The Nineteenth Byte

I haven't told anyone this yet, but a while back I was planning on making a wheel-based (wheel is a circular stack) brain-flak variant, and I was planning on naming it Stealy-Wheely-Automobiley

caird coinheringaahing

@DJMcMayhem How about Wheely Mc-Brainwheel? :P

DJMcMayhem

Hmmm... Not enough DJ in there to be worth including the Mc.

How will I know that the language is both Scottish, and a Deejay?

caird coinheringaahing

@DJMcMayhem The last time I checked, "the ministry of silly walks" isn't in Scotland :P

DJMcMayhem

But where is it?

caird coinheringaahing

3:25 PM

@DJMcMayhem It doesn't exist

DJMcMayhem

crazy how nature do dat

Okx

@cairdcoinheringaahing warning: unused variable "navigationCode"

Mayube

@cairdcoinheringaahing so for the tarpit, what characters should we use?

caird coinheringaahing

@Okx Aren't you supposed to ignore warnings?

Okx

you might as well remove the variable

caird coinheringaahing

3:31 PM

@Mayube How many commands?

muddyfish

Why was this question deleted with a rude/abusive/spam flag?

DJMcMayhem

It should be 8. That's pretty typical

Mayube

for the tarpit? push, pop, inc, dec, loop start, loop end, read from STDIN, print to STDOUT

DJMcMayhem

@muddyfish I have no idea. It's definitely not

caird coinheringaahing

@Mayube As its already designed to hate code golf, should we use multibyte characters as commands?

Mayube

3:33 PM

eh, i'd rather not

DJMcMayhem

FTR, it was regular deleted, but then I have no idea how it was marked R/A

caird coinheringaahing

In that case, how about : ; + - ( ) , . (in the order ^^^^^)

El'endia Starman

@mınxomaτ: I'm fairly sure you know about this already. arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/09/…

Mayube

@cairdcoinheringaahing k, so I'm thinking there's the dump, and there's also a single cell which is the currently used value (ie the value that will be pushed if you push, and inc/dec if you inc/dec)

when you pop, a random value from the dump is moved to the cell

but when that happens, what happens to the existing value in the cell? Does it get pushed implcitly? Or just overwritten?

caird coinheringaahing

@Mayube That makes it sound even worse. I love it :P

Ven

3:41 PM

@Mego If I may. You probably want this to be a std::unique_ptr

at least if you plan to use inheritance to represent your values. I guess std::variant could work though

caird coinheringaahing

@Mayube It gets outputted or overwritten.

Ven

SeriousList::value probably wants to return a const List&, too :)

DJMcMayhem

12 mins ago, by muddyfish

Why was this question deleted with a rude/abusive/spam flag?

@Dennis ^ Any idea what's up with that? It's clearly not red-flag worthy, and since it was only marked as R/A after being deleted, it seems like it must have been a mod that cast the flag

Mayube

@cairdcoinheringaahing so here's a basic example: +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++:+:+:;. will randomly output !, " or #

caird coinheringaahing

@Mayube Perfect! :P

Do you want to make it, or should I?

Anonymous

3:46 PM

@Ven No, inheritance won't be used. std::variant (actually boost::variant for now, until Travis gets GCC 7) will be used, because there are a very small number (4) of concrete types that will be used on the stack. Inheritance is overkill.

Mayube

I'm already making it

Ven

@Mego fair enough. So why the SeriousObject?

caird coinheringaahing

@Mayube Have you released it on github?

Ven

ah, you'll probably later typedef it to a std::variant.

Mayube

how can I read 1 char at a time from STDIN in Python 2? do I have to read all input beforehand and then just iterate 1 at a time

caird coinheringaahing

3:47 PM

@Mayube sys.stdin.read(1)

DJMcMayhem

@Mayube No, there should be a function somewhere in sys.stdin

Mayube

ah okay nice

caird coinheringaahing

Shamelessly taken from Jelly :P

DJMcMayhem

@Mayube (Keep in mind that even though it reads one char at a time, it will still hang until the user pressed enter if you're in interactive mode)

Hello @ThomasWard !

caird coinheringaahing

Hello LazerEyes!

