The Nineteenth Byte

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00:00

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Q: AoCG2021 Day 4: Infinite Elves and infinite houses 2

Part of Advent of Code Golf 2021 event. See the linked meta post for details. Related to AoC2015 Day 20, Part 1. Here's why I'm posting instead of Bubbler and why not emanresuA To keep the Elves busy, Santa has them deliver some presents by hand, door-to-door. He sends them down a street with in...

rues

00:41

Nice, Windows 11 will have a Windows Subsystem for Android

rues

00:53

CMP: Has anyone here tried Opera or Vivaldi? Are they worth switching to from Firefox?

I really like the little of Vivaldi I've seen so far, but it feels very laggy and I don't know if it's possible to more productive with it in the long run by learning the keyboard shortcuts and stuff

lyxal

@rues I would recommend Vivaldi

@rues in reality, you don't actually use the keyboard shortcuts very much, but I don't find it to be laggy

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Baloney Sandwich KOTH

lyxal

@OldSandboxPosts aw dang those don't have any easy antonyms

rues

@lyxal I do find it to be laggy because I'm used to more minimal browsers such as Chrome and Firefox (okay, Chrome and FF aren't all that minimal, but compared to Vivaldi, they're pretty lightweight)

I imagine this is what a Vim user feels like when they see someone using VS Code. Sure, VS Code is totally manageable to people like us who are used to that, but the Vim user will keep complaining about how long it takes to do anything

lyxal

Honestly it might be worth waiting for duckduckgo to release their desktop browser

rues

01:01

I need a shiny new browser until then :P

lyxal

Vivaldi should be a good bridge

Plus you can have 3d scrolling :p

rues

Always a good feature :P

@lyxal May I ask why? I like the whole privacy aspect, but their desktop browser probably won't be as good as, say, FF, right?

lyxal

Mostly brand loyalty

But also maybe email protection for desktop

Which would be nice because it's currently only on mobile

@rues also, tab stacking

tab stacking is cool

Unrelated String

oooh

lyxal

say you want to have all your code golf stuff open while doing AoC

sure you could have all separate tabs

but you could also do this:

rues

01:08

Oh yeah, love that feature

lyxal

then when you switch to the AoC tab collection:

rues

I tried out the Tree tabs extension in FF but it just isn't the same

Tab tiling is cool too

lyxal

then once you're done with AoC for the day, you just close the collection instead of each separate tab

You can also get a Vivaldi email address too

But idk if they work properly, because my account didn't receive some emails last year when I was helping proofread and "play test" the APL problem solving challenges

Razetime

02:01

btw who's posting on 4th

(AoCG)

ah lyxal

lyxal

Yes

rues

03:23

So I went and installed Windows 11 anyway despite the risks and it feels so alien

Unrelated String

i remember i installed it by accident a few months ago and immediately went back because it moved my taskbar

rues

It's like a Windows laptop and a Mac had a weird-looking baby

Unrelated String

looked like it had other problems too

rues

@UnrelatedString You can align that to the left lol

Unrelated String

yeah

@rues i couldn't then

rues

03:24

But the icons, theme, everything is so different

@UnrelatedString Imagine using Insiders builds

Unrelated String

i fucking hate this insider shit

every time i reboot i have to bump my system date back to open wsl

rues

Why'd you install it then? :P

Unrelated String

because i thought i'd end up using some cuda driver thing that i never ended up using

rues

Can't you get back to normal builds?

Unrelated String

i thought so

but i can't find any option to

rues

03:27

Oh no

Unrelated String

...not that i actually searched

i think i already opted out of flighting

rues

lol

Y'know, I could get used to these rounded corners

Unrelated String

okay yeah i'd actually have to just do a clean install of windows 10 to get out of insider

rues

Oof, can you preserve your settings if you do that?

Unrelated String

probably with some kind of cloud sync thing maybe possibly

rues

03:31

Ok, I take back Windows 11 looking weird, it is weird, but not in a bad way at least

Have you come across any particularly annoying bugs so far?

