The Nineteenth Byte

DialFrost

00:01

Np*

Goddamn small phone keyboard

DLosc

LOL

Jo King

00:16

@DLosc i mentioned this yesterday, but prolog already does this, except it doesn't have <=

and i've never seen => actually used anywhere

Seggan

rust uses =>

Unrelated String

@JoKing it doesn't look like => exists by default either; they probably just want it to be available for use

Jo King

> SWI-Prolog as of version 8.3.19 support =>/2 as an alternative to normal Prolog clauses

basically the same as :- but it errors if no clause matches

DialFrost

00:36

Guys how come on mobile I cant use web DC

Unrelated String

ah, nice

i'm on 8.0.2 lmao

Steffan

00:52

@DialFrost I thought you coined it lol

@JoKing that could actually be useful in golfing to exit on error

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Perceptron

DialFrost

01:26

@Steffan ?

Jo King

@Steffan i thought so too, but i can't think of too many situations you could use it in

maybe with a list like +[A|B]=> +B to prevent backtracking

Ginger

02:00

eyyyyyy

klein just successfully communicated with a language server for the first time!

granted it responded with an error but it's progress :p

Unrelated String

nice

Ginger

ok there we go

klein told the server to start and it actually responded! it's like prom night but with bdsm

...I regret that analogy

caird coinheringaahing

02:23

Klein, as in the topological 2d lang?

Ginger

@cairdcoinheringaahing Klein, as in the IDE project I've been working on for the past month

caird coinheringaahing

Oh cool

Aiden Chow

@Ginger tf???

Seggan

02:47

really cursed idea: have lexing, parsing, typechecking, resolution, and compilation happen all at the same time

Bubbler

... compilation doesn't work like that

Seggan

ik but in a streaming manner, and assuming no code depends on stuff after it

which is really cursed

Bubbler

though you can do lexing and parsing in one step (sometimes called larsing)

and maybe typecheck and codegen in small enough units

Seggan

also, ima be gone until like sunday or monday, please direct all complaints to P.O. Box 8310110310397110

@Bubbler yeah thats what i meant

once it has enough info, it executes that bit

@Bubbler thats new information

Aiden Chow

final feedback before i post? codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/…

Jo King

02:58

seems very complex

Aiden Chow

@JoKing is that bad or good

Steffan

03:41

i bet ajax will answer in a few minutes and then no one else will follow until somebody does it in apl 5 months later

Aiden Chow

@Steffan bro smth kinda similar to that happened to one of my other challenges, no one answers it for months, then ajax comes in with like a 900 bytes python answer out of nowhere

Steffan

i think it was over 1000 bytes lmao

or maybe it will be the opposite, but lyxal posts a 30-byte vyxal solution that will terminate in approximately 35 trillion years

Aiden Chow

@Steffan lmfaooooo

New Posts

0

Q: Is it a legal atomic chess move?

Background and Rules There is a variant of chess called atomic chess, which follows essentially the same rules as normal chess, except that pieces explodes other pieces around them when captured. In addition to checkmate, you can also win the game by blowing up the king. When a piece captures an...

lyxal

04:03

@Steffan times out for anything larger than a 2x2 chessboard :p

Steffan

1x1 chessboard*

Aiden Chow

wait hmmm, should i make it so there are different sized boards? i just assumed it would be 8 by 8

lyxal

@AidenChow No, it's just a reference to an answer I once wrote that timed out for matrices larger than a 2x2 despite the fact that it's easy to make an efficient algorithm that works for much larger matrices (which would have been longer)

DialFrost

05:11

anyone know a CGCC challenge that involves number->word? e.g. 9->nine

Bubbler

A simple one seems to be codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/12766/78410

DialFrost

ah tysm

Radvylf Programs

@Seggan rMf...are you tryna delete all my files? :p

graffe

06:44

CMC given a positive integer x, output the number of factors of x excluding x and 1

Aiden Chow

@graffe Desmos, 30 bytes: f(k)=∑_{n=3}^k0^{mod(k,n-1)}

graffe

@AidenChow is there an executable link?

What do you get for 2014?

lyxal

@graffe vyxal, KḢṪ

Try it Online!

