The Nineteenth Byte

Jo King

00:24

it's a little disturbing that the first time a new user loads a stack exchange site, a good three quarters of the screen is blocked by useless nothings

Zion mycelia adamancy

@JoKing it's better than when a new user visits stackoverflow.com

Jo King

yeah, i guess 75% is better than 100%+no obvious way to get to the actual site

OldSandboxPosts

01:00

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Where does the seesaw balance? [code-golf], Change the Temperature of Swatchlings, Round it up Nicely

Aiden Chow

01:30

@emanresuA yep that looks valid, i use ans sometimes too, especially when i need to use actions

emanresu A

06:26

CMQ: Could Github Copilot be considered a "language"?

lyxal

Perhaps. You'd have to make sure the completions were deterministic across every account

emanresu A

07:39

Idea: Time-travelling self-modifying esolang that loops through paradoxes.

mousetail

What would happen in case of a paradox? Which state would be saved and which would be new and how? I'm having a hard time imagining how that's different from a normal loop

lyxal

Honestly I'd be more interested in a Patrick's Parabox style esolang. Because I'd love to see some infinity and epsilon while golfing

mousetail

Oh that would be cool

Aiden Chow

whats that

mousetail

I want to see baba is you used to solve some challenges

Aiden Chow

07:54

:| whats that???

mousetail

Both are puzzle games

Patricks Parabox is about recursive boxes inside of boxes, and if you have a box at the edge of itself and exit it, it's a paradox and you enter the special "infinity" box

Baba is you is about pushing words together to change the rules of the game

Neil

08:28

someone needs to watch more Real Civil Engineer

mousetail

I don't know why I still watch that guy, every video disappoints. It cuts out the only parts I actually care about every time.

lyxal

14:09

@Seggan me from at least 2 years ago

PyGamer0

15:30

in flax, 5 hours ago, by PyGamer0

F[2,3,4]F5

@Zionmyceliaadamancy do you have a good idea as to what i can do with that unparseable nilad in the middle of the monads?

Zion mycelia adamancy

@PyGamer0 Don't you already append the nilad to the chain's argument?

Unrelated String

if you're looking to abandon your general scheme of quasi-stranding i'd say maybe it could be treated as a monad for indexing into the list or something of that sort

Zion mycelia adamancy

Alternatively, you could give every monad a dyadic function that only applies when an "unparseable" nilad is found

Unrelated String

ahah

that could be interesting

might actually be useful fairly frequently in some cases, even assuming all of the aliased dyads exist as independent digraphs already

PyGamer0

@Zionmyceliaadamancy its was an idea, now i am think of peusdostranding

@Zionmyceliaadamancy i didnt understand that, can you give some examples?

Zion mycelia adamancy

15:51

@PyGamer0 Let's say D is the double monad, then it could also have a "unparseable dyadic" function such as "double left then add right". Meaning that 5D gives 10, 5D3 gives 13 (as the 3 is currently "unparseable", so we use the "unparseable dyadic" behaviour) and 5D3D gives 26

Allows you to implement a few shortcuts for commonly used dyadic patterns

PyGamer0

ooooh nice idea

Very noce

Seggan

16:23

Is this valid?

seems to be a code snippet

mousetail

Not really the point but I'd be in favor of allowing snippets for kolmogorov-complexity questions

Unrelated String

kolmos have less of why snippets are disallowed but i feel like there's no reason to allow them on them either

Seggan

^

Unrelated String

and i assume you'd still want to forbid output being through setting a known variable

mousetail

Yes

Zion mycelia adamancy

16:36

Personally, I have no issue with snippets, so long as the I/O isn't via variables

mousetail

Either a function that returns something or a snippet that prints to standard out

I agree IO with variables is easily abusable

Zion mycelia adamancy

But, at that point, what's the difference between a snippet and an already allowed format?

mousetail

Just the fixed number of bytes per language for a function declaration

that will be the same every time

Seggan

@mousetail not exactly

Zion mycelia adamancy

Really, the only difference I can see is omitting print in Python answers that are just strings

Seggan

16:38

depends on the function args and return values

mousetail

A kolmognorov complexity probem by definion has no args

Seggan

true

but returns values matter

i.e. fun s():String vs fun s():Int

mousetail

I think snippets should print the output rather than assigning to a variable, since variable IO is still disallowed

Zion mycelia adamancy

e.g. allowing f'{int(input())+2}' instead of having to print it

Seggan

so what ure saying is "snippets are allowed as long as they dont break any other rules"?

tbh isnt the variable io rule applies only to snippets?

mousetail

16:41

@Seggan Basically, yes. Some of the other rules may need to be made a bit more explicit

I think all the exceptions are covered by the spirit of existing rules

Seggan

anyone feel like writing up an answer on meta?

