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00:06
@Λ̸̸o.
@Lyxal @Λ̸̸ ever say that to me...
why @Λ̸̸ ot?
;) ;)
@Lyxal It's @Λ̸̸ erdy.
I Do@Λ̸̸ 't think so.
I think it's rather @Λ̸̸ ice
;) ;) ;)
@Lyxal Anyway, do you know what my single-letter username is made of?
Λ ̸ and ̸
So it's still three characters.
00:11
You got it... But it still looks like a single letter.
You ca@Λ̸̸t trick me.
@Λ̸̸ot whe@Λ̸̸ I have a text editor
beat me to it @Lyxal -n-
@sporeball ¯\_(´• ◡ •`)_/¯
@sporeball What are you going to do? Make fun of my username?
i was going to say "probably nothing" and mention you but now i'm having second thoughts
00:15
Uhh, by the way, all these mentions are blocked for me.
I can't really recieve them in the notification bar.
@Λ̸̸ blocked how?
@Lyxal Just not recieving notifications. And I don't know why, probably because SE doesn't parse Zalgo correctly.
@Λ̸̸ Za͍̻̻̼̣̝͓̾̉͋͐͊͛̍l̥͚̥̙̖̗̆͌ͬ́ͮ̉g͍̭̹̭̜̹̩͈̹͎̙̙͎̓ͥͣͫ͊͑̾̇̑́̋ͥͭo̮͒̐ͅ tex̦ͦt̰̫̱̼͈̫͉͑̎̔ͦ̅̈́̊,͂̆̍̽̅̓̀̋̅̄ ̭̰͓͎̯͖̞̞̹͉y͉̪͍̩̟̜̅̋̎ͥ͊̋o̘̜̟̺͕̰̤ͯ͐̇̀ͮ́͋u̇̋̊̓͋̅ ̞̖̺͙͉̜̝̻̗̜̘̪͋̃ͩͨͬ͊̂ͩ̇͋̉̚̚ͅs̯̟͓͚͚̝̩̰͔̠̏ͧ͛̓ͥ̆ͫ̓̐̆̚ͅa̗̦̹̜̦͔͖͍ỷ̟̝͙̟̈̅̃.̩̣̟̟̼͕̩̳̟͍̳̜͕
T̩͇̺̟̖̫̣̹̊ͧ̓́ͪ́ͭ́w͉̞̬̱̌̾̅̚o͖̝̤̦̠͍̱̝̦ ̪̙̺̗ͣ̑̀̓c̞̞̫̻̺̻̱͎̅ͦ̅ͧ̐ͮ̊ͯȁ̎̍̌͌̅̾̃͛ṉ ̫̲̬̦̯̪̟͍͎̟̼͙̠͚̈ͭ̆ͣ̈́̍̂͐̔͐̿̅ͤ̊p̩̙̪̹̲͍͖̦̺̖͍͑̎̐ͯͧ͂͗̇͐ͤ̚l͙͍̻̈͛ͭay̖̲̻̙̻̼̭̲͕̽͗̅ͧͤͦͪ͂̑ t͔͙̬͔͆́ͫ͐ha͖̣̞̺̯͇ͮ͒̎̽̔͐ͭͅt̗̙̞͕͇͚̱͇͈̰͍̦̬ͣͣ̂̍ͦͥ͑͗̀̅̑̌͐̿ͅ ̘͉̫̠gam̗ͭe.̙̜̣̪̮͖̓ͭ̎̔ͭ̓
Ọ̳̮o͒p͔̮͔͂̍̾s̥̝̲͎͙̗̭̦̰͙͓͔̱͈͙͗́̀̎ͧͬ̉̑̍͊̓̐ͥ̔̚.͔̘̣͉̯͓ ̜̮̋̋T̊ͬ͆o͉͒̚ͅo̘͉̱͎̦̥̟ͣ̅ͫͤ̐̌̓ ̮͐m̭͙̹̭͈͚̮͖̊̃͑͊̇ͣ̒ͥẻ̠̳̳͖̣̄̿͛̔s̀̏ͪ͊̾̽̎́̇s̩̠͎͕̻̦͚͖y͎͗.̤̝̗͇̞͍͔̥͎͇̗̝ͥ̇̄̿͂͋ͭ̎̔̅͛͋
uh oh
heh
00:18
@Lyxal The scene is now too ominous. I'd better leave for my own life's sake.
indeed.
oh wow they weren't kidding.
I was joking indeed.
oh.
(Joking != Kidding)
okay that's enough off-topic conversation for one day
00:21
@Lyxal For example, if you ping a user with a username like that, the user won't recieve your notification.
Zalgo is beautiful by the way.
¯\_(´• _ •`)_/¯
\(^q')/
@Lyxal to "converse" is to talk with another person.
To "versate" is to transfer something to another position.
A "verse" is a part of an English text.
The prefix "con-" means to combine various things into a single thing.
The suffix -ation means the act of doing something.
 