No wait

KL⇩

DialFrost

@lyxal hv u asked anyone on git to help ya on the docker?

lyxal

@graffe Try it Online!

graffe

06:55

@lyxal very nice!

lyxal

@DialFrost been too busy to do so

DialFrost

@lyxal ohok

graffe

@lyxal how do you compute it?

DialFrost

@Steffan wanna help lyxal out? lol

lyxal

@graffe length of the list of factors of the input minus 2

Aiden Chow

07:18

@graffe Try It On Desmos!

if my code is correct, 2014 should return 6

Jo King

@lyxal does this work for 1?

graffe

07:37

@AidenChow that is correct!

@lyxal how do you get the list of factors?

@AidenChow do you have 0^0= 0 or 1?

Aiden Chow

@graffe 0^0=1 in desmos, im taking advantage of that fact to only count the factors

graffe

@AidenChow interesting trick!

Aiden Chow

yep, its pretty standard in desmos golfing actually

in many cases its golfier to use this instead of regular piecewise expressions

graffe

A well known fact by little known people :)

lyxal

07:54

@graffe K

Aiden Chow

@graffe lmao

it also uses the fact that in desmos, if the upper summation bound is lower than the lower bound, then the summation defaults to 0, which helps deal with 1

Unrelated String

neat

Jo King

08:15

@lyxal 1 returns -1 rip

UndoneStudios

09:24

hi

DialFrost

09:35

sup

lyxal

09:50

Y'all ever just realise that there are so many parser types out there that it's not funny?

I do

UndoneStudios

Well now that you mention it, I do.

lyxal

@Bubbler turns out this is actually pretty easy to accomplish

You just muck around with the contents to get an appropriate commit hash

westling.dev/b/extremely-linear-git

PyGamer0

11:36

nobody told me there was a new (released in 2019 lol i am late) arduino ide

Goku

11:59

Is LeetCode fun? I'm thinking of doing those challenges

mousetail

As long as you don't do it "competetively"

Goku

No I just want to do it because I find problem solving fun

I should probably start getting a good grasp of data structures and algorithms right?

mousetail

I'd not recomend it as a way to learn data strucutres and algorithms, though knowledge of them will help you do better

Goku

I meant I should start by gaining a strong understanding of DSA prior to getting into LeetCode, right?

lyxal

12:53

→ 29 (come and vote on the site proposal please)s moved to Programming Language Design

Hello, World!

13:17

0

A: "Hello, World!"

Functional(), 139 bytes 0,1,=,:,$,&,<,>,$(W,& a(>(a(:(Z,&()(W()0)))),W))0 Z Z()1()1 W()W()>()W()>()> >()>()W()1()0()0()Z W 1()1()1()> >()> Z W 1()W()>()Z W()1()0 Z Try it online!

Sandbox Posts

14:38

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Print the most uncommon character code-golf self-referential Your task is to write a full program that prints the character(s)* that appears in your code the least. For example, if my code was AAAABBBBCCCDDD, then the program should print CD or DC. Rules All printed characters* must appear at le...

Steffan

14:54

@DialFrost I keep telling you, I can easily make a Docker image, but I can't do the SBCS.

Ginger

15:42

Happy Thanksgiving!

mousetail

15:53

Are there any languages that use SBCS but the SBCS is actually just latin-1

Radvylf Programs

I guarantee you one of those ISO-xyz or CPxyz character sets is that

So probably

mousetail

Latin-1 is ISO 8859-1 and CP1252

Ginger

16:42

okay so why tf is Macy's making an NFT OF THE PARADE

I just can't handle it man

mousetail

It's free money, of course they are doing it

Radvylf Programs

@Ginger From the looks of it it's a bunch of NFT related things, not just "an NFT of the parade"

I guess they didn't get the memo that NFTs stopped being popular six months ago

Ginger

@RadvylfPrograms that's not really an improvement :/

(I didn't know that because my Pi just flatly refused to load the page)

mousetail

Yea that page's performance is absolutly the worst I've seen

Radvylf Programs

It works fine for me but still feels very gross due to their usage of all sorts of weird animation and CSS tricks

Like the background scrolling slower than the content in a really disorienting way

Ginger

16:52

that's a pet peeve of mine: websites that scroll weirdly

Radvylf Programs

Feb 1, 2021 at 20:30, by Redwolf Programs

Anyone else hate websites that override how scrolling works?