Anonymous

3:48 PM

@Ven I meant to have it return a ref, but not const. The value method is how the underlying type is extracted for manipulation, so it shouldn't be const.

Anonymous

@Ven Monadic type that contains a std::variant object and handles operations on it monadically

Ven

So you have a layer of abstraction for any value?

Anonymous

Exactly

Anonymous

This sort of language is a perfect fit for monadic types, so I'm going to use them

caird coinheringaahing

CMC: Return your favourite xkcd (number of votes wins :P)

Anonymous

3:51 PM

SeriousObject will abstract away the extraction of the value from the variant object, making the command implementations cleaner

Anonymous

@cairdcoinheringaahing 404

Ven

I'm not sure I see the relationship between AST shape and "monadic types"

DJMcMayhem

Poll: What should I name a Brain-flak variant with randomness added?

Anonymous

Monad (functional programming)

In functional programming, a monad is a design pattern that defines how functions, actions, inputs, and outputs can be used together to build generic types, with the following organization: Define a data type, and how values of that data type are combined. Create functions that use the data type, and compose them together into actions, following the rules defined in the first step. A monad may encapsulate values of a particular data type, creating a new type associated with a specific additional computation, typically to handle special cases of the type. For example, the simple Maybe monad ...

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing This one

Ven

3:52 PM

@Mego I know what a monad is.

Is a monadic type a type that has flatMap and join?

Anonymous

A monadic type is a type that supports monadic operations. Specifically, I'm using the return-and-bind definition.

Ven

Okay, now I understand.

caird coinheringaahing

@DJMcMayhem Definitely Rand-flak

Ven

Seriously/Actually is stack-based right?

DJMcMayhem

Hmm. Someone voted other, but never said what other they want

Anonymous

3:55 PM

@Ven Yes

Ven

@Mego Do you plan a VM (for fun and giggles), or directly evaluating the AST?

well, considering it's already a stack language...:)

H.PWiz

@DJMcMayhem I voted other, but don't have a suggestion

caird coinheringaahing

@Ven Actually, stack based with something else (not really, just for the pun)

Anonymous

In Seriously++, when an object is put on the stack, it will be automatically boxed into its respective monadic type (SeriousInt, SeriousFloat, SeriousString, or SeriousFunction). That object will then be boxed into a variant object, and that object will be pushed on the stack.

Ven

so it's a stack vm anyway

@Mego makes sense

(now I want to work on my rust vm :c)

Mayube

3:57 PM

is it possible to assign a variable within a function call in python?

eg: func(myVar=7)

caird coinheringaahing

@Mayube def f(x=<nilad>)

Mayube

ugh but I'm trying this for the purpose of golfing

Anonymous

@Ven Yep, might as well do that since most archs are stack-based anyways. It'll make it easier to do native compilation

Ven

That's a goal too?!

caird coinheringaahing

@Mayube You can use kwargs (def f(**kwargs) and f(x=10))

Anonymous

3:59 PM

@Mayube If you do def f(*a,**k):x=k['x'], you can do f(x=42)

Anonymous

@Ven Of course! And then I'll be working on getting it running in Game of Life!

Ven

@Mego haha, that one reminds me of a certain challenge

Anonymous

@Ven ;P

Ven

I can't see you doing native compilation though :).

.oO( I always write a JIT for my golfing languages, so that I can waste time more efficiently )

Mayube

@Mego I didn't define the function I'm trying to call though

New Sandboxed Posts

4:01 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Validating Words in Word Grids A follow on from Generating Word Grids Given a grid of letters and a set of co-ordinates, validate that the co-ordinates follow only cardinal direction changes, at least one of the co-ordinates touch an empty space in the centre of the grid, the resulting word is ...

