The Nineteenth Byte

Sʨɠɠan

00:25

@emanresuA no? i used bubblers query

which entails combining querys

emanresu A

Ah okay

lyxal

00:53

So that's how Fig beat vyxal!

6

By forming an alliance with jelly!

Sʨɠɠan

mwahahaha

lyxal

Pistachio and Almond?

Never heard of those golfing languages

Unrelated String

not yet you haven't

Sʨɠɠan

01:31

@lyxal now i know what to name my next language :P

lyxal

I won't be able to shop without maniacally thinking of code golf ever again D:

Bubbler

Someone posted a mathematica builtin but google doesn't know a shit about it

Sʨɠɠan

01:50

@lyxal im telling ya, im literally beginning to think in binary and a mishmash of programming languages now

caird coinheringaahing

@Bubbler There's this, but that isn't the builtin

Bubbler

yeah found that too

Sʨɠɠan

CMP: whats your favorite thing about your least favorite programming language?

mine would be the list comprehensions of python

generators are nice too

i havent seen either of those in any other lang

Bubbler

02:13

@Sʨɠɠan haskell has list comprehension too

Sʨɠɠan

02:29

ooh, nice

Radvylf Programs

02:55

@Sʨɠɠan I like how PHP makes back-end web development accessible

I would argue too accessible given how easy it makes it to write critical security flaws, but oh well :p

With Node.js and stuff, instead of the like, environment built around CGI that PHP has, you need to make an HTTP server for everything and do reverse proxying, which is a pain for a number of reasons

I'm not sure if CGI's just considered a flawed concept, or if it's just not popular anymore, or if it is and I'm not in on the fun, but it sure makes things easy

So annoying having to 1. make sure your Node script is always running, 2. make sure you use a unique port for every project you every make, 3. deal with implementing an HTTP server every time

(Since Node's http is a little annoyingly low level, while the alternatives like express are kinda too high level for simple projects)

Bubbler

03:25

express was perfectly fine to me when I wrote my very first toy server

Jo King

05:34

wait, the lyal yesterday was prolog? wasn't it the lotm just last month?

emanresu A

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

DialFrost

05:59

is there a way to intialize a string in C with an even no. of chars?

E.g. ""hi""

"hi" isnt valid

emanresu A

Ofc not

DialFrost

@emanresuA aww

btw what the hell is python (pypy) XD

emanresu A

pypy is python but fast

DialFrost

@emanresuA thats it?

emanresu A

probably

DialFrost

06:05

lmao

what's python (stackless)

emanresu A

github.com/stackless-dev/stackless/wiki

DialFrost

damn that looks cool

Adám

@Bubbler Amazingly, DDG has a clue.

@Sʨɠɠan DOM integration of JS.

mousetail

07:01

cPython is singificantly faster in 3.11 so the use case for pypy is singificantly reduces. It's extra speed was always very situational and is even more situational now

emanresu A

07:13

"significantly"

25%

mousetail

Like I've said before spelling is my weakness

emanresu A

I didn't even notice that

My point is that 5 > 1.25

mousetail

Oh you mean the Pypy 5x benchmark

It's very situational

Adám

07:40

CMP: Acceptable text-form RSS icon? .₎)

mousetail

That looks terrible but it might be the best you can do

Adám

Why is 📶/📶︎ the best Unicode has to offer?

emanresu A

07:58

Could always use a tiny icon

mousetail

There is this: ͒

emanresu A

Coul dstack more diacritics on top

mousetail

That character is already a diacritic so adding more doesn't align properly

Unrelated String

@Adám i can't even tell what those are supposed to depict

mousetail

Best ̶͜͝ hmm this doesn't really work either

Bubbler

08:09

That symbol was used to indicate cell phone signal like, 20 years ago

Unrelated String

i know the bars but what about the funnel thing on top

mousetail

@Bubbler My phone still shows bars though they are more stylized

Bubbler

some sort of antenna symbol I guess

Unrelated String

ah

mousetail

Are there any 2d programing languages that don't use a grid?

emanresu A

08:16

Hexagony

mousetail

Hexagony uses a hex grid right?

emanresu A

Does that count?

