The Nineteenth Byte

user

00:08

@hyper-neutrino Haven't heard to it yet, but I'm sure it'll be music to my ears :P

emanresu A

fridge

user

@Bubbler Cool challenge, looks good to me

@lyxal It better be a perfect tree

lyxal

@user it's for an assignment, so I do not control the shape of tree

emanresu A

00:30

Binary trees need binary treehouses ;)

Wait no

REJECT BINARY, RETURN TO UNARY

Hm, pressing the up key in the message box lets you edit your last message

lyxal

@emanresuA that just sounds like a linkedlist with extra steps

emanresu A

@user Oh btw, if scratch isn't blocked (which seems likely, it's a school) it has some epic games

Also, I can probably pirate one or two games off other sites if you want

(as in copying the source code)

hyper-neutrino

@user well, have you listened to it :P

OldSandboxPosts

01:00

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Recursive Stalin Sort

lyxal

01:18

man vs code has all sorts of funky macro names in it's autocomplete dictionary for c++

_GLIBCXX_USE_C99_INTTYPES_WCHAR_T_TR1 is the longest I've found thusfar

Bubbler

Autocomplete do be like that

user

01:38

@emanresuA Good idea

@emanresuA Thanks for offering, but I’m not that starved of simulation :P

@lyxal Are you using Tabnine or smth?

lyxal

@user no

New Posts

0

Q: How many values of this type?

Background The number of values for a given type is called the cardinality of that type, and that of type T is written as |T|. Haskell and a few other languages have a certain set of enum types, each of which has a small finite number of values (the exact names vary, so this challenge uses some a...

Bubbler

01:59

@NewPosts Bah, always blame ""eval is not allowed" is not allowed" :(

hyper-neutrino

yeah sorry i'll post an actually interesting solution in a bit

Bubbler

No need to be sorry, I totally expected an eval solution coming anyway

hyper-neutrino

ahh just remembered parsing brackets is kinda cringe so nvm i'm probably not gonna bother; too lazy to lol

time to make a golfing language speciically to solve parsing problems

Bubbler

I did consider alternative syntax in place of function brackets, but I was afraid that it might hurt the challenge's accessibility (and people mostly would do charsub followed by eval anyway)

Meanwhile I just noticed that the second letter of each constructor is unique

Redwolf Programs

I think I've just proved myself in circles...but I'm not entirely sure. I think I (re?)discovered something interesting relating to the Collatz Conjecture

Basically, if there was any number that would result in the same number after some amount of iterations, that would disprove the collatz conjecture since it'd be an infinite loop that doesn't go to 1.

But I thought of something interesting relating to that

Although I'm almost certainly wrong

Wait no I think I'm wrong

Bubbler

02:20

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms Wait actually I don't know now

Oh hey, it seems you're proving the exact same thing I am, just in a presumably different way

I did it with some really basic algebra, which is why I think I'm probably wrong

Basically, any cycle would look something like x=ax+b, where a and b are initially 1 and 0 respectively, and you can either divide both by two, or multiply both by 3 and add 1 to b

I just assumed for the sake of simplicity that a is greater than 0 (since halving and multiplying by three could never make it negative) and b is greater than or equal to 0 (since adding one and/or multiplying/dividing can't make it negative, either).

Bubbler

Looks fine so far, assuming a and b can be rationals

Redwolf Programs

If you do some rearranging, you get a <= 1 and b < x, which makes sense (multiplying x by a number higher than 1 will never make the two sides equal, same with adding a number greater than or equal to x)

Bubbler

Yes

Redwolf Programs

And...I just realized where I did things wrong :p

Bubbler

02:26

? lol

Redwolf Programs

I'd assumed that as b approaches x, b / (1 - a) would consistently either increase or decrease, in which case b / (1 - a) would be x, and since b != x, it'd never be true. But that doesn't work.

Bubbler

Yeah, that's kinda nonsense

Redwolf Programs

Yeah I have no idea what I even wrote down

I need to think about it again

Bubbler

Note: my proof does not eliminate the possibility of having a Collatz cycle outside the infinite tree

Redwolf Programs

Oh yeah

emanresu A

02:30

@Bubbler Isn't that... kinda obvious? How do you have a cycle in a tree?

Bubbler

Otherwise I've earned some kind of award already (or more likely some other smart people well before me would have solved it and it wouldn't be a conjecture anyway)

@emanresuA There is exactly one possible cycle (1, 2, 4) in the tree, which should be handled manually

emanresu A

(aside from that one)

Bubbler

No, by definition it is only called a Collatz graph, and a tree is formed by removing all edges that go back to some parent. I'm proving that there's actually only one such edge.

emanresu A

Oh, nice.