Unrelated String

i'm honestly not sure

i think i got on insider relatively soon after moving off my 6 year old macbook so my baseline expectations for things are a bit lower than they should be

rues

Wait no this update installed frickin' Tiktok and Instagram and tons of other bloatware

Unrelated String

what the fuck

why
why does tiktok even have a desktop app

rues

idk lol

Unrelated String

the instagram logo looks so wrong there

rues

03:34

(Spotify and Tiktok are now gone, thankfully, now for the rest)

Unrelated String

and... disney+ and prime video? the hell

lyxal

@rues would you recommend windows 11?

rues

lol I've spent like 15 minutes on it so far, I have no idea

lyxal

Is it true you can use Android apps on Windows 11?

rues

With the Windows Subsystem for Android, I think

lyxal

03:38

I wonder if you can use sideloaded apps on win11

rues

That would be amazing

Unrelated String

ahahah

rues

---Then I can get my laptop to pretend to be 5 devices at once using the laptop itself, WSL, a VirtualBox VM, Android Studio's Android emulator, and WSA :P

@UnrelatedString Christmas spirit?

Unrelated String

hohoho?

rues

:)

Can I get some presents, Santa?

Redwolf Programs

03:49

Dang, so now Windows and Chrome OS can both run Android apps?

If Android's the magical solution that fixes all cross-platform compatibility issues a century from now, I called it first

lyxal

I just committed democracy for the first time

I'm just hoping I didn't accidentally screw anything up while voting lol

Razetime

very well

rues

04:08

@RedwolfPrograms Noooooo

That sounds like the worst solution ever lol

Hmm, you could run WSA on Wine on Linux

PyGamer0

@RedwolfPrograms that would be dumb

@rues technically android is linux, but you can't run android apps on linux

which doesnt sound right

rues

04:24

🤔

emanresu A

'elloo

Rɪᴋᴇʀ

o/

lyxal

o/

PyGamer0

o/

Redwolf Programs

04:41

Dang it, some of my voting was counted as serial voting

Oh well, I'll leave it for now

rues

Oof

Redwolf Programs

> A congressionally mandated commission recommended in March 2020 that women should be eligible for the draft.

Why not just...not maintain the infrastructure for a draft lol

hyper-neutrino

04:56

how tf did the system invalidate 3 votes

how is that enough to count as serial voting 💀

emanresu A

@RedwolfPrograms Context?

Redwolf Programs

A law's possibly going to be passed making so women also have to do the Selective Service thingy

Where you give the US your name and address and stuff in case they go to war and need a draft

Glad to know both sexes will have an equal right to be sent to war against their will

(Not that I really expect another draft, or even major war, will ever happen)

emanresu A

> “I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.” - Albert Einstein

DLosc

05:24

@DLosc Well, I was wrong. The actual problem: when you're viewing a local HTML file, Firefox sets location.origin to "null" (that's a string, not an actual null value, BTW). This meant that my permalinks started with null instead of file://, which (understandably) caused pushState to error.

Redwolf Programs

That's pretty janky

DLosc

Fortunately, it works as expected when it's not a local file, so once I pushed the code and tried it on GitHub pages, it was fine.

@RedwolfPrograms It sure is

Redwolf Programs

Can you not use relative URIs?

Haven't messed around with pushState in like 4 years lol

DLosc

Probably, but once I realized my current code would work on GH Pages, I decided to leave it as-is at least for now.

Redwolf Programs

lol

DLosc

05:28

@DLosc This is still a thing, though. :/

PyGamer0

i made another userscript

DLosc

05:42

@DLosc Here's a JSFiddle. The cursor type doesn't change while the button is disabled in Chrome, but it does change in Firefox.

PyGamer0

CMQ: ok for flax do i add another tacit dyad rule?

Unrelated String

what rule are yout hinking of

PyGamer0

here is the rule: + F | λ + F(⍵) | 2, 1

Unrelated String

well that would definitely fuck a lot of things but it's not an entirely bad idea either ig

hyper-neutrino

is that in dyadic or monadic

PyGamer0

05:49

dyadic

⍵

hyper-neutrino

hm

there have been times where i've wanted that

but you can always use }

PyGamer0

inspired by:

14 hours ago, by pxeger

How do I get F(x) + G(y) for monads F and G and dyad + (basically an APL fork) in Jelly?