Unrelated String

i doubt there are strictly non-grid 2d languages

emanresu A

^

Unrelated String

because that would be hard to meaningfully do

emanresu A

08:17

ais has probably theorised one though

Unrelated String

unless you have like arbitrary angles and make something with that some way or another

mousetail

I was thinking of a refraction based language

Unrelated String

yeah lmao

emanresu A

Seems like the sort of thing they'd do

Bubbler

I once tried to define a language that is made of 2d geometric objects

sequential flow is a straight line, loop is a circle

mousetail

08:18

So you would create squares of different IORs and it would refract the instruction pointer depending on it's color

emanresu A

@UnrelatedString Ais did have something like that. I don't remember the name but it had "beacons" and "nets"

Bubbler

conditional branch is done at intersections

Unrelated String

mmm

mousetail

@Bubbler Cool sounds interesting

emanresu A

There's Trajedy which, while grid-based, is non-orthogonal

Bubbler

08:19

I don't know how to actually place instructions on the shapes though

emanresu A

Flowchart-based language?

Bubbler

it would be funny to have a program not work because of floating-point inaccuracy around the shapes

emanresu A

Because this sounds sorta like it...

mousetail

@emanresuA Yea that's what I was looking for, thanks

emanresu A

Also But, Is It Art? which doesn't have movement at all

Unrelated String

08:21

@Bubbler my thoughts exactly :P

mousetail

@Bubbler One could perhaps use rationals to avoid errors

Bubbler

If you have circles in the mix, you have no escape

though an alternative design would be to just use lines and form loops with carefully laid out triangles

emanresu A

Could use svgs

Bubbler

Funciton may count as 2d and without grid

emanresu A

Agreed

Bubbler

08:25

and pretty close to flowchart-based

emanresu A

08:51

Gotta love how duckduckgo considers sstatic.net a tracker

Sandbox Posts

09:09

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Power sequence differences code-golf sequence math number Your task Given the inputs \$x\$ and \$d\$, output the first 5 terms of the \$d\$th difference of the sequence \$n^x\$ Example Let's say we are given the inputs \$x=4\$ and \$d=2\$. First, we get the series \$n^4\$: \$0^4 = 0\$ \$1^4 = 1\...

DialFrost

10:05

I've been trying to beat this for about 1 week now :P

Anyone think it's even possible to beat?

getting hopeless :/

mousetail

10:35

why won't a/1/b work?

oh nvm

DialFrost

lol

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

To Unicode Code Point Notation code-golf Given a non-negative integer up to 1,114,111 in decimal (inclusive), convert to a string to indicate that Unicode code point. Algorithm Convert input to hexadecimal using UPPERCASE alphanumerical characters. If result of step 1 has 3 or fewer letters, pad...

DialFrost

10:54

damnnnnnn that jump from 257 bytes to 12k bytes

emanresu A

The others are probably hardcoding

mousetail

^

emanresu A

Although 257 is quite impressive for this, due to needing two-bit integers and integer output. The printing section's probably about 90 bytes

Adám

Anyone has an SVG RSS icon that doesn't require attribution?

emanresu A

There's the xml logo (I think)

Adám

10:57

?

mousetail

You can probably easily hand draw it

emanresu A

True

mousetail

It's kinda funny that Adam has been trying to find a simple icon for hours. Development is like that sometimes

DialFrost

@emanresuA extremely impressive

@emanresuA wdym

Adám

yeah, search engines are being not helpful.

DialFrost

11:12

what...the...hell 3k bytes only???????

emanresu A

It's not a complex mapping

DialFrost

@emanresuA ?

btw is there a way to avoid using end in ruby?

emanresu A

It's mapping a set of inputs to # plus some hex digits

DialFrost

11:43

@lyxal I'm performing extreme prettifying of your explanation cuz it looks like hell :P

lyxal

that's intentional

DialFrost

@lyxal ?

lyxal

it's supposed to be snippet, newline, explanation of snippet, another snippet, newline, explanation of snippet

DialFrost

but it's super hard to follow

I'm not sure but do you want to make it flow?

lyxal

well what format are you thinking of?

DialFrost

11:47

like this

the snippet in the explanation flows as the code goes

not newline with no space every new snippet

if that's alright I'll continue editing, I'm about half way gee your code is long XD

lyxal

I wanted to give a more intricate explanation than the standard format

DialFrost

?

lyxal

For such a complex program, a standard explanation doesn't do its complexity justice

DialFrost

Nonononon

sigh

Sorry I meant your "quick overview"

the code doesn't "flow" so it's not readable at all

lyxal

Oh

well of course

the quick overview can be changed

DialFrost

11:53

Ah ok

mousetail

Is there a equivalent to raw r"" strings in C?