Zion mycelia adamancy

My biggest problem with snippets is actually defining them

Unrelated String

^^^^

snippets don't exist as a language concept

Seggan

true

Zion mycelia adamancy

What actually is a snippet? Anything that isn't a full program or function? If so, how can a snippet actually accomplish a challenge's task without being a full program?

Seggan

16:45

i define a snippet as any non-function that cannot be run by itself

mousetail

The next level down from a function in a actual language is a expression or statement

Zion mycelia adamancy

The only way I can see it doing that is by allowing I/O as variables, which is a different discussion

Seggan

@Zionmyceliaadamancy the second question is what puts me off snippets

Unrelated String

also if anyone's seriously considering this note that this would have to apply only to challenges posted after some cutoff date

mousetail

@Zionmyceliaadamancy IMHO you should only be able to take input maybe from STDIN but defiantly not variables

Unrelated String

16:46

@Seggan the question then becomes, what does it get to need in order to be run

Seggan

ususally any main wrapper

Zion mycelia adamancy

@mousetail Restricting I/O to only STDIN is perhaps the worst ruling on I/O imo

Seggan

sometimes extra code

mousetail

Or similar

as long as it's not variables

Seggan

^

Zion mycelia adamancy

16:47

The best way to do I/O in my view is to allow any natural way of taking input and providing output in that language. E.g. function returns, alert in JS, inserting into the code for ///, CLA for Jelly, etc.

Unrelated String

@Seggan what i'm trying to get at is if there's constant known boilerplate for making a snipped usable, just... submit the boilerplate

instead of enshrining it in meta somehow

mousetail

The idea is basically just to make languages where function definitions are very long seem more competetive

Zion mycelia adamancy

Namely, let the people who use the language decide on whether a specific way of taking input is a) natural, and b) valid

Unrelated String

a good example of this is the jelly community just sort of collectively deciding that you can't use ³ for 100 in function submissions even though they are usable in programs that take no command line arguments because it just seems wrong

Wheat Wizard

@Zionmyceliaadamancy Honestly except for the fact that it's disruptive I'd be in favour of restriction IO to only STDIN STDOUT, with the assumption that people will make trivial wrappers to get other ways to work.

I do legitimately think we should get rid of the special rules for ///

There's no reason to have it and it's just weird.

Unrelated String

16:55

as in define a new language that inserts inputs into /// code then runs it? honestly yeah that would be a good idea

Wheat Wizard

Yeah.

DLosc

Did you mean: itflabtijtslwi?

Zion mycelia adamancy

@WheatWizard My problem with this is Jelly, where because of it's limited implicit I/O, and the way that it can auto read from STDIN at times, means that changing the way you take input in a challenge can be a genuine golfing technique

Seggan

@UnrelatedString no

@Zionmyceliaadamancy this

DLosc

@Seggan Or make a wrapper "language" that automatically adds the boilerplate, if you don't like having it in your bytecount.

Seggan

17:08

what im saying is that there is no common boilerplate for most submissions

im against snippets, if my positon is unclear

Unrelated String

i am deeply confused considering that is also my position

DLosc

@Seggan Oh, sorry. I misunderstood due to arriving in the middle of the conversation.

Wheat Wizard

If there's not a common boiler plate then I'm not sure it should actually be left out.

Seggan

IMO, a valid submission is any submission that is invokable, that is, functions are invokable, full programs are invokable from the command line, but snippets are not (except from a REPL which we disallow)

DLosc

I think we do allow REPL submissions, they just have to be marked as a separate language.

