The Nineteenth Byte

Bubbler

00:05

@mousetail and both are prime

OldSandboxPosts

01:00

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Use "e" or a suffix?, (untitled)

New Posts

02:02

0

Q: Fibonacci word fractal

The Fibonacci word is a sequence of binary strings defined as: \$F_0 = \$ 0 \$F_1 = \$ 01 \$F_n = F_{n-1} F_{n-2}\$ The first few Fibonacci words are: 0 01 010 01001 01001010 0100101001001 010010100100101001010 ... Each of these strings is a prefix of the next, so they are all prefixes of the ...

Seggan

02:33

@Steffan I beat you back

Fun fact Fig only has 628 SLOC

Steffan

02:51

welp time to add a (digraph) builtin only used for this challenge to remove zeros

I would've beaten you still if you didn't have frac byte

minifies Chocolate only has one SLOC!

It's got 977 lines

Seggan

@Steffan Also I just beat you on fib that you were bragging about a while back :P

Steffan

03:19

argh, only because of frac byte

also you actually didn't

mine can be two bytes

builtin

#f

Steffan

03:30

Oh I guess LDW is tomorrow

emanresu A

04:03

I should really get halfwit 2 working

Currently it's in a state where I need to implement a ton of modifiers and elements and fix all my typing

Bubbler

Someone should create a lang called "Currently"

Aiden Chow

lets goooooooooooo, got the silver code golf badge

Bubbler

nice

emanresu A

nice

Aiden Chow

uuugh, im trying to do the fibonacci fractal challenge in desmos, looks like im doing it correct, but when i compare step by step, its not matching

wait i think i got it

guys could u run this for a bit and see if its right: desmos.com/calculator/yw599shmoc

emanresu A

05:20

tfw you calculate the area of something and it's negative

Aiden Chow

@emanresuA integral?

Bubbler

Well, you might have actually calculated signed area

in which case the solution is to take its absolute value

Aiden Chow

@Bubbler yea thats what i was thinking

thats why im asking if they use integral, very common with integral to get negative

Bubbler

oh right, integral as in calculus

when I saw "integral" the first thing I thought of was adjective form of integer

Aiden Chow

oh LOL

emanresu A

05:25

@AidenChow Yes and I probably did something wrong lol

Aiden Chow

yea thats like super confusing, never really understood why they gotta call "integral" for both

@emanresuA i mean u couldve got signed area like bubbler said

plug it into WA and see what u get :P

whats the integral btw?

emanresu A

I get -1/3

Bubbler

oh lol

Aiden Chow

@emanresuA oof, i just plug into wolfram and it said 1/3

lemme solve it myself real quick lol

Bubbler

for me, substitution gives a minus and swapped range gives another minus

emanresu A

05:34

swapped range?

Bubbler

I had u = sqrt(1-x^2)

which changes 0-1 to 1-0

emanresu A

Ah ok

Aiden Chow

@Bubbler dang thats better than what i did lol

i did trig substitution, x = sin theta, dx = cos theta d theta

emanresu A

Bruh

Aiden Chow

still got 1/3 tho

so its all good lol

but i think bubblers method is like 10x better

emanresu A

05:39

I just did u=1-x^2

Aiden Chow

ya i over complicated it

cuz i saw sqrt and square inside and immediately thought trig

emanresu A

Lol

Aiden Chow

ended up with int theta = 0 to pi/2 sin(theta)cos^2(theta) d(theta)

then i did u sub

and got the answer

so yep, over complicated

graffe

06:08

Hello!

@emanresuA what does sympy give?

graffe

06:24

Th indefinite integral is -((-x-1)^(3/2)*(x-1)^(3/2))/3

Aiden Chow

@graffe hi!

@graffe what method u use to solve it :P

graffe

06:45

@AidenChow integration by parts.

Aiden Chow

dang we all doing different methods here lol

bubbler doing u=sqrt(1-x^2), emanresu doing u = 1-x^2, i did trig substitution, and now integration by parts

wow

graffe

Notice it is sqrt((1-x)(x-1)) x

Aiden Chow

ya thats true

its just interesting how we all thought of different methods to solve the same integral

graffe

From there just substitute u = (1-x) (x+1) (I meant x+1 above)

No integration by parts needed in fact :)

Aiden Chow

nice

Bubbler

06:54

one fewer different methods :P

graffe

:)

Aiden Chow

lol ya, thats just emanresus method now

graffe

@AidenChow yep

Easy peasy :)

Where did the integral come from?

can we have more please :)

Int 1/(x^2-x+1) is more tricky

Aiden Chow

@graffe probably complete the square right

graffe

@AidenChow yes!