DialFrost

do note I'm prettifying this manually

this is painful :P

Btw sry lyxal I just realised that your doing this manually with no eval :/

lyxal

that's the whole point of the answer :p

DialFrost

mbmb

I didn't see that intially

One problem: prettifying it might be bad

cuz the code is so long

u have to keep left and right to check the code and then the explanation

is that ok?

lyxal

that's fine

DialFrost

11:59

Mkay tysm

Ginger

12:12

g'zonkus

mousetail

12:58

cv-plz codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/253782/…

Radvylf Programs

IMO we shouldn't close stuff just to close it, OP will be pretty aware of what to fix, they just need to wake up

And the lack of clarity in how the answers will be timed isn't enough missing information to make it unanswerable in the next 12 hours

Close votes should be used as a last resort IMO. They're wayyy more permanent than they should be, and often cause people to just abandon good challenges

mousetail

All answers are scored completely differently though

It doesn't make sense to answer this question in it's current state

Radvylf Programs

It's clear that its an FC question though, the answerers are just wrong

Long-term yeah, this should be closed, since there's no objective way to score it. But I'm sure we'll have one in the next 24h.

mousetail

It isn't even specified on what sizes it will be tested

It's not a minor issue like missing system specs but it's literally impossible to score a submission

Radvylf Programs

Once I buy my new desktop I should make an FC post so I can brag about the specs :p

3

Pacmanboss256

13:11

I got a new laptop for college with the funny 32 GB of ram

mousetail

I'm shopping for a desktop too but I need to lay internet cable first which is a pain to negociate with my landlord

Radvylf Programs

Wait why? If the wifi works for laptops it can't work any worse for a desktop

mousetail

Most desktops have no wifi, you can get dongles but I'd rather do things properly

graffe

I want to see if wolfram can do the following sum but I can't get it to understand the input. \sum_{n=0}^\infty (-1)^n \frac{\Gamma \left(\frac{n}{2}+1\right)}{n! \Gamma \left(2-\frac{n}{2}\right)}

Pacmanboss256

it should

graffe

13:20

does anyone know how you would input that into Wolfram alpha?

@mousetail I do mine over the power in the house. Then you just need plugs in the wall.

mousetail

My flatmade this that before but the landlord got mad and he had to remove it

graffe

@mousetail the point is you don't need to lay any cables

mousetail

Also the speed was actually quite bad for gaming

Pacmanboss256

@graffe you should be able to use math input, ill do it for yo

graffe

@mousetail how can the landlord get mad? You haven't changed anything in the property

@Pacmanboss256 thanks!

Radvylf Programs

13:23

@mousetail You can still "do it properly", just get a wifi expansion card

graffe

@mousetail you just literally plug a socket into the wall near the router and another where your desktop is

mousetail

I mean our internet was shit, so we called the landlord. He called some repair guy. The repair guy had no idea what he was talking about but told the landlord the powerlines where the issue. So the landlord made him remove the powerline, and our internet was still equally shit

graffe

ah :(

this landlord sounds annoying

which isp are you on?

mousetail

Ziggo

graffe

the netherlands?

mousetail

13:24

Yep

graffe

so really the problem is that the internet is bad even where it enters your property?

mousetail

It's mostly thick concrete walls blocking the wifi signals

graffe

I don't really understand.. how do you get internet at all? Is there a physical socket somewhere?

or is it all by wifi from your landlord who has a router in their property?

mousetail

So I rent a studio in a apartment with several other studios

The router is in the "general" area which is the landlords reponsibility in principle

graffe

where is the router?

ah ok

is the internet any good if you plug directly into the router?

mousetail

13:27

Yea

At least, a lot better

graffe

well that's a good start :)

Pacmanboss256

hm

wolfram really doesnt like this

graffe

so can you just go back to the powerlines?

@Pacmanboss256 go on?

mousetail

Maybe

I really just want to lay cables

graffe

:)

@Pacmanboss256 what does it do?

mousetail

13:29

I only need to drill like 2 holes but the landlord wants to get a proffesional to do it but it's taking forever

graffe

yes I can imagine the problem

Pacmanboss256

wolframalpha.com/…*%CE%93%5C%2840%292-Divide%5Bn%2C2%5D%5C%2841%29%5D%2C%7Bn%2C0%2C%E2%88%9E%7D%5D%5C%2841%29

graffe

@Pacmanboss256 that link didn't paste well

Pacmanboss256

wolframalpha.com/…

it just goes as (-1)^n

graffe

@Pacmanboss256 that was my problem too :(

can anyone see how to fix this?

Pacmanboss256

13:31

yeah uh

use factorial rather than gamma because its a sum

graffe

but it's not over integers

I don't think you can use factorial can you?

