The Nineteenth Byte

Wheat Wizard

03:00

Is there some way to import and use a function without a newline or ;?

Pavel

Could you seperate commands with or?

quartata

@WheatWizard __import__

pretty easy

@Pavel The better way to get rid of eval or exec is to just delete the builtin in the code

Qwerp-Derp

@WheatWizard I got some pings, what's the haps?

Wheat Wizard

@Qwerp-Derp I solved the Logicode quine

print import("subprocess").Popen("<arbitrary bash>".replace("semicolon",chr(59)).replace("newline",chr(10)).split(),stdout=im‌port("subprocess".PIPE).communicate()[1])

it is TC

Qwerp-Derp

@WheatWizard Give code pls?

Wheat Wizard

03:04

@Qwerp-Derp what?

Qwerp-Derp

Sorry uhhh I got mixed up with different chat things

Can you give me the code?

Wheat Wizard

1

A: Golf you a quine for great good!

Logicode, 1368 1241 1096 bytes var a=0001010110001111010011110010110001101000001110000010100011001010101001010110101111101100011110111111011101100100010000011001010101101011111010000000101000110010101111000101011110010101111100111100010101111001010111110011111001111000101011110010101111100111110...

sorry there it is

quartata

globals could be used for assignment and and for statement separation

Qwerp-Derp

@WheatWizard You're a bloody legend, the 50 rep goes to you

Wheat Wizard

@DestructibleWatermelon you can run arbitrary bash without semicolons or newlines thus it is TC

Qwerp-Derp

03:06

Despite the underdocumentation you still figured it out, you're a legend

Wheat Wizard

@Qwerp-Derp Its actually not a very good solution I hope to improve it tommorrow

quartata

@WheatWizard even without that it's TC

Wheat Wizard

@quartata I thought so. How do you reckon?

Qwerp-Derp

@WheatWizard I can't award the bounty yet, will do so in a couple of days (once ATaco's one is over).

Wheat Wizard

@Qwerp-Derp Ok no rush

Qwerp-Derp

03:09

I should probably update the docs for the multiline conds

quartata

The only things that actually need newlines as opposed to just and/or are for while and assignment

assignment can be done with globals

and arbitrary for/while can be done with a generator that exhausts itself when a condition is met + list comprehension

Wheat Wizard

I'm not sure I follow how do you use ands/ ors

Pavel

Chain all the commands with or

And it will execute all of them

Wheat Wizard

for example how would you do a+=3;b.remove(3)

Pavel

Well, not asignment.

Wheat Wizard

03:12

oh quartata said assignment

I feel dumb now

actually you can do everyhing inside an assignmet

Destructible Watermelon

@WheatWizard without cheap system stuff as well I guess

Wheat Wizard

a,junkvar=(a+3,b.remove(3))

@DestructibleWatermelon ok fair enough

ATaco

el Honk

Qwerp-Derp

@WheatWizard Did you know about multiline conds?

quartata

@WheatWizard I meant something like this:

globals().update({"a": globals().get("a") + 3}) and b.remove(3)

ATaco

03:18

Also, @Pavel, strsub and strlen do not, to my knowledge, exist in lua.

Wheat Wizard

@quartata Ah that should work quite nicely

quartata

Although unpacking is clever too.

Wheat Wizard

This feels like it could make a good challenge

quartata

Yeah now I want to try this haha

Wheat Wizard

its decently hard and requires some lateral thinking

Pavel

03:20

@ATaco What is this then?

ATaco

str:sub(a,b) works where str is the string variable, alternatively string.sub(str,a,b). And strlen is string.len(str), str:len() or #str

Pavel

But... the manual... it says they're totally valid functions...

ATaco

[string "return strlen("Test")"]:1: attempt to call global 'strlen' (a nil value)

The manual lied to you.

Destructible Watermelon

that moment when you can kill yourself by throwing a fedora in the air in nethack

Pavel

How does that even work?

quartata

03:23

@WheatWizard [None for _ in __import__("itertools").cycle("a")] infinite loop

Pavel

That link is the officail doc, no?

ATaco

I don't even think that's the correct manual.

quartata

Wonder if it's shorter than recursion though

Qwerp-Derp

I've got a 30-line class for buttons and progress bars

ATaco

That's for Lua 2.4

Pavel

03:24

Mystery solved

ATaco

I'm running Lua 5.3, with Compatibility for 5.2

Wheat Wizard

@quartata can you stop the loop?

quartata

Actually wait -- while 1:pass works just fine >_>

Conor O'Brien

@quartata btw, since you know python, maybe you can help me: why are True, False, None, etc. capitalized in python?

