The Nineteenth Byte

New Main Posts

18:14

3

Q: Continued Fraction of Digit-wise Sum of Square Roots

Introduction Your task is to generate the first 1000 terms in the continued fraction representation of digit-wise sum of square root of 2 and square root of 3. In other words, produce exactly the following list (but the output format is flexible) [2, 6, 1, 5, 7, 2, 4, 4, 1, 11, 68, 17, 1, 19, ...

label a -- goto a

I've been looking at different languages and this is often really different: what would be better? function, func or what?

Pavel

Funky allows both. Funky is also not a great language.

@labela--gotoa For defining functions, I like def

HyperNeutrino

make everything lambdas

label a -- goto a

I think def is ambiguous, it can mean anything, define variable, function, class... and I would prefer to avoid it. :/

Nonononono

@HyperNeutrino Lambdas is one of the things my language target is to avoid ಠ_ಠ

HyperNeutrino

a = (arg1, arg2) => arg1 + arg2 instead of function a(arg1, arg2) { return arg1 + arg2; }

label a -- goto a

18:22

It's OOP

HyperNeutrino

@labela--gotoa 0/10 ಠ_ಠ :P /s

label a -- goto a

@HyperNeutrino But seriously, I it has a nice workaround for lambdas, and I'd prefer to keep it as it is, not like in js:

function(){
 call(function(){
   otherfunction(function(){})
 })
}

@HyperNeutrino and it's OOP, defining methods with lambdas could be... painful

Pavel

func > function

HyperNeutrino

hm ok

but like even java has lambdas :P

although they're dumb and you can't call them

label a -- goto a

but you don't define methods with lamdas, still :P

there are lamdas, but they are... hidden, like ninjas

Pavel

18:25

Java lambdas are extraordinarily dumb, and they stand for anonymous objects implementing an interface, not a function.

label a -- goto a

ohohkay

Mr. Xcoder

I like func

label a -- goto a

Well, I was thinking a lot about what would be better, function or func, but I think you have got me into using func :P

long function definitions look bad and function makes it easier to make them long :P

Mr. Xcoder

Swift also uses func, for reference.

If you want to be golfy, then fun also works :P

ಠ_ಠ SML uses fun

label a -- goto a

haha, fun is fun :P

but about "golfiness" of the language - it's so bad in this case that it won't win even a single challenge :P

Not that you need long statements to do something basic, function names are short, but a simple script requires at least 2 files to work :/

Mr. Xcoder

18:29

@labela--gotoa If you want it to be practical, that's a good sign

label a -- goto a

Unless if anyone suggested a simplified scoring system for it

wtf

SE, what are you doing

Erik the Outgolfer

huh

label a -- goto a

Wild laggy Internet appeared!

Nathan Merrill

hey, anybody in here know how consoles work?

label a -- goto a

@Mr.Xcoder I'm not sure, maybe I could improve it, but script-attaching system is inspired by Godot Engine, and you need at least one layout element with the script attached to it, so it can run

orlp

18:33

@NathanMerrill define work

and define consoles

Nathan Merrill

lol

I'm running cmd

HyperNeutrino

define know /s

orlp

oh THAT console

PhiNotPi

So I just enabled the userscript for the first time in a long time. Forgot how different everything looks.

Nathan Merrill

at work, I run this command called "init". I have no idea what it does

orlp

18:34

I thought you meant like an xbox

Nathan Merrill

but it puts me in a different console

orlp

@NathanMerrill init is not a standard command in cmd.exe

Nathan Merrill

I know

label a -- goto a

@PhiNotPi Which one, may I ask? :P

orlp

@NathanMerrill where init

Nathan Merrill

18:34

that's not my question

Mr. Xcoder

@labela--gotoa github.com/vihanb/PPCG-Design

orlp

no, but it helps to answer your question

label a -- goto a

ah, this one

Nathan Merrill

basically, it creates a "sub-console".

what's the term for a sub-console

orlp

child shell

but where is init located?

label a -- goto a

18:36

pretty how long it would take the "userscript" to be official :/

The site should already have design, and it doesn't.

Nathan Merrill

@orlp its specific to my work. It's an internal program

orlp

alright, is it then a batch file?

have you tried opening it up?