Ginger

here's one of the more egregious offenders

Radvylf Programs

Gigabyte makes their motherboard info pages scroll one page at a time and it's so annoying

Like, scrolling is built-in to browsers for a reason. It's an established mental model and it needs to be performant. Just because you are able to override it does not mean that your preferred handling of scrolling is automatically better than the one everyone else in the world is already used to.

@Ginger Oh it's the same thing Gigabyte does

Except that Gigabyte has a header covering up part of the content too

Ginger

the only exception to that rule is overriding the scrollbar, just the scrollbar, to fit better with your site's theme

Radvylf Programs

So you literally cannot scroll to see it, since it'll scroll a while page

Ginger

16:55

and even then you gotta do it right

Radvylf Programs

@Ginger Nah, I disagree

I'm on Chrome OS where scrollbars are invisible and don't show up in the first place, and when a site adds one in, it just looks ugly

Ginger

~~well that's just, like, your opinion maaan~~

Radvylf Programs

And on Windows/other OSs with scrollbars, they tend to be pretty non-offensive in how they look

Ginger

firefox does scrollbars right IMO

Radvylf Programs

I do gotta say though, I'm really spoiled by Chrome OS's lack of a physical scrollbar, a lot of my projects involving HTML probably look terrible on devices with them

Since I completely forget scrollbars exist 99.9% of the time

Adám

17:08

@Ginger Yes, and even lets you change their colour.

Steffan

@mousetail 05ab1e used to use CP1252 but now they have a custom one

mousetail

17:35

@Steffan Is it still based on CP1252 or is it totally different?

Steffan

18:03

Still based on it

New Posts

0

Q: Base Neutral Numbering System

It frustrates me that when you say "base 16", the 16 is in base 10. We need a base neutral way of writing down numbers when favoring a specific base would be inappropriate. How it works We define <n> to be the nth prime. So <1>=2, <2>=3, <3>=5. Note that every positive integer can be uniquely rep...

code-golf primes

Radvylf Programs

19:56

LDQ: How useful would a "not" quantifier be in regular expressions? It would match any string the same length as what's being NOT'd, but which does not match it. E.g., 1([a-z]{2})! would match 123, 1a8, or 12c, but not 1ab or 1 or 1000

Part of why I'm considering this is that, for complicated reasons, I can't use \D/\W/\S for the inverted versions of \d/\w/\s in my regexlike, and for similar reasons character classes with [] can't use the ^ syntax to invert them

Adám

Don't you need to be able to restrict the not to a sub-part of the entire regex?

So something like (!pattern)

Radvylf Programs

It'd work like */+/?

Adám

Ah.

Radvylf Programs

So you'd do (pattern)!

Adám

Now I'm wondering why PCRE doesn't have this.

Radvylf Programs

20:01

One issue would be that I think anything with a */+ in it that's NOT'd would just match the whole string a lot of the time

Unrelated String

yeah

i think for more complex cases you'd just want to still use negative lookahead

but for fixed length matches you really would think there'd be a match-not

Radvylf Programs

Possible solution: using Adám's proposed syntax of (!pattern), and making it so that you can put a string in between the ( and ! that the NOT'd part must match

E.g., (\w+!daniel) matches any \w+ that isn't daniel

Unrelated String

ooh

that would be nice and expressive

Radvylf Programs

it would mean there's no way of saying "an empty string that's not [some thing]" but that's totally useless anyway

And (! would just turn into (.*! (assuming . can be a newline)

Adám

So it'd be like | but instead of meaning OR it means BUT NOT.

Radvylf Programs

20:07

@RadvylfPrograms Or possibly it'd be smarter than that and do the match-the-right-length thing, so (!abc) would be a shorthand for (.{3}!abc)

Adám

That's less flexible, and what would (!abc?) mean? (.{2,3}!abc?)?

Radvylf Programs

Yeah

Adám

I like the BUT NOT one. Nicely complements |

Radvylf Programs

@RadvylfPrograms You'd still be able to do the (is!is not) thing, but leaving is blank would default to something more convenient

Adám

Ah.