Seggan

17:11

i asked a while ago and someone said REPL was not allowed

Zion mycelia adamancy

Yeah, Python 3 is different to Python 3 REPL

Seggan

if REPL is allowed, why dont we see more Java REPL, System.out.println("Hello, World!") answers?

in any case, my definition still holds if a repl is different from the language

DLosc

I don't know, actually. It would sometimes save bytes for Python, too--you could essentially write a full program but wouldn't need print().

(in some cases)

Unrelated String

is there a java repl

anyhow i think the main reason there aren't a ton of repl answers is usually they're trivial variations of normal answers in the non-repl language; for the most part you see them when there's some deeper quirk at play

Seggan

@UnrelatedString JShell

docs.oracle.com/javase/9/jshell/…

Steffan

18:00

@DLosc There's also _ in python repl, like in this answer

LYaL Nominations

18:20

0

A: Language nominations for the "Learn You a Lang for Great Good" chat event

Prolog Prolog is a logical and declarative programming language. It's quite interesting. From TutorialsPoint: Prolog or PROgramming in LOGics is a logical and declarative programming language. It is one major example of the fourth generation language that supports the declarative programming par...

Seggan

18:34

Suggestion: delete LYAL langs that have been learned

DLosc

Yeah, might be worth it. I think the original idea was that we might repeat languages, but so far there have been enough interesting nominations that that hasn't been a real consideration.

Deadcode

19:00

@DLosc I just realized, in Regenerate, (a!b) is the same as (?>(a|b)), if it had (?>...)

Well, I guess not the same, because it can still "backtrack" into whichever alternative was chosen.

Unrelated String

@DLosc also if we were to repeat languages we'd probably want separate nominations for the repeats to vote on anyhow

Steffan

Apparently you don't get rep for upvotes on meta?

Or am I the only one that doesn't?

DLosc

That's correct, no one does.

Zion mycelia adamancy

@Steffan Nope, meta cannot change your rep

The only exception is on MSE, which is a weird blend of a main and a meta site

Steffan

oh ok

well on MSE you have your own separate rep

DLosc

19:06

@Deadcode Is (?>...) "match ... and never backtrack into it once it's been matched"?

Deadcode

@DLosc Yes.

Wheat Wizard

What is regenerate?

Is it a regex thing?

Deadcode

@WheatWizard An esolang made by DLosc, which instead of matching things, generates (prints) all the expressions the regex can match.

Wheat Wizard

Ah yeah, makes sense

Seggan

basically inverse regex :P

Wheat Wizard

19:08

Because what you are describing is basically a prolog cut.

DLosc

Yep. That's why I used the ! symbol for it.

Zion mycelia adamancy

@Steffan Roughly how much rep you'd have if you did get rep from meta upvotes

flawr

@caird what happened to your name!

Zion mycelia adamancy

Don't take downvotes into effect, so is an overestimate (assuming you've never done a tag wiki edit on meta)

DLosc

@Zionmyceliaadamancy Wow, that's a lot.

Zion mycelia adamancy

19:10

@flawr Tis temporary :P

Steffan

I'd have 6550 rep if meta gave me rep, but since it doesn't, I have 6680. Very very sus

Zion mycelia adamancy

@Steffan Keep in mind that SEDE only updates once a week on Sundays

Wheat Wizard

Does it add your main rep or is it just the amount you would get from meta?

Zion mycelia adamancy

So any rep you've earned this week isn't included

@WheatWizard Adds your main rep, so gives the total rep you'd have

DLosc

@Zionmyceliaadamancy Ohh, okay. I retract my previous statement. :P

Wheat Wizard

19:12

Ah yeah, I was thinking I probably didn't have over 100k in meta votes

Steffan

Removing the + @UserRep gives 200

Not that much :P

Wheat Wizard

Uh that's probably not what you wanted to do.

Zion mycelia adamancy

I'd have roughly 17k rep from meta upvotes :P

Steffan

Well I have very few sandbox posts and basically nothing else except LYAL and LOTM nominations

Zion mycelia adamancy

@Steffan Given that you have 9 meta posts, you can probably go through your posts, count upvotes and downvotes and get an exact value

pxeger

19:14

I'd get about 3000

Steffan

From what I know, I don't even have any downvotes :P

Oh indeed I do

I'd have 318 from meta then

Zion mycelia adamancy

@Steffan You'd only have 186, as 3 of your posts are CW, so wouldn't earn rep

Wheat Wizard

I'd have about 13K.

