The Nineteenth Byte

@Pavel idk, I remember it had some kind of the stuff. Personally I don't write in any of Java, Kotlin and C#

so idk

@NathanMerrill I thought the default value was returned using the Elvis operator ?: instead of ?? ?

It sure had @Nullable and @Notnull (awful tho)

x --> 4 arrow operator best operator

@Okx what does this one do?

7:03 PM

it's (x--) > 4

(there are way too many arrow operators ಠ_ಠ)

@Soaku One of those was part of an internal Sun api and the other was a Jetbrains annotation

@J.Sallé AFAIK, ?: as a single operator isn't a thing

@Pavel what Nathan did. something?.doSomething()?.doSomethingElse() returns null if doSomethingElse() returns null

?? does a null check and returns the RHS if null

7:04 PM

@Okx ಠ_ಠ

@J.Sallé Java doesn't have ?.

@J.Sallé it does? As of when?

you can make it the x ----> 4 operator to go down faster

ಠಠ__ಠಠ

You have to manually make null checks

7:05 PM

x -----> 4 is also valid

:D

@Soaku It's just the -- operator followed by the > operator.

oh my god, stop

@NathanMerrill nevermind, I think that only works when you're using the Optional object

yeah. I never made null checks in my Java code. It's far easier to simply avoid nulls everywhere then trying to deal with "what can be null"

Or in this case, multiple -- operators

7:06 PM

@Pavel ikr

x(--)(--)(-) > 4

@Soaku So you could never capture an instance of the class, rather, the instance would be created (i.e. the constructor called), then immediately destructed (i.e. the deconstructor called)?

@J.Sallé That operator doesn't exist. Optional objects are great, but you still can't do ?.

tio.run/##XYzBCsIwEETPm6/…

@Adám Huh

7:06 PM

@NathanMerrill I might be mixing it up with Groovy? idk I've worked with it for some time

@Adám ?

@J.Sallé Yeah, you might be thinking of other JDK languages (I think most of them have that)

C# is still better though :)

I don't know Groovy, but both Scala and Kotlin are far better at null handling

@NathanMerrill yeah it's Groovy, just checked. ?. returns null if the following methods return null and ?: returns the rhs arg

7:08 PM

IIRC, Go doesn't have null. It has zero values. (aka falsy)

the almighty ----> works in C/C++ too. Greedy parsing means it'll be used as (--)(--)> instead of (-)(--)(->)

@Pavel How would you know if (a b)←⎕NEW Foo(12 42) should only call the constructor (and thus a and b become refs to the new instance) or if it should also call the deconstructor (and thus a and b split the deconstructor's result between them)?

@Soaku ^

@Okx isn't that just the same as (x--)>4?

@Adám Are you sure you are sending it to the correct person?

@Adám To get the former, one should do a←b←⎕NEW Foo(12 42) if there's a Deconstructor

7:10 PM

@Soaku Oh, sorry.

@Adám no problem

Read: I had no idea (a b)←scalar was a thing

@Soaku The new messages came in so fast that from the time I decided to click, until I did so, the screen had scrolled.

@Pavel It is called scalar extension. Since object refs have to abide by the normal array distribution rules, you can't use that to disambiguate.

funfact: you can also make a kebab. -(x--)> 14

~~running very fast now~~

I guess I'll stick with the default property way

7:15 PM

funny thing that <=> is officially named the spaceship operator in PHP

It's really useful in sorting algorithms tho

It's called that in C++ 20, too

Aliens got nice sorting technology, I guess

Generally you can just use - though

<=> makes code way shorter anyways

@Pavel Hopefully, we'll get magic arrays in 18.0 (i.e. next year). They behave like arrays externally, but have class-like code internally.

7:20 PM

Ooh

while ( (x = -(-(--x)--))> -10) {

now i want to make a golf challange to parse and execute code kebabs

please do

yes, one kebab please

o7 will do. Time to make everyone hungry

Erik the Outgolfer

@Scrooble the \[...\] takes care of that

@EriktheOutgolfer That one appears to exclude [], hence the (stuff)?. — Scrooble 3 mins ago

7:25 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer No, I meant that yours doesn't match just [].