Pavel

Why wouldn't they be?

ATaco

03:25

Are they optionally Capitalized?

Does TruE work?

Wheat Wizard

@quartata but you can't nest that

quartata

@WheatWizard I think the secret to that is to make a generator that stops appropriately

Conor O'Brien

>>> true
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name 'true' is not defined
>>> TruE
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name 'TruE' is not defined

Pavel

No

quartata

@WheatWizard true

Pavel

03:26

Is there any reason at all for them to be lowercase?

Other than saving a keystroke.

Downgoat

well it only makes sense

ATaco

Hmm, That's, strangely particular.

quartata

@ConorO'Brien Makes it more obvious that they're not variables I presume

Downgoat

like every other language, reserved words are lowercase

Destructible Watermelon

maybe its capitalised to make it easier to distinguish from most variables?

ATaco

03:26

Lua is true, Byond is any variation of True, TrUE, etc.

Downgoat

additionally the only things that are ever capitalized in sane languages are class names (and co.), not constants especially

ATaco

Ruby is true, C++ is true (I believe)

Downgoat

if you're going to capitalize it let it be TRUE

Conor O'Brien

@Downgoat in ruby have initial capitals for constants

@quartata I see

Pavel

All of Mathematica's built in symbols are capitals

Qwerp-Derp

03:27

And Python is True just to be a hipster

quartata

@Downgoat Well this isn't just a keyword. It's a value specifically

Conor O'Brien

@Qwerp-Derp python is a very "hipster" language for the lack of a better term

quartata

Honestly though who cares :P

Pavel

Figure 2: Lists instead of Arrays

quartata

@Pavel Thse are two very distinct things actually.

Qwerp-Derp

03:29

Clojure's types are all over the place

Pavel

Yeah

quartata

Also they're called lists in almost all high level languages

Qwerp-Derp

There's vectors [], sets {}, and "what-are-these-called-I-have-no-idea" ()

Conor O'Brien

@quartata I don't, I was just wondering

@Qwerp-Derp Tuples?

Pavel

Tuples

Ninja'd

Conor O'Brien

03:29

@quartata oh

why?

Qwerp-Derp

Not tuples, they're called sequences or something

quartata

What is that in reply to

Qwerp-Derp

There are lazy sequences, lazy vectors - I don't even know

I think they're either called sequences, lists or arrays

Pavel

See? Hipsterlang.

Qwerp-Derp

I don't even know at this point.

@Pavel Which lang? Clojure or Python? Or both?

Pavel

03:31

Both

Qwerp-Derp

But what was that in reply to

ATaco

Lua just has Tables

Wheat Wizard

@ConorO'Brien Usually because they are implemented as a linked list where as a vector is implemented slightly differently

Conor O'Brien

@quartata the naming of lists in higher languages rather than array

ATaco

i had to make my own stack library for RProgN

quartata

03:32

Because array means an array. A list is more abstract.

Destructible Watermelon

@Qwerp-Derp hi!

Pavel

As far as I can tell, hipster languages are the ones that aren't C-like

Conor O'Brien

@Pavel can't you c that? :P

Qwerp-Derp

@DestructibleWatermelon Hello hello

Also I have more rep than you now haha

quartata

C++11 is rather hipster.

Destructible Watermelon

03:33

well

thats on stack overflow?

ATaco

Lua is C like, yet is hipster too

Destructible Watermelon

stackoverflow is like rep overflow

Qwerp-Derp

@DestructibleWatermelon On PPCG

How much rep do you have on SO anyway?

Destructible Watermelon

ok, lets see then

quartata

I can't type things

Destructible Watermelon

03:34

@Qwerp-Derp the assosciation bonus

I don't actually use SO

Qwerp-Derp

@DestructibleWatermelon Just 101 right?

Destructible Watermelon

what is up with the numbers beneath users

Qwerp-Derp

I have like 150 rep

I have 2581 rep on PPCG

Destructible Watermelon

its not fair

;_;

Conor O'Brien

life 'aint

Destructible Watermelon

03:36

I've even made a winning submission to a question and it is not accepted

the one time

well

when I make this koth we'll see who's laughing then >:)

Qwerp-Derp

@DestructibleWatermelon >:U

Pavel

Is Perl hipster?