But still. (|abc) means "nothing or abc"

Radvylf Programs

20:11

@Adám I wonder if allowing chaining like with | would be useful at all...it would allow for an AND operator (![]!), which is pretty useless but kind of cool

@Adám Yeah, special casing the empty string feels kind of wrong, but at the same time, "empty string that is not [thing]" is never going to be meaningful anyway since the empty string is only ever one thing

emanresu A

Would ! have higher or lower precedence than |?

Radvylf Programs

Probably looser

Adám

Btw, instead of grabbing a character which is normally inert in regex, how about (this|?not that) or something? afact, that's a syntax error.

Radvylf Programs

Since !thing|other thing would probably be pretty common

@Adám I think it's worth it for the readability. This is a superset of regex in a lot of ways anyway, so I'm already making a lot of changes to what characters are and aren't inert

Adám

ok, but for your upcoming proposal on PCRE…

Radvylf Programs

20:18

@RadvylfPrograms Okay so this would depend on if it's left- or right-associative

If it's left-associative, any additional !s after the first are identical to |s

x!y!z is "x that isn't y or z"

Whereas with right-associative you get something more interesting

So x!!y would mean "x that isn't anything that isn't y", which is exactly "x that is y" or "x and y"

Could maybe be useful for intersections of classes

It's ASCII-only for now, but if I added Unicode support and, e.g., \s included non-ASCII whitespace, you could maybe have a use for \s!![\x00-\x7f]

emanresu A

It'd be nice to have a regex operator that's "these in any order"

Adám

Having the same substring match two patterns is really cool.

Radvylf Programs

@emanresuA Would be cool if you could apply regex-y quantifiers to them too

Unrelated String

@emanresuA incidentally that's another good thing to use ! as a character for :P

Radvylf Programs

E.g., if (1)+ and 2? were the two "these"s, it would mean "any nonzero number of 1s with a 2 possibly somewhere in the mix"

The syntax would probably be definitively un-regex if that was allowed tho

Adám

20:24

So 1+2?1*|1*2?1+?

Radvylf Programs

Yeah. But with more than two or three things, it gets annoying to write out explicitly really quickly

Adám

For actual PCRE extension, |? could be BUT NOT and |+ could be AND IN ANY ORDER.

Radvylf Programs

So that leaves the question, what would |* be

Adám

So the above would be 1+|+2?|+1*

Ginger

@RadvylfPrograms BUT YES

Adám

20:27

@RadvylfPrograms Yeah, I've hit that multiple times trying to match numeric literals like 1.5 and 1. and .5

Radvylf Programs

I ran into something similar trying to write a regex for {} quantifiers. Any of {n}, {,n}, {n,}, or {n,n}

Adám

Right, all such ones.

Radvylf Programs

\d+|+,|+\d+

emanresu A

@RadvylfPrograms Are you... parsing regex with regex?

Radvylf Programs

Yes why not

Adám

20:29

The number problem is actually pretty awful, trying to match ¯1.2e¯3j¯4.5e¯6

@emanresuA Of course, the obvious choice. I do it all the time!

regular expressions are regular, after all, so no worries there.

(yes, I know regexes aren't regular, but neither are regexes, so no worries there.)

5

Ginger

@emanresuA and the parsed regex is for parsing html

Radvylf Programs

! might actually be really neat in something like Regenerate

emanresu A

@DLosc You might be interested in this conversation

Adám

@Ginger A̵͕͛w̸͔̏ę̷͐s̶͎̾o̷̙̿m̴͇̄e̵̞̍!̸̨̐

graffe

How can I store python floats in a file using only 64 bits per number?

Radvylf Programs

20:45

Represent it as a byte string

20

Q: Converting a float to bytearray

So, what I am trying to do is convert a float to a bytearray but I keep on receiving both no input, and EXTREME slowing/freezing of my computer. My code is import struct def float_to_hex(f): return hex(struct.unpack('<I', struct.pack('<f', f))[0]) value = 5.1 #example value ... value = byt...

python python-3.x

That struct.pack method probably even works with collections of floats, saving you some work

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms interesting. Maybe storing a numpy array would work too?

Ginger

21:03

UX question: where should I put things like find, replace, etc in Klein? in order for them to be in the menu strip like in most IDEs the menu strip would have to be able to change depending on which workspace is selected and I don't like that idea very much

because those operations are workspace-specific

perhaps I could put them in a dedicated "Workspace" menu in the menu strip...