Nathan Merrill

yeah, I believe so

Erik the Outgolfer

@labela--gotoa you're not the first to complain about it :P

New Main Posts

0

Q: We do Tower Hopping

Task You will be given a Collection (array, list ...) and have to check if you can jump outside of the Collection with a minimum of jumps! Jump outside of the array...? Ya' dumb? Jumping outside means if our index >= Array.size Initial you will always begin from index 0 Each of these val...

code-golf path-finding algorithm

label a -- goto a

18:36

@EriktheOutgolfer I know it, I know it :P

orlp

@NathanMerrill generally people have some sort of 'environment'

Nathan Merrill

it is a batch file

orlp

which sets environment variables

Nathan Merrill

yep

orlp

such as PATH

also, are you sure it creates a child shell

or does it just set a bunch of environment variables?

Nathan Merrill

18:37

it does create some sort of sub-shell. My prompt is different

orlp

does not necessarily mean sub shell

try init and then typing exit

does that exit the command prompt?

Nathan Merrill

exit closes everything

yeah

orlp

then you're not in a child shell

it just sets up some environment variables

Nathan Merrill

how does that change my prompt then?

is that just one of the variables?

orlp

echo %PROMPT%

then init

and echo %PROMPT% again

Nathan Merrill

18:39

yeah, its different

orlp

by the way I use clink, which is basically a hack for cmd.exe

my %PROMPT% is empty

but my prompt looks like this

5 c > programming > python > snakeviz | echo %PROMPT%

clink allows you to write a lua script to give the prompt

clink in general is amazing

Nathan Merrill

is it a terminal or a console? Because I really like conemu

orlp

it's neither

it's a monkeypatch of cmd.exe

Nathan Merrill

oooh, it has auto-completion of git

orlp

basically it injects itself into the cmd.exe process

Nathan Merrill

18:42

yeah, that looks like what I want

orlp

@NathanMerrill my shell on windows consists of a global floating terminal that pops up when I press Win + `

where ctrl+1 through 9 give 9 different shells

fully customized, spent a while on it :P

Nathan Merrill

where do I go to modify it

orlp

"it"?

Nathan Merrill

nvm, I found the documentation

thanks :)

this is already better

Tab automatically adds the / or shows all of the available options

Mr. Xcoder

Is it just me or the new challenge's page loads extremely slow, but the rest of SE works just fine?

label a -- goto a

18:55

@Mr.Xcoder PPCG doesn't seem to work for me

oh, it loaded

Mr. Xcoder

It does work for me.

label a -- goto a

but it's slow

maybe it's just my internet

Mr. Xcoder

But We do Tower Hopping is just extremely slow

label a -- goto a

not for me

AdmBorkBork

@EriktheOutgolfer Your comment on my sandbox post is somewhat true. Do you have any ideas on how to fix that? I guess I wouldn't say that it's trivialized by doing one column each, but it's certainly easier.

Mr. Xcoder

18:58

@Giuseppe Yeah because they: 1) Don't know how to properly format their posts 2) Don't know how to clearly define the tasks 3) Don't master English too well either, so they tend to misunderstand the comments as far as I can see. 4) They don't want to use the Sandbox :(

But I like the idea :(

Erik the Outgolfer

19:09

@AdmBorkBork well, maybe leave it upon the solver to choose either left-to-right or right-to-left for each pen, but require that there are 10 sheep in the last row before making a new one

label a -- goto a

I think I should write a script that will limit my access to PPCG, I sit too much there

Conor O'Brien

of all of the trends to come to PPCG, "snake programming" outside of "python" was not very high on my list

Erik the Outgolfer

heh, at least it's a lot better than burning private property :P

label a -- goto a

haha\

Conor O'Brien

or alphabets

HyperNeutrino

19:12

@EriktheOutgolfer arson is fun /s

Erik the Outgolfer

eh, I assume we do not want to encourage criminal activities

Anonymous

@labela--gotoa I have a button that will do that :P Granted, we generally aren't allowed to use it for user requests of helping them manage their time

label a -- goto a

when you guys write "/s", always the first thing I think about is a regex flag .-.

Anonymous

Regex flags use backslashes though

label a -- goto a

no?

Erik the Outgolfer

19:14

@Mego what?