3 hours later…
03:08
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

dingledooperIs It A Magic Square? code-golfsource-layoutgrid A magic square is an \$ n \times n \$ square grid, such that the sum of the integers on each row and column are equal. Note that the definition which will be used in this challenge is different than the one used by Wikipedia, since diagonal sums...

 
1 hour later…
04:19
5
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Λ̸̸Is the input Bl lu ur rr ry? code-golf string decision-problem This is based off this challenge. Given an input string, check whether the string is blurry. What's a blurry string? Take a non-blurrified string abc as an example. You repeat every character of this twice: aabbcc And then inse...

05:12
I'm trying to make a bounty for a practical language.
The practical language must be concise as well as making sure that only a few people are using it.
(APL definitely isn't an option: we already have an APL bounty and APL is very popular here.)
28
Q: Golfing Class of a language

Not that CharlesI feel like we may have enough data on this site to meaningfully break programming languages into classes. What I mean by classes is akin to Go's ranking system: If a player can win 90% of even games against a 2 kyu player, the AGA believes he or she is 1.33 ranks higher, the EGF believes (s...

Let's see... Forth achieves a pretty high score (876).
Tcl (the average of both scores) seems to be less concise than Forth.
Uhh, REXX achieves a higher score here. (901)
Powershell achieves a high score, but it's too popular here.
REXX has 127 answers...
REBOL has 199 answers and has an impressive score of 1010!
As for Forth, uhh, there are 498 answers.
Wow.. Mumps achieves 974 score with just 65 answers! It's definitely worth cultivation.
i wonder how long this query will run for now that i've started it
@sporeball Which query?
Candidates: Forth < REXX < Mumps < REBOL.
with CodeGolfQs as ( select distinct Id from Posts where ..., the one mentioned in the Elo ratings
ah there we go
05:28
Can you paste the result?
oh i was going to ask "how do i embed it properly" but i guess it doesn't
Let's see the answers/score ratio of these languages.
The smaller one is the winner.
aw, naz is nowhere to be seen in the rankings
i mean that's fair enough but i at least wanted to know how badly it scores :p
Forth: 498/876 = 0.5684931506849316
REXX: 127/901 = 0.14095449500554938
REBOL: 199/1010 = 0.19702970297029704
MUMPS: 65/974 = 0.06673511293634497
Uhh, looks like MUMPS is the most concise practical language so far, with the fewest answers...
@sporeball Did you check your query?
Looks like Pyke is more concise than Jelly. :)
I hope that 05AB1E is seeable somewhere over here.
The csv result seems huge.
05:46
yeah i checked it, but we can probably(?) chalk it up to me not knowing precisely how it works
I'm inferring from the golfing class output.
The flag) = programming language achieves a score of 1095! Well done!
Actually, I'm making a "declarative" practical language called flag) = in which source codes abuse flags to define behavior.
Great, what's the query result?
06:08
Jelly: 1881, Pyke: 1810, Pyth: 1741, Japt: 1703, Jolf: 1677, Actually: 1668
et cetera
06:36
Well, I refreshed the Elo ratings of languages.
@sporeball neither is Keg, and it performs relatively well
So I suspect it's too new.
@Lyxal 05AB1E is quite an old language. Given that it's very concise, it's still not on the list...
I'm going to query the csv myself...
@Lyxal Pyth's score has gone up recently, probably due to isaacg recently starting to use it.
06:52
It is based on the number of users
If there's less than 10 distinct users, it gets excluded
Hence why naz and Keg both don't show up
@Lyxal So how do I change this in the query?
You don't
It's in the processing program
There's definitely something in this Python program that does this exclusion.
You haven't found it yet?
It's literally the line CUTOFF = 10
Change the number and you change the limit.
Jelly:                                1789
Pyth:                                 1713
Pyke:                                 1683
Japt:                                 1624
Actually:                             1567
Jolf:                                 1562
MATL:                                 1527
CJam:                                 1498
K:                                    1472
J:                                    1472
gs:                                   1466
Dyalog APL:                           1457
No naz or Keg language here. (CUTOFF = 1)
Jelly:                                                                     1799
Pyth:                                                                      1712
Pyke:                                                                      1697
Japt:                                                                      1635
Actually:                                                                  1580
Jolf:                                                                      1571
MATL:                                                                      1534
CUTOFF = 0 here.
07:10
is it bad that i didn't know long messages have an option to (see full text) underneath them
Depends. How long have you been using SE chat?
i asked one question here on January 16th and then i don't think i really used chat again until i opened up Symbol Table
so depends on your definition of "using"
07:28
@sporeball when did you open Symbol Table?
April 9th @Lyxal
Then no it's not bad
Because you probably haven't seen many long text posts.
07:43
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Steve BennettComment: might be too similar to previous mutual quine challenge? Collaboration/quasi-quine challenge Write a valid submission (A) which prints the code for another competitor's valid submission (B). The languages used in A and B must be different. Clarifying rules If B prints the code for a ...