Destructible Watermelon

@Qwerp-Derp how many bounties have you gotten?

Qwerp-Derp

@DestructibleWatermelon Received or given out?

Pavel

All I know about perl comes from one xkcd

To generate #1 albums, 'jay --help' recommends the -z flag.

Qwerp-Derp

03:38

I've made a bounty for 50 rep before, but no one got it

Destructible Watermelon

@Qwerp-Derp received

Qwerp-Derp

@DestructibleWatermelon One for 50 rep

Destructible Watermelon

because I got a 200 rep one

Qwerp-Derp

It's the kangaroo one

@DestructibleWatermelon Which one?

Conor O'Brien

@Pavel which is to say, he has 8 :P

Pavel

03:39

I don't get it.

Conor O'Brien

what's your favorite conventional language

Destructible Watermelon

@Qwerp-Derp mine was decidedly more difficult to acquire. but not really because I was the only one competing

Qwerp-Derp

@DestructibleWatermelon Show me the question

Pavel

My favorite language is Java.

Unless Mathematica is conventional

Destructible Watermelon

2 votes and a 200 rep bounty

2

A: Quine that takes as input the name of a language and outputs the same thing implemented in the input language

Turtlèd, Python 2, and Python 3, 3 languages, only competing for bounty all oneliners follwed by newline Turtlèd @##'@r,r,r-{ +.r_}r{ +.r_}!!-.(3"';m=ord(input()[-1]);_='x=%r;m=ord(input()[-1]);_=%r;print(_.replace(chr(100)+chr(40),chr(100)+chr(40)+chr(114)+chr(97)+chr(119)+chr(95))%%(x,_) if ...

Conor O'Brien

03:40

@Pavel Long.parseLong("100", 2);

quartata

More than any other language Perl can be whatever the hell you decide you want it to be. So yes very hipster

Downgoat

@quartata JavaScript has one inconsistent capitlization: OMG!!1!111!1 IT SUCKS, HAHA STOOPID LANG. Python disregard convention: eh

Conor O'Brien

@Downgoat basically

Pavel

@ConorO'Brien wolframalpha.com/input/?i=100+binary+to+decimal

ATaco

JavaScript is stupid for many reasons.

quartata

03:41

@Downgoat I don't think I've ever really attacked JS on style

Conor O'Brien

@Pavel haha I meant 4

Destructible Watermelon

hey remember that ebay vulnreability? with JSfuck?

didn't they say they wouldn't even try to fix it?

Conor O'Brien

@ATaco so are many languages. No languages are perfect. (Sans Rust, or so I hear.)

Qwerp-Derp

In syntax, Elixir is practically demon-spawn.

ATaco

But I'm forced to use JS.

This is not okay.

quartata

03:42

With style things like that all that really matters is that it's consistent with itself

Destructible Watermelon

@Qwerp-Derp what was the bounty for?

quartata

If none wasn't capitalized I'd complain.

Qwerp-Derp

@DestructibleWatermelon I have no idea, I just got 50 rep

And 170 rep from upvotes

Conor O'Brien

why so?

Destructible Watermelon

@Qwerp-Derp lucky you...

ATaco

03:45

@Pavel, your equivalency could be checked just via memory[this][pointer[this]] = l==r and 1 or 0

Destructible Watermelon

I still have no votes on a really old answer for pretty much no reason

Pavel

I have never used lua before in my life, sooo....

Destructible Watermelon

why

Pavel

Which one

quartata

@Downgoat Furthermore there wasn't nearly as strong of a convention as what you're thinking back when Python was made. I mean, C++ was less than ten years old, and I can't think of any other languages then with lowercase true false I'm sure TRUE True and true were all common

Perl back then was still 1/""

Qwerp-Derp

03:48

Perl looks like random characters when golfed

I can't find any sense or reason in golfed Perl

It looks like a mishmash of everything from every aspect of programming, which is Perl in a nutshell

quartata

Can you find any sense or reason in golfed C?

