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12:20 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing I will be accepting nominations for languages to be used might wanna fix the wording, as it seems like you are restricting all available langs to the nominated ones
@BlackCap did you really edit in a different color for yourself? :P
 
It was an accident; everything I touch becomes pink
6
 
12:31 AM
;_; the ant koth is javascript rip me
@BlackCap brb finding synonym for pink that sounds like some portion of "midas"
 
I didn't think this through, did I?
 
@DestructibleLemon My motivation for learning JS was so I could write this KotH...
 
Hi you
 
You
Hello. I see you took 108. :P
 
12:45 AM
Rrrgh 3 more votes until silver ... I'm dying here
Better post more seg faults :P
 
also how do the forensic ants stay in a straight line if the two ants don't move at the same time?
@trichoplax halp I'm confused
 
that moment when you're writing test cases for your custom lang because you made it way too complex
this ain't fun at all
 
You
@CensoredUsername I agree with you way too much.
 
at least it's catching significant errors and this way I should be able to easily move on with adding ops
 
You
@CensoredUsername Meanwhile, the C version of my language is crashing because of something weird with malloc and I have no idea what to do with it. :P
You're lucky. :P
 
12:57 AM
Anyone on that knows Jelly?
 
you don't know Jelly. You just get better at searching its ops reference page
@You that's what you get for writing it in C
I wouldn't encourage experimenting in C
 
@CensoredUsername Hey!
@You Send GitHub link if you've pushed
 
@CensoredUsername Good point
 
You
@CensoredUsername Yeah, but I wanted to make it faster than the Python. :P
 
@trichoplax do the possible orientations not include mirror images? is that it?
 
12:59 AM
if you already have an impl it's okay I guess
 
You
@MDXF I have the Python version over here: github.com/deltamega-carrot/relic
 
@You Nah I mean the C version. I'm professional in C, I dislike Python
 
You
@MDXF Ok, I'll make a git for it.
 
@You Or just a gist, or a branch of your existing repo
 
And... we have top 3 HNQs
 
1:01 AM
although if you're going for speed you of course need to make it a jit compiler
 
I'm guessing it's seg faulting?
'cause
:P
 
Ruby is a nice language :P
 
@MDXF But Python is usually so much better for sites like this since it's interpreted :P
 
@Qwerp-Derp Its syntax is glorious
@StepHen Well I don't particularly dislike the language itself, the syntax just annoys the heck out of me
 
I recently finished making a clone of 2048 in it without wanting to commit honorary seppuku, so it's good enough for me
 
You
1:02 AM
Guys, guys, guys! The master programming language is Brainf***! :D :P
 
@MDXF Really, I personally like using English over Shift-Numbers
and vs &&, or vs ||, etc.
 
@You indeed!
 
@StepHen I don't get it :P
Ohhhh
Yeah that's my least favorite part
 
@MDXF Go learn VB
 
@StepHen Actually, BASIC's syntax is intriguing
Yes it's atrocious but still interesting
At least BASIC (VB's predecessor) is 50 years old
 
1:03 AM
return unless x
Ruby is the true master race
unless, until... Python doesn't have that
And Ruby's class extension is better than Python's IMO
 
You
Someone has to make a merge of all the languages. I call not doing it!
 
That'd be impossible to parse @You
 
just make a metametagolfscript
 
You
@SocraticPhoenix That's why I called not doing it. :P
 
1:04 AM
Imagine trying to put Brainf**k and C and Python in the same interpreter.... ಠ_ಠ
 
welp... @ does not enter-autocomplete
 
We'll call it LangBang
 
How about we call it suicide?
 
You
Use tab.
 
1:05 AM
@You thanks
 
What if we made a working version of Assembly, but only with BF?
 
I'm used to enter cuz intellij
 
the great thing about whitespace is that you can just mash it together with many languages and it still works
 
@SocraticPhoenix Bad grammar, that's thank you
:P
 
@You so, while 1: in Python vs while (true) { in Java vs while (1) { in JavaScript vs While True in VB, etc.
 
1:06 AM
@MDXF dis be teh chat room, who needs teh grammar?
 
how do you tokenize that :P
 
I might make a hunter ant for the ant queen koth
 
pure magic
 
@SocraticPhoenix who needs teh chat bans?
 
@Qwerp-Derp: I'm pretty sure I've got a brainf**k to asm transpiler somewhere
 
1:06 AM
if I knew js better
 
@DestructibleLemon do you know Python and Java?
 
or.... java { java code...} python { python code...} etc.
 