Seggan

id have more rep on meta than main lol

3587

Zion mycelia adamancy

@Seggan That can't be right, you have 16 posts on meta, so you'd be averaging 220 rep (or 22 upvotes) per post

Remember, the query adds your main rep to your hypothetical meta rep

Seggan

19:32

ah

oops

that gives me 700

flawr

20:05

@Zionmyceliaadamancy by the time I get used to it you're already gonna have it changed back!

back in my day people would change their username back and fro all day long

pxeger

20:19

Cursed zsh finding of the day: anything between a null byte and a space is ignored

ato.pxeger.com/…

Aiden Chow

ummm i just found this account called sockpuppet683 that link to my acct? is someone trying to pretend that i have sockpuppet or what

Sockpuppet683, -

90 6

oh

nvm

pxeger

> http://stackoverflow.com/users/current

Aiden Chow

im dumb dumb

yeah

i just noticed too lol

pxeger

@pxeger (techincally, it's anything after a null byte in each word of a command)

It does make sense because null bytes terminate command line arguments...

but why would zsh allow that in code?!?!

flawr

@AidenChow they just express their love for you!

Zion mycelia adamancy

20:20

@flawr the trick is to just pronounce it as "caird coinheringaahing" :P

flawr

yeah good luck with that! can't even pronounce my own name!

Aiden Chow

why do they even have a link stackoverflow.com/users/current anyways

i feel like im gonna get trolled by that every once in a while, like why do they have a link to my profile?? lol

Seggan

@Zionmyceliaadamancy in my brain its "caird coerinjagdkasfing" :P

4

with "jagdkasf" being some unintelligible palatal sounds

Zion mycelia adamancy

Ngl, for me, it's just "caird" :P

flawr

@Seggan .... aaaaaay macarena

DLosc

20:33

My brain keeps going back and forth between "co-in-hearing" and "co-in-herring," but otherwise I think I've got the pronunciation down.

Seggan

@flawr ...?

flawr

remember the song?

and if so, do you remember any of the lyrics apart from ay macarena?:)

Seggan

@flawr no

flawr

@Seggan ---------------D:

DLosc

20:58

@flawr #only90skids

Zion mycelia adamancy

DLosc

@Seggan I think this might be the original version

DLosc

21:39

@NoHaxJustRadvylf Wikipedia suggests that the fête nationale française, which I know by the name Bastille Day, can also be referred to as "14 Juillet."

Adám

Does anyone know of an editor or IDE with a gear icon (⚙) in the lower left corner, which, when clicked, opens the application's settings?

emanresu A

I believe vscode does

New Posts

0

Q: Implement pow with overflow checking

Implement a function or program which raises x to the power of y. Inputs are 16-bit signed integers. That is, both are in the range [-32768, 32767]. The output should be in the same range. I chose this range because it should make it possible to do exhaustive testing to ensure all edge-cases are ...

code-golf math

Unrelated String

22:02

@Seggan you're joking right

Seggan

@UnrelatedString no

Aiden Chow

@NewPosts for this, the power cant be <0 or else itll be non-integer right? not missing any edge cases?

Steffan

22:24

@emanresuA Clikcing it doesnt open the settings though, it opens this

Aiden Chow

@AidenChow ah shoot theres 1^(negative num), i forgot

TKirishima

22:50

Hello guys!
Sorry for the inconvenience!
I finished a few days ago a code golf site that consists in doing code golf challenges every week, with each week a new challenge available in 21 languages!
Feel free to have a look and tell me what you think about it, if you found any bugs, or if you have any improvements!
The URL is https://week.golf

Adám

23:02

@TKirishima "Click HERE to see the list of 20 languages." — HERE should have cursor:pointer. Also, the list is a bit hard to understand if one doesn't know all programming language logos. Some text labels (or even links to Wikipedia pages) would be nice.

I believe the normal thing to write is "20+", not "+20" when you mean ">20".

