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00:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

00:14
seggan and i should send each other our passwords so we can be the same person
00:30
@aketon Lol uhh, it's interesting
@aketon I think my parse hates me
00:52
*parser
Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Show a balanced binary tree
01:09
@AidenChow Other way around: $needle N $haystack (where $needle in this case is the regex). Also, the other nice thing I just realized is that N is lower precedence so you don't need the parentheses: DSO
01:24
@Sʨɠɠan deal. whats ur email
This is a terrible idea but it's hilarious
@Sʨɠɠan or lets switch pfps :P
I was gonna try something but this account is glitchy
 
1 hour later…
02:32
CMQ: dyad:monad:nilad::binary:unary:<what goes here?>
that feels sooo weird to me
but ok ty
@lyxal Oh speaking of Scala, what are you going to use for the numbers?
Does it have a SymPy port like C++?
and then i guess another question: in what context would you use one set of terms over the other? is it entirely 100% arbitrary? or is it like, a meaningful difference
The former is mostly used in tacit languages, the latter in more traditional ones
@user346760 I don't believe _ behaves any differently in Rust when used in the context of a variable name
The only difference is that it won't throw unused variable warnings
Which is true of any underscore prefixed variables
And it's useful having a way to say "this value isn't going to be used"
Especially in languages with destructuring assignments
02:40
@RadvylfPrograms ah ok thank you
I'd recommend dyad/monad/nilad
They're harder to confuse with the identically named bases, and just more elegant sounding
agree lol
or just to not confuse people with haskell monads ill call them dyads unary operators and nilads
I'm not sure whether I actually like that idea or really don't
haha :-)
02:45
just stick to one convention please
oh i know
i'll use these
nah my lang isnt cool enough for that but people making weird stuff: please take note ^^
Wait is that as simple as intransitive/transitive is
I always was scared to google those since they sounded complicated
i might honestly do that for perhaps, between it being implemented in haskell and me being a ling nerd :P
@RadvylfPrograms yes lmao
02:46
^^ YAY
_=>rain()
hm
is there a (more specific) term for a function that expects a list vs expecting a single value
A list data structure or mre thanone arg?
former
i think
wait i gotta think about it
@Sʨɠɠan YES
ok ill spill a bit; im deciding on default behaviors for operators/functions missing arguments, but im thinking of having it depend on number of inputs to the program lol
so like if theres an op expecting a list, and theres several inputs, the list it defaults to is the inputs
but if its just one input, it just uses the list of pos ints
(theres only number input)
i phrased that very poorly :-P
@RadvylfPrograms not a port, but there is a symbolic algebra library for scala I found earlier this year
02:59
Be careful to make sure it actually has reasonably effective simplification
If it's anything like the Rust one, it won't
So long as it doesn't have ACE exploits I'm happy :p
It can be inefficient all it wants if it means there's no chance of people deleting all site files :p
@RadvylfPrograms which one are you using?
None because Rust has no good symoblic math library, and I came to the realization that symbolic math actually is not arbitrary precision
I am now disillusioned by numbers
And yes, symbolic algebra doesn't necessarily mean arbitrary precision
Symbolic algebra libraries are good for if you want algebra built-ins
Well yeah but what I mean is that with arbitrary precision internal number representations it still cannot compute everything with perfect accuracy
It just hides it better than floats
Symbolic algebra can handle that by leaving things as exact values and only estimating when needed
03:07
No it cannot is what I'm saying
Yes it can - things like sqrt(2) can be stored as square root objects and estimated when you need a decimal representation
And that doesn't work for things like rounding and comparison
Obviously
It's only as effective as its ability to simplify expressions in that regard, and even SymPy's multiples tens of thousands of SLOC of simplification rules cannot do that with everything
@lyxal Not obviously. It's not really obvious that SymPy has no way of determining if two values are equal.
I more meant obviously there's going to be some difficulties comparing complex expressions
As soon as you know there's limitations on what can be done by the library, you know that some things may not be simplified
03:11
But yeah I'm kind of lost as to what I should do for numbers in my golflang now
Floats have the advtange of being extremely easy, and working for most languages here due to our rules
Floats and ints is almost as easy, and allows for arbitrary precision in almost all cases at a byte penalty when it's absolutely necessary
@lyxal what is it?
Complex numbers seem like they'd be useful though, so then you have to consider using those
And then why not arbitrary precision rationals
11 mins ago, by lyxal
https://index.scala-lang.org/cascala/galileo/galileo/0.1.3?target=_2.13
we were going to use spire for arbritrary precision but idk about symbolic algebra.
hmm
And each one has its own issues and none of them is perfect :(
03:14
does it support arbritrary high numbers?
I haven't tested it very much yet
I just want to be able to represent every computable number with arbitrary precision and operate on them without any incorrect results no matter what, without investing too much time. Is that too much to ask?
i wouldn't ask for arbritrary precision floats, but yes ints
att
att
In mathematics, Richardson's theorem establishes the undecidability of the equality of real numbers defined by expressions involving integers, π, ln ⁡ 2 , {\displaystyle \ln 2,} and exponential and sine functions. It was proved in 1968 by mathematician and computer scientist Daniel Richardson of the University of Bath. Specifically, the class of expressions for which the theorem holds is that generated by rational numbers, the number π, the number ln 2, the variable x, the operations of addition, subtraction, multiplication,...
03:16
Ooh that's actually really interesting
I feel less insecure about not being able to figure out how to get equality working now
Math is conspiring against me again. I should've known.
Anyway I'm going to sleep now. If I don't show up in the morning I probably got assassinated by Big Integer.
(get it)
o/
att
att
and that's just a small set of possible operations you might want to symbolically represent
nope :P
The best you can ask for from a CAS library is to do enough algebraic simplification and be precise enough so that you can use it in challenges where other golfing languages would have to use way more bytes
Basically very niche situations and tags
@Sʨɠɠan gosh hecking dang it
symja might work though
it supports arbritrary precision, and it's a symbolic algebra library
But does it work nice with scala and scala js?
03:27
idk about scalajs
yes scala
i guess there's only one way to find out :P
@RadvylfPrograms Don't worry about Big Integer, most of their power is divided between their parent company, Big Rational
2
@DLosc thank you i just used regenerate for practical purposes; i needed a list of bytes from 00 to ff and i was about to do some Programming but then i realized i could just stick [0-9A-F]{2} down and be done with it :-)
 