@StepHen no
 
@StepHen I know both? (less python... mostly java)
 
@SocraticPhoenix props to whoever manages to implement that and makes it interoperable
 
1:07 AM
that'd be the biggest issue...
 
@SocraticPhoenix How about disgrace { java code } disgusting { python code } ?
 
JavaScript is like Java syntax with Python typing
 
pretty sure it isn't
 
I guess you could make a runtime that transpiles it into all the different languages, fires up several interpreters, and then essentially sends them commands to execute code with certain values
 
JavaScript is everything good from Java and Python
 
1:08 AM
@MDXF and what would be in the nice-code block?
 
Python is strongly typed, JS is weakly typed
 
You
@StepHen Don't forget +[]
 
@SocraticPhoenix C
Or Ruby, I guess
 
@MDXF wait... what's good in Java?
7
 
Ooh and finger-disease { perl code }
 
1:08 AM
@MDXF Wait, when did C become cross-platform? :P
 
@StepHen I don't get it
 
@MDXF Java is clearly the best language! If... you want to mod pc minecraft...
 
You
@SocraticPhoenix Naw, you use Clojure. :P
 
@SocraticPhoenix Nah just open up the executable and mod the binary
It's cleaner than programming in Java
 
@MDXF *bytecode cuz jvm
Java is really weird -_-
 
1:10 AM
Oh that's right, Java doesn't even use normal binary. I forgot
 
@MDXF The executable is just the launcher. It does nothing but manage updates and launch the relevant .jar.
 
@Phoenix Yeah I know, I forgot, Java doesn't even let you compile an executable
Now I see why people use it!
 
Unless you mean modifying the JVM, which is getting into some really weird territory.
@MDXF Yes it does.
 
@Phoenix it does?
 
Really?? Enlighten me
 
1:11 AM
It's quite a recent feature.
 
I mean.. .jar is kind of a semi-executable...
 
I feel some sarcasm coming on
 
@Phoenix in 9?
 
I think so?
 
(i.e. everything that I've typed in the last half hour)
 
1:11 AM
is it part of that whole jigsaw thingy
 
It's part of Ahead-Of-Time compilation.
 
Hmm... I've got to look this up!
 
@You Clojure is the master JVM language :P
 
clearly it's Jython
 
AOT compilation of any JDK modules, classes, or of user code, is experimental and not supported in JDK 9. cries
 
1:13 AM
The "best" JVM language is probably Kotlin.
 
@CensoredUsername What about JRuby?
@Phoenix Ewww Kotlin
 
that's Ruby so by definition it isnt'
 
@Qwerp-Derp Kotlin looks really nice... I don't know it yet though
 
You
@Qwerp-Derp I should learn Clojure.
 
@You Beware the Clojure stack traces :P
 
1:14 AM
@SocraticPhoenix By "not supported" they mean "it's there, but there are a shit ton of warnings you'll get telling you it's a terrible idea, and you need intentionally obscure flags."
 
You
@Qwerp-Derp Oh, no! I don't even know what that means, but it scares me! D:
 
Either way the correct solution is to use C# or another .NET language.
 
@Phoenix yeah, I see that in the JEP.. it's here apparently...
 
@You A stack trace is a kind of error message.
 
the correct solution is just to write the machine code by hand
 
1:14 AM
Kotlin's syntax for arrays is super weird, to declare a new array for ints you do intArrayOf(10, 20, 30)
 
it's the only way to get true bare-metal performance
 
@You But other than that, Clojure's a really really nice language
 
You
@Phoenix No, like, what's so bad about Clojure's stack traces?
 
@You It's super cryptic
 
You
@Qwerp-Derp At least it's not C error reporting?
 
1:16 AM
Yep
Seriously though.
.NET > JVM
 
>C error reporting
is that a thing?
 
Well good point, but sometimes it'll take you ages to figure out what an error is
 
@CensoredUsername Yes, it's just incredibly confusing.
 
@Phoenix Other langs > C# > Java > C++
 
I just thought it was the compiler making weird hissing noises at you if you did something wrong
 
1:17 AM
Actually, it does lets out the dinosaurs: xkcd.com/292
*just
 
I'm currently using Dart, it's a nice language to work in but it's super underdeveloped, the ecosystem is really barren
 
You
@CensoredUsername Programmer: I'm gonna mess up Cloj--
 
/srv/wrappers/c-gcc: line 5: 9064 Segmentation fault (core dumped) ./.bin.tio "$@" < .input.tio
 
You
Compiler: NOOOOOO!
 
