The Nineteenth Byte

SegFaultPlus4

14:25

I have a challenge idea

mathcat

~~good for you~~

SegFaultPlus4

my second ever challenge

mathcat

nice

SegFaultPlus4

hopefully this gets to the same level as my first (+12)

it involves this

how do i get to the sandbox

mathcat

uhm

545

Q: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

This "sandbox" is a place where Code Golf users can get feedback on prospective challenges they wish to post to main. This is useful because writing a clear and fully specified challenge on your first try can be difficult, and there is a much better chance of your challenge being well received if...

why did a fricking answer get more votes than the parker square question

I don't understand voters

graffe

14:37

voting is often not rational

SegFaultPlus4

@mathcat don't ask me

i have an avearge of 2 o my posts

so i clearly have no idea

mathcat

(totally not trying to get you parker squared)

PyGamer0

Is there a challenge like: "Output the next generation of Game of Life?"

SegFaultPlus4

@PyGamer0 there's several

PyGamer0

i just want "input matrix => output next generation"

graffe

14:57

anyone ever used flask (python) here?

mathcat

me

graffe

@mathcat what do you think of it?

mathcat

@graffe and uh vyxal gang I guess

@graffe nice

graffe

cool... I might learn it

mathcat

it's really simple

graffe

15:00

that sounds perfect for me

mathcat

django and stuff is too complicated for me

user

@lyxal smh ginger microwave cold food before eating

PyGamer0

@graffe it is neat and kinda easy ...

graffe

15:16

@PyGamer0 cool!

that sounds great

any answers here using pygame zero?

caird coinheringaahing

Oooh, looks like this is live

graffe

it seems no pygame zero answers??

SegFaultPlus4

@graffe what is a pygame (0)

graffe

@SegFaultPlus4 pygame-zero.readthedocs.io/en/stable

SegFaultPlus4

ok cool

mathcat

15:36

@cairdcoinheringaahing wait what

I am confused

I just refreshed the page and then some sort of dropdown replaced it

I thought testing would only be on SE?

caird coinheringaahing

15:47

Yeah, I think it's now gone out live to the rest of the network

PyGamer0

@graffe no?

and i dont use pygame ... even though my name has it as a substring

graffe

:) it's fraud!

PyGamer0

i use pyglet ... much easier to learn

mathcat

Python+Gamer+Zero

PyGamer0

yeah

What does this calculate?

Bgil Midol

16:06

604.0

Ginger

that Ukrainian flag challenge is vastly more popular then I expected

mathcat

because of obvious reasons

Ginger

23 hours ago, by Ginger

capitalizing on wars for reputation go brr /s

mathcat

but don't you dare to overtake me on rep

Ginger

muahaha

i'm only 562 behind

mathcat

16:13

> only

Ginger

correct

idk how my answer to my own question got 10 upvotes but it did

mathcat

@mathcat - ~~idiot~~ not-so-smort-person, 2022

Unrelated String

i feel like on top of people wanting to answer it just because ukraine it's also simpler and more permissive than the average graphical output challenge

Ginger

it's two squares

easy peasy

mathcat

true

otherwise I wouldn't have answered in scratch

no offense but

I don't like scratch

Ginger

16:17

I can do that with Unicode:
🟦🟦🟦
🟨🟨🟨

mathcat

> The image must be [...] at least 78 by 52 pixels.

- random person

PyGamer0

i should probably not be awake now...

mathcat

Feb 4 at 1:23, by emanresu A

Go to sleep in your fridge, there'll be a lot of white noise.

PyGamer0

...and my brother is saying hi

mathcat

hi pygamer0's brother!

PyGamer0

16:19

> hi

> how are you

mathcat

I am doing joe.

PyGamer0

> joe MAMA

Ginger

Mar 15 at 13:38, by Ginger Industries

9 mins ago, by Ginger Industries

1 min ago, by Ginger Industries

not funny

didn't laugh

PyGamer0

the quoted messages are my brother's

> hi guise

> i like friends

mathcat

@Ginger :(

PyGamer0

16:22

ok im gone

mathcat

I thought i'd get him

PyGamer0

throws powder and disappears

o/

mathcat

\o

Ginger

\o

graffe

16:36

trying to use xgboost for the first time. Has anyone here ever used it?

