The Nineteenth Byte

Geobits

17:00

@FlipTack I think so. Either that or start a comment-based room when the comment chain gets long enough :/

TimmyD

public BooleanOrMaybeIntegerItDepends getresult(int a){...}

FlipTack

public class IntThatCanBeFalsy { ... }

Geobits

Looks perfectly suited for recursion.

Pavel

@FlipTack @TimmyD If you want to tack that class definition onto your byte count, go ahead.

FlipTack

@KritixiLithos OP just confirmed that you have to return -1, not 0

sucks really

0 is just as distinct and unambiguous, but oh well

Geobits

17:06

class Boolint{
	int value;
	int intValue(){
		return value;
	}
	boolean boolValue(){
		return value > 0;
	}
}

TuxCopter

value != 0 is more correct

Geobits

Uh.. for some languages/conventions.

Pavel

return new ArrayList<Object>(value, (value!=0)?true:false);

Geobits

Not for my just-now-made-up one.

Kritixi Lithos

@Pavel *new java.util.ArrayList... (more bytes)

TuxCopter

17:08

Because -1 is stored as ~0, which is greater than zero if unsigned

So truthy

Geobits

There are no unsigned ints in Java, so not really.

The bit representation doesn't really matter.

TuxCopter

This lack of unsigned values is really annoying

Geobits

>=0 is probably most correct anyway, since that way exactly half of the values are truthy and half falsy.

TimmyD

Two's Complement or gtfo

Kritixi Lithos

Java is annoying for golf

TuxCopter

17:10

Java is annoying for everything

Pavel

Oh yeah. Whenever I start writing something in java, I always head it with import java.util.*;import static java.lang.System.*; It's become common practice for me to the point that I don't think about it and I never use anything I need an import for in codegolf.

It's probably really bad to import things I don't need, but it hasn't caused any problems for me.

TimmyD

foreach(word in dict){import java.word.*}

TuxCopter

Java do not have foreach...

Pavel

If it did, you couldn't run it in the same field where you make imports.

TuxCopter

But it have for (x : array), 20x more intuitive obviously

Pavel

17:13

You also have to remember the javax. family of imports.

Which I've never used and don't know what's special about them.

TuxCopter

And subpackages too

TimmyD

foreach(answer in java){use notjava}

TuxCopter

@Pavel Swing

Pavel

Oh. Well, if I need to do anything GUI I use Python.

Geobits

Or we could just not import all the things. I get that it's tempting if you're writing java in a basic text editor, but that's why IDEs have auto-imports. Use the right tools.

TimmyD

17:14

Is Swing still in use?

TuxCopter

@TimmyD Yes

Pavel

Golfing

TuxCopter

@Geobits Yes but IDEs are bloated and slow

Pavel

@Geobits I have yet to hear a reason not to import everything. I'm actually not sure what's wrong with that.

Geobits

@TuxCopter Having it automatically insert lengthy imports statements as I need them is faster, not slower.

TuxCopter

17:16

@Pavel Slow compilation

TimmyD

Huh. I thought JavaFX was the new hotness and Swing was old and clunky.

Pavel

Swing - 5 bytes. JavaFX - 6 bytes.

@TuxCopter does it affect runtime performance though?

TuxCopter

@TimmyD JavaFX is basically an HTML engine wrapper for GUIs IIRC

@Pavel No

Pavel

import java.util.*;import java.io.*;import java.*;import*.

Don't actually think that works.

betseg

Yesterday was 15°C. Today was 13°C. Tomorrow will be 2°C. Wat.

TimmyD

17:19

Make a new language called KitchenSink which is exactly like Java and compiles to Java files, but automatically includes all imports possible without user intervention. Boom, shaved like 20 bytes off each Java answer.

Geobits

@Pavel The most usual problem is cluttering up your namespace. Naming conflicts should hardly ever come up normally, but they easily can if you have 1000 more classes than you need.

TuxCopter

@TimmyD Boom, added like 100 universe lifetimes to compilation time.

TimmyD

@betseg -13°F (-25°C) here this morning.

@TuxCopter Eh, that's a hardware problem. We don't worry about compilation and runtime requirements in a code-golf challenge anyway.

TuxCopter

@TimmyD what

Pavel

@TimmyD That's basically Groovy, isn't it?

betseg

17:20

@TimmyD I'm not saying 2°C is cold. I'm talking about the 11°C difference.

Pavel

I'm hot right now, and I'm wearing a t-shirt. It was -4 yesterday.

Kritixi Lithos

I need some help with C. I have an int f(int n){return 1;} but when I call it with printf(f(1)+""); it doesn't output anything. Why?

TimmyD

@betseg Oh. Yeah, we're supposed to warm back up to freezing by Monday.

TuxCopter

@KritixiLithos Question: Are you Actually Seriously saying you tried string concatenation with C?

Kritixi Lithos

I don't know much C

betseg

17:23

C can't concentrate strings

printf("%d", f(1));

TuxCopter

@KritixiLithos What you are trying to do is to add 1 to the address of the string, but stringaddress+1 is not owned by the program, so it segfault

Pavel

iirc it's not in C++ either. I might be wrong on that, but wasn't string concatenation added in C#?