Anonymous

@Mayube Then you're probably SOL

Mayube

basically I'm trying to golf this down to a single line:

v=arr[i]
arr.remove(v)

caird coinheringaahing

@Mayube v=arr.pop(i)

Mayube

oh wait hold on

if I have a list in python, and I .remove or .pop an element from it

do the rest of the elements change their indexes? Or do I just get a hole in the list?

caird coinheringaahing

@Mayube They change their indexes

Mayube

4:03 PM

okay good

totally not golfing BrainFlump's interpreter

down to 403 bytes but haven't implemented loops yet

New Main Posts

2

Q: Generating Word Grids

Given input n, produce a word grid of size n, in as few bytes as possible. Details The number provided will always be odd. The centre square of the grid must always be empty (a space character). The letters that fill the grid must be chosen at random from the English Scrabble letter distributio...

-3

Q: The WebChain-Ing

Input An unsigned integer (>0)[arg1], a website link[arg2]. Output It should print the websites that the final chain is consisting of. Explanation The software parses the website, which is chosen by [arg2], and chooses one of the links that are referring to a webpage in another domain (b.a.c...

code-golf internet

Mayube

wait, 423 bytes

haha, 404 bytes

hmm how am I gunna implement loops

@cairdcoinheringaahing you wanna do the hard part for me? xD

caird coinheringaahing

@Mayube Implementing loops?

Mayube

ye

caird coinheringaahing

Is it on github?

Mayube

4:12 PM

will be in a sec

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Word Grid Pathfinding A follow up to Generating Word Grids and Validating Words in Word Grids. Meta My original idea for this was to have entries compete, but I'd like to have different winning conditions. Given grid x, pit all scripts against each other for the following win criteria: Hig...

New Main Posts

0

Q: Is it a completely even number?

A completely even number is an even number whose divisors (not including 1) are all even. Some completely even numbers are 2 (divisors: 2, 1), 4 (divisors: 4, 2, 1), 16 (divisors: 16, 8, 4, 2, 1), and 128 (divisors: 128, 64, 32, 16, 8, 4, 2, 1). Some non-completely even numbers are 10 (divisor...

code-golf math number

Mayube

@cairdcoinheringaahing here it is

El'endia Starman

@NewMainPosts ...aka a power of 2?

Mayube

@El'endiaStarman 28 is a "completely even" number, but is not a power of 2

oh wait 4*7

yeah you're right powers of 2 only

Riker

4:23 PM

@NewMainPosts isn't this a dupe?

I feel like I've seen it before, and it's not the commented one

@flawr lol, subscribed

caird coinheringaahing

@Mayube Can you give me write access? My username is SatansSon

Also, note to self, change ^

Leaky Nun

@Fatalize why does this output true?

@Riker could you unfreeze this room? Thanks

Riker

he was faster

El'endia Starman

@LeakyNun I beat him to it. :P

Leaky Nun

lol

caird coinheringaahing

4:33 PM

Also, @Mayube can I golf the current code when I do the loops?

Mayube

@cairdcoinheringaahing yes and yes

Erik the Outgolfer

4:49 PM

lately serial downvoting has been more serious...have you observed such an effect?

New Main Posts

0

Q: Exponentiation Sequence

The oldest polish salt mine, located in Bochnia, was started in year 1248, which we can consider a magical number. We can see that it's equal to 4 digits from the sequence of exponentiations: . As the date is actually 4 digits from the sequence, we could make it longer. We could repeat the proce...

code-golf number-theory

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer Hasn't happened to me...

Erik the Outgolfer

even though one of my answers had a comment "Upvote so fast? ..." (that was because if your answer loads with score 1 just after posting it I'd consider it a bit of disrespect)

caird coinheringaahing

@EriktheOutgolfer Serial downvotes will be reversed at midnight

Erik the Outgolfer

they're not excessive, and no the system can't detect them if they're much time apart

caird coinheringaahing

4:53 PM

@EriktheOutgolfer Wrong wording. Corrected

Erik the Outgolfer

yeah was getting pinged

caird coinheringaahing

@Mayube should loops open/close depending on v or an item from d?