07:54
CMC: Output the time you answer this CMC without using digits from that time.
@Lyxal Date or time?
time
Precision to minutes, seconds, or milliseconds?
12/24 hour format are both acceptable
no. just hour and minute
Which time is it: the time when you started writing your program, or the time you submit your program?
07:56
submit
Canvas's gonna trivialize the question.
Local time
So whatever your clock says it is.
Mine's UTC+10ish
without using digits from that time.
so no.
did you not read that part.
also I see you're two hours behind my time.
@Λ̸̸ ^, ^^, ^^^ and ^^^^
Ahh perfect time to trivialize the question.
08:00
There you go
Amazing.
You are geographically to the west of where I am.
@Λ̸̸ aw it's sad.
hang on.
@Lyxal Because my CJam answer is invalid... it contains the character 1.
:54236992. Your program is sad.
there we go. no annoying n to deal with.
@Lyxal Not lower-case, it is capitalized.
08:03
@Lyxal 05AB1E, 17 bytes: Try it online!
should work for the next few minutes
@sporeball go to bed.
it's very late where you are
@sporeball You really should have some sleep.
@sporeball see even @Λ̸̸ agrees.
sporeball, did you immigrate to California?
no it's where i've always lived lol
08:05
you're still to the west of where i am
and you need to sleep now.
Me and @Λ̸̸ don't need to because it's only 6PM and 4PM for us respectively.
And I don't care what people like Adám say.
Because he says "sleep is overrated".
It isn't.
alright alright yes i'm going to sleep
2
see you all soon
2
YES!!!!!
@Λ̸̸ we did it!
*digital high fives @N*
While staying one and a half metres away of course.
;P
In fact, I don't like going to bed at 12AM.
@Λ̸̸ shhh. Don't say that
Don't encourage him.
08:11
I like doing it at 5PM.
Oh okay.
That was unexpected but sure.
@Λ̸̸ but I know you're lying.
Because you've been chatting around here at 8PM before (your time).
(Going to bed for 1 second)
Ah.
I see.
Well.
To beat my pillows and fight with my anxiety.
@Lyxal Why?
Because it's too h*cking close to the keys i want to press
and then i accidentally press the enter key when i don't want to
08:14
What I do is to break the enter key on my keyboard.
oh
I make a separate device with one button, dedicated to pressing the enter key.
Hey Steve, why couldn't you have moved the enter key higher?
@Lyxal Steve: For commercial purposes.
-5
Q: get your ex lover back in 30 hours

S.K Astro GuruS.K Shastri Ji is a Popular Astrologer in India and is renowned for his powerful vashikaran mantras. His services are reasonable for every one of those need to get rid of their complicated life problems. If you are one of those individuals who is entangled in the web of problems, at that point yo...

