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00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

21:00
@Dennis at least I understand why my solution works now
I notice a trend in phone calls. Either people try to avoid them, or they are really long. I just had a 4 hour phone call...
@mınxomaτ what
that's extreme
I know, that's my point. Though it was everything but unpleasant.
@mınxomaτ love interest?
No, an old friend.
21:06
@orlp The general formula is easy enough to express. The hard part is counting the Pythagorean triples.
The triples aren't that dense. You can probably just generate all of the (primitive) ones under the maximum.
That doesn't sound particularly golfy though.
It's golf?
11
Q: Counting unit squares circle passes through

orlpWrite a program or function that given an integer radius r returns the number of unit squares the circle with radius r centered at the origin passes through. If the circle passes exactly through a point on the grid that does not count as passing through the adjacent unit squares. Here's an illus...

@Dennis what's your general formula? :)
21:09
I thought we were talking about the CMC and getting a fast enough algorithm.
@orlp 4*(2*r-(number of non-negative integer solutions of x²+y²=r²))
@Dennis right :)
number of non-negative integer solutions of x²+y²=r²
that's the number of pythogarean triples with a certain hypothenuse
that has an elegant solution :)
@betseg r is fixed
Ah k
21:13
@orlp I know an efficient solution, but I doubt it's golfy.
@Dennis to 'win' the chat mini challenge all you need to do is solve n = 247742847421875
regardless of golfyness
think of it as a challenge
Is that like ?
@Pavel it's a wordplay on
That's still basically though.
0
Q: Calculate a modulo with only bitwise operators

ckjbgamesYour task is to calculate the modulo (remainder) of two numbers, which can be taken as command line arguments or from STDIN. Rules The only operators you may use are the bitwise operators (and, or, xor, etc.), comparison operators (greater than, less than, equal to, etc.), the assignment o...

21:26
Dennis give me a bit to finish up school then I will be ready to use your brain
@ChristopherPeart Dennis is probably busy with TIO, seeing as how everything is borked now.
Mathematica naturally has a builtin, and it's rather competitive.
8#-SquaresR[2,#^2]& does it for @orlp's challenge, except for n = 0.
O_O how is TNB and PPCG even working now?
@feersum seems in the right direction
@ChristopherPeart Well it only borked a few minutes ago, and Dennis reverted the change just now.
@feersum n = 247742847421875 ?
@Pavel Ah makes sense.
@ConorO'Brien Yeah, that's pretty cool. I'll upvote that.
1981942779374460
codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/108721/… When you have 4 views and 3 close votes
21:32
Could I have some PHP help?
@wizzwizz4 [insert your problem is you're using php joke here]
I want to make the headers so that an image is interpreted as being imagey, but displays in the browser (as opposed to as download).
I suspect any PHP help you get will involve not using PHP.
@feersum I'll rephrase then:
Could I have some HTTP header help?
See, that's better!
(I can't help you anyway though since I don't know the first thing about web development)
21:34
0
Q: students are divided into 3 different games: 1: Football, 2: Basketball, 3: Volleyball

Ezmir ShehuInput specification: you will be given one integer (n) in the beginning. Then, the following n lines will have two strings: The name of the student and his/her preferred game (Football, Basketball or Volleyball) where n is between 1 and 10,000 names are at most 20 char strings containing only 26 ...

@Pavel Great idea
@Pavel you are pretty active here meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/… any more feedback?
@ChristopherPeart Well, first of all, requiring StdOut output is frowned upon, you should allow all default I/O formats
Thanks for rubber-ducking. (I backspaced most of the rubber-duckiness though... No sense spamming!)
If I come in here again without a specific question today, please kick me / shout at me. I need to get actual work done! :-)
@ChristopherPeart You know what I just realized your question is? Output the prime factorization of a number, given that the number is divisible by 3, 5, and 7.
Which isn't interesting.
Unless I'm misunderstanding it.
21:44
I am planning on using to be the first use of beginner-code-golf
@Pavel I thought STD out meant standard out
0
Q: Requirements for Computational Biology graduate application

Sophie3101I'm looking for MS/PhD programs in Computational Biology. I'm interested in doing data mining on biological data but my background in CS is very limited. I have a bachelor in Biochemistry so I think it's more relevant for me to apply to Computational Biology instead of straight Computer Science p...