Downgoat

@Qwerp-Derp perl is where code golf originated

@quartata this is question for @phase

H Walters

I hope C get lambdas... just so I can see how the signatures work

Qwerp-Derp

I hope Processing gets lambdas

quartata

GNU C has something close enough

{{
  int x(void) { return 0; }
  x;
}}

Destructible Watermelon

03:55

my brother is playing halo 5 and keeps killing his team, by driving them off cliffs

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@DJMcMayhem btw was this trying to look like clippy

Qwerp-Derp

WTH are those double braces

@DestructibleWatermelon Younger or older?

Destructible Watermelon

@Qwerp-Derp younger

quartata

GNU C statement expressions.

The contents inside are evaluated as a statement in their own block scope. So you can declare and return an anonymous function like that

It's heinous but

Pavel

'''
If you put a million monkeys at a million keyboards, one of them will eventually write a Java program.
The rest of them will write Perl programs.
'''

quartata

03:59

More likely they'll write Pyth programs

Destructible Watermelon

@Pavel false

Pavel

Oh?

Conor O'Brien

@DestructibleWatermelon yeah, false programs

Destructible Watermelon

eventually is not true

Conor O'Brien

@DestructibleWatermelon sure it is.

Destructible Watermelon

04:00

isn't the null program valid?

if it isn't, its likely they die first

and they like tapping s a lot I think

is the null program valid in Perl?

then the second part is true if it is

Conor O'Brien

why is the null program a problem

Destructible Watermelon

if the null program is valid it means they already "typed" it

quartata

Then exclude it.

H Walters

Nah, that null program was written when it got there

Pavel

Minimum to compile java is class a{public static void main(String[]a){}}

Also, notice Eventually is only on the first line

quartata

04:03

Actually Java will take an empty string just fine

and the proper term is almost surely

Pavel

Missing main: coud not load method main, no?

Destructible Watermelon

the statement is actually technically true

evetually is subjective

Conor O'Brien

C:\Users\Conor O'Brien\Documents\Programming\stacked\main (master)
λ echo.>t.java

C:\Users\Conor O'Brien\Documents\Programming\stacked\main (master)
λ javac t.java

C:\Users\Conor O'Brien\Documents\Programming\stacked\main (master)
λ

seems to be fine

quartata

It won't output any compiled objects but it won't throw an error.

Destructible Watermelon

and all the monkeys that are not the one specific monkey wrote empty perl programs

Conor O'Brien

04:04

@DestructibleWatermelon you're reading way too much into this >_>

Destructible Watermelon

or am i?

Qwerp-Derp

Dum dum dum dummm...

Destructible Watermelon

or maybe I'm reading the originally intended amount?

even if I'm not, the actual truth of intention matters little

H Walters

@ConorO'Brien Did you run it?

Conor O'Brien

@HWalters run what?

H Walters

04:06

The java program

Conor O'Brien

I don't think it generates anything

Destructible Watermelon

how should the input to programs using command look be formatted..?

New Main Posts

04:44

0

Q: zero zero zero zero zero zero

Given an integer n > 0, output the length of the longest contiguous sequence of 0 or 1 in its binary representation. Examples 6 is written 110 in binary; the longest sequence is 11, so we should return 2 16 → 10000 → 4 893 → 1101111101 → 5 1337371 → 101000110100000011011 → 6

code-golf

Qwerp-Derp

Hmmm I have a problem

ButtonWindow window = new ButtonWindow();
Button start = new Button(new float[] {10, 10},
                          new float[] {100, 50}, "Start",
                          new Runnable() {
                            public void run() {
                              end_check = true;
                              while (end_check) {
                                println(progress);
                                progress = (progress + 1) % 100;
                                other.update(progress / 100);

So I have this right

I need a function in start which continually increments progress

And I need a function end which stops that increment

How do I do that

ATaco

Anyone here know where The Nineteenth Byte got its name?

Qwerp-Derp

@ATaco I would give you a link but I don't have the link hang on

I'm finding something in Meta

Pavel

The nineteenth hole is a pub at a golf course

Qwerp-Derp

16

Q: Let's think of a creative name for our chatroom

I'm hoping we're nearing the end of beta soon, but even if we aren't, our chatroom name is so bland. "Code Golf." Look at all the creative names others have thought up: "Root Access" for Super User "The DMZ" for Security "The Renderfarm" for Blender "The Litter Box" for Pets "The Hangar" for Av...

discussion chat

And see the top answer

Pavel

04:50

It's also nineteen bytes long

Qwerp-Derp

That's true

I have a feeling that all chat rooms except for SO's are good

SO chatrooms are bad

Pavel

true dat

Except ours is the best chatroom

Qwerp-Derp

@Pavel Ayyy up top

Pavel

*high-fives*

ATaco

My long Treead quine which actually uses the threeads.