Ginger

Lord, forgive me for the thing I have created:

x:i<I
w<l<10
 v ^<x
 ?<!<%<:x
 vv   ^<3
 vP<"Fizz"
 vC
 ?<!<%<:x
 vv   ^<5
 vP<"Buzz"
 vC
 ?<!<%<:x
 vv  ^<15
 vP<"FizzBuzz"
 vC
 P<:x

Radvylf Programs

17:14

@ophact The problem is very rarely voters on this site, it's drive-by voting from the HNQs

ophact

Oh yeah, I forgot about HNQ.

Radvylf Programs

People see the first few answers posted since they've had more time to receive legitimate upvotes, so they upvote those even more. Answers that look cool to the average programmer also get lots of upvotes regardless of how trivial they are

ophact

But if it weren't for HNQ, I wouldn't have known that this website even existed.

Radvylf Programs

I wish there was a requirement that in order to upvote, you need 10 rep earned on this site

ophact

That would be very useful.

Ginger

17:16

here's a mirror machine:

Radvylf Programs

Honestly not really sure what the point of the association bonus is

Ginger

a:i<I
b:i<I
a:+<:a
   ^<1
b:-<:b
   ^<1
?<:a
 v
 P:a
 a:0
?<!<=<:b
 v    ^<1
 P:b
w<!<=<:b
 v   ^<0
 P:b
 b:-<:b
    ^<1
a:i<I
b:i<I
P<-<:a
   ^<:b
P<"ABC"

ophact

@RadvylfPrograms It allows you to comment and chat, which is really the only purpose.

Ginger

that looks wrong because of chat's fake monospace formatting

Radvylf Programs

I think you only need 20 rep on one site to be able to chat on all of them, regardless of the association bonus

So really just commenting

ophact

17:17

Answering protected questions requires 10 rep earned on this site, so why not for upvoting too?

Radvylf Programs

@Ginger Do you not have chat monospace fix?

Ginger

nope

Radvylf Programs

dew it

Ginger

57 secs ago, by Ginger

nope

Radvylf Programs

D:

ophact

17:19

@Ginger How do you do the nesting thing?

Ginger

send the link of the previous message

Radvylf Programs

You just paste a permalink to the message you're quoting

ophact

1 min ago, by Ginger

57 secs ago, by Ginger

nope

Should we really start this again?

pxeger

if you're going to test it out, please go to the sandbox

ophact

Okay, sorry, should I remove the above message?

Radvylf Programs

17:21

No, it's fine

pxeger

a single one isn't really a problem

Radvylf Programs

It'd be a bigger waste of time and space to move a couple of messages than to leave them :p

Bgil Midol

ophact

Yeah, what happened there?

Bgil Midol

I don't remember it was like this?

Radvylf Programs

17:21

Ooh, did we get that change now?

ophact

Another step backwards for Stack Exchange UI

Radvylf Programs

I know they'd announced it a while back

ophact

First the strange question summaries, now this new sorting menu. What's next?

pxeger

what's wrong with this sort menu? It's no better or worse than the old one really

ophact

Click on it to see the obviously unstyled <select> tag

Well they added padding and rounded corners, but..

that's pretty much it

pxeger

17:24

Who cares? It's native UI, so will have far better UX than any custom component

You can't style the <option>s, btw

Radvylf Programs

This is much more of a functionality change than a UI one IIRC

We just haven't gotten the functionality yet

ophact

They didn't have to use <select> tags, which frankly look rather primitive no matter how much styling you add

The old sort menu was just a bunch of buttons

pxeger

53 secs ago, by pxeger

Who cares? It's native UI, so will have far better UX than any custom component

Radvylf Programs

Styling form elements (aside from buttons) is so janky in HTML/CSS

And the default ones are usually pretty hideous

ophact

Soon they'll change the question sort mode (newest, active, unanswered, bountied, etc)

@RadvylfPrograms Especially the <button>

they look like something from the 1990s

Radvylf Programs

17:26

That one's a lot easier to customize than the rest, luckily

ophact

Yep

Radio buttons are unchangeable if I'm right?