PyGamer0

04:12

@Adám and dinoux ;)

Redwolf Programs

Out of interest, where does the name dinoux come from? (and how do you pronounce it?)

I read it as "dino" but I figure that's probably wrong :p

emanresu A

@RedwolfPrograms @PyGamer0 Your brother came up with it, right?

Redwolf Programs

Wait...you can get an RSS feed for chat messages matching a search query

For example, chat.stackexchange.com/feeds/search/dinoux is a feed with messages in TNB containing the string "dinoux"

emanresu A

Just how much are you going to abuse this?

Redwolf Programs

So...they have RSS feeds for chat search, but didn't take the time to make chat search work

PyGamer0

04:15

@emanresuA yes

more specifically i was reading the C programming language book

i saw d, i, n, o, u, x as to be used in format strings ig

i showed the sequence to my brother and he said it would be a nice name for my language

Bubbler

I forgot the formats other than %d and %x/%X

So can I call your language dxX instead?

emanresu A

What about %c?

PyGamer0

@RedwolfPrograms pronounced as: die - nooks (@emanresuA style) or di - nox (how i pronounce it)

@emanresuA ig

Bubbler

Who uses %c anyway /s

PyGamer0

wait lemme find that sequence again

Redwolf Programs

04:21

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/130499/all-of-the-lols

You lol, we find you

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms lol

Redwolf Programs

Unfortunately feeds are slow so it'll probably just spit out a bunch of lols every hour or so

PyGamer0

lol

lyxal

l○l

Zoom auto-captions working extra hard to transcript my lecturer

Redwolf Programs

Bames Nond's having a stronk, call a Bondulance

PyGamer0

04:24

> The conversion characters d, i, n, o, u and x maybe preceded by h ..........

@lyxal captions are the funniest thing in classes

lyxal

PyGamer0

ma'am is now mom

so everyone calls their mother

@lyxal what did you leacturer actually say?

löl

lyxal

@lyxal [substitute] the x point into the function and you can get straight away from the function the area value

@PyGamer0 ^

PyGamer0

@lyxal ash boy lol

i will now refer to x as ash and a point as boy

Redwolf Programs

2

lyxal

04:29

@RedwolfPrograms almost

it's integration

PyGamer0

CMC: so kids given the ash coords and the y coords, find which quadrant (numbered from clockwise 1-4) the boy lies in

lyxal

Redwolf Programs

Oh no we have get had a malfunction

lyxal

Basically every second sentence gets screwed up

PyGamer0

@RWP are you making a language?

i mean @USR

Redwolf Programs

04:40

We have lols!

PyGamer0

united states revolts :P

Redwolf Programs

The lol feed has been updated

lyxal

oof the lecturer just started shipping functions together

3

we're in for some steamy calculus fan-fic now

PyGamer0

@RedwolfPrograms it cant catch unicodd lóls

lyxal

Redwolf Programs

04:45

@lyxal I want to reply to this with some relevant math puns but unfortunately I think it'd be a little too NSFW :/

At least in the direction I was going to take it 👀

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms no, it's for all SE

Your lol feed caught a non-TNB lol

Redwolf Programs

Oh huh, I did the search for dinoux as TNB-only

lyxal

then maybe it is and the feed is accidentally all SE

@RedwolfPrograms zoom captions beat you to it

Redwolf Programs

No, the lol feed was intentionally all of SE

lyxal

lol

emanresu A

04:55

lol

@RedwolfPrograms Bot time!

thejonymyster

Hello, I am new user and i am wonder:
how do you guys come up with scoring systems for challenges that arent just "shortest code"

im trying to finalize my sandbox draft so that it is more approvable but i rlly dont know how to approach the score formula

Bubbler

Don't try to use a formula, it is impossible to balance well

If you have two kinds of scores in mind, you can make one the primary score and the other a tie-breaker

If it doesn't work, then probably your challenge as a whole doesn't work very well

Redwolf Programs

See y'all tomorrow o/

emanresu A

o///////

(More arms stolen)

lyxal

I have a little secret to confess

the arms and other body limbs I showed you were never actually stolen

they were all mass produced in a factory

so by stealing them from me, you're actually committing the crimes

Redwolf Programs

05:10

Nuh uh, you made us believe they were ours

It's all about intent

thejonymyster

something something arms dealer

Redwolf Programs

lol

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms so that y'all'd get arrested for limb stealing

all part of my elaborate plan

Redwolf Programs

We acted under the belief that they were our arms though!