Aiden Chow

07:02

its like u try to get it into the form 1/(1+x^2) becuz int 1/(1+x^2) is arctan x, iirc

smth like that

graffe

Very good

I like the instructions to students people.math.sc.edu/girardi/m142/integration/100problems.pdf

Aiden Chow

@graffe the integral came from emanresu trying to figure out where his mistake was lol

graffe

@AidenChow :)

Int ln(x+1) reminds me why integration annoys me

Aiden Chow

@graffe thats integration by parts right

graffe

@AidenChow yes, after a substitution

You are clearly very good at integration!

Aiden Chow

07:15

@graffe solved it using a substitution u = (2x-1)/sqrt(3), du = 2/sqrt(3) dx

that substitution gives the integral: sqrt(3)/2 * int 1/(3/4 * u^2 + 3/4)

graffe

Very nice!

Aiden Chow

so factor out 1/(3/4) = 4/3 from the denominator and get 2/sqrt(3) * arctan(u)

so answer is 2/sqrt(3) * arctan((2x-1)/sqrt(3)) + C

@graffe yea lol i had to take a test on calculus so i learn it

its called ap calculus bc

graffe

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/…).

Aiden Chow

@graffe yep that one

took it a few months ago

was taking precalc in school while self studying for this test on the side lol

graffe

What score did you get?

Aiden Chow

07:23

@graffe got a 4, which is apparently like a B in a college level calculus course

graffe

Cool

Are you going to university?

(I don’t know when you say college and when you say university)

Aiden Chow

@graffe like this year? no, im still in the 9th grade lolol

still some ways off college

Aiden Chow

07:36

if u meant to ask if im planning to go to university in the future, then the answer is most likely yes, tho i have no idea which one yet

graffe

07:47

k

I hardly know what 9th grade means but I am inferring before university :)

@AidenChow did you take the ap exam early?

pxeger

09:42

How can the SO blog be so bad? stackoverflow.blog/2022/09/06/…

> Will students learn the the fundamentals if they can just TAB their way to a function?

> the the

mousetail

I know right? Every time there is a interesting title then it reading the artice covers only the basic basics. Like they just read the summaries of the top 5 google results.

emanresu A

Yeah

@pxeger Of course not, you need to be able to understand what copilot's written to use it

And you can learn from it too

pxeger

I was mainly commenting on the unbelievable lack of proofreading

mousetail

You can learn a lot of bad habbits from copilot

emanresu A

True

mousetail

09:47

Fun fact: most code is not good

pxeger

I feel like every single blog post has at least one glaring error like that

emanresu A

Because copilot isn't perfect, and it can make mistakes, as I've discovered while working on Vyxal.

(fun fact: Copilot is (probably) the #1 Vyxal contributor)

pxeger

That doesn't seem to have stopped Vyxal contributors from committing lots of its mistakes

emanresu A

Yep.

Wow this got nuked fast

mousetail

@emanresuA Nuked?

It seems to still be up

pxeger

09:59

mousetail

Oh I need 10K to get this

understood

graffe

10:15

My main contribution so far as someone with some rep has been to correct less to fewer :)

@emanresuA that's pretty amazing

New Bounties With No Deadlines

1

A: List of bounties with no deadline

500 rep for the first engineered pattern in Live a longer life Currently, all the answers to Live a longer life, except the first few ones, are either found by soup search, or is a predecessor of other answers. They are discovered instead of constructed. I offer 500 rep for the first answer with ...

PyGamer0

10:38

@mousetail you can't learn those bad habits if you don't use copilot :bigbrain:

@pxeger what is the blog trying to say? i hate typing (and writing) System.out.println everytime i want go print something

Adám

Is there a number n such that the first n digits of pi has an arithmetic mean that approximates pi to n decimals?

emanresu A

Ofc not

Adám

Why not?

emanresu A

The denominator of a pi approximation is roughly proportional to 10^precision

And the denominator on the average can only be the number of digits

Adám

Ah.

Maybe not as well-formed a question, but is there at least a "good" approximation of pi that can be found by the mean of its leading digits?

pxeger

10:46

3?

Adám

Yeah, that's closer than n=7

mousetail

I don't think so

emanresu A

Isn't n=1 closest?

mousetail

It will approah 0.45 as N increases

and passes 3.8 when n=6

pxeger

I didn't mean n=3, I meant n=0 or n=1 (depending on how you count it), so that the value is 3

mousetail

10:48

and n=1 is the closest to pi of all answers upto then

Adám

Yeah, n=1 is best for the first million digits.

emanresu A

Oof, my vyxal script could only handle the first 200

Adám

@mousetail Good point, but at some point there'll be x consecutive digits ≤ 4, for any given number x.

mousetail

You you just want consecutive digits, not necessarily starting with 3?