Pacmanboss256

it is?

graffe

let's try :)

the answer should be \frac{3-\sqrt{5}}{2}

Pacmanboss256

desmos.com/calculator/idyzxuit1p

desmos.com/calculator/3s4tk4lwka

Sʨɠɠan

TIL that mechanics.SE exists

Pacmanboss256

13:39

upload to wolfram

idk

wolframalpha.com/…*%CE%93%5C%2840%292-Divide%5Bx%2C2%5D%5C%2841%29%5DPower%5B%5C%2840%29-1%5C%2841%29%2Cx%5D%2C%7Bx%2C0%2C%E2%88%9E%7D%5D

anyways i know link broke here it is as an integral

i can probably do floor(x) in the exponent to get it to work

graffe

@Pacmanboss256 IU can't follow the link but did it work?

Pacmanboss256

sorta

i got an answer with complex parts so at least it works let me get back to my dorm room and finish it

graffe

@Pacmanboss256 thanks!

Pacmanboss256

do you have pro wolfram

graffe

sadly no

there is wolfram on TIO

Pacmanboss256

13:49

alright

i have pro through my university

graffe

tio.run/#mathematica

@Pacmanboss256 that's very cool

Pacmanboss256

oh its sooo useful

graffe

I can imagine

do you mind if I ask which uni? Mine says it can't afford it

Pacmanboss256

w&m

graffe

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_of_William_%26_Mary ?

mousetail

13:52

That sounds catholic

Radvylf Programs

Weren't William and Mary protestant rulers?

Pacmanboss256

its a virginia public ivy

Radvylf Programs

William was Dutch IIRC

graffe

King William III and Queen Mary II,

"A Protestant, William participated in several wars against the powerful Catholic French ruler Louis XIV in coalition with both Protestant and Catholic powers in Europe."

thank you wiki :)

@Pacmanboss256 how many public ivys are there?

Pacmanboss256

unsure

graffe

13:57

Public Ivy

"Public Ivy" is a term that refers to prestigious public colleges and universities in the United States that provide a collegiate experience similar to those in the Ivy League. The list of "public ivy" institutions has gone through several revisions over the years, much like other university rankings and conferences. The term was first coined by Yale University admissions officer Richard Moll, who published Public Ivies: A Guide to America's Best Public Undergraduate Colleges and Universities in 1985. == History == The term first appeared in the Public Ivies: A Guide to America's Best Pub...

8, in a sense

graffe

14:10

I killed the conversation.. sorry :(

Radvylf Programs

Not really

If nobody has anything left that they want to say the conversation isn't dead it's just complete

It'd only be "killing the conversation" if you did something that stopped it before everyone was done talking

DialFrost

14:30

@lyxal so sorry I'll complete the edit tmr and set a bounty soon I gtg sleep

graffe

14:55

@Pacmanboss256 did you have any luck?

graffe

15:18

why does 2*log(6/9) - log(4/9) = 0?

mathcat

log2?

graffe

I don't think it matters which base

as long as both logs have the same base

I think I worked it out. logs are so fiddly

caird coinheringaahing

@graffe log(36/81) - log(4/9) = log((36/81)/(4/9)) = log(36/81 * 9/4) = log(1)

For ages, I thought that couldn't be correct as logs can never equal zero, before remembering that they can, it's log(0) that's undefined :P

graffe

@cairdcoinheringaahing thanks!

the lovely symbolab gives an alternative route to the solution

it really is great

Pacmanboss256

unfortunately not

graffe

15:34

@Pacmanboss256 can it not do the sum?

I am tempted to ask on mathematica.se

Pacmanboss256

let me try once mroe

graffe

thanks!

Adám

Is GitHub pages failing?

Pacmanboss256

weirdly enough it works if you have an x in the lower gamma function

graffe

@Pacmanboss256 that is weird

Pacmanboss256

15:40

how did you get the convergence value

graffe

@Pacmanboss256 trivial :) math.stackexchange.com/a/4562895/35671

Pacmanboss256

ok nah

theres probably some division by zero going on here

graffe

I'll ask on mathematica.se although as I don't have a copy of mathematica I might not be able to answer their questions :)

can you paste what you get when you try the sum please so I can use that in the question

Pacmanboss256

yo i did it i think

graffe

cool!

screenshot please :)

Pacmanboss256

15:48

doesnt work but the idea is right

graffe

ah ok

Pacmanboss256

90% sure it times out

i can get a better function here one sev

sec

New Posts

0

Q: Increment, decrement, undo, peek

Write a program or function (hereafter "function") that returns or prints the source code of four new functions: Increment, decrement, undo, and peek. The initial function contains an internal integer value of 0. Each of the returned functions contains a value based on that value, and each behave...

graffe

@Pacmanboss256 could you paste the mathematica code that is the sum please

Pacmanboss256

its wrong i messed up the inverse sin

graffe

15:53

@Pacmanboss256 I meant the original sum without the integral

Pacmanboss256

uhhhh i posted the image

graffe

I was just looking the mathematica version of the sum so I can paste it into a question