I'll get my lawyer to handle this, he has many more heads than usual

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms twas all a lie! (except for the IRS investigation though - turns out our tax evasion was more extreme than I thought)

thejonymyster

05:13

in that case, i will ask which is better: https://codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/23941/107310?
high priority: iterations; low priority: shortest code? or vice versa

Redwolf Programs

This would be a good question for law.SE, but I'm pretty sure IRL taking your stuff back if you've been told by the owner it's yours is fine, as long as you don't commit other crimes in the process

thejonymyster

alt: should i just require it go on theoretically infinitely

Redwolf Programs

But anyway, gtg o////////////

thejonymyster

o

(me waving with 0 arms)

lyxal

@thejonymyster iterations seems like a good scoring count

thejonymyster

05:15

well thats two people including myself so im going with it

emanresu A

Ok sure

thtat sounds good

To me, looks good to post.

thejonymyster

oh, awesome :-)

Bubbler

primary = iterations, tiebreak = code golf (of the first program I think?)

emanresu A

Just maybe tidy up a bit first

thejonymyster

actually thats another thing i was wondering

@emanresuA of course

Bubbler

05:17

Also, would you allow infinity iterations or not?

thejonymyster

i wonder if itd be good to score based on shortness of /all/ iterations

emanresu A

@Bubbler That's probably where the tiebreak's going to come in as soon as someone figures out how

Which should be fairly easy

thejonymyster

yeah, which is why im wondering if i should just enforce infinity

Bubbler

Shortness of all iterations would heavily depend on the shortness of the first one anyway, and if you allow infinity then the former is not measurable (but the latter is)

thejonymyster

true

emanresu A

05:20

Can someone check the CV queue? There's a review there that I'm not sure about

thejonymyster

or i could have the answerer calculate the slope of their bytecount / iterations

no uh

shortness of iteration one then, yeah. i just wont enforce infinity since once someone gets it, it Will be enforced

plus for something like a non tc lang itd be fun to see how far it can get

lyxal

pro-tip: require non-empty quines

emanresu A

@thejonymyster In some, it might be possible. There's probably a way to do it with HQ9+...

lyxal

because otherwise, there's an easy win:

102

A: Program that creates larger versions of itself (quine-variant)

GS2 (8636bd8e), 0 bytes This prints a single newline, which prints two newlines, which prints three newlines, et cetera. Try it online!

emanresu A

@lyxal That doesn't work, or at least not simply...

Since you need to print all preceding programs

thejonymyster

05:24

is empty quine not already on the standard loopholes list

but yea empty program wouldnt work because the new program generated would output the same thing

and itd be only 1 iteration

since like

if you wanted to say "the program is empty, and the delimiter is newline"

Bubbler

Or you can require that all generated programs are different

thejonymyster

this is not necessary

because programs which are not different do not generate different outputs

if your program is "f" and it prints "f f"

Bubbler

Oh right, that doesn't work anyway

thejonymyster

yup

for posterity,
the second program "f" would also print "f f"

im not sure if thatd be 1 iteration or two though

emanresu A

Check out the last lol in the list

What is that room?

thejonymyster

05:31

uhh link pls

emanresu A

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/130499/all-of-the-lols

thejonymyster

oh my god

hyper-neutrino

@emanresuA it's just an autogenerated comments-to-chat room name lol

thejonymyster

btw does anyone have a better name than "Iterative Quine?"

i feel like that basically gets the point across but idk

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Iterative Quine? Create a program which prints itself, followed by an additional program. This additional program should print the first program, itself, and then a third program. This continues until the nth program, which prints every program in order up to itself, but fails to print a successo...

is this Sufficiently Cleaned Up?

if so, im gonna post to main site

question: do i need to apply the tags myself? im not sure what to put besides maybe quine and code-golf

lyxal

code-challenge if it isn't shortest

quine for sure

thejonymyster

05:38

right, right

ty

lyxal

and this-isnt-actually-a-tag-i-just-made-it-up-dont-use-it if you're feeling lucky

emanresu A

@WheatWitch Do you think it's possible to make a Lost polyglot?

thejonymyster

i am feeling very lucky >:)

lyxal

@thejonymyster well then use it at your own risk

3

thejonymyster

..how do i add tags btw haha

emanresu A

05:42

SCROLL DOWN

sorry caps locl

Just above the review/post butto

thejonymyster

ah, that isnt in the sandbox

got it, ty

emanresu A

For the sandbox you can add [tag:tagname] in the markdown

thejonymyster

tempting...

hyper-neutrino

i don't think you have enough rep lol

lyxal

^

thejonymyster

05:49

@emanresuA i did find that in the guides on the side

@hyper-neutrino haha its probably for the best

hyper-neutrino

yeah you post in the sandbox as an answer and to main as a question so things don't line up. one of the many reasons a better sandbox feature would improve so many things

New Posts

0

Q: Iterative Quine?