08:16
@Λ̸̸ Steve's dead.
@NewMainPosts Another downvoted question...
I thought I was forced to wield my FGITW skills.
@Λ̸̸ with a title like that, I highly doubt you would.
@Lyxal With an ex lover like that, I highly doubt that they will get it back.
@Λ̸̸ hmm.
I agree.
I'm gonna be afk for 20-30 mins.
See y'all soon!
Always be Fanatic and Keen!
Always Fanatic & Keen - afk
08:34
Okay I'm back
Back at my keyboard
oib
bamk

 chit-chatRoom

A room for discussion about everything.
wdykmpomp?
08:59

 chit-chatRoom

A room for discussion about everything.

 chit-chatRoom

A room for discussion about everything.
 
1 hour later…
10:21
I thnk Keg / naz not appearing on the list is due to a bug in the parser.
hi all
@Anush Hi Anush!
10:36
@Lyxal If you want Keg/naz to show up, you must first change all the headers...
Although I don't know how to get these headers matched.
11:03
is there a rule about who gets the bounty on a code-golf question?
> If you do not award your bounty within 7 days (plus the grace period), the highest voted answer created after the bounty started with a minimum score of 2 will be awarded half the bounty amount (or the full amount, if the answer is also accepted). [source]
@Adám That's a little mean. I was just wondering because the shortest solution is completely incomprehensible
so I can't judge its quality at all
@Anush Maybe tell ngn to fully explain the code if he wants the bounty. It is just an APL dialect, not very complicated at all.
11:46
@Anush you can arbitrarily decide who gets bounties in general. It's a code-golf question, why would you expect readable code?
 