Pacmanboss256

wolfram is being sad

graffe

:(

Radvylf Programs

NPSP is so fast that SE doesn't know the post exists yet to onebox it :p

PyGamer0

16:03

@RadvylfPrograms wow

mathcat

ooh that might've been the problem with gingerbot

Radvylf Programs

I ran into this issue very occasionally with the old NPSP

The solution was to repeatedly ask the API if the post exists until it said it did, since that takes just as long to update

graffe

@Pacmanboss256 With v13.1, Sum[(-1)^n Gamma[n/2 + 1]/(n! Gamma[2 - n/2]), {n, 0, Infinity}] evaluates to 1/2 (3 - Sqrt[5])

@Pacmanboss256 which version are you using?

Pacmanboss256

i was using the online one

i can use the downloaded version on my laptop

graffe

as in wolfram alpha?

could you try the downloaded version please

Pacmanboss256

16:06

ydah

ok

graffe

Pacmanboss256

ok its downloading an update and i have class in 20 mins

ill get back to you during my next class :p

graffe

ok :)

but the good news is that it can do it

Sandbox Posts

17:31

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Speed Checkers KOTH For this King of the Hill challenge, your bot will play checkers against an opponent. However, you should be careful when making complex calculations, because both sides have a limited amount of time to play! Each side will start with 1,000,000 cycles [or 1 second, depending ...

Sandbox Posts

17:56

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Farigiraf my Girafarig A palindrome is a word that is its own reverse. I will define the left palindromic root of a word as the shortest prefix of the word for which the shortest possible palindrome that begins with that prefix is the original word. So the left palindromic root of racecar is race...

Radvylf Programs

Woah

That was some incredibly lucky timing for the feeds to be updated

Ginger

18:40

@RadvylfPrograms riddle me this: how do I use map with a closure returning a String (which is unsized)?

I tried a Box but that doesn't work because it needs a reference and I have to dereference the incoming type to perform operations on it

Radvylf Programs

I haven't done anything with closures yet with Rust, unfortunately

Assuming by map you mean std::collections::HashMap?

Ginger

no, the map function of iterators

Radvylf Programs

Ohh

Ginger

it wants a Sized type

for some reason

Radvylf Programs

That's odd, since Map doesn't seem to require that

What does the iterator come from?

Ginger

18:45

lemme show you my code:

let nouns: Vec<Box<&str>> = json::parse(include_str!("../data/nouns.json")).unwrap()["nouns"].members().map(|x| Box::new(*x.take_string().unwrap())).collect();

take_string() returns a String

Radvylf Programs

* is the issue

You're dereferencing an &str

Which gives you a chunk of memory with no information about how big it is; basically just a pointer

You need to do .to_owned() if you want a String

Assuming take_string().unwrap() is giving you a &str

Ginger

it gives me a String

Radvylf Programs

Wait then what's the * for

Ginger

because removing it gives a different error about borrowing x as mutable

Radvylf Programs

I'm not even sure what * would do to a String

Ginger

18:48

which is probably because take_string() transfers ownership of the underlying value of x, which is a JsonValue enum

Radvylf Programs

Yeah, that's the issue you need to fix then

Ginger

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Radvylf Programs

Also why a Box<&str>? Seems kinda nonstandard

I'd go with a String if you want it to be owned, or a &str if you don't, but a Box<&str> is just a String without features

Ginger

had to change that to a String

also, there seems to be no way to get the underlying data out of the JsonValue w/o taking ownership

Radvylf Programs

If x is a serde Value, just do as_str

Wait please for the love of JavaScript tell me that you're using serde and not some cursed library made by a 13 year old

(JavaScript is the god of cursedness, so that's why it's for its love)

Ginger

18:51

I'm using json

Radvylf Programs

Please just use serde

Ginger

you got it

wish I'd known about that earlier!

Radvylf Programs

You can literally just do let nouns: Vec<String> = serde_json::from_str(&nouns).unwrap();

Ginger

ffs

Radvylf Programs

where nouns is the JSON array as a string

Ginger

18:54

that's SO MUCH BETTER

tysm

Radvylf Programs

Ooh I just noticed something really cool:

1 -> 1
2 -> 4
3 -> 9
4 -> 6
5 -> 5
6 -> 6
7 -> 9
8 -> 4
9 -> 1

Those are the last digit of numbers mapped to the last digit of their squares

Ginger

wat

oh

Radvylf Programs

It's symmetrical

mathcat

ooh

Transcript for