Radvylf Programs

But good luck doing anything fancy with ranges, checkboxes, radio buttons, etc.

Yeah

pxeger

@ophact it depends on browser and OS

Radvylf Programs

I think there might be some like, :-webkit or :-moz or :-ms stuff for some of those, but still

ophact

I remember someone saying "let's make custom radio buttons" and I thought he meant applying CSS to the <input type="radio">s, but in actuality, he hid them with display: none and made a bunch of other elements which looked like radio buttons but were just divs or something, and would be filled in when clicked. So cumbersome.

CSS is in huge need of an update

pxeger

17:27

on macOS everything has a consistent theme with the OS UI, because Apple put too much work into polishing it

ophact

If a new version of CSS is released, hope they add the option to center a div easily

pxeger

@ophact shkspr.mobi/blog/2021/01/…

@ophact flexbox provides a very easy way to do that

I sometimes want to just write * { display: flex; } in my CSS

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Resolve a Super Auto Pets Round In Super Auto Pets, players build teams of animals that face off in battles to the death unconsciousness. Each animal has abilities that affect the outcome of battles, but the main method of resolving conflict is by the pets lining up and attacking each other until...

ophact

@pxeger Guess I'll try that, then

Radvylf Programs

@pxeger You're taking that way out of context

It's about how important it is for a site to function with the bare minimum of browsers, especially if the site provides essential services

It's not saying "ugly UI is good UI"

pxeger

17:33

I just think that using a browser native UI has benefits which outweigh "it looks rather primitive"

and that post illustrates the benefits of browser native UI

Radvylf Programs

I don't think it does

Ginger

P<+<"P"
v  ^<'^'
P<"\""

Radvylf Programs

The main point of failure with the button-based UI is the JS

ophact

@pxeger Perhaps in that sense...

but not from a financial point of view

more primitive = less retention = less ad clicks = less money

Radvylf Programs

Since without any CSS it's still perfectly easy to see what it does

And guess what...you need JS for those buttons to do anything in the first place

Same with the select

Honestly the buttons work better than the select from a bare-minimum-browser perspective

Because you can make them fall back to links without JS

EphraimRuttenberg

17:35

hi would anyone mind taking a look at my sandbox proposal? its the most recent one in here

Radvylf Programs

Looks good, although you might want to rearrange some of the flavortext so that people can more quickly see what the actual task is

EphraimRuttenberg

alright

Radvylf Programs

I'd be worried this is a close dupe of something, but no clue how I'd search for it

EphraimRuttenberg

yeah i wouldnt be surprised if the same concept has been done before. tough to search i agree

New Posts

0

Q: Calculate the highest possible period oscillator in Conway's Game of Life

Input: a whole positive number greater than 4 Output: A whole positive number that describes the highest possible period an oscillator could have inside a square space of size (input)x(input) in a "life" grid that follows the rules of Conway's Game of Life. The oscillator never leaves this area t...

code-golf code-challenge cellular-automata game-of-life

graffe

18:14

this is driving me crazy. I have copied a function and changed its name but it gives a different answer! Could someone please save me! bpa.st/EJLQ

objective3 is the same function as objective4 isn't it??

Bgil Midol

@graffe is that the original code?

graffe

@BgilMidol yes. It's test code that makes no sense to me at all

the same function is giving a different answer

oh I see what I did!

idiot :(

pxeger

<         "colsample_bytree": colsample_bytree,
---
>         "colsample_bylevel": colsample_bytree,

graffe

thank you so much

that was driving me insane

SegFaultPlus4

18:39

^

paste this into anything that can render LaTex and enjoy

what would happen if i sent a message 57 KB long

emanresu A

@Ginger I use IDLE

vscode's python extension is pretty bad for collections of large files

pxeger

@SegFaultPlus4 it won't let you send anything longer than 500 characters

emanresu A

@Ginger You'll almost never use that lol

SegFaultPlus4

@pxeger i tried to quick-send it before it could stop me, but the wall is omnipresent

emanresu A

@RadvylfPrograms Yeah, mine's at +47 right now

pxeger

18:48

damn

SegFaultPlus4

@Ginger where is it

pxeger

@SegFaultPlus4 it's this: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/60697047#60697047

emanresu A

@RadvylfPrograms IME, if you understand how one site works you generally understand how the rest work