Mayube

v

Anonymous

@EriktheOutgolfer If you think there's a problem, and the system doesn't correct it automatically, raise a custom flag on one of the affected posts and point out your concerns to the mods.

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mego I'm not sure yet

I just asked if someboody else was also experiencing the same issue

Anonymous

4:59 PM

I haven't gotten downvoted in a while, so shrug

caird coinheringaahing

@Mego #highrepproblems :P

Anonymous

@cairdcoinheringaahing You don't need high rep to not get downvoted :P

Mistah Figgins

Are there any examples of a challenge requiring non-integer numbers being solved with a language that only has integer numbers?

E.g. calculate pi solved with Befunge or something

I would think they would be rare if any at all

Im thinking about making a bounty for that

H.PWiz

@MistahFiggins codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/114604/71256

Mistah Figgins

cool

Heh, it appears I've already upvoted that

Dennis

5:14 PM

@DJMcMayhem @muddyfish Why do you say that it was deleted as spam? Looks like a regular deletion to me.

Anonymous

@Dennis It shows as a red-flag deletion to regular users

Anonymous

> This question was marked as spam or rude or abusive and is therefore not shown - you can see the revision history for details.

Helka Homba

Apple must really hate Google. apple.com/apple-events/september-2017 doesn't work in Chrome

caird coinheringaahing

@Mayube ಠ_ಠ In order to implement loops, I made the program 661 bytes long

Anonymous

What probably happened was, there was a red flag that hadn't been accepted/declined when the post was deleted, so it was auto-accepted.

Dennis

5:16 PM

@Mego Hm, OK. Mods don't see the stub, so the only indicator for us is that it was deleted by Community, and this question was not.

@Mego Afaik redflags are special and dismissing them as helpful doesn't spam delete, but a single spam flag followed by a regular deletion is exactly what happened...

Okx

@HelkaHomba doesn't work in firefox either

Helka Homba

It works in Edge of all things.

DJMcMayhem

@Mego Which that flag should definitely be reviewed and rejected (I'm not sure if that's possible)

Especially since red flags carry a lot more consequence than other flag types, if someone's misusing them, they need to be made aware that they're doing it wrong

Anonymous

Man, Windows's file transfer dialog is terrible. It's been copying 0 items with 5 seconds remaining for about an hour now.

Dennis

Could somebody send me a screenshot since I can't see this myself?

DJMcMayhem

5:27 PM

Sure

Anonymous

DJMcMayhem

Dennis

Thanks!

DJMcMayhem

@Mego Mith said the same thing in Charcoal:

in Charcoal HQ, 1 hour ago, by Mithrandir

@DJMcMayhem if something was flagged with a red flag and then it was deleted, it'll show that even though it was manually deleted. The OP also won't suffer the -100 and other penalties.

Anonymous

@DJMcMayhem Yep, Charcoal is where I learned that it can happen :P

caird coinheringaahing

5:29 PM

What are the CLA flags that Python uses?

DJMcMayhem

Also, it seems like this behavior is shockingly wrong. If there is an incorrect flag on a deleted post, it will be instantly validated without any mods being made aware of this, so there's no one to reject the flag

Anonymous

@cairdcoinheringaahing python --help

muddyfish

Gah. I hate discord. They stopped my account this morning and only after 2 emails did they say it was for selfbot abuse. And only yesterday did I send them an email asking explicitly if something was within the terms of service and they said it was

DJMcMayhem

Might be worth a MM feature-request

LegionMammal978

@Mego Also weird how the ClO (hypochlorite), ClO₂ (chlorite), ClO₃ (chlorate), and ClO₄ (perchlorate) anions all have -1 charge

Beta Decay

5:37 PM

Does anyone else's eyes bleed whenever they go to mathoverflow.net? It's colours are awful :P

Dennis

@DJMcMayhem I've cleared the spam flag and it shows up as disputed now.

caird coinheringaahing

@BetaDecay Not bleed per se, but it isn't nice. Movies.SE is much worse though

muddyfish

@BetaDecay yes

Anonymous

@BetaDecay No, because I never go there :P

El'endia Starman

@BetaDecay 1) That's not exactly an official SE site (they host it themselves and have a contract with SE that stipulates details regarding how they fit into the network, like "no HNQ") and 2) it's probably run by math professors.