pxeger

What about: Is there a number n such that the first n digits of pi has an arithmetic mean that approximates pi to k decimals, for a given k?

mousetail

10:53

I'm 99% sure only 1 is a valid answer to that

emanresu A

^

mousetail

Maybe if you use geometric mean instead you can get closer?

pxeger

Assuming the digits of pi are uniformly and independently distributed, the mean will wobble around 4.5

But will it ever wobble enough to get to near 3?

emanresu A

That's an unsolved mathematical problem

mousetail

@pxeger The wobble will get smaller and smaller

at some point there will be no way to get below 4 anymore

pxeger

10:55

@emanresuA Whether my assumption is true is an unsolved mathematical problem

but the wobble question I think can be answered

mousetail

You can't prove that it's impossible I think

but there is overwhelming evidence that it can't be done

emanresu A

@mousetail Probably. The geometric mean of 1 and 9 is 3

pxeger

The instant there's a zero you're stuck though

emanresu A

True

~~0 isn't a digit~~

pxeger

The closest to pi you'll ever get with the geometric mean is ≈3.1533 after 10 digits

Adám

11:14

That's pretty close, though.

Feeds

0

Q: Incorrect byte counts

There seems to be a prolific issue of people underestimating their byte counts. For esolangs that use non-ASCII characters, there's often more than one byte per character. For instance, this answer lists their solution at 10 bytes (it's ten characters), but if you actually look at the number of b...

discussion

emanresu A

@mousetail it is on meta

mousetail

I noticed and deleted my comment

Sandbox Posts

11:40

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

🤖 Robotics competition You're entering a robotics competition! There are 3 types of parts for you to choose for your robot: wheels, legs and sensors. A robot: can have up to 8 parts in total can only have 4 legs must have at least 2 parts must have at least one leg or one wheel You can't decid...

pxeger

Does this answer your question? What exactly is a "byte" here? — emanresu A 39 secs ago

I despise these automatic comments

Why can't SE notice the fact that someone has already linked it (which is info they already have - see the Linked sidebar section), and then not put the comment in that case

emanresu A

and it's not like it was the first vote

pxeger

I presume it put it there because the first two voters deleted their comments

lyxal

That's right

It decided to leave one when I vtcd

Even though I was the second vote

Number Basher

12:00

LDW!

... right?

mousetail

Got some odd unicode behavior

Number Basher

from where?

@emanresuA what's marshall, hmm

@mousetail how, which website?

Ginger

Welcome to the seventh Language Design Workshop! The general premise is that you can post work you've done or are doing on esolangs and people will give feedback. In short, you'll get to show off our languages and their features, chat about them, get feedback, try out WIP languages, and, hopefully get ideas over the next 24 hours.

8

@lyxal pin please

pxeger

@Ginger status-completed

Ginger

12:15

awesome

time to workshop those languages

graffe

@att hi

Ginger

by which I mean, time for yall to workshop those languages while I go work on lambda.chat like I have been for the past two weeks

Number Basher

lol

SunSip: https://github.com/TvoozMagnificent/SunSip

Ginger

hey @NumberBasher I'm going to see if I can make SunSip into a package so that you can just run sunsip <program> from the command line

Number Basher

thnx

pip install sunsip or something like that should work but it sucks and its not up to date

mousetail

12:21

@NumberBasher mousetail.github.io/CellTail/…

Ginger

@NumberBasher That's what I'm fixing :p

Number Basher

"it sucks" or "its not p to date" or both

Ginger

both

@NumberBasher do you have an email you'd like me to use, or should I use your GitHub noreply one?

pxeger

You can't send emails to a github noreply email address

mousetail

SunSip cleared my screen last I used it which was very annoying

pxeger

12:24

that's the whole point

Ginger

I know, but poetry wants an email or else ~~it'll kill my family~~

so I have to give it something

pxeger

Can't you leave it blank?

mousetail

@Ginger It won't kill your family. It's worse. It will force them to listen to Gorgon Poetry

Ginger

I guess?

@mousetail Did you mean: Vogon Poetry?

Number Basher

@Ginger [email protected]

Ginger

12:25

ok then

mousetail

Too many aliens to keep track of

Number Basher

@mousetail oh no, but i think the newline thing is fixxed. maybe?

yah its fixxed

mousetail

Add newlines at the end rather than the start you mean?

That's good

Number Basher

@mousetail wait did i?

no, i think i deleted the 1000 newline thing, wdym

pxeger

TIL you can select multiple tabs in Firefox

Ginger

12:34

@NumberBasher what's the current version?

Number Basher

on github

github is newest version

Number Basher

12:56

@Ginger how are you doing?

Ginger

@NumberBasher I know, but what's the latest version number?

Number Basher

in pip?