See, it tells you what line the bork is on.
Even though I wrote two lines of code, but you know. It's a start.
 
1:18 AM
> I am You. You are me. We are one. One are we.
 
@Phoenix at least you have that
 
Why???? ಠ_ಠ
 
You know what's fun to get errors in? assembly
 
You
@HyperNeutrino Because, @HyperNeutrino, we are one. MUAHAHAHA!!!
 
1:18 AM
what is this debug info
 
> børk
 
@Qwerp-Derp C# is good tho
 
@You BORK ALERT 🚨 BORK ALERT 🚨 BORK ALERT UNIVERSE IS NO LONGER FUNCTIONING
 
Eh, there are better languages out there
 
just gotta be happy that you at least get an instruction pointer back
RIP
 
1:19 AM
They both give me some form of cancer with their verbosity :P
(C# + Java)
 
You
@HyperNeutrino I think the universe has received a segment fault.
 
@Qwerp-Derp Ruby's nice, I guess, but it's relatively very slow.
 
@Qwerp-Derp I rather like java.... but I'm also a control freak and like structure, structure AND MORE STRUCTURE
 
@Phoenix Yeah, good point
 
quantum mechanics is just someone being lazy and catching sigsegv in the universe
 
1:20 AM
At least C# and Java are both better than C++ :P
 
Come on, segfaults too? The universe already had floating-point underflow error... sigh
 
instead of actually fixing the bugs
 
why????? ;_;
 
huh?
how?
 
@Qwerp-Derp F# is brilliant. You can have all of the verbosity and structure of C#, or you can run in script mode with bare commands at the top level.
 
1:21 AM
My repcap streak has been broken ;_;
 
You
Wasn't there an xkcd comic about god writing the universe in perl or something?
Wait, I found it:
 
yep
@You also... how did you make the picture pop up in the message..
 
You mean oneboxing?
 
You
I copied and pasted the link in a seperate message.
 
As in, just posting the link?
 
1:22 AM
Oh
is that how it works?
 
F# looks like a nicer version of Haskell :P
 
I don't do the chats enough...
 
You
I guess. :D
 
There's also this is fine lol
@StepHen We keep the water below -10 C otherwise we'd all burn to death. In Canada, water freezes at -50 C.
 
How do I ban one-way functions like hashing in a CnR contest?
 
1:24 AM
You say that the function must be bijective.
 
@Qwerp-Derp That's because it is.
In the same way that C# is a nicer version of Java.
(Although F# is more strongly based on ML)
 
@Phoenix What's the use of learning F# though? It seems like a niche language
 
Why would you learn Haskell or ML?
 
Idea: invent a language more verbose than Java, market it as Java++
 
> Some links will be automatically inlined if posted on a single line by themselves, such as:
(click help in the bottom right hand corner for more info)
 
1:30 AM
@SocraticPhoenix this is how you get sued
 
if JavaScript could get a license then so could we!
 
Microsoft released C# just fine with no legal issues.
(Other than the legal issues that caused C# in the first place)
 
@Phoenix I think the bigger issue is that every calls JScript JavaScript
@HyperNeutrino Don't worry, in China they play with their ice
 
Because it's the same language, ECMAScript
 
@Phoenix <script type="text/javascript">
 
1:32 AM
We do that with our ice too in Canada, during the winter :P
To be fair, in the summer it can get really hot (feels-like 40+ C)
 
@HyperNeutrino It barely gets that hot here, guess the keyword is feels like
 
@SocraticPhoenix this is how you spend a lot of money
 
@StepHen yup :P
 
Ok, question: If I need to store a list of widgets associated with animations, given multiple animations can be associated with a single widget, which of these is preferable? HashMap<Widget, List<Animation>>, with a list of animations for each widget, or a List<(Widget, Animation)>, with each Widget-Animation association as it's own entry?
 
OK, quick question: if you had choice over the label of a range to use for something, that you had to use, would you choose a range that was 0..100, or -20..40?
 
1:35 AM
So, the widgets are associated with the animations, and not the other way around?
@StepHen [0, 100]
 
@StepHen 0-100
 
^^ delete or edit your previous one
 
but it depends on the context I guess...
 
@HyperNeutrino Isn't that the same thing?
 