SegFaultPlus4

@pxeger and what language is it

emanresu A

So you'd do better stuff

pxeger

18:49

no idea

emanresu A

I've only had questions closed on SO

(after I came here)

I still don't understand SO

SegFaultPlus4

@emanresuA yes, like getting me to 1500 rep

emanresu A

Is this 2d Etch @Ginger?

SegFaultPlus4

@emanresuA it's a toss-up between jQuery and C++

emanresu A

Oh no

SegFaultPlus4

18:53

Python was built on C< not C++, so that's safe

Ginger

@emanresuA it's a weird theoretical language I came up with

pxeger

@emanresuA probably jQuery, tbh

because it kinda spurred the boom of frontend development

and the modern frontend development ecosystem is horrible

ophact

@emanresuA SO is a website full of arrogant people

Bgil Midol

@emanresuA jquery

emanresu A

Although without jQuery, we wouldn't have this

ophact

18:55

@BgilMidol I agree

SegFaultPlus4

so, 1.5 votes for jQuery, 1 for PHP, .5 for C++

ophact

Vanilla JavaScript (at least the DOM part) is much better IMO than a bunch of dollar signs

Radvylf Programs

I vote PHP

ophact

I love in particular .querySelector(...).insertAdjacentHTML

pxeger

PHP is definitely worse than jQuery

Bgil Midol

18:56

@ophact actually PHP

ophact

Yeah... but it's decreasing in popularity,

SegFaultPlus4

that's 2.5 for jQuery and 2 for PHP

pxeger

but I'd rather erase the effects of jQuery on the timeline than those of PHP

Radvylf Programs

The entirety of front-end web development's scripting stuff, whether vanilla, jQuery, Angular, React, etc., is a huge mess

ophact

@SegFaultPlus4 out of 5 or 10 or 20 or what?

@RadvylfPrograms but vanilla is the best out of those

SegFaultPlus4

18:56

@BgilMidol it is too late to undo this operation

ophact

I hate frameworks, except ExpressJS

SegFaultPlus4

@ophact out of 5

ophact

and if NodeJS counts as a framework, then that's another exception

Radvylf Programs

jQuery isn't particularly offensive, vanilla's just plain awful (but still not too offensive)

emanresu A

@ophact Think about it from their perspective - they're trying to help

Radvylf Programs

18:57

If we had a good way to work with the DOM in plain JS half of the world's pain and anguish would be gone by now

5

Ginger

art

emanresu A

They've got pretty bad tools to deal with the huge flow of incoming questions

(Vote limits, which make no real sense on SO)

ophact

@emanresuA Yeah, but they downvote questions they don't understand (think a Python newbie downvoting a question about generators because "it's too complex")

emanresu A

@Ginger

Uncaught TypeError: Error resolving module specifier “three”. Relative module specifiers must start with “./”, “../” or “/”.

SegFaultPlus4

someone star my it is too late to undo this operation message, it'll be funny looking back

@emanresuA lOl

Ginger

19:00

@emanresuA hard refresh

SegFaultPlus4

exactly one of my starred messages contains a rickroll, find it

emanresu A

@Ginger restarts internet from arpanet

ophact

@RadvylfPrograms What I don't like about vanilla is that the method names are extremely long (addEventListener, getElementsByTagName, etc)

Ginger

@emanresuA too hard

3

wait no

no no no

SegFaultPlus4

@emanresuA you have confused hard refresh with hardest refresh

Radvylf Programs

19:01

@ophact Yeah, that's a big part

SegFaultPlus4

oops

ophact

I also don't like it when tutorials tell me to use createElement, one of the most ridiculous methods ever created. (The objects for elements are terrible.)

I just insert HTML instead.

Ginger

@Ginger do not take this out of context

emanresu A

@Ginger Are you sure you've deployed it? I've cleared my cache and hard reloaded...