Unrelated String

it's good to be able to count on monads just completely separating patterns in dyadic chains

PyGamer0

so do i take that as a no?

hyper-neutrino

well, it's up to you

in some places it'd save a byte. in other places it'd waste a byte. it's really all a tradeoff

Unrelated String

05:51

^

hyper-neutrino

all i'll say is if you make it fork like this then you'll need an identity atom to get it to not do that, and that adds another atom so it might screw with chaining

whereas if you don't fork, it only takes 1 quick to make it fork, and so you don't need more combiners or to move things around and it's overall simpler

PyGamer0

seems like i wont add it then

Unrelated String

for the issue with FG+HJ$} in particular you could introduce a quick to pop monads until you hit a dyad then right-compose the monads onto the dyad

i was about to mention something i had thought of for perhaps but then i realized i could rip off ¤ instead

PyGamer0

so what will +FGH<quick> evaluate to?

H(G(F(λ+⍵)))?

Unrelated String

+FGHƊ}¥

hard to say if there's anything sensible it could do with nilads but that's just a pervasive issue

PyGamer0

06:00

@UnrelatedString so λ+F(G(H(⍵))))?

hyper-neutrino

yep

Unrelated String

yeah

PyGamer0

cool i can understand jelly now

with the help of the wiki

Unrelated String

~~then explain this because i forgot how~~

lyxal

@UnrelatedString ez

®Ṭ€z0aḷżṚ⁸ṭṚŻ€4¡o⁶ð“><+-.,[]”iⱮxṠoŒQÄ©ŒQƲ$$ịŻ€
®Ṭ€z0aḷżṚ⁸ṭṚŻ€4¡o⁶ð“                           No Operation
                    >                          Move the pointer to the right
                     <                         Move the pointer to the left
                      +                        Increment the memory cell at the pointer
                       -                       Decrement the memory cell at the pointer
                        .                      Output the character signified by the cell at the pointer

hyper-neutrino

06:04

wtf

PyGamer0

wtf

hyper-neutrino

@lyxal thank you lyxal very cool

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino just doing my part by making the obvious joke

PyGamer0

@lyxal Approved by FDA

@pxeger v

Flax new dyad rule?

20 mins ago, 13 minutes total – 29 messages, 3 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 6 secs ago by PyGamer0

@pxeger ^

the double ping point to message lol

hyper-neutrino

sounds pretty unnecessary 💀

Unrelated String

06:09

wait that's its output on itself
i think that actually breaks the spec
fuck

hyper-neutrino

uhhhhhhhh rip

lyxal

@UnrelatedString F

hyper-neutrino

hey lyxal your meme contributed to discovering a bug :p

lyxal

lol

5 mins ago, by lyxal

@hyper-neutrino just doing my part by making the obvious joke

PyGamer0

for a second my eyes broke

and i saw a diamond next to lyxal

Unrelated String

06:15

i'm not sure how i can make it handle trailing noops because i'm not sure how it handles noops

hyper-neutrino

lol

lyxal

lol

Unrelated String

wait i think it literally can only handle one block of noops
and that just didn't come up in any of the test cases

how did i even think of using ŒQ in there in the first place

hyper-neutrino

huh. weird

Unrelated String

06:46

and my attempts at fixing it were thwarted by forgetting that it's Ż to prepend 0 and not Ẓ

which is funny because i tried it first

but then i tried the other one to see if that worked, it didn't either, and i just stuck with it lmao

...that doesn't work either

lmao

pxeger

@PyGamer0 you could just add a version of } which just collects all monads to its left (keeps going until it finds a dyad that isn't paired with a nilad)

Unrelated String

maybe it's something to do with the other ŒQ which i genuinely have no idea about

PyGamer0

@pxeger you just said what Unrelated said

58 mins ago, by Unrelated String

for the issue with FG+HJ$} in particular you could introduce a quick to pop monads until you hit a dyad then right-compose the monads onto the dyad

pxeger

oh I didn't read ahead in the transcript lol

Unrelated String

tbf i didn't consider the dyad0nilad pair aspect

-

hyper-neutrino

06:55

i just spent nearly 20 minutes translating a social credit copypasta from chinese to japanese

wtf am I doing with my life

pxeger

do you want me to answer that?

Unrelated String

good things

Rɪᴋᴇʀ

@hyper-neutrino 你散发着资本主义的气息

PyGamer0

whats the difference between links and chains?

hyper-neutrino

not much, really

@Rɪᴋᴇʀ 你为什么这样子认为呀

pxeger

07:05

"link" means any of 3 different things, out of the 5 things that Jelly has; "chain" means a different subset of 2 different things out of those 5

Rɪᴋᴇʀ

@hyper-neutrino 不要侮辱你的上级! -124分。

hyper-neutrino

@Rɪᴋᴇʀ １１１１５点数があなたの個人的な社会信用得点に差し引きました

Rɪᴋᴇʀ

@hyper-neutrino 坏公民! -17个社会信用

pxeger

can we stop with this now?

hyper-neutrino

yeah

PyGamer0

07:10

flax: added the modifiers part (quicks)

^ feedback?