2 hours later…
13:33
@dzaima You make a good point but.. I would expect at least one other person to be able to read the code
is that true for ngn's answer?
@Adám can you read the answer?
@Anush there's a high chance that there's noone of ppcg that can read Canvas code, are all my answers invalid? :p
@dzaima I will leave that question hanging... :)
@Anush I can certainly parse it, i.e. know which symbols form tokens, and which built-ins bind which. My main problem with K is that the built-ins are heavily overloaded, so I can never figure out which one of the many possibilities is being used. With a cheat sheet, I probably could. Translating it to APL should be rather trivial.
thanks all
my main question is if I should add a bounty to codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/204010/… to see if anyone can parallelise it. I am not sure how many high performance coders we have left on the site
and the existing code is pretty optimised
We used to have Ton Hospel, who was amazing
and someone who coded in nim
@Anush ngn might bite.
13:42
I feel in general the site hasn't recovered from the SO scandal
@Adám that would be cool
@Adám I should definitely give him/her the bounty in that case :)
@Anush a reason could be there's ±no reason to (not much has changed, as far as i'm concerned).
@dzaima I thought SO went so some lengths to try to solve the problem. I remember reading some messages from a new person they had hired
@Anush I think code golf has decreased globally. The new site on TopAnswers doesn't see much traffic either.
@Adám oh... half my question are coding challenges rather than code-golf. I don't know where else to ask them!
13:49
thanks!
how can you find all the speed challenges?
@Anush they also fired some people i would've trusted. to me their response is more of "ugh, fine, we'll do something" than genuine acknowledgement of any problems
topanswers.xyz doesn't list it as an option
@dzaima got you
@Anush Look at the hint in the search field: {speed challenge} should filter to only that type (though there are none yet).
@Anush What do you mean?
@Adám on that page there are categories in boxes. topanswers.xyz/cplusplus, topanswers.xyz/tex-mar-deva etc. I don't even see a search box!
@Anush Oh, those are separate communities, like the SE sites. Go to the code golf site. It is for other challenge types too, just like here.
13:55
@Adám that's more of a recursive "too small/scattered community" community problem, SE worked really well for atracting/keeping people in. iirc there was at least one other code-golf site that had appeared, and also Axtell (which seems to be mostly frozen unfortunately)
@Adám ok.. this interface needs work. There needs to be a link to list all the tags for example
@Anush The devs are very receptive. Participate in Meta, and you'll see changes soon.
wow that's broken. I just tried to join
it says I should record a long key. But you can't copy and paste it!
so now I have no record of it
@Anush you can see it in the user profile (but yeah, that's very unhelpful)
ok posted just two suggestions for the moment to Meta
is there some way to sort questions by different criteria?
their chat seems to be called The Nineteenth Byte??
14:07
@Anush i more find it interesting that the site-wide chat even has a name
@Adám another problem is moving. if i wanted to properly participate in TopAnswers, i'd have to set up a dark theme, and, this time, i don't have anything to base it off of.
(the problem before that being missing features, which can be seen above by Anush)
yes it seems to be missing a great big long list of simple and natural features currently
I had a friend who worked on google calendar
to this day I am not sure what they do all day :)
@Adám how do you set the tag before you ask the question? I can see how to do it afterwards.
actually.. I can't see how to do it at all any more
@Anush Just open the question's page, then click the tag adding thingy [+○)
@dzaima Requested.
14:24
@Adám I think I am being blind. Where do you see the tag adding things? imgur.com/a/n4lE2nh
@Anush As you mentioned, you can only do it after submitting/editing (and as I answered, I've requested the ability to do it before/during).
ah I see. Even afterwards is not that obvious. You can't do it from the "edit" screen either
Right. TA still has lots of rough edges, but the main page has improved a lot. If I understand correctly, the edit page is next up for an overhaul.
TA?
topanswers :)
TopAnswers.
Still, it is pretty impressive for (what I think is) only 2 devs. New features tend to take on the order of 6-8 days, with tweaks taking 6-8 hours. Compare that to SE…
14:28
are you one of the devs?
@Anush No, not at all. I've only made a lot of suggestions.
@Adám beside the tag thing, the edit page is probably the page of the site i like the most. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I really think they should focus all their efforts on usability for newcomers
maybe they are already of course
@Anush That requires feedback from newcomers ;-)
@Anush Look at the change log!
@Adám well yes and no. If the devs have no feeling for UI design I think the project is doomed to remain niche
14:33
@Anush That is indeed a valid concern. I was pretty taken aback with the UI at first.
15:12
I need help deciphering code in GAP please
Sum([ 1, 2, 2, 1 ]); equals 6 as you might expect
v:=List(sp,row->Sum(row,i->v[i])); equals [4,2] for reason I can't work out
sp equals [ [ 1, 2, 2, 1 ], [ 2, 2 ] ];
any ideas how you get [4,2]?
v is initialised to [1, 1];
in summary.. v:=[1,1]; sp:=[ [ 1, 2, 2, 1 ], [ 2, 2 ] ]; List(sp,row->Sum(row,i->v[i])); gives [4,2]. Why?
16:14
@dzaima minimum usage requirement acquired (or, well, at least the main page..)
(left-side red line is a screenshot artifact, no clue why that's there)
@Anush Sum(l,x->f(x)) sums all the values of f(x) with x in l
And List(l,x->f(x) returns a list of all the values of f(x)
@ChristianSievers thanks! I just worked that out. I am trying to work out what you are doing in res:=[];;v:=[1,1];;for i in [1..5] do v:=List(sp,row->Sum(row,i->v[i]));Add(res,v[initstate]);od;
can you explain it at a higher level? We are meant to be counting the number of strings of length n that can reach an accepting state
the first iteration just counts the lengths of the two columns with 0s removed
and outputs the first of these values as the count
so that just says that starting at state 1, how many different pairs return to some state. That is 4 and is clear
so now v = [4, 2]
The List/Sum thing is sparse matrix / vector multiplication
ah ok. So mathematically if the transition matrix is M we start with v = [1,1] and compute M*M*..*Mv ?
16:31
Yes. And taking v[initstate] is a short way to premultiply init, i.e. the 0-1 vector which identifies the initial state
cool. I am going to reimplement this part in Julia but that has sparse matrix-vector multiplication built in I believe
@ChristianSievers I don't know if you saw but Kaseorg's amazing code can compute the DFA for at least 16!
Yeah, it is amazing!
@ChristianSievers I did wonder if GAP might like that code now
How much memory did it take?
for 16 I am running it again at the moment to time it. Currently using 34GB RES and 44GB VIRT
it might go up a bit
I found a computer with a lot of RAM
this is using 32 bit ints everywhere. For 17 we might have to use 64 bit ints which will make everything much more expensive
16:41
I think they prefer to stay GAP-only. They have used code in other languages before, but this seems far outside its usual realm. They still might like to know about it, it's always good to have options.
How does memory usage compare to the GAP code?
GAP uses much more memory. Kaseorg's code seems to be ~400 times faster and use less than half as much memory
and it's not even parallel!
i am not sure exactly how much less memory it uses as I don't have a nice way to measure peak RAM usage
I just state at top :)
hmm.. let me try to get M right
1 2
2 0
2 0
1 2
if that is M then M*v can't be right
what should M be?
This seems to be the transition table
yes. What do we need M to be to perform the multiplications?
ah yes of course. let me try that
i-j-entry: how many ways to get from state i to j
sorry that was meant to be a reply above
16:51
(or from j to i, I never remember)
both is possible, one just has to adapt the rest of the computation
[[2, 2], [2, 0]] it seems
this still doesn't work
yes. And the sparse representation doesn't directly allow 2 as entry, so has repetitions
what are you trying? This should be correct
I just doing it with maths and no code currently
Say M = [[2, 2], [2, 0]] and v = [1,1]
then M*v = [12, 8]
oops
let me try again...
M*v = [4, 2]
M*(M*v) = [12, 8]
M*(M*(M*v)) = [40,24]
and we want [ 4, 12, 32,...] I believe
this is for k = 1
oh, I think that should be [[2,2],[0,2]]
of course!
thanks so much. I will now learn how to program in Julia :) I have never done it before but it seems a good excuse. Hopefully the sparse matrix vector multiplication will be fast
17:04
Good luck!
17:54
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Gábor FeketeIntegers in cosine From trigonometry we know that sin(a) = cos(a + pi/2) Instead of pi/2 we could use integers that are near the actual value of sin(a). The task For an input of a positive integer n calculate the value of the integer with n digits that is the closest to satisfy the sin(a) =...