Οurous

@labela--gotoa I'm like "what command flag is that"

Erik the Outgolfer

no, that's usually not true

xfix

in Perl, you write /regex/flags

similarly in JavaScript

label a -- goto a

@Οurous It's single-line, that \n is also matched by a dot

xfix

(also Ruby, PHP and probably more languages i don't rembember)

Anonymous

19:15

Ohhh, I was thinking about matching groups

Anonymous

Like \s for whitespace

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mego how did you manage to learn a lot of such rules mods must follow in a so short time? o_o

Conor O'Brien

@Mego I feel like that's happened before, I think downgoat (?) was kicked for a week by request for exams?

label a -- goto a

haha, that are not what's called flags :P

Anonymous

@EriktheOutgolfer Have you ever read/seen A Clockwork Orange?

Erik the Outgolfer

19:16

...old people stuff again? absolutely no clue

Anonymous

@ConorO'Brien From my understanding, we can do it, but it's generally suggested not to

Οurous

@labela--gotoa Yeah, I know, I meant more that it looks like a windows shell built-in flag

label a -- goto a

@Οurous This too :P

New Main Posts

1

Q: Turn Your Program into a Snake!

...or "snakes but not too long". Inspired by this challenge and this comment. Task Write a program or a function that takes no input and outputs its own source code formatted as a snake according to the rules below: If your code has any whitespace, it will not be output; it will just be skip...

code-golf ascii-art random quine

Anonymous

@EriktheOutgolfer Oh good grief. It's a classic novel/film.

label a -- goto a

19:16

But I prefer dashes

another snake

Anonymous

In the book (and film), the main character is subjected to the "Ludovico Technique" of behavioral modification, which includes, amongst other things, being forced to watch films by holding his eyes open and his head in place

Anonymous

It's referenced/alluded to a lot in other places

Erik the Outgolfer

honestly, I've never heard of such a thing before...yeah, the generation gap is evident :/

Anonymous

I'm not even that old yet >_>

AdmBorkBork

@EriktheOutgolfer That's a good idea and a nice compromise. Thanks!

@Mego But you're a mod, now. That automatically adds like 10 years to your actual age.

Anonymous

19:24

@AdmBorkBork So Doorknob can drink and vote?

Anonymous

I should tell him. He'll be ecstatic

AdmBorkBork

On PPCG, yes. Hopefully mod powers don't translate to the real world.

Anonymous

Too late, I already sent him a voter ID card and a cask of whiskey

DJMcMayhem

@Mego I can't even drink yet

Anonymous

@DJMcMayhem I thought you were older than me o_O

DJMcMayhem

19:27

Wait really? That's actually really funny

Anonymous

Seriously

DJMcMayhem

Actually?

:P

Anonymous

And of course, you come around right as I have to get back to work :P

Martin Ender

@Mego on an unrelated note, how much do you regret your language's names?

Erik the Outgolfer

@AdmBorkBork like, drinking and driving? oh god

Anonymous

19:29

@MartinEnder Yes

label a -- goto a

lol

dzaima

I need a 2 key macro that prompts me a number and then writes ಠ_ಠ with that many underscores

Anonymous

@dzaima Let's not

Anonymous

Oct 15 '16 at 20:33, by Martin Ender

New rule proposal: the number of _ in ಠ_ಠ represent the number of minutes of suspension you are asking for.

label a -- goto a

@Mego what's that key in your "about me"

? :p

just curious

Anonymous

19:33

@labela--gotoa It's one of my RSA public keys

label a -- goto a

whatever

Pavel

@Mego ಠಠ

9

Erik the Outgolfer

yeah that's kind of a loophole

Mr. Xcoder

I want to see a part 2 of this :(

label a -- goto a

me too :/

mınxomaτ

19:50

→ 10 messages moved to Trash

Erik the Outgolfer

thanks

DJMcMayhem

@Mr.Xcoder Then you should write it! :)

Mr. Xcoder

@DJMcMayhem I'd write it for you or Mego if I would

Because it's a good moment :)

AdmBorkBork

lol, I just had a ticket come through where a printer wouldn't scan-to-email. After a lot of investigation, I found that the clock on the printer was set to 1989, so it thought the TLS certificate in use was out of date.