2 hours later…
05:20
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

oeufMinimum rotation to get the maximum value I recently solved a coding challenge in one of challenge papers that my IT teacher gave to us. It was a seemingly simple, but fun challenge, so I thought it will make fun golfing. The task Given an input of a 2x2 matrix, like this: a b c d We ...

 
1 hour later…
06:22
Strange
I randomly got 2 rep back without anything appearing in the rep notif
 
1 hour later…
07:26
"rename DialFrost to DialBurn?" - someone on SO chat
:3
Isn't that just a thermometer?
@mousetail good point :P
unfortunately burnination = burn but != freeze
so dialfrost doesn't fit :(
07:43
Many burnination requests do have funny titles
I once did this
Burneration puns are a time honored tradition
2
Q: Perhaps the [shortcut] tag is not actually getting us there quicker?

Captain HatI was writing a questions about keyboard shortcuts when I stumbled across the shortcut tag. It's currently described as: A route more direct than the one ordinarily taken. A method or means of doing something more directly and quickly than and often not so thoroughly as by ordinary procedure. T...

08:41
1
Q: Next Time For ALL-INC-PAL-PAI

Kevin CruijssenIntroduction: Some times using a 24-hour clock are formatted in a nice pattern. For these patterns, we'll have four different categories: All the same (pattern AA:AA or A:AA): 0:00 1:11 2:22 3:33 4:44 5:55 11:11 22:22 Increasing (pattern AB:CD or B:CD, where D==C+1==B+2==A+3): 0:12 1:23...

@DLosc DSO is enough innit
@Bubbler good one! :3
@mousetail Do u have a better title for my post? I can't think of anything :(
@DialFrost Which one?
@DialFrost Maybe "[country] road, take me home"?
@mousetail hmm ngl that's a good one hehe
Title contains a [tag] prefix; please use the tag field to enter tags instead.
nani ^
Sad
Now I'm wondering what tags with >500 questions have the highest and lowest close rate
09:30
@mousetail unless I add the quotation
maybe?
Your call
10:17
Jan 6 at 19:16, by caird coinheringaahing
I say we conquer the void that is wyoming and claim it for the golfers
@hyper-neutrino Hi, I'm here from the future to tell you that it's caird
10:49
@emanresuA Wyoming doesn't exist idiot
can confirm, it's literally an empty black void
looks like Minecraft chunks do when you're flying too fast
Can we radiate out our heat into the void to fix climate change?
no, the Shadow People will sue us
believe me, I've tried :p
In what court?
the Shadow Courts, overseen by a Being of Pure Law and Good
10:59
Oh then you'll easily win, the Being of Pure Law and Good is very cheap to bribe
exactly! shh don't tell the shadow people though, they don't know on account of living in an impenetrable void
11:19
@Ginger no, no it's not even a void
it's just not real at all
11:52
@Ginger I bet that if you do tell the shadow people they'll probably execute you for lying
@thejonymyster nilary?
I'm out of stupid projects to work on, someone give me some ideas :p
learn x86 assembly
I said stupid, not insane
@Ginger ive been planning a BF machine for a while now
i.e. a cpu that executes BF
12:25
. _ .
@Ginger it really isn't insane
just baby steps
I do not want to learn x86 assembly
@Ginger okay so you know how there's link shorteners that take a link and shorten it? How about a link rickrollener?
w h a t
Takes a link and returns a similar looking link
12:26
umm
try making paint in factor
I see
looks like a meta post, but clicky clicky and ricky ricky
ಠ_ಠ
I think that you would be too powerful with that
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

py3_and_c_programmerCreate a DialFrost simulator code-golfrandom inspired by this message asked in chat DialFrost simulator upgraded: to an input, append or prepend (50% chance of each) ":3" NOTE: no offense to DialFrost, just posted this because I personally found his trademark funny. So basically, your task is...