Erik the Outgolfer

ah

but the regex in the question is still kind of incorrect, no?

@moonheart08 I'm hungry, can't wait for NSP to come

@EriktheOutgolfer Right, the first space and ? are extra, it would appear.

@moonheart08 Hmm, you now inspired me to make KebabFuck programming language

4

o no

7:30 PM

Ono

oh i shouldn't have started this

sorry

@Okx great job you bastard /s

now i'm hungry :p

also, i'm the one who brought up kebabs.

Not a lot of opportunites to get kebabs over here, unfortunatly

same here. I only know they exist because of the state fair lol

7:35 PM

KF interpreter written in C would be named KFC

Actually, I think I've only ever eaten kebabs made by my Uncle. My Uncle lives in Russia, I see him once every other year or so.

The Kebabs are delicious though.

@Soaku what have i done

kebabs

inb4 kebabs becomes the new waffles

~~People are going to wonder what the hell happened over the last few minutes. also did you notice this text is a kebab too?~~

xD

7:37 PM

@Soaku Hit me with some specification ;)

this is probably my favorite TNB discussion yet

I've seen better

It involved guinea pigs, narnia, and genetics research

Jun 1 '17 at 19:28, by trichoplax

In the absence of any predators, I assume the Wood Between The Worlds is now almost entirely filled with guinea pigs

oh. i remember that.

well, narnia at least

yes, that is probably correct

which part of narnia was it?

5? 6?

Wood Between The Worlds, first book i'm pretty sure.

7:41 PM

@moonheart08 the first book was the wardrobe, lion and the witch or something like that

Who knows then

I don't have the books in front of me

:P

~~plus i read them ages ago, not any time recently~~

The Magician's Nephew is chronologically first and is first in the reccommended reading order

Pro tip: Don't try to copy tables

Yea that's the one

@mbomb007 That is how I get when my grandma invites me for dinner.

I'm sorry. You don't want to click the link

7:45 PM

There's nothing there yet tho

no implementation? I'm sorry, it doesn't hurt whatsoever. :p

@mbomb007 O_O no, this is a democracy!

i think @flawr is trying to ignore the current topic by scrolling way up

Nothing can stop the kebabs though

Kebabs are forever

~~are we taking this too far? We're taking it too far.~~

7:47 PM

We do

anyways. @Dennis this may or may not require cleanup

The kebabs got out of control

kebwhat?

Erik the Outgolfer

@moonheart08 I think he just replied to a reply that got directed to him during him being off-line or something

@EriktheOutgolfer shh

@flawr kebabs temporarily took over chat.

7:48 PM

@flawr kebabs

yknow, these:
-x--> 8
2 <-(-(--x)--))
-x-x-x--> -10
--x> 255

@moonheart08 of course!

(By the way, the 2 <-(-(--x)--)) one is a valid condition for a C/C++ while loop)

but won't KebabF be basically JS limited to a set of characters?

Meh

7:55 PM

@Pavel Is that short for @DJMcMaymeh?

DJMcMayhmmmm

DJMcMaynothmmm

@flawr clearly

@Soaku DJMcHastohmmm

@DJMcMayhem there might be a bit of a mess left over from kebabs taking over chat. Just a headsup so you can clean up as needed

:P

7:59 PM

@moonheart08 shh

@flawr -shh-->

how should control flow look like in KF?

i have no idea

@Soaku KF = KFC without chicken?

vegan KFC?

25 mins ago, by Soaku

KF interpreter written in C would be named KFC

KebabF

quartata

8:02 PM

nethackwiki.com/wiki/Kebabable ?

(1st star)

@quartata wtf?

quartata

I don't know you said kebab

I didn't know context and assumed Nethack

It's a fair assumption

Nope, it's in the context of code kebabs. Aka a really dumb way of decrementing a number and comparing it.
2 <-(-(--x)--))

(--x--) is a bee

or a drone

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

or a syntax error, because x-- takes precedence, and --(x--) causes an error

New Sandboxed Posts

8:18 PM

0

-(-(--x)--))> Code Kebabs! <-(-(--x)--)) Your goal is to parse Code Kebabs, they look like this: -x--> 8 2 <-(-(--x)--)) -x-x-x--> -10 --x> 255 A Code Kebab is made up of 3 parts, the stick, the tip (< and >), and the stand (the number compared by) stick tip stand --x-- > -5 The stick...