@ChristopherPeart standard out is a technical term describing the standard output stream and through which text is written to the console. It's not the standards for output we have on this site, which allow, for example, StdErr, the return value of a function, exit code, etc.
wat
wat
Apparently I have an "Internal components of a computer" certification now
@NewMainPosts Mistaken for Academia SE?
That's up there with the time we were mistaken for ELL
@quartata Wait, really? XAXAXAXAXA
21:49
@feersum correct!
@ChristopherPeart stdout is where most languages print to. On PPCG it's also allowed to output to a file, or return from a function, or to STDERR, or some other ways
(you didn't notify me so I missed it)
feersum won the CMC
wat
wat
@Pavel most russian laugh representation
also, this:
this is my Python solution without builtins (well, one to factorize an integer)
from sympy import factorint
import operator as op
from functools import reduce
def a(n):
    if n == 0: return 0
    return 8*n - 4 * reduce(op.mul,
        (2*e + 1 for p, e in factorint(n).items() if p % 4 == 1), 1)
@Dennis this should be fairly golfable, right?
@Pavel what should I say to use the standard out for the language of choice?
Huh today was light on collage junk mail. Only 4.02 Oz
21:51
@feersum with my solution you can even do it by hand if you know the factorization
247742847421875 = 3^15 * 5^7 *13 * 17
the primes that are 1 mod 4 are 5, 13 and 17
their multiplicities are 7, 1, 1
Anyone certified in DC electronics via CET besides me?
@wat Nothing you upload to that website loads for me
(2*7+1)*(2*1+1)*(2*1+1) = 135
wat
wat
@Pavel what does it say
image not found
21:53
@ChristopherPeart I usually write something like you may take the input and the output in any reasonable format. For example, STDIN/STDOUT, function arguments and return value, reading and writing to a file, etc.
so the solution is 8*247742847421875 - 4*135
The entire site fails to load when I visit it
wat
wat
@Pavel with what error?
@DJMcMayhem Thanks!
That's nice because "reasonable format" is well defined and has a meta post
wat
wat
21:54
there, I reuploaded it
@wat noice
wat
wat
also @Pavel Try loading dkudriavtsev.xyz
does that work?
@wat Well, I can't say now, because now the school filter has blocked it as, quote, 'social-networking'
I think a lot of details are better left unspecified. (As long as the challenge is clear)
wat
wat
@VoteToClose they had a "one free cert" promotion
@Pavel Umm.
That's my blog.
21:55
But it used to just say 'can't access this page'
wat
wat
How do you get "social networking" from that
Nice job wat!
@Pavel I just got outta school :P
wat
wat
@ChristopherPeart Thanks
I didn't know they had a whole study section, I just thought they had tests. Turns out they had the whole course.
I have gotten several questions placed on hold recently as "unclear what you're asking." Does anyone have any advice on making questions more specific?
wat
wat
So I basically got that without studying. I just built a computer though, so there's that.
21:57
@ckjbgames Make use of the sandbox.
@ckjbgames it's not a lack of specificity
it's ambiguity
Post your question there first and people will ask questions to help you form your challenge
@Poke @orlp Thx
as a general rule of thumb you should be able to write a computer program that can exactly tell whether an answer is valid or invalid
21:58
@orlp Neat, the fact that r^2 is square really simplifies the formula from when it can be any number.
if you can't you likely have something ambiguous
@feersum yep
as I said, the solution is quite elegant
wat I sent my roast
Sometimes, I think making an abbreviated form of a language might be interesting (and make it a bit more competitive in golfing), but does it really count as a separate language if all the "interpreter" does is unabbreviate it and pass it along to the original?
@Pavel didn't you have a link to that markup script for chrome on PPCG
@miles yes that counts
@miles in a sense that's what Pyth does
plus a bunch of builtins
@miles virtually anything can be a programming language on PPCG
44
Q: What are programming languages?

Ingo BürkOften, answers to questions asking for "programs" or talking about "programming languages" utilize things like sed, awk, … in order to get around having to write an actual shell script. Therefore, a question comes to my mind: What qualifies as a programming language? Sure, ultimately the OP ca...