DJMcMayhem

@Mr.Xcoder I'd love that.

Martin Ender

19:54

oh and I already expected that sentence to end with "so the printer thought scan-to-email wasn't invented yet"

Mr. Xcoder

Well I must find something interesting about your usernames / ids.

AdmBorkBork

@MartinEnder Just about.

Mr. Xcoder

I kinda already did, but it's not worth posting to main.

... And ask Hyper first

Erik the Outgolfer

@DJMcMayhem pssst, what if it's about Mego instead?

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer He can still love it, no?

label a -- goto a

19:55

my first kick. ... no, I'm not inserting this smile again.

I should go away from here anyway

AdmBorkBork

CMC: When "DJMcMayhem" is converted to ASCII numerals, it has a palindromic sublist of palindromes -- 77 99 77. Given a string, return a truthy value if there exists such a palindromic sublist, and a falsey value otherwise.

DJMcMayhem

@Mr.Xcoder Does it have to be decreasing by one?

Mr. Xcoder

@DJMcMayhem Yes. I did say consecutive.

Erik the Outgolfer

@AdmBorkBork Jelly, 5 bytes: ẆŒḂ€Ẹ

DJMcMayhem

Shoot

V, 19 bytes, but doesn't check for consecutiveness: Try it online!

Poke

20:07

If any of you use github (lul) you might want to be aware of githubengineering.com/crypto-removal-notice

Mr. Xcoder

V really sucks at anything not related to strings, right?

DJMcMayhem

Yup

Mr. Xcoder

I think that's a direct consequence of Vim ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

AdmBorkBork

@EriktheOutgolfer I get 0 for any input I give it, including truthy values, like DJMcMayhem.

Erik the Outgolfer

@AdmBorkBork the input is given through the command-line arguments, although there's a 1-byte equivalent to it too: 1

label a -- goto a

20:10

I had one vid on channel, it got +7 votes and resulted in 10 subs on channel. I uploaded a new one, and it has +6 rn, but what's weird, two people already gave -1 and then changed to +1 [illegal smile here]

AdmBorkBork

@EriktheOutgolfer OK, using command-line arguments, it now gives a 1 for everything.

Erik the Outgolfer

sure, shouldn't it?

AdmBorkBork

Why would every string be truthy?

Erik the Outgolfer

> there's a 1-byte equivalent to it too: 1

because length-1 sublists are always palindromic :P

AdmBorkBork

No, you can't concatenate the ASCII numerals together

Erik the Outgolfer

20:13

a more correct version would be OŒḂ€Ẹ

...concatenate?

DJMcMayhem

@Mr.Xcoder Really really ugly and convoluted, but here ya go. V, 29 bytes: òó±òæ_Äé¬lldv$0D@"Ø^¨©î±$

AdmBorkBork

So something like Test is 84, 101, 115, 116, which doesn't have a palindromic sublist of palindromes

DJMcMayhem

@AdmBorkBork Sure it does: [101]

AdmBorkBork

lol I dun goofed

OK, how about task -- 116, 97, 115, 107. That should be falsey.

Erik the Outgolfer

@DJMcMayhem me too!

orlp

20:17

@Mego how old are you?

Mr. Xcoder

@orlp 23.

orlp

@Mr.Xcoder I asked mego though :P

Mr. Xcoder

ಠ_ಠ

label a -- goto a

@Mr.Xcoder You used the "illegal" smile! ಠ_ಠ (jk)

DJMcMayhem

@EriktheOutgolfer Not quite. It just has to have one character that's a palindrome

Erik the Outgolfer

20:18

5 mins ago, by Erik the Outgolfer

a more correct version would be OŒḂ€Ẹ

Mr. Xcoder

Nope, the input just has to be non-empty.

In which case a correct answer is L

DJMcMayhem

@Mr.Xcoder No. What about this:

2 mins ago, by AdmBorkBork

OK, how about task -- 116, 97, 115, 107. That should be falsey.

Mr. Xcoder

Ah, sublist of palindromes.

DJMcMayhem

There are plenty of palindromic sublists, but there are no sublists of palindromes

Poke

Feb 6 at 16:52, by Mego

@Mr.Xcoder Nailed it

moonheart08

20:21

I successfully made TPT crash before it could even load it's own GUI

RIP

AdmBorkBork

See, this is why it's a CMC rather than a full challenge.