12:31
> buy stackexchagne.com
>profit
you can get that for $12/yr on Google Domains :b
@Ginger what if chatbot that allows SE chat users to play uno?
I tried investing in domain names once
but I think that'd get you in trouble with the mods
Got some good ones too but nobody wanted them
12:33
@lyxal tell me more
@Ginger so remember how we wanted to play uno together once?
faintly
but we couldn't because the uno site was inaccessible for you?
yes
well what if chat bot to do game control + companion site like a replit site to show cards to each user?
12:34
h m m m m m m
so like the site shows your hand and the game is played in chat?
There are many discord bots like that
@Ginger yes
@mousetail does this look like discord to you
I'm sure they could be adapted to SEChat
sure, but I like this idea and will be doing it myself
12:35
This is like discord without reactions
I wish it were lol
@Ginger alternatively, get a friendly mod to create some private chatrooms and cards are shown in private chats here :p
@Ginger Yea of course but if you wanted inspiration
we don't have private chat (well technically we do but you need to have a mod on hand to use it)
12:36
> get a friendly mod to create some private chatrooms
Can't you onebox images in chat, where the server checks your cookies and sends a different image depending on the user
huh?
To hide cards from you depending on the player
I do not know what you mean by that
Like this:
Sad
When you send a image in chat like this:
It will be replaced by the actual image
But each browser makes seperate requests to the server where the image is hosted
so the server doesn't need to send the same image back for every user
12:38
that's actually a really good idea
lemme do some testing rq
52
Q: Create a User-Profile Mini-Game

mellamokbYesterday, I stumbled on a very clever thing. Yes, that's a working implementation of Tic-Tac-Toe on a user profile page, from @minitech. Of course, the moment I saw it, I had to reverse engineer his idea and one-up him :P Here's my own example embedded directly in the post. It's a tad buggy ...

kinda like that maybe
@py3_and_c_programmer with regards to your edit, it is unacceptable. you have changed the meaning of the answer, and i wanted it for this specific case, not general
did that always have -4
Yea
I mean I guess at some point it had 0 but it has been -4 for a while
This one has a much lower negative score though:
-58
A: Loopholes that are forbidden by default

user10766Using built-in functions to do the work Mathematica is a big one for this, with Fibonacci[n] to calculate the n'th Fibonacci number.... I have no objection to these being posted as a side note within the main answer though - that is interesting and helps me learn different languages capabilities...

ah lol
is there any reason i shouldnt just roll back the edit
12:51
what tf is this doing on SO??? :p
12 years ago should answer that lol
CGSE started just as a tag on SO
wow
a real tags-to-riches story
5
rimshot :P
Lol a discussion as old as time
ok im rolling it back since i believe edits to rollback unacceptable edits are allowed :P
12:53
enjoy
7
A: Code Golf: Conway's Game of Life

Adrian GrigoreThe following solution uses my own custom domain-specific programming language which I have called NULL: 3499538 In case you are wondering how this works: My language consists of only of one statment per program. The statement represents a StackOverflow thread ID belonging to a code golf thre...

metagolflang!
It's not really like metagolflang since it copies the best solution rather than encode the program in the language name
@mousetail oooh yeah
@Ginger never knew?
lmao this non-answer
0
A: Code Golf: Conway's Game of Life

dbasnettOne of the classic patterns *** ..* .* My avatar was created using my version of the Game of Life using this pattern and rule(note that it is not 23/3): #D Thanks to my daughter Natalie #D Try at cell size of 1 #R 8/1 #P -29 -29 .********************************************************* *.***...