SegFaultPlus4

@Ginger watch me

Ginger

19:03

@emanresuA I am sure

Radvylf Programs

@ophact That's an extremely bad idea

Ginger

status-norepro

Radvylf Programs

Using innerHTML does all sorts of stuff, like cause performance issues and destroy the state of form elements, that createElement avoids

ophact

Not innerHTML

SegFaultPlus4

@Ginger [status-invalid-tag]

@Ginger how did u create a tag

ophact

19:05

but insertAdjacentHTML instead

Bgil Midol

@SegFaultPlus4 [tag:tag]

tag

ophact

[tag:tag]

Ginger

[tag:[tag: tag]]

hm

3 more upvotes and I'm repcapped

pxeger

Anyone else get salty when their answer gets fewer upvotes than a worse-scoring answer (in the same language)?

ophact

Not always

Perhaps you did the naive way while the other answerer demonstrated an interesting approach (albeit with more bytes)

Radvylf Programs

19:10

Getting salty about CGCC kinda goes against the point of CGCC

hyper-neutrino

i only really get annoyed when a port of my answer gets more upvotes

or just in general when I feel that the scores don't accurately reflect the effort/quality regardless of if it's my answer but that's purely subjective

emanresu A

@pxeger Yes

Ginger

TIL

emanresu A

I'm already repcapped and accumulating a couple of upvotes per hour

Ginger

wot

emanresu A

19:16

That SVG answer of mine is ridiculous

Ginger

you mean the one I disqualified?

That one?

emanresu A

Fine, I'll fix it :P

I was trying to find another emoji that had blue and yellow in the correct places yesterday

Ginger

for some reason I can't find it

emanresu A

Got deleted

Ginger

ah

emanresu A

19:19

But it's surprisingly hard and I might have to yeet in a transform:rotate(180)

Ginger

I need to ask more questions

why am I here?

what drugs was the inventor of PHP taking?

hyper-neutrino

all of them

Ginger

What significance did lyxal attach to this message in this video?

emanresu A

I'm going to say words that have never been uttered in the history of humanity:

> I wish I had windows

(Because it renders emoji like 🥲 with a consistent blue)

Ginger

hmm

Feb 21 at 14:24, 46 seconds total – 2 messages, 2 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 5 secs ago by Ginger

emanresu A

19:22

Wait actually... There might be something

😴

Ginger

what the hell is this badge

emanresu A

Insanely hard to get

Bgil Midol

500 questions???

Ginger

nobody has it for obvious reasons

you have to edit AND ANSWER 500 questions WITHIN 12 HOURS

emanresu A

That's unclear

Ginger

19:29

halfway to Popular Question!

emanresu A

You have to edit and answer 500 questions, each pair of actions with no more than 12 hours between them

Ginger

just need 5000 more people to view

@emanresuA oh

that makes MUCH more sense

they have it formatted a touch ambiguously

emanresu A

@hyper-neutrino would you mind undeleting if you haven't already - I fixed it.

SegFaultPlus4

@emanresuA windows is superior

Bgil Midol

@emanresuA oh

SegFaultPlus4

19:31

@BgilMidol deez-nuts

@Ginger [tag:tag,tag:tag]

emanresu A

🙇‍♂️ and 👨‍🎤 among others didn't work

🧍‍♀️ had the right colours but the area was just too small

👨‍👧 had a too pale yellow

🐠 was too blurry

🚡has too dark a blue

SegFaultPlus4

@emanresuA "too dark a vlue" have you been at the 🚡 or smth

emanresu A

Hm, they shipped the new sorting menu

Radvylf Programs

19:52

We were discussing that in some detail earlier, yeah

They only seem to have shipped the UI change

Not the functionality

SegFaultPlus4

question, is *a***b** ambiguous as to which is bold and which is italic

surely it's just a b

but without a space

acb

emanresu A

@RadvylfPrograms :|

Radvylf Programs

My raspberry pi alarm clock thingy is mostly working :D

I now have it capable of reading the date, weather information, some random news stories, and any unread emails I have

emanresu A

Have you got it to read your cgcc inbox yet?

hmm

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