In the past couple of days I've been looking into starting an abbreviated OCaml.
is that how Pyth works? I haven't had a chance to familiarize myself with it
Pyth is just a wrapper for Python.
Although, a very intricate one.
imo if you're creating a language it should have some purpose other than "being good at golfing" even if it's just "a fun esolang"
22:05
@miles yeah, it's like compiling
My goal would be to write code in a normal production language and have it compile shorter than everything else.
RProgN was created because I wanted Reverse Polish Notation but Turing Complete.
Then I discovered Post Script.
and hopefully stacked after that :3
I still prefer my RProgN, It's my baby.
And the father of the 1\n1 quine.
22:29
@feersum it's amazing that seemingly unrelated stuff in the end often comes down to 'factor this number and do X with the factorization'
I guess it's called the fundamental theorem of arithmetic for a reason :)
@flawr why does [1 1;1 1] have no inverse when it's not an identity matrix?
22:50
When all the internet goes to your sister watching a video on "Peel-off tape for nail art: LATEX-FREEE?!"
@DJMcMayhem @ATaco @Dennis I am off! I will be writing my own programming golf language!
If you have any advice please send!
@ChristopherPeart Advice: Don't write it in Java if you value your sanity.
Never even thought about using that horrible thing
"Context-free grammars. What this really means is the code should be parsable without having to look things up in a symbol table. " Welp this guide is not going to work out
Write it in Python
@Riker because the determinant is zero.
@Riker try writing out the system of equations that the four entries of the inverse would have to satisfy, and see that they are contradictory
Wow python coming to bite me in the back. I was going to take a class on it but not enough people signed up for it so I couldn't
22:56
ah okay thanks xnor
Instead I have to take Java
and I want to die
@mbomb007 I got that, but that doesn't really explain why (to me at least)
@Riker "To find the Inverse of a 2x2 Matrix: swap the positions of a and d, put negatives in front of b and c, and divide everything by the determinant (ad-bc)" The determinant is zero, so you'd get a division by zero = undefined.
yeah I know that
That's why.
22:58
Java is fine
Just not for writing languages
@ChristopherPeart I do have some advice! Fill a niche. Find something that your language does well and do that! Don't write another stack based language cause we already have a million of those. Instead find something that other languages overlook and try to excel at that
I really don't like java. (JS is my bay tho) The irony. But I can't figure out how to even start writing one
A language
@ConorO'Brien has written a ton, in JS
Well, your first language will likely have one character atoms, so you don't have to parse it in some complex way.
IMO that's why V is really fun, cause very few languages are purely about string processing
22:59
and downgoat is writing a relaly big language in node
@DJMcMayhem Charcoal
@DJMcMayhem yeah
Oh there's lots of them definitely, but they're rare
things like cinnamon gum and bubblegum are more about compression
ahem
23:00
Python is what Jelly is written in
There's V, cg, turtlèd, charcoal, IPOS and retina.
Trying out python
It's not 'very few' if you can stick an ellipsis at the end.
@ChristopherPeart Here's my interpreter for SMBF: ideone.com/L2byRe
I swear, nobody gets CG. Oh well.
23:01
(Note that esolangs.org is down right now)
@quartata you should answer the keyboard challenge in CG so I can see how they compare in large challenges
@quartata I haven't heard of CG.
@mbomb007 woah why
Hang on. In python when you update a variable it is the same context as declaring it!
Yeah
23:03
@Riker Idk. I just can't get there.
@Riker have you worked on Upward? The description you submitted for it intrigues me.
yeah partially
it's not finished
Oooh, what does it look like?
and I've been busy irl recently, haven't worked on it
@Pavel right now I've got most of the framework down, just no commands added yet
that's pretty easy
just time-consuming
haven't had much time
Ah, ok. Still, that's pretty cool.
I think I'm most exited for what Martin will do.
23:08
Hi there, anyone put for some code jazz?
Actually, scratch that. WheatWizard says he's making SpaceChem in text form.
@Safirah You're really pushing for this, huh? :P
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

VoteToCloseFind fixed points of the Logistic Map numbersequencemathcode-golf Definitions Logistic Map A logistic map is defined as the following equation: Where the next value in the map (on the left) is determined by a function of the current value (on the right), where the constant lambda represe...