Q: Perl - convert ASCII art to use x operator

8:52 PM

@moonheart08 What do you think?

New Main Posts

9:10 PM

0

I would like to convert ASCII art to something that takes less bytes. I have string like this: my $string = ' ██ ████ █'; And I would convert this to something like this: print "█" x 1."█" x 1."█" x 1"█" x 1"█" x 1; So I would write this in one line and convert to using x...

Updated the wiki now, if anyone have read it.

Reverse = 123 -> 321?

umm, reverse sign

Ah.

...That makes much more sense.

updated

9:12 PM

Perhaps "negate"?

You're right, that would be the word

Why does [[[-[[x]]]--]] eval to [5, 5, -5, 4] instead of [5, 5, -5, -6]?

Thought I might as well make a room for this to avoid spamming TNB.

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/76813/kebabf

mbomb007

9:32 PM

Does this answer fulfill this indefinite bounty?

H.PWiz

I doubt it. using dc doesn't really count

mbomb007

Idk GNU sed.

H.PWiz

dc is a coreutil I think

@Soaku Does () effectively end the program without executing anything more? For example, does ()(x-x) terminate without ever printing zero?

If so, I have a draft of a truth machine.

@Soaku 0/10 no implementation

Dennis

9:46 PM

@H.PWiz No, dc is part of the bc package, which isn't included in the coreutils.

H.PWiz

My mistake, still seperate from sed though

@ASCII-only KFC's coming once I have full specs and learn C.

@Scrooble 0/10 you don't know C yet? :P

ok @Soaku are character codes modded by 128/256 before output

@Soaku also... can't you just store the result of (a) and (c) to avoid slowdowns...

@Soaku also. do < and > only point to other top-level statements? i.e. you can't point to nested statements?

@Soaku also. what happens if you have >3 inputs :|

mbomb007

@ASCII-only codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5243/…

New Bounties With No Deadlines

@mbomb007 ah. oops :| (well, i'm in TNB basically all the time, but yeah I should really do that >_>)

10:16 PM

0

A: List of bounties with no deadline

250 and 500 rep for the next two decent TIO Hello, World! golfs "Decent" here meaning in beating any solution on this page by at least 25%. Bounty may be awarded if under 25% if solution is especially impressive (subjective) - for example, if golfing in a language is particularly difficult. Not...

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Can You Make This String With These Boggle Dice? satisfiability decision string fastest-code In Boggle, there are a number of dice with letters on them which can be placed in numerous permutations. Because each die can be only one of six letters, not all layouts of letters are possible. This ...

Dennis

@NewBountiesWithNoDeadlines adds Hello World builtin to Jelly

5

@Dennis I should totally add HW, Fizz Buzz, 99BB and 12 Days of Christmas builtins to Charcoal :P

also that just reminded me that i really need to fix something in Charcoal

Dennis

🎶 On the second day of Fizzbuzz, my true love sent to me... 🎶

@Soaku There is now a KF answer on the site!

And no longer. Whoops.

10:33 PM

@Dennis The day after that it's "On the Fizzth day of FizzBuzz" :P

Downgoat

11:32 PM

@NewBountiesWithNoDeadlines @ASCII-only u should definetly award to VSL :3 10/10 is very impress

@Downgoat :| but VSL HW can't be golfed (well, yet)

Downgoat

> Code Golf: Design pls
> Philosophy: Design pls
> Law: Design pls
> Cars: Design pls
> Finance: Design pls
> SE: I think we should move the navigation bar to the left side of the page

15

Anime has been waiting the longest, a couple more weeks than us.

@Downgoat SE: You will get your designs ASAP, just design team is undergoing changes so ASAP will be 6-8 ~~weeks~~ seasons

Downgoat

it's been more than 10 seasons at this point