PyGamer0

07:48

how do i do a windowed reduce in Jelly?

Unrelated String

just slap a nilad before /

there's also Ɲ for the specific case of `2` (might vectorize differently too, i forget)

`2\`

2\\

2\

yeah

also can map over the slices from s

PyGamer0

ok thanks

AoC Day 1 Part 1 in Jelly

AoC Day 1 Part 2 in Jelly

Unrelated String

nice

emanresu A

08:07

in Advent of Code, 5 mins ago, by emanresu A

CMC: Given a bit matrix, check if at least one row or column has all items truthy

(I have 48 in JS)

PyGamer0

Dyalog APL: {l←≢⍵⋄a←+/l=+/⍵⋄b←+/l=+⌿⍵⋄a∨b}

CMQ: Should I yoink all Jelly quicks?

emanresu A

Vyxal: ∩"ƛvAa;A

hyper-neutrino

@PyGamer0 i mean you could but why make a new language then lol

Unrelated String

don't yoink ƙ

PyGamer0

oƙ

@hyper-neutrino so is my list of quicks enough?

hyper-neutrino

08:22

that's up to you to decide lol

like the thing is it's practically impossible to create the perfect golfing lang

every built-in you add is another one you can't (for 1 byte i mean)

PyGamer0

perfect golflang is when all problems can be solved in zero bytes

hyper-neutrino

it's all tradeoffs and so jelly is much better than vyxal for array stuff but vyxal can easily beat jelly on a lot of string stuff due to jelly trading off strings entirely to be good at array/math

Sandbox Posts

08:44

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Output sequence from a name You are given a sequence of numbers(0-9) which you have to convert to its literal form. Example Input : 1246 Output : 26666 We interpret the input as one 2 four 6, thus giving the output 2 one time and 6 four times Testcase Input Output 1234567809 2444666668888...

emanresu A

09:05

Any feedback?

Anush

09:29

tweepy is driving me mad. Any competent at coding see the stupid mistake I must be making? I think I am getting 100 tweets at a time up to a limit of 200 tweets bpa.st/TSJA . But in fact I seem to be getting two tweets

Razetime

tweepy has a discord chat you should ask the same question on

Anush

@Razetime thanks

@Razetime but I just feel I must be being really stupid

is it blindingly obvious?

Razetime

being stupid isexactly what help forums are for

don't let stackoverflow tell you otherwise

Anush

@Razetime :)

@Razetime the only person on the discord channel seems to be the lead developer!

Razetime

09:55

neato

Neil

10:18

@DLosc why do you need the origin anyway?

oh, Redwolf already asked

PyGamer0

12:15

is the index origin in jelly 1?

yeah ḣ behaves like what it would do in python

so i guess its only ị with ⎕IO←0

PyGamer0

12:38

ok so i have (probably) finished the basic element list

flax: feedback?

hELLO¯@rUES

did that ping?

wow how does flax have 40 revisions

rues

13:31

It did ping

@PyGamer0 How?

PyGamer0

13:46

wdym

rues

Oh, I read that as versions, nvm

@tjjfvi Btw, just wanted to remind you your bounty's ending tomorrow if you want to award it

PyGamer0

14:18

wtf i just saw a users bio

rues

What was so special about it?

PyGamer0

it lists their favourite users and users they dont like

rues

...that does not sound very nice

PyGamer0

yeah

PyGamer0

14:50

@rues make your own, ez /s

@RedwolfPrograms yes

Fmbalbuena

16:12

@PyGamer0 ping

Do you understand langjam?

Alan Bagel

I don't

Fmbalbuena

@AlanBagel i was pinging on @PyGamer0

Alan Bagel

oh

Sandbox Posts

16:27

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Fastest Sorting Algirithom fastest-code sorting Given a list of integers, sort it in ascending order, as fast as possible. Test cases [4, 9, 2, 1, 5, 7] => [1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 9] [-1, -7, 4, 5, 2, -6] => [-7, -6, -1, 2, 4, 5] [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, ..., 1000] => [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, ..., 1000] Scoring You...

Alan Bagel

Any feedback on ^?