@Ginger 1.0.2

bye, gotta go

just pin me

thejonymyster

13:18

@Seggan is there a fig room

graffe

@thejonymyster hello!

thejonymyster

howdy do

graffe

alive!

you?

thejonymyster

maybe

graffe

understood

thejonymyster

13:23

hard to tell, mostly just employed :-)

graffe

did you ever get that code to work?

sorry about the job

the one for estimating the average length

thejonymyster

oh yea i never got around to it but i should take a look rq

graffe

thanks!

my linux is sadly half dead for mysterious reasons so I am stuck on this windows laptop

thejonymyster

just as a refresher, what's the expected value? also rip

graffe

I don't know anything about windows

@thejonymyster for the longest it is 0.624...

for the second longest, who knows!

I was hoping you would tell me

sorry... 0.624 is the expected length of the longest part divided by the length of the original stick

thejonymyster

13:28

oh thats important :P ill test that then

oh, well i mean its /100 so the number should look the same lol

the issue was that i was getting 58, lets see

just ungolfed my code :mag:

graffe

I sadly don't get an emoji for :mag: :(

lyxal

thejonymyster

@graffe its ok me neither :P

graffe

images.app.goo.gl/ftQzXg3U2L3YGz3v5

3

@thejonymyster phew :)

thejonymyster

that is the gif of all time

graffe

13:33

how do I paste it here?

lyxal

a little bit like that

you want to get the raw address of the image, not the google image link

graffe

that's it! Thanks

thejonymyster

woah, looks like i found whats wrong

not sure what code is responsible yet

graffe

cool

thejonymyster

but one of the top two numbers is getting replaced with a smaller number

graffe

13:38

k

thejonymyster

<: | now im getting 59 as the bigger one

throwing my hat to the ground and stomping on it

graffe

:)

try more trials?

thejonymyster

i should probably hit up that one room for testing code though

@graffe that was after 10k thrice in a row y_y

graffe

hmm

thejonymyster

ill figure it out at some point lol

ill probably be in the firing range about it later

graffe

13:41

:) !

thejonymyster

@thejonymyster pinging myself as a reminder

Razetime

codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/244101/… wondering how to do this without string manip/builtin

mousetail

**LDQ** Right now in CellTail the only output allowed are numbers, anything else is replaced by a `?`. However, this makes it a bit difficult to detect the difference between the initial and final state, since both may have only numbers and leads to infinite loops.

I have 2 basic ideas on how to fix it. First is to have a newtype system. Add a letter after a number and it will become distict from numbers without the letter. However, in the final evaluation it will be the same.

My other idea is to simply print the first element of tuples if any remain in the final state.

Ginger

@NumberBasher there you go, commit made

rember to use Poetry for publishing and such

lyxal

14:31

@Razetime language-specific or general algorithm?

Razetime

general algorithm

lyxal

does flatten, sort and mold to shape work?

Razetime

mold to shape is a privilege builtin

lyxal

but what if you implemented it manually

like replaced all numbers with 0s, and then replaced each 0 with a number from a sorted queue?

Razetime

hmm i guess that is one way

lyxal

14:34

in a recursive manner

Razetime

i'm wondering if there's a way to directly perform a sort on the ragged array

lyxal

Get all multidimensional indices of the ragged array and do a weird sort of selection/insertion sort?

Razetime

multidimensional indices..

lyxal

like multi-dimensional enumeration

Razetime

yeah i was just uhh

lyxal

14:38

[2, [3, [1, []]]] -> [[0], [1, 0], [1, 1, 0]]

that sort of thing

and then sort the indices in a sort of insertion sort way

so it'd be like [[1, 1, 0], [0], [1, 0]]

Razetime

sounds so vyxalish. probably the mold is shorter

lyxal

wrong

Jellyish

ŒĖ and ŒJ in Jelly are Multidimensional enumerate and Multidimensional indices of z

that's where I got the idea from

(the general idea, not a language specific idea)

Razetime

11

Q: Get multi-dimensional indices in a list

Given a matrix of non-negative numbers (of arbitrary dimension) and a number, get all multi-dimensional indices of the number in that list. For example, let's say we have the list [[0,1,0],[1,0,0]] and the number 1. In the first list, we see one 1 at the second index. If we were using one-based i...

code-golf array

loool

PyGamer0

in flax, 25 secs ago, by PyGamer0

i absolutely have no idea on how to implement psuedostranding

btw did i tell y'all that i am making a game in unity :p

Ginger

14:53

you what

PyGamer0

im making a game in unity

Aiden Chow

@graffe not sure what u mean by early, u can take it at whatever grade u want

Ginger

huh

Aiden Chow

@graffe 9th grade is like 13-14 yrs old

@PyGamer0 yo nice, 2d or 3d?

Transcript for