Radvylf Programs

You could have a bottom/top bar specifically for find/replace like Atom does

(which by default only pops up when you're actually doing that, ofc)

Ginger

so like you highlight some text and the bar appears?

Radvylf Programs

No like, you hit Ctrl+F and/or use some menu to bring it up

Ginger

but where does "some menu" go is the question

Radvylf Programs

Does Klein have like, the old fashioned file/edit/project/... menus at the top?

That's where I'd put it if you do

Ginger

21:07

it does, but I don't want to put it there because:

> in order for them to be in the menu strip like in most IDEs the menu strip would have to be able to change depending on which workspace is selected and I don't like that idea very much

> because those operations are workspace-specific

Radvylf Programs

Wait why would the menu strip need to change

Find/replace would work in any file right?

The actual text boxes wouldn't be in the menu

Ginger

but it's not just files! klein supports other workspaces

what's the point of having "find/replace" in the Welcome workspace?

Radvylf Programs

Well I would hope your menus change and/or disable some things for non-text workspaces

Otherwise they're basically useless

Since things which apply to both text and a welcome menu are few and far between

E.g., you can't have save as in the menu any more

Since you can't save welcome

Ginger

but that would require special coding for non-text workspaces and I don't like that

Radvylf Programs

You already need that

Ginger

21:09

not currently

Radvylf Programs

Your menus cannot be exactly the same for totally different types of content, if they are, you probably don't need them

Ginger

wait, you're right

ok fair enough, klein won't have a menu strip then

Radvylf Programs

Wait what no that's not what...

Ginger

but I don't like that either

:/

Radvylf Programs

Just do what literally every other app that exists does and disable text-specific options in non-text contexts

And/or change what menus are visible

Ginger

21:11

fine, but I'm going to sulk while implementing it

Radvylf Programs

The whole point of having them broken down into file/edit/view/... is that you can just remove the edit one for non-editable stuff

Will you have workspaces other than welcome and text? E.g., photo editing? If so, you're really going to want the ability to add more menus for those modes

Ginger

yeah that makes sense

thanks for help!

Radvylf Programs

I haven't seen a screenshot in a while, how's Klein going as a whole?

Ginger

good question!

I'm working on the main editor body right now

been having some... issues with poetry and stuff but it's going alright

sadly I don't have very much interesting stuff to show you because most of my work has been internal

but I'll get you some ASAP

in the meantime here's a screenshot of the new project dialog:

Nov 19 at 22:31, by Ginger

Radvylf Programs

Nice. Maybe "version" should default to something though

Since most people don't open up a new file and start on version 3.8.1 :p

Ginger

21:16

good idea

Radvylf Programs

I'd go with either 0.0.0 or 0.1.0 or 1.0.0

Ginger

how about 0.1.0, it's what I usually use

Radvylf Programs

sure, I think that's what Rust defaults to as well

Radvylf Programs

21:53

Ginger

22:21

me and the [Person]s waiting for poetry to finish whatever the hell it's doing

okay so

for some reason

whenever Klein invokes poetry via subprocess, it acts as though the virtualenvs.options.system-site-packages option is always true, ignoring the actual config settings

it's supposed to be true for Klein only

and running poetry config --list from Klein shows that it's false???

wtf

aha

I gotcha now you little [$!$$]

forest

23:37

@RadvylfPrograms Screw WASM.

Bubbler

23:49

Actually wasm is creeping into some non-browser territories, e.g. docker

forest

Jesus christ.

DialFrost

anyone have hints to reduce this pseudo code?

while n%d<1
  n=n/d
  s+=sum(digits of d)

Jo King

n/=d

DialFrost

@JoKing apart from that :3 this is elongated psuedo code

i thought there would be a way to put this in a comprehension since i wont be using the var n later in the code

Bubbler

"count how many times n is divisible by d, and multiply that by the sum of digits of d" is an alternative

DialFrost

23:56

ye but how to do the first part, is what i've been wondering for a while now :(

oh wait

Bubbler

sum(digits of d)*sum([n%d**i==0 for i in range(1,99)])

cursed

DialFrost

@Bubbler huh??/

whats the range for

Bubbler

"count how many times n is divisible by d"

without an actual counter

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