I don't even get what the point of that answer is
12:57
@thejonymyster yeah its fine
Why didnt' they migrate old questions instead of leaving them locked and unimprovable
The C answer has so much low hanging fruit :(
13:03
Why isn't it closed?
Someone should add a answer to draw attention to it
a well golfed one
Yep
A golf to end all golfs
CMC: outgolf everyone here
4
13:04
^ can we pin this
Scoring by keyboard presses is a interesting choice, as well as including flags in the byte count
i think including flags was the rule here a while ago
It makes a lot of sense IMHO
For some languages where flags give a major advantage
CMC: execute code foreign to your program
Python: eval(input())
13:11
foreign as in executable in other languages?
foreign as in coming from outside of your program
but good question
JS: eval(prompt())
@mousetail exec(input()) should also work well
No way Python accepts that unbalanced bracket
Is that really valid
@RadvylfPrograms my bad!
13:15
Are there any practlangs that ignore unbalanced parenthesis?
scratchblocks
does excel count
@mousetail Some BASICS prolly do, TI-BASIC does
Cool thanks
13:16
texas instruments... did they ever make musical instruments
or is ti-basic a different ti
@mousetail excel sheets language does
No it's Texas Instruments
ok ok im not crazy :P
I've always been a cacio fan
i didnt know they made fans
13:17
How can I not buy TI calculators, they've got Texas in the name
whataburger calculator
It's also the only antique they manufacture fresh every day
I still have a old cacio from high school that I still use frequently.
@thejonymyster But is that the only thing they make?
2
@mousetail do you mean casio or something else
13:19
Probably
It's a calculator
i figured it was a typo n ignored it but you said it twice now lol
so i was like Is there a brand named cacio competing with casio....
Maybe it's not a typo but I just genuinly have no idea how to use letters
thats OK with me
I hear when you get to Calculus XII you unlock TI-ADVANCED
ok this is a weird thought but the roman numeral there made me think of it
if you look at roman numeral two (II) and go "hey, it looks like I times I", and then rewrite it as I squared, you get I^II
but then you see II again.... rinse and repeat :-)
13:24
Ok but the value will always be 1 after the first step
yes :P its not good math
@thejonymyster Clearly, proving that 2 = ~0.207
Could you make this work with different numbers so the math is good?
hm
i have no idea :-) cmegac: given two roman numerals, determine if one can be converted to the other via various cursed transformations
13:29
Like what cursed tranformations?
XV (15) -> X*V -> L (50)
idk this is a dumb train of thought
@mousetail done:3
im hopping off of it but youre welcome to stay hurtling down the track :-)
@lyxal wut that hell ru doing up so late
user image
3
(no u)
13:33
@thejonymyster CMC: Given a number, convert it into a roman numeral, take the product of its digits, and return it
Appreciate the different notations for [::-1]
I wonder if that applied repeatedly will always reach a fixed point, or if it could loop or continue toward infinity
Well if will reach a fixed point for 1-3
@RadvylfPrograms return roman numeral or arabic numeral?
13:34
limitation: there are only finitely many roman numerals arent there
@thejonymyster True
We could just assume a fake subset of roman numerals where 5*10**n and 10**n continue to have digits
@RadvylfPrograms Vyxal, 6 bytes: føṘΠøṘ: Try it Online!
Conjecture: I think if you go past XIX it will always diverge
Except for single leter numerals
13:35
worsecollatz: if the roman numeral representation of n has 1 digit, subtract 1, else digital product on roman numeral form of n
Wow that really is worse
@mousetail but wait, there's more!
Let me write up a nginx rule
XV -> L -> XXXXIX -> i dont know the roman numeral for 100000
@lyxal ahem its only 9pm here
13:38
@thejonymyster MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
apparently
i love that song
I think there's special non-letter numerals for multiples of 1000
how to get back into a room between 2 people i left?
@thejonymyster Try it Online!
@Sʨɠɠan Only way is to search for it, search your browser history, or if you sent any messages, look at your message history
@Sʨɠɠan alternatively, you could try checking your DMs on discord
yea the whole overline thing
@lyxal ?
me when some random java post overtakes me in HMQ on SO
@Sʨɠɠan I think I know the room you're looking for :p
btw you're RO of it anyway
13:41
@RadvylfPrograms this but with decimal output seems like it could be more interesting especially if you allow the whole "assume arbitrarily many roman numerals"
hot metwork question?
@lyxal no?
im looking for a conversation between me and another person
is that not it?
[lyxal src/main:1:1] assertion failed
and another person, lyxal
not the same person
Oh well I gtg bai guys
o/
13:53
@lyxal it is, ty
Yay NMP and NSP are now logging in with the correct accounts :D
And that actually adds extra redundancy two the two-watch-websockets thing; one is owned by each account
So even if the NMP one totally fails to start for some reason, NSP would still watch for posts
(of course, every 24 minutes it would go down for a few seconds, but since NPSP 2.0 can look through the API and room transcripts to see if it missed any new posts while both sockets were down, it won't matter)
14:42
spicy
14:55
Wow thank you SE for gziping the API results even when gzip isn't an Accepted-Encoding
Which totally doesn't cause issues at all when you're using the API with minimal HTTP clients as one does
Luckily it's an optional feature you can import for reqwest
there is no feeling better than trying 20 different ways to do something in bash and then having it finally work (in my case I was trying to move all files matching a regex and did it with mv `find -regex <regex>` <dest>
00:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

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