I can see there is a comment

It does not load

l4m2

19:36

flagged

Rydwolf Programs

My inbox will also not open

I think SE's just being weird

emanresu A

Probably just a bug on your end

Rydwolf Programs

Yeah but if it won't work for I4m2 either...

l4m2

But I can post on another sandbox

Rydwolf Programs

And it's only in the sandbox that my inbox doesn't open

emanresu A

19:38

It's possible that SE has a limited data packet size and you just went over that

Rydwolf Programs

Also NPSP didn't pick it up

More weirdness

Ooh spicy:

Failed Units: 1
  npsp.service

thread 'tokio-runtime-worker' panicked at 'called `Result::unwrap()` on an `Err` value: Protocol(HandshakeIncomplete)', src/chat.rs:322:124

l4m2

I can edit it, can't delete should because of low rep

I can now post

New Sandbox is dead?

or also fault of sandbox?

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Test (sorry) I'll put an actual post here at some point™

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

PHPFuck Golf - Hello World Like this PHPFuck is an esoteric language in which any PHP statement can be accurately reproduced into another valid PHP program that uses only the 5 characters (^.9). The PHPFuck converter, when given an input of echo "Hello World!", produces a block of code that is 7...

-2

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

l4m2

owo

Ginger

TIL I Learned that bright_black is a valid terminal color (it just looks like light gray)

l4m2

19:42

first time @SandboxPosts with post with a score?

user

What happened here?

Rydwolf Programs

Weird sandbox bugginess

Ginger

@SandboxPosts me when

Rydwolf Programs

Anyone else see no content for that post

user

Yes

l4m2

19:43

It has no content

emanresu A

l4m2 emtied it

Rydwolf Programs

Oh nvm

Adám

@Ginger iirc, that's dark gray, with non-bright white being light gray.

Ginger

bruh

calling dark gray "bright black" sounds like something you'd hear in France

Adám

Hey, I lived back in those days.

Ginger

19:52

good to know you weren't suddenly raised from the grave to work at Dyalog :b

Rydwolf Programs

@Ginger There's a good reason

Adám

I believe my father bought his first VGA screen (640×480, 256 colours) when I was 2.

Rydwolf Programs

The way terminal colors work is there's 8 colors, with a bright and dark variant of each

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms the same way there's a "good reason" for PHP?

@RydwolfPrograms I know that lol

Rydwolf Programs

Well "bright black" makes perfect sense in that context

Since 0 or 7 or whichever code it is is supposed to be black, and the leading 1-bit indicates brightness

Ginger

19:56

ugggh I hate regex

user

@Adám Are you not living these days?

Adám

My newborn makes me feel rather dead from lack of sleep.

user

:(

l4m2

20:39

https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/257032/76323
Why weird color, what does it think `E'` mean?

mathcat

Challenge idea: Given a finite number for points (x, y), return a line mx+b that groups all of them on one side

Not my type of challenge, but what do yuo think?

Adám

0x+min(y)

mathcat

seriously?

anyways

user

Maybe change the challenge to split them into two groups?

@l4m2 Syntax highlighters outside of proper editors usually aren't great and pretty easily fooled

Adám

Given an even number of points (x, y), return a line mx+b that groups half of them on one side and half on the other. You can assume such a line exists.

mathcat

20:48

good point

Adám

I wouldn't even know where to begin.

user

In the middle

Adám

If you want it even harder, leave out "even" and require the line to intersect exactly one point if odd number of points.

user

tbh you might be able to use @Adám's approach but find the middle y instead of the minimum

l4m2

Adám

20:49

There might be two with the same y

l4m2

gedit shows fine

mathcat

@user lmao burn

nice idea, could I post it to the sandbox?

Adám

ofc

caird coinheringaahing

Eww, Wikipedia changed their UI

Adám

Ginger

20:55

you can change it back?!

THANK YOU

Adám

After landing at La Florida Airport in Colombia, we didn't remember where we came from.

user

@Adám Am I the only one who finds the term "skin" for this sort of stuff uncomfortable? You can change your clothes, but changing your skin just conjures up gross images

Ginger

~~take off your skin~~

Rydwolf Programs

Not one but two MCR songs include a lyric about "taking off your skin" so get disproven nerd

user

Emos talking about taking off their skin only proves my point

Rydwolf Programs

21:10

Ooh I haven't listened to My Way Home Is Through You in over three days time to listen to it again

Adám

I am a normal human that never sheds its skin.

user

Really? I think it's pretty normal for our skin to die a little and come off

If your skin cells never die, I think you may not be so normal after all

Ginger

he's got thick skin :b

Rydwolf Programs

So I do take off all my skin, just very slowly :p

And changing your skin does make sense

user

It's a Ship of Theseus sort of problem - most people wouldn't consider it to be a new skin

Jacob

21:45

@lyxal so many extra rules lol, maybe for another challenge?

@lyxal thanks for this

Seggan

@cairdcoinheringaahing seeing you are listed in the users, mind unfreezing Fig?

caird coinheringaahing

status-completed

Seggan

in Fig, 15 secs ago, by Seggan

ty

~~when you dont feel like crossposting~~

Ginger

22:05

Fun fact: Every year for the last 4 years @lyxal has edited this question at exactly midnight to update the year count

lyxal

22:17

I was wondering when someone would notice :p

Rydwolf Programs

23:16

LDQ: fn xyz(id: string, count: int) or fn xyz(string id, int count)?

lyxal

colons

Rydwolf Programs

Do any languages have unit tests built into the syntax for a function?