Mr. Xcoder

CMP: Is it just me or functional languages are harder to learn than golfing languages?

Martin Ender

how are "functional languages" and "golfing languages" even two comparable categories?

AdmBorkBork

Functional golfing language.

Mr. Xcoder

They are comparable when it comes to how hard they are to learn :P

Οurous

20:24

@MartinEnder especially because there's an overlap

Martin Ender

esolangs.org/wiki/Clip

Οurous

@Mr.Xcoder imperative languages are confusing.

Pavel

@Mr.Xcoder just you

@Οurous They really aren't. You say what thing to do and the thing gets done.

orlp

@Mr.Xcoder I can't seem to grok Jelly

DJMcMayhem

Declarative languages are confusing

Mr. Xcoder

20:25

Who designed Clip?

Martin Ender

Ypnypn

orlp

@DJMcMayhem whenever I use prolog

Martin Ender

I mean, there's also Husk...

Mr. Xcoder

Oh for a moment I thought you made a couple of typos :)

orlp

I just feel like I'm not giving it enough information to be efficient

Pavel

20:26

@DJMcMayhem Agreed

orlp

which makes it feel weird

Οurous

@Pavel disclaimer: I went from Batch to Cobra / Clean. My view on imperative languages may be reversed from normal.

orlp

but SQL doesn't feel that weird

DJMcMayhem

True, SQL is fine.

orlp

@Οurous I like an imperative style for functions

and composing functions in a functional style

I don't think solely using one or the other is wise

Οurous

20:28

@orlp thats how I write Clean for the most part.

DJMcMayhem

Are there any purely imperative languages?

Pavel

SQL is a pain. It isn't confusing, it's just annoying.

orlp

@DJMcMayhem assembly

Pavel

ANSI C, maybe.

orlp

@Pavel C has functions and function pointers

it's not very pretty

Pavel

20:31

@orlp Assembly has subroutines

DJMcMayhem

So where is the line between Has functions, and Is functional?

orlp

@Pavel no it doesn't?

@DJMcMayhem at the I'd say something like en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-class_function

@Pavel it has a jump (goto) instruction

Pavel

There are sub and ret instructions.

orlp

@Pavel sub? what instruction set are you talking about here

AdmBorkBork

Huh. TIL that PowerShell has functional programming elements in it.

orlp

20:33

ret is just a shorthand for jumping back to the last address on the stack

(that you manually put there)

Pavel

@orlp sorry, CALL. SUB is subtraction

In x86

orlp

@Pavel yeah call doesn't do what you think it does probably

DJMcMayhem

@orlp In that case, C is a somewhat functional language (though mostly imperative)

Pavel

@orlp it calls a procedure

orlp

@Pavel yeah no

call is just a shorthand for push ip and jump

it doesn't pass parameters

save your registers

or basically anything that you could reasonably constitute as a 'procedure'

Pavel

20:35

That's still calling a procedure

orlp

except it's not? a procedure has to be self contained

Pavel

No it doesn't.

Erik the Outgolfer

@orlp so Python is functional?

orlp

@EriktheOutgolfer definitely

DJMcMayhem

@EriktheOutgolfer Somewhat, yes

orlp

20:36

among other things

Python is multi-paradigm

Pavel

Global state is a thing in any language

Οurous

@orlp IE: a snake

Martin Ender

there's a different between supporting the functional paradigm and being a pure functional language

DJMcMayhem

Most languages nowadays are mult-paradigm.

Erik the Outgolfer

but Python has first-class functions too

orlp

20:37

@Pavel and I argue that in order for you to have procedures there must be some concept of local state

which assembly does not have

Pavel

There's a frame stack

orlp

no there isn't

that's not an assembly thing

that's a C thing

or a particular assembly programmer's choice to adhere to

Οurous

Logic gates. Logic gates aren't functional.

orlp

but most certainly not a thing that just exists in assembly

Pavel

But an assembly programmer can adhere to it

Οurous

20:39

Brainfuck isn't functional.