Pavel

04:56

I'm trying to think if there's a way it could be shorter with the new commands

Destructible Watermelon

@ATaco maybe you should just rename it Treead

ATaco

Darn, I can't Fix my typo

Destructible Watermelon

whats with the unprintables?

ATaco

Ascii 10, which is the character code for \n, plus 4, gives SOH

Pavel

Why do you need SOH?

Destructible Watermelon

04:58

cool

did you post it on site yet?

Pavel

There's already a shorter one

ATaco

I wrote a shorter one.

Destructible Watermelon

?

oh

ATaco

But that's my one that actually uses the Threads.

Destructible Watermelon

:P

ATaco

04:59

">34co<o>o<o">34co<o>o<o

Destructible Watermelon

no offence but yeah that is kind of lame comparatively

ATaco

That's why I don't like it.

And I do infact, like my other one.

Qwerp-Derp

@ATaco But it works

ATaco

But I don't like it.

Pavel

And it is codegolf.

Destructible Watermelon

05:01

I think my quine is kind of good

but really its about the same thing

Pavel

Everyone's making Threead quines now

Destructible Watermelon

?

who else?

I was referring to my quine in my language

Pavel

Oh

3

A: Golf you a quine for great good!

Threead, 105 bytes 60>91>60>93>62>91>111>105>54>50>99>111>100>62>93>60>91>60>93>62>91>99>111>62>93><[<]>[oi62cod>]<[<]>[co>] Try it online! Explanation: This doesn't use the threaded part of Threead... Part 1: 60>91>60>93>62>91>111>105>54>50>99>111>100>62>93>60>91>60>93>62>91>99>111>62>93>...

Destructible Watermelon

you'll like your quines more if you use them in a quinelike challenge

Destructible Watermelon

05:18

hmmm, what should be the main part of my 2d lang that isn't the fact that it is 2d?

Pavel

@DestructibleWatermelon Memory-tape based

Destructible Watermelon

ehh

then it ends up as 2d bf

I'd rather not

Pavel

Multiple instruction pointers acting independently

Destructible Watermelon

hmmm

how about some stuff about conveyor belts

how to parse conveyor belts

hmmm, maybe that would make a good challenge...

Pavel

Maybe, instruction pointer obeys gravity, sticks to conveyor belts (><v^)

Destructible Watermelon

05:26

nah

but actually I'm thinking parsing conveyor belts is a good challenge

you take a 2d string or list of strings representing a conveyor belt

if it is made of a, it goes clockwise, else counterclockwise

Pavel

20

Q: Solve the Halting Problem for Befinge

Let's define a simple 2D language, which we'll give the incredibly original name befinge. Befinge has 5 instructions. <>^v, as in most 2D esolangs, redirect the instruction pointer in their respective directions. The other instruction is ., a no-op. The instruction pointer starts out at the top-l...

code-golf interpreter halting-problem

Destructible Watermelon

and you print the belt but with > V < and ^

@Pavel not really

its always a loop

example

Pavel

Not dupe

Just similar

Destructible Watermelon

aaa
a a
aaa

becomes

>>v
^ v
^<<

@Pavel not really still

apart from being to do with 2d stuff

but then there should probably be a tag

DJMcMayhem

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ hahaha, no that was not on purpose

Helka Homba

05:31

Do we not have the challenge "Given a string, open a browser and Google that string"?

Pavel

Don't think so

Destructible Watermelon

aaa
a a aaa
a a a a
a aaa a
a     a
aaaaaaa

becomes

>>v
^ v >>v
^ v ^ v
^ >>^ v
^     v
^<<<<<<

Pavel

aaaaa
a a a
aaaaa

Valid?

Destructible Watermelon

nope

its always just a simple loop

topologically

Pavel

You should make it so people are allowed to use any character no in ><v^

Destructible Watermelon

05:38

yeah

thats not the main part of the challenge

its also not actually going to affect many

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Expose nondeterminism resulting from the OS thread scheduler As we all know, modern operating systems have thread schedulers that can pick different orders to schedule your threads based on internal logic which your code is not privy to. Normally you architect your multithreaded code to ensure t...