Or any other compile-time test/assertion syntax that's not super clunky

I'm thinking something like this will be in the practical lang I might make someday:

user

I'm not sure it's a good idea to have unit tests right at the definition of a function

Rydwolf Programs

Why?

user

It clutters up the code

lyxal

23:27

^

Rydwolf Programs

I never write tests, even in languages that're compiled and statically typed, just since it's such a pain

user

It works for a simple function like that one but it'll get very long for more complex functions that require other inputs

Rydwolf Programs

@user And all the stupid JS comment type annotations and stuff don't?

Functions are already super cluttered

user

It's a bit hard to remove them from there

Rydwolf Programs

We're used to it

We might as well use the clutter to throw in some important tests

user

23:28

Yes, but unit tests would clutter it even worse than it already is

Rydwolf Programs

There'd be the option to put them somewhere else

user

Most functions aren't that simple

You need to set stuff up, maybe clean up afterwards. Most of my unit tests, even basic ones, take up multiple lines

Rydwolf Programs

But for simple functions, or as a temporary thing, having this as an option seems nice

user

I'm sure you could write a macro for that in a Lisp

lyxal

@RydwolfPrograms the hell kinda tests are you writing then? When I've written tests for things, it's always been a matter of just place it in a test case file and have the framework handle it from there

user

23:29

But it's probably not a common enough thing for a language to integrate unit tests into its syntax

Rydwolf Programs

@lyxal Framework?

lyxal

yeah, testing frameworks

user

Like jest

lyxal

and pytest

or that thing we use for scala

Rydwolf Programs

Ah, I just use Rust's built in mod tests;/#[test] thing

Maybe other langs make it less painful?

user

23:31

Well it's pretty similar in other languages too

Rydwolf Programs

But I know Rust makes it horrendously annoying to write simple tests, e.g., having to name them (?!)

lyxal

@RydwolfPrograms here's how python test cases might look

user

Rust's approach does make it so you can't really nest test cases or group multiple tests in a single function

lyxal

and this is how scala test cases might look

I say might because people use different formats

Rydwolf Programs

Yeah, not a huge fan of either of those

Scala one looks better but still

user

23:32

The Scala one is a work in progress

We're working on adding a thing to avoid the repetition

Pytest and Junit are pretty similar to the Rust style you dislike

But tbh I don't find anything wrong with them

Naming tests isn't a huge deal

Rydwolf Programs

IMO it should just be pairs of inputs and outputs, preferably with a cartesian product operator

user

You might like Jest's way, you have to write a description but not a name

Rydwolf Programs

Ew worse

user

Eh, not all tests work like that

Property testing won't work with that I think

Rydwolf Programs

E.g., if I want to write unit tests for a function that adds numbers, I'd rather jump off a cliff than explain "well this test makes sure 1+2 equals 3 :3" for every one

user

23:35

I mean, you can make a helper function for that

Rydwolf Programs

@user What's that?

user

If you make a test_countBs function, you could just do test_countBs("", 0); test_countBs("b", 1); ...

lyxal

@RydwolfPrograms well you see the thing is that you wouldn't be writing trivial cases like 1+2, you'd more want to be creating tests for edge cases like NaN + -inf

user

@RydwolfPrograms scalatest.org/user_guide/property_based_testing

You have a condition to meet instead of just checking if something equals another thing

lyxal

@lyxal conglomerate the trivial tests into one trivial test check and then describe all the non-trivial cases

Rydwolf Programs

23:36

@lyxal Sure, but I still need tons of boring tests, with pretty straightforward and visually clear purposes

Ones where it's less clear should 100% be comments

That's literally what comments are for

user

@user Your test_countBs function would automatically create a description based on the input and output

Rydwolf Programs

The description isn't going to be too useful then is it?

user

When the test fails, it's nice to have a description of which test failed in the logs

Rydwolf Programs

If it's literally just made by a bot

user

Yeah, which is why you should write it yourself

Rydwolf Programs

23:37

@user You'll already be looking at the (commented) code, all you need is a line number

user

"Check if it works with negative numbers" or something like that

@RydwolfPrograms Sure

Rydwolf Programs

I mean maybe the 200ms to think before alt-tabbing helps your productivity but I can't imagine it's that important

@user So like, asserting that some condition is true for a bunch of inputs?

Yeah, I can see that being useful I guess

Worth noting there's advantages of -> tho

Jacob

unit tests are the worst

Rydwolf Programs

For example, you could get away with breaking some of the rules of the language for simplicity. Like, identity([0, [1, 2]]) -> [0, [1, 2]] could work even if your language doesn't support deep == on lists

(do modern languages do that? can't remember if Rust does)

Oh it seems it does

lyxal

@Jacob they're good for making sure that you haven't broken other things while fixing something

Jacob

23:47

i dont mean that they aren't useful sometimes, just that they're the worst

user

Yeah, tests and documentation are the worst

Writing code is the worst

2

Rydwolf Programs

JS sucks at GC :|

I'm not using the result of some function calls but it's still using up 2 GB of ram instantly

Jacob

?

lyxal

@RydwolfPrograms not true... I see people use js all the time for golf code :p

Jacob

what do you mean GC

user

23:49

Garbage Collection

Rydwolf Programs

Garbage collection

Jacob

ah got it

Rydwolf Programs

Okay it seems that some bigints aren't being freed properly?

Jacob

the one thing everyone can agree on: nobody likes javascript

Rydwolf Programs

Oh wait I just figured out what the issue is and it's not JS being bad

It's that this is a fuzzer for an esolang and it keeps designing programs that require petabytes of RAM :p

lyxal

23:53

That'll definitely do it

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