Pavel

And thus have local state

orlp

@Pavel except anyone can modify that local state

so it's not really local

and just because I can adhere to something in a language doesn't mean that it contains that

I can write (theoretically) a Python interpreter in brainfuck

that doesn't mean that brainfuck suddenly has the features of Python

Οurous

Most 2D languages aren't functional.

orlp

by your logic anything has anything

because you could make it and adhere to it

DJMcMayhem

Ever heard of turing equivalence? :P

Erik the Outgolfer

20:41

@Οurous eh, I can represent them in point-free :P

Poke

@DJMcMayhem was just about to say something along these lines

orlp

choosing to have a call stack or stack frames in assembly is as much as a choice as using a certain pattern in brainfuck

Poke

;)

orlp

I can't choose to not have a call stack in Python

it's always there

DJMcMayhem

Speaking of which, I'm probably going to end up writing a paper on Turing for my history class

Οurous

20:41

@EriktheOutgolfer almost every higher level language can represent them in point-free

Mr. Xcoder

Lol I played a 5 min card game and saw The Nineteenth Byte (35)....

Poke

language architecture != language features, though

Pavel

It's all syntax sugar for Assembly anyway

Erik the Outgolfer

hey, the sidebar was finally updated. yay!

quartata

@Pavel except that compilers can enforce local state

Pavel

20:49

Is there such thing as a comprehensive NetHack instruction manual or is just all somewhere in various forum posts and such that accumulated over the years

Erik the Outgolfer

@AdmBorkBork the way you chose to prevent vertical lines is a bit clunky imho...

Οurous

@Pavel there's a kind of charm to that style of documentation. Makes it very satisfying when you master a language.

As i realise it's a game.

And not a language.

Pavel

@Οurous It's very likely in your distro's repos, so I recommend trying it out. It's basically the most nerd game ever, like dwarf fortress.

Οurous

@Pavel tied for nerdyness or somehow more nerdy?

Pavel

It doesn't have the aspect of managing your dwarf society but it's more of a classic.

The game itself is like Rogue, except that they forgot to stop adding new complications since the game was released in the 80s.

Οurous

20:57

Well I liked dwarf after I played rimworld, I'll probably like nethack since I like ToME

Thanks, I'll give it a shot.

Pavel

And it has vim-like controls by default, for movement and such.

AdmBorkBork

@EriktheOutgolfer Yeah. I'm going to sleep on it and come back tomorrow with a fresh set of eyes and see if I can reword it to be better.

Pavel

Interestingly, It's the only game I've seen with a Unix man page, but I'm sure there are others.

Erik the Outgolfer

@AdmBorkBork especially the fact that I can do vertical lines for maximum 10 sheep

Οurous

@Pavel maybe it'll make vim tolerable for me.

Pavel

20:59

@Οurous There's also an emacs mode iirc

quartata

@Pavel There is, it's called the guidebook

nethack.org/v360/Guidebook.html

Erik the Outgolfer

no https >_<

:P

quartata

direct any other questions to the wiki which is obsessively comprehensive: nethackwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page

Poke

@EriktheOutgolfer there is https but i guess no 301

Erik the Outgolfer

that's how I noticed...

betseg

21:02

@EriktheOutgolfer my browser crashes on sandbox because of your messages ಠ_ಠ

Erik the Outgolfer

sorry, there's nowhere else those messages should go :)

betseg

you've poured 3 tons of sand in a 2 square metres of a sandbox

New Main Posts

21:17

0

Q: 1D Hopping Array Maze

Inspired by We do tower hopping and related to 2D Maze Minus 1D Introduction Your task is to find the shortest path to get out of an array maze following specified rules. Challenge A 1D array a with n elements can be regarded as a maze composed of n points, where point with index k is connect...

code-golf array-manipulation maze

Poke

21:38

holy shit bleepingcomputer.com/news/linux/…

Mr. Xcoder

Wow ಠ_ಠ npm...

Poke

21:50

at least it's a pre-release

so hopefully it isn't crippling production systems

Dennis

Even sudo npm --help breaks everything... o_O

Erik the Outgolfer

you can cool down now, as you can read in the article Poke linked to :)

Poke

I guess coupled with github.com/npm/npm/issues/19888

some people updated to the Wanted version even though it's pre-release

Mr. Xcoder

CMP: What should a "length" built-in do when given a float?

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