@SocraticPhoenix well I guess I was kinda sneaky but the context is temperatures
 
1:36 AM
Pretty much.
I'd prefer the former, because that way if you have a widget, you can easily get all of the animations associated with it.
Also 0/10 if you're going to say List then say Map :P
 
Why?
Anyway, it's actually a HashSet.
Dur
 
I also have an (unrelated) question: HashMap or LinkedHashMap as the implementation of map literals in a language (JVM)?
 
how do you link a hashmap
 
@HyperNeutrino use a different class appareantly
 
@HyperNeutrino with java
 
1:39 AM
@SocraticPhoenix I think you should use a HashMap for now and not worry about it, then when you're done try LinkedHashMap and see if it gets noticably faster.
 
lol ok then ._.
 
@HyperNeutrino this sequence is cool
 
oh it orders it
 
@HyperNeutrino yep
 
@StepHen oh that one! I remember that one :P
CMC: Given a term in the sequence A005150, output the next term.
 
1:40 AM
Well, if there are only accesses while it's running and only writes at the start, having it be ordered is probably better.
 
@Phoenix hmm.. I wasn't thinking about speed - I just figured it made more sense that if you declare a map literal and iterate over it, you get the entries in order...
 
If you're using any kind of Map, you generally shouldn't be concerned with their order.
 
@Phoenix true.. the only place I've ever used LinkedHashMap is in the ordering of configuration properties... so they write to file in the same order...
 
nvm posting to sandbox
 
You lot know how in Java you can have a splat parameter using ..., right? Can you do that with generics, e.g. Tuple<T...>?
 
1:47 AM
I hope not... That doesn't even make sense lol
 
I was trying to write my own Tuple class in Java, and I don't want to have a <A, B> for pairs, <A, B, C> for triplets, <A, B, C, D> for 4-tuples, etc.
 
@Phoenix nope, but you can hava a generic vararg...
 
Oh? What's that?
 
@Phoenix ...
in a method
you called it a splat
 
Oh, well yeah.
 
1:50 AM
I think the only way to do that is provide it as list of objects and somehow do types or something...
 
Prolly store Type objects and then cry becuase you're using Java reflection.
 
@Phoenix or have a <T> getAs(int i, Class<T> cls) --> Optional<T> method
 
3spooky5me
C# just has Tuple literals >_>
 
Yes, but remember, Java is Java
and Java is gosh darned weird
 
Although, up until C# 7, the Tuple class actually did have an implementation like mine above with <A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H>.
So you could only go up to size 8.
 
1:54 AM
@Phoenix interesting... you could write a program to generate a bajillion tuples...
 
C# 7 technically only supports up to size 8 under the hood, but then it does magic where the 8th type is another tuple, and then the tuples get "flattened" in the actual code.
 
@Phoenix Basically Python arbitrary length ints, just with tuples?
 
@Phoenix cool... and it sounds quite effective...
 
why is this so weird ._.
 
because Java
 
1:56 AM
but C#
C -> 3 -> #
 
@StepHen See, C# is statically typed.
Which makes it a pain.
 
@Phoenix I like static typing...
 
@SocraticPhoenix It's like a linked list of generic types.
 
@Phoenix It's also compiled, which catches half of your errors beforehand when combined with static typing
 
static typing is a pain lol
 
1:57 AM
@SocraticPhoenix So do I, but you have to admit it makes it more dificult to imiplement tuples.
 
@StepHen the other half of the errors aren't yours to begin with :P
 
@Phoenix yes. yes it does
 
In fact, it is my firm belief that dynamic typing is only good for code golf.
 
@Phoenix And any small projects
 
@HyperNeutrino What about in langs where types are mostly inferred?
but still static
 
1:58 AM
Example?
 
It is so much easier to run something quick in Python than in Java
 
@HyperNeutrino umm? kotlin somewhat
 
idk any non-Java JVM languages lol
 
@StepHen I think the reason C#/Java/Whatever are bad for small prjects is because of the OOP, not the typing.
 
other than a bit of Ceylon
Well I mean in Java you do have List<Integer> list = new ArrayList</* hehe I don't need to put anything here */>()
 
1:59 AM
And in C# you have var list = new List<int>()
 
oh there's var in C#?
 
@Phoenix it's like that in kotlin too
 
Also as someone earlier said, Java makes small projects bigger and big projects smaller
 
@Phoenix what does var test; do?
 
@HyperNeutrino It's not a dynamic type, it's like C++'s auto.
@StepHen Compiler error
 
1:59 AM
@Phoenix but you can still do int test;?
 
@Phoenix ah ok. so it infers the type from what's on the right side
 

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