I think my lang will be called "Builtin"
And will literally just be builtins (jokeing)
So anyways @DJMcMayhem how do go around programming your own language? Google was no help
@Dennis you could be a big help too
@VoteToClose (>_<) sorry, just thought I would be fun, this comunity has so many fun challenges I thought I could contribute with another one, but maybe it's still too soon
23:15
Code Jazz?
@ChristopherPeart Sorry, I'm busy with TIO.
@ChristopherPeart what type of lanugae?
will tokens be single characters?
@ChristopherPeart It's like improv programming.
@ChristopherPeart You would have to beat Mathematica for that, and for that you would have to build in a function literally to recognize images of goats.
23:17
@Riker Let A = [1,1;1,1] and consider the system of equations A* x = b. You have two equations x1 + x2 = b1 and x1 + x2 = b2 imagine those geometrically. What kind of solutions (depending on b1 and b2) do you expect? (I don't get what you mean with it's not an identity.)
identity matrices don't have inverses I thought
@VoteToClose are you trying to tell me something else with your username? xD
if they do then my teacher lied
@Riker its themselves
Identity matrixes do have inverses, since I * I = I
23:18
ah okay
its just like normal numbers
that's where all the names and notation came from
@ChristopherPeart there's not really a short answer, but for esolangs it's not that hard.
@Safirah That's just what my username is. ;) It's a reference to a great many other things.
Of course the first step is having a language to implement
its like "what's the inverse of 1"
23:18
makes more sense now
Yeah, coming up with an interesting idea is hard
But hey, if it's not a BF clone, it's already 'above expectations'
@Riker the only time you won't have an inverse is if det=0
are there non-one matrices that have a det of 0?
because that means that your matrix moves everything onto a line/plane
which has no unique inverse
@Riker non-one?
not all 1s
23:21
yeah
for the det to be 0, the rows have to not be linearly independent
ohhh
because the det gives you the signed area scaling factor, and if its 0, you go from plane -> line or space -> plane
oh
uh
ELI5 signed area scaling factor?
this is the geometrical meaning behind the det
couple things you should know first
Should I learn Prolog?
23:24
up to you
fatalize knows it you might want to talk to him
All I know about it is that I have absolutely no idea how code written in it works.
@Riker since matrices are linear transforms if say for example, the area of the unit square scales up by 2 after the transformation, then all areas double after the transformation
Still have no idea how to write a lang
@Maltysen yeah
I don't need to be able to code in it, just understand people's PPCG submissions.
23:25
oh, signed <area scaling> factor
yeah
that's what the det is
I thought that was something like <signed area> scaling factor
the signed part comes cuz you "flip" the plane if its negative
and was like 'wtf is signed are'
@Maltysen yeah
well signed area is a real thing
23:25
But I plan on using a uncode char board
its what you calculate when you integrate
well I'm not there yet ;)
@ChristopherPeart Make a 1d lang with one byte atoms. Then iterate through the inpute string with a forloop and do something for each character.
@Riker well you don't need to know calc to understand signed area
That should be simple enough.
23:27
@Riker if you have some curve, what signed are really means is the area under the curve and above the x axis minus the area above the curve and below the x-axis
oh that's pretty simple
yeah
that's cuz we use areas as a tool to talk about integrals, but integrals are use for things that can be signed irl, like positions, or temperatures
oh
23:28
@Riker also, you're learning linear algebra before calc in school?
that's weird
<shrug>
@Maltysen it's part of my precalc course, and teacher said to keep going in linear algebra
well like the basics are in the end of the book
and he said to learn more so i did
@Riker you can also see the det=0 things is no inverse tfrom the inverse formula
its adjoint/det
so if det=0 its undefined
oh
23:34
Only click if A: No human is around, B: You are OK with a slightly NSFW post, C: You are OK with laughing out loud very hard: iwastesomuchtime.com/this_was_hard_t_17127
@Maltysen AKA linerly dependent
@Dennis if I write a lang would you add it to TIO. And if so what would I need to do to make sure it is compatible? It with be a python written
@Maltysen @Riker I can highly recommend 3B1B's series on linear algebra, also with a very intuitive explanation on the determinant: youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZHQObOWTQDPD3MizzM2xVFitgF8hE_ab
His explanations and visualizations are amazing, top notch!
@ChristopherPeart Pretty much any language is fine. Python is a bonus since it's fairly portable. Just make sure it's non-interactive: no input prompts or similar, no greetings, and warnings/errors should go to STDERR.
@flawr oh, i saw his video on fractals just the other day, it was really well done. Ill check it out
23:38
Ok sweet
That awkward moment when all of your code has gone to shit and the last good commit was 10 commits ago because you missed files.... :/
That's probably Dennis and TIO right now.
I bet
Well I am off to write my language
Idk know what it will do
@flawr same as malty I watched the fractals one, but I'll check out him!
When I get a simple version I will upload to GitHub and link, first job is printing text
@Dennis may I use your Unicode chart? It would really help speed me up from not needing to make one.
23:46
@ChristopherPeart Sure. Potential side effects include people asking you how to type those characters.
2
:P Thanks for the warning
I doubt anyone will use my language anyway :/
And as soon as a first version comes out dennis will out golf me
@ChristopherPeart I wouldn't be too sure of that. Right now he has a 50/50 track record of outgolfing me in my own language
:P
I may have a chance
4 hours ago, by Dennis
PSA: I'm enabling output caching for TIO Nexus, which hopefully will reduce server load. Please report any bugs in http://talk.tryitonline.net.
that deserves a pin IMO
or at least an 11'ed self-star
23:57
Working on my lang is slow
yep
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