Fmbalbuena

@AlanBagel I commented 2 times

> use fastest-code there are few questions with both tags. – Fmbalbuena

> time spent on what interpreter? can you say TIO? – Fmbalbuena

hyper-neutrino

Don't use TIO for testing fastest-code.

Alan Bagel

@hyper-neutrino why?

hyper-neutrino

11

Q: Is TIO acceptable for fastest-code questions?

I like to ask fastest-code questions. However, I don't want to run everyone's code on my PC, partly because I only have access to a slow Windows laptop at the moment and I can't imagine I could even run most code in most languages. Is it acceptable to ask people to include a TIO link in their...

discussion

Alan Bagel

16:33

@hyper-neutrino what should i use instead?

hyper-neutrino

typically people just time on their own computer and include their specs in the challenge details

Fmbalbuena

@hyper-neutrino i have a bit better computer.

pxeger

Any feedback?

Fmbalbuena

@pxeger None

Alan Bagel

why do i always click on downvote instead of upvote (although it doesn't matter on meta)

hyper-neutrino

16:38

i think it looks good

Alan Bagel

looks good and fun

caird coinheringaahing

@SandboxPosts Honestly, this doesn't seem like a good idea for a challenge. Fast sorting algorithms are builtin in most languages, and I think that most solutions will lose to things like timsort. The only place that looks like there's room for improvement is in identification of the array to see whether, in that particular case, there's a better algorithm

Alan Bagel

@cairdcoinheringaahing I got the idea in my sleep :P

caird coinheringaahing

Hell, we even have a Fastest Sort in brainfuck challenge

Fmbalbuena

CMQ: guess what happened This

but This Works

hyper-neutrino

16:58

are you confused by this or are you trying to see if we know?

Fmbalbuena

trying to see if we know.

hyper-neutrino

oh okay. yeah it's cuz leading __ obfuscates the method name, so for class std the method __out becomes _std__out

or something like that

Fmbalbuena

but how to fix that?

hyper-neutrino

just don't name it like that?

Fmbalbuena

@hyper-neutrino but... i need to fix

hyper-neutrino

17:02

what do you need to fix

just don't put __ at the beginning of your method name

Fmbalbuena

@hyper-neutrino ... i need to put for some reason.

hyper-neutrino

why

Fmbalbuena

@hyper-neutrino for definitions of user input

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing Oh, to add a little bit more info to this: the calendars cost $45, but you can choose to "contribute" more to get one

Who on earth is spending $45 on a calendar?

caird coinheringaahing

17:31

O.o I doubled my reputation this year. At the start of the year, I had 21700 rep, and I've just gone past 43400 in the past couple of days

pxeger

congrats!

Alan Bagel

@cairdcoinheringaahing congrats. now try tripling it in 5 months

caird coinheringaahing

Tripling my current rep would give me 130,563 rep, putting me just behind xnor :P

Alan Bagel

how much does xnor have

caird coinheringaahing

134k

@cairdcoinheringaahing In fact, to get to the amount, it would take me 435 days of repcapping non-stop :P

Alan Bagel

17:36

if dennis had ten times his current rep he would have 2 million

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing Alternatively, if I had to get to 130,563 by the end of April (5 months from now), I'd need to get 576 rep per day :P

Alan Bagel

@cairdcoinheringaahing wut

caird coinheringaahing

In comparison, this year, I've earned an average of 64.5 rep per day :P

pxeger

17:51

Assuming I earn no rep today, I'll have 27.1 per day, this year

hyper-neutrino

how many days has it been, 338?

pxeger

yes

@pxeger and 21.1 per day, overall

caird coinheringaahing

Top 50 users by overall rep/day

hyper-neutrino

i have 30.7/day this year right now which is higher than I thought

DLosc

CMQ: Which characters other than printable ASCII + newline are the most useful for a golfing language to support in its strings? I have four slots available.

pxeger

17:56

@DLosc null byte?

caird coinheringaahing

Box drawing characters maybe?

Tab?

pxeger

@cairdcoinheringaahing I don't think you'd get a good enough box with only 4 characters to choose from

@DLosc backspace and carriage return, to support interactive text overwriting in terminals?

Fmbalbuena

Is Doorknob active user?

hyper-neutrino

not anymore

caird coinheringaahing

He may still be active on the mod dashboard side of things, but he doesn't post anymore

Flax new dyad rule?

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