Anonymous

5:40 PM

@El'endiaStarman That stipulation specifically is that they don't see the HNQ list, but MO still has a presence on HNQ

Dennis

it's probably run by math professors What's that supposed to mean? :P

caird coinheringaahing

@Mayube Loops are added, and golfing is in progress

Anonymous

@Dennis When was the last time you met an artistically-inclined math professor? :P

caird coinheringaahing

@Mego In Dennis' defence, he could be one

Anonymous

Every professor I ever had would draw a circle on a whiteboard and say "this is our cow"

El'endia Starman

5:41 PM

@Dennis If you're a math prof (which IIRC you are?) then you're exceptional. TIO looks good. In general, though, they tend to give little thought to the style of their websites.

caird coinheringaahing

@Mego Never heard/seen that one :P

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman Even black text on a white background would look better than MO

Mistah Figgins

My 9th grade math teacher got a degree in art or something like that

Anonymous

@MistahFiggins 9th grade math teacher != math professor

Mistah Figgins

He has Escher stuff all over his walls

yep, I know

Anonymous

5:43 PM

Also every math teacher has Escher stuff all over their walls :P

Mistah Figgins

lol i guess so

Dennis

@Mego In my experience, 9th grade math teachers are physicists.

2

Anonymous

@Dennis In my experience, 9th grade math teachers are masochists :P

Dennis

That too.

Anonymous

Really though, that applies to all high school teachers

Mistah Figgins

5:46 PM

My physics teacher is legitimately insane

Dennis

@El'endiaStarman Guilty as charged. In math professors' defense, I have yet to see any professor's personal website with a decent style.

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mego my votes aren't affected by "rep" ;p

they are only affected by "post"

Anonymous

@Dennis I have, but that was a web design professor

Riker

@El'endiaStarman TIL it's not an official SE

makes sense though

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mego in my experience, 9th grade math teachers are just...*no comment*

El'endia Starman

5:49 PM

@Dennis Y'know, you have a point there. I've just looked at more websites by math profs than other profs.

Erik the Outgolfer

(p.s. my experience is most probably biased)

Mistah Figgins

@EriktheOutgolfer I took Calc 1, and mine was ok, but I've heard Horror stories

Erik the Outgolfer

@Dennis true (maybe because they want people to focus on their accomplishments as math professors rather than the design of their personal website)

Mr. Xcoder

Wanna see the theme of my professors' website? It's just terrifying

Erik the Outgolfer

@MistahFiggins I didn't mean exactly that

El'endia Starman

5:50 PM

@Riker Both MathOverflow and Mi Yodeya were SE 1.0 sites. Mi Yodeya is more integrated into the network though.

Mistah Figgins

@Mr.Xcoder yes please?

Riker

@El'endiaStarman TIL, tha'ts pretty cool

Mr. Xcoder

@MistahFiggins Sending screenshot

@MistahFiggins No onebox

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mr.Xcoder 404 for me

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer Edited, try again.

Erik the Outgolfer

5:53 PM

e-math.ro

Mr. Xcoder

Does it work?

Erik the Outgolfer

this goes to a 404 for me

(actually not even DNS)

Mistah Figgins

> 1+1=

wow

Mr. Xcoder

Yeah

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mr.Xcoder no

Mr. Xcoder

5:54 PM

No onebox

Erik the Outgolfer

huh?

Mr. Xcoder

Can you see it now?

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mr.Xcoder I meant the URL

Mr. Xcoder

@EriktheOutgolfer I have sent the raw picture.

@EriktheOutgolfer The URL links to imgur...