TKirishima

You're right! I'm going to do that ! :)

Adám

"as few Bytes as possible" — "bytes" should be with lowercase "b".

@TKirishima Clicking on the profile icon at the very bottom, briefly shows the profile page, then redirects to the main page.

(also, it shouldn't open a new tab)

TKirishima

Yes

(also, it shouldn't open a new tab) Why not ?

Adám

Bad practice, especially when it goes to your own site. I can always open in a new tab using Ctrl+click, but I cannot open in the same tab if you specify not to. Don't dictate my browsing workflow!

TKirishima

Ok ! :) I'll fix that!

Adám

23:09

It seems that you are in France. Are you sure it is OK according to GDPR to collect personal data on AWS?

> The site uses "cookies" techniques to process statistics and information on traffic, to facilitate navigation and to improve the service for the user's comfort, who can oppose the recording of these "cookies" by configuring his navigation software.

I don't think ^ is GDPR compliant.

emanresu A

Also, gender-neutral pronouns plz

Adám

It has to be as easy to opt out as it is to opt in.

@emanresuA At least it says:

> Mr/Mrs Axel DEREPAS

emanresu A

@Adám Meant this

Adám

Oh. It speaks about the user as "he" in other places too.

@TKirishima week.golf/leaderboard.php has a broken img in the top right.

The intro text under "Point system" on week.golf/question.php needs some help.

> You can vote for the language that you want to be in WeekGolf > here <

TKirishima

- Yes I'm in France
- I'll delete some part about cookies. I wrote that in case I wanted to do stats one day, but I don't do it. The only things I collect are infos for connection like email adress/github/discord/so name depending on how the user logged and his scores.

Adám

23:16

Please use standard formatting for hyperlinks, i.e underline and/or blue, not custom stuff like CAPITALS or > angle brackets <.

> points ?

Wheat Wizard

The animated icons are fancy, but they are too much. It also would be nice to have a tooltips to explain what they are since they aren't really all that obvious.

Adám

As opposed to French, English does not use spaces between the last word and the question mark.

TKirishima

French doesn't too I think

Adám

It does.

TKirishima

The animated icons are fancy, but they are too much.
> Received!

Adám

23:18

> And even if it is marked "JavaScript" so that a maximum of people understand it[, it] is rather NodeJS.

Insert bracketed text ^

Wheat Wizard

The per language leaderboard seems to display "0 player" for every language despite the fact that I think there are some players.

TKirishima

Wheat, not for the moment. Because points will be given at the end of the week

Wheat Wizard

But points are displayed on the global leaderboard?

Adám

@TKirishima I set my username to "Adám" but now it shows as "Adám"!

I now changed to to "Adám" again, and that seemed to work.

TKirishima

@Adám Oh ok

@WheatWizard There is points by languages and total points

Adám

23:23

Why is my email shown as 72 random characters?

How do I change country?

Unrelated String

i feel like there's no real advantage to delayed updates of that sort
i'd also recommend just generally having per-week leaderboards and maybe some longer windows versus just all-time

Adám

When I add a language to the languages' vote, it doesn't show up on the list until I refresh the page.

TKirishima

@Adám Yes

Adám

How do I add a logo for the language?

TKirishima

@Adám Because you didn't log with one

Adám

23:26

Oh.

TKirishima

@Adám You can use a VPN or try to know how the requests works :p

Adám

Oh, so it auto-detect where I'm physically located right now. Fine. Will it update when I come home from my vacation?

TKirishima

@Adám You can't. I just added them :/

@Adám Yup!

Adám

@TKirishima OK. White and colourful (green) versions of the APL logo are available at github.com/abrudz/logos/tree/main/apl

TKirishima

I'll add it tomorrow! I have a lot of issues to fix as you mentioned! :p

Adám

23:29

Yup, including the title of this week's challenge; "Fibonnaci" should be "Fibonacci".

TKirishima

;-; yes

Adám

One of your supported languages is "K". What exactly do you mean by that?

TKirishima

This implementation of K: codeberg.org/ngn/k

Adám

OK.

TKirishima

@UnrelatedString Concerning Week Leaderboard, when you scroll down in the problem of the week, there is the Leaderboard of this problem.

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