Create a program which prints itself, followed by an additional program. This additional program should print the first program, itself, and then a third program. This continues until the nth program, which prints every program in order up to itself, but fails to print a successor. All programs o...

code-challenge quine

thejonymyster

any last minute edits i should make?

emanresu A

Get rid of the ?

thejonymyster

fair!

i put it there since isnt an iterative quine supposed to like

come back to the original program?

Huỳnh Trần Khanh

05:54

stack exchange has a habit of appending the ? mark after question titles for some reason... I'm surprised to hear that this was intentional though lol

thejonymyster

i also thought itd spike intrigue....

like an ellipsis..........

hyper-neutrino

i feel like a score of infinity should be possible here

thejonymyster

it def is

hyper-neutrino

not particularly good at quines tho

thejonymyster

i know how to do it for the like js brand cheating quine

where a function prints its own code

thank you everyone for all of your help :-)

10 minutes and no answers.. oh i must be a failure

Oh i am just joshing :-)

lyxal

06:04

@thejonymyster no, you aren't just joshing :-)

you're thejonymyster

that's an easy mistake to make for new users, claiming to be someone they aren't

usually, they'll claim to be the moderator JoKing

"joshing" is new.

thejonymyster

lol

someone already commented saying the scoring system is bad haha

hopefully my cheeky little comment doesnt come off as mean spirited.. i even gave it a smily :)

well, no sense in obsessing over it all night. Goodnight all

lyxal

o/

pxeger

\o

Aaroneous Miller

/o

emanresu A

06:20

/o/g.test

When you try to run Vyxal in Python 2

And now it's completely cursed

Does anyone know how to run Vyxal locally???

Jo King

06:40

@thejonymyster damn, i actually had this prepared for the next time someone made a name joke

Wheat Witch

@emanresuA lost is frequently a polyglot with Klein just incidentally

Or at least can be rotated to make one

emanresu A

What about with a non-2d language?

New Posts

0

Q: adding characters to sting using algorythm

There is only a character at the beginning of the string. After that, every step at the beginning of the string with more spaces is added the next character in the alphabet. 1.a 2.bab 4.dcdbdcdadcdbdcd so i want to make algo that follow the rule that adding logically these characters make the st...

string python balanced-string compiler

emanresu A

06:55

Such spelling!

Bubbler

Also how the numbering skips 3 and adds to the confusion

Jo King

algo was the U.S. president right?

emanresu A

I feel like it's a troll

Unrelated String

it's not the kind of absurd incompetence that a troll would mimic

it's just close

emanresu A

They use 'sting' not once but twice, while also using 'string'; they misspelt 'algorithm', they have weird capitalisation and they can't count.

The bit before the code block is correctly punctuated, spelt and capitalised, the bit after is all lowercase and a mess

It feels like it was written byy two different people

Jo King

07:02

the grammar is wrong everywhere though

lyxal

@emanresuA python vyxal.py <filename> 'flags' input input input ...

Anush

07:28

CMC modulo inverse that will take less than 60 seconds on 500 digit integers

Bubbler

Is modulo guaranteed to be a prime?

Anush

that is given x and m,return a so that a x mod m == 1

Assume x and m are coprime

Bubbler

Answer: use extended Euclidean GCD

Bubbler

07:43

@Anush dCode's calculator and the python port runs pretty fast

Anush

@Bubbler wow

Bubbler

Do you have a particular language in mind, btw?

Anush

Python

:)

Maybe we need an LLL challenge

Bubbler

Lol, then the port should work as-is

I was wondering if you're trying to do it in C/C++ or something, in which case things go wacky

@Anush Wdym by LLL?

emanresu A

@lyxal Oh, '

Wait no, Vyxal.pyn't

PyGamer0

07:55

in Dinoux Room, Oct 1 at 13:36, by Aaron Miller

This isn't the room I clicked on

@emanresuA python -m vyxal

emanresu A

Actaully, that might work

Works but doesn't let me pass flags

PyGamer0

python vyxal/__main__.py?

Bubbler

-m should have no problem accepting args

Transcript for