18:21
Thank you
18:41
Toying with a golf language idea where the minimum unit is a bit instead of a byte, and figured out a cool way to delimit a Unicode string. You only need 2 bits to declare the end of one, as a bonus
10xxxxxx is the bit pattern used for "tail" bytes in a UTF-8 character, and is not legal on it's own, so simply delimit the string with the illegal 10 bit pattern
as long as all characters within it are legal, this works perfectly
I wonder if languages with an alternate codepage could take advantage of that
10xxxxxx is enough room to stick 64 possible operations after a UTF8 string
this place is a lot deader than I remember.
0
Q: Base-phi converter time!

AndrewThe Golden Ratio Bureau is obsessed with this new thing they call base-phi. You see it and decide to code-golf, as is your natural instinct. To be specific, base-phi is a number system like base 10, except it uses the number phi, or the golden ratio, as its base. A ones digit would be x*10^y, bu...

19:01
https://codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/18894/61379
^-- opinions?
I'm unsure of the scoring criterion, feedback is appreciated
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Krzysztof SzewczykA malbolge interpreter The challenge today is to write a Malbolge interpreter. Specification Malbolge '98, Ben Olmstead I hereby relenquish any and all copyright on this language, documentation, and interpreter; Malbolge is officially public domain. ------------------------------------------...

 
1 hour later…
20:21
2
Q: Counting hypercube Tetris pieces

Peter KageyConsider the Tetris pieces, but made out of some number of (hyper)cubes instead of four squares, where two blocks are considered the same if one is a rotation, reflection, or translation of another. The goal of this challenge is to take two positive integer input values, n and k, and count the nu...

21:10
@ChristianSievers 16 has made it up to 70GB RES and 99GB VIRT now
 
2 hours later…
22:49
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

LyxalBinary Reduce a List By Addition With a Right Bias code-golfnumber Here's a challenge that shouldn't take y'all any longer than 10 minutes using a practical/golfing language: Given a list of strictly positive integers, sum the first and last half of the list, with the middle element being cou...

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23:37
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A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

RGSIs this a valid APL train? code-golf sequence decision-problem apl Context In APL, trains are tacit sequences of monadic/dyadic functions that can be called with one or two arguments. We'll code something to check if a given train follows the correct structure we need in order to have a sound t...


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