Erik the Outgolfer

e-math.ro doesn't work as a URL

Mistah Figgins

5:55 PM

I would send you to yvette's bridal formal, but I think it downloads audio files.

Mr. Xcoder

Oh.. The address is longter

@EriktheOutgolfer Try this: e-math.ro/zirnac

Erik the Outgolfer

e-math.ro this is totally unrelated...

Mr. Xcoder

Yes, it is

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mr.Xcoder works now

Mr. Xcoder

Awful, huh?

Too many dots, crappy messages (I won't bother to translate them), and many more...

Not to mention awful colors

And outdated, we're VIII C, not VII C...

Erik the Outgolfer

5:58 PM

grammer guuuud

Mr. Xcoder

Oh, I didn't notice that, lol

Erik the Outgolfer

and a down arrow thingy on the right doesn't actually work

Mr. Xcoder

Brb eating

@EriktheOutgolfer Yes, complete fail

Erik the Outgolfer

not-so-good designs are one thing, 10/10 fail is another

Mistah Figgins

My teachers use Schoology, so I don't really get to see anything like that

Although the website does have its fair share of problems

Erik the Outgolfer

6:01 PM

when a math prof has "1 + 1 = ?" on their website, it's really amazing, they can actually solve the equation!

Mistah Figgins

...like not sanitizing input

Leaky Nun

Erik the Outgolfer

@LeakyNun umm, what is "S"? I thought the proof is 160-something pages long...

Leaky Nun

@EriktheOutgolfer there is no "the proof"

there are many proofs

@EriktheOutgolfer S is the successor function defined in Peano arithmetic

Mr. Xcoder

What program is that?

Leaky Nun

6:11 PM

@Mr.Xcoder Prover9/Mace4

Erik the Outgolfer

so...that's essentially a tool for cheating when a homework question is asking "prove..."?

Leaky Nun

automated theorem prover

Mr. Xcoder

@LeakyNun Thanks

Leaky Nun

@EriktheOutgolfer the catch is you can only use first order logic there

(I don't know if there are other softwares that support second order logic)

Mr. Xcoder

Any golfing tips: ạ⁴²SµÞ?

I think it should be shorter

Leaky Nun

6:17 PM

@Mr.Xcoder what is this for?

Mr. Xcoder

10

Q: Sort the points by linear distance in a 3D space

Specs You have a cubic 3D space x,y,z of size S integer units, such as 0 <= x,y,z <= S. You get from default input methods an array of points P represented as x,y,z integer coordinates, in any reasonable format as you like, for example: [x1,y1,z1],[x2,y2,z2],[x3,y3,z3] ... [xn,yn,zn]. All the ...

code-golf geometry integer

My answer is here.

Leaky Nun

@Mr.Xcoder 5 bytes

Mr. Xcoder

@LeakyNun Thank you!

@LeakyNun What does ð do again?

> Starts a separate dyadic chain.

Nvm

@HyperNeutrino I have posted the Proton tips question.

betseg

6:32 PM

nvm am stupid

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder Couldn't you just combine the Python tips with the Javascript tips? That's basically what Proton is :P

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing No, it's not. It has many, many more cool syntax features.

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder 'twas simply a joke.

Mr. Xcoder

ok

caird coinheringaahing

@HyperNeutrino ಠ_ಠ Why haven't you added the "Unique features" page in the Proton wiki?

Mr. Xcoder

6:39 PM

hehe

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder was Proton designed to be Python but golfier?

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing Yeah, somewhat (I think). It is probably meant to beat Python by a few bytes (and combine the best of JS, Python and Cheddar)

caird coinheringaahing

@Mayube do you mind if I ask Dennis to add BrainFlump to TIO?

New Main Posts

1

Q: Tips for golfing in Proton

Proton is a quite new language created by PPCG user Hyper Neutrino. It is very similar to Python, and has similar syntax to the language Cheddar, hence there are some clever tricks you can use in order to reduce your byte count. Let's get those cool tricks listed here. As usual, please post one ...