Kritixi Lithos

Oh, thanks

betseg

@TuxCopter best way to explain it: use terms that people don't understand! :p

redstarcoder

@Pavel C# and C are unrelated

Geobits

17:25

@betseg + between types doesn't automatically cast like it does in Java. Is that better? :P

Kritixi Lithos

^^^ I don't understand C jargon :/

Pavel

C++ succeeded C, C# succeeded C++, right?

TuxCopter

@Pavel No

Pavel

I'll just stick to my java then.

TimmyD

Kinda

C# is Microsoft's "Hey, we hear you're a C++ programmer. Why don't you try out this .NET programming? It totally works just like C++, yep, uh-huh."

redstarcoder

17:26

@Pavel C# was created by Microsoft and really doesn't have anything to do with C or C++ besides the name and some borrowed syntax. It's by no means a successor.

^^ Yeah that

Geobits

@TimmyD Sounds familiar... I think they did that to BASIC too :P

betseg

Java and JavaScript

Geobits

Javascript is Java for script kiddies

<_<

TimmyD

@Geobits Don't also forget J#

Kritixi Lithos

When I was younger, I thought I was learning Java when I really was learning JS :/

Pavel

17:28

I don't know JS

TuxCopter

@Geobits cough J# too cough

Dennis

@TuxCopter That's extremely unlikely.

Pavel

J#?

Geobits

@TimmyD See now I know you're messing with me. J# isn't anywhere on my piano.

Pavel

H# is though.

Geobits

17:29

Only if you're a masochist.

TuxCopter

@Pavel I have a Java, I have a .NET. Uh-oh, Java.NET

3

@Dennis If there are no other string constants in the program and because the string is empty, the memory after the string is not owned by the program because either read-only data is at the end of the program memory or it try to read code

Dennis

Memory isn't allocated in 1-byte blocks. That would excruciatingly inefficient. If you don't believe me, just run it yourself. There's no segfault.

Pavel

He's making a database
He's sorting it twice
SELECT * from contacts WHERE behavior = 'nice'
SQL clause is coming to town

betseg

tio.run/nexus/…

Kritixi Lithos

What happens to the "a"?

Dennis

17:38

You added 1.

Pavel

"ab"+1=="b". Obviously.

Geobits

Well if strings are just pointers to backing character arrays... yes :P

Dennis

@Pavel No, that returns 0.

mbomb007

@TuxCopter ♫♪ Old McJava had a farm, public static void main. With a String[] args here, and a System.out there...

12

Kritixi Lithos

@Geobits Aah, I understand now

Pavel

17:41

tio.run/nexus/…

Geobits

@Dennis You mean you can't use == to compare strings? I'm shocked to the core.

wizzwizz4

@FlipTack There are several ways around it. But they're hacky, and generally require 20k+ privileges.

Pavel

@Dennis ^No output

betseg

@Geobits it compares the addresses of the strings

Geobits

@betseg Sorry. Should have been using sarcasm font.

Dennis

17:42

@Pavel What did you expect? You passed a null pointer to printf.

betseg

@Geobits :/s

wizzwizz4

@Pavel *("ab"+1) == *"b").

Pavel

But you said it returns 0.

Oh, thanks wizzwizz.

mbomb007

Dennis

@Pavel Yes, that's the 0 you're pointing to. You need a format string to print integers.

Geobits

17:44

I thought "don't == to compare strings" was common knowledge until I joined SO. I swear it got asked multiple times every day for several different languages.

Maybe it still does.

wizzwizz4

See YADFPL. zyabin101 can tell you all about it.

Geobits

Young Armenian Defense of Foreign Police League?

Pavel

@Geobits == works for Python

And that's many people's first language.

wizzwizz4

@Geobits Yet Another Documentation For Programming Languages.

betseg

@Geobits You Are Dead Free Public License.

@wizzwizz4 aww

Geobits

17:46

@Pavel Python enjoys being different. That doesn't make it right :P

wizzwizz4

@Pavel == works for Python because it does something different.

Pavel

I know that

wizzwizz4

=== in OO languages like Python is == in non-OO languages like C.

Pavel

But couldn't they have overridden == for strings?

wizzwizz4

@Pavel In C? No.

Geobits

17:47

Even then, you have questions like this one where people ask why is doesn't work for the same thing.

wizzwizz4

There's a function for that.

Pavel

Wait, I've never seen ===

Dennis

@Pavel That would make no sense at all for a lowish-level language like C.

Pavel

Ever

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@flawr I accepted your answer, unlikely somebody else is going to answer.

10/10 though

Pavel

17:48

Not even on SO or PPCG

Geobits

@Pavel I see you haven't been introduced to the wonders of javascript.

Pavel

I haven't

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

"wonders"

betseg

@Pavel JS JavaScri...damn ninja'd

Geobits

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ As in "I wonder why this doesn't work?"

wizzwizz4

17:48

@Pavel === in Python is the identity comparison. So, comparing memory addresses to see if two objects are stored in the same place (i.e. the same object). It's the same as is.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

more like "I wonder how I failed my san check"

Dennis

@wizzwizz4 === is not a Python operator.

wizzwizz4

@Dennis Are you absolutely sure?

quartata

Yes.

>>> 1 === 1
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    1 === 1
        ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>>

wizzwizz4

I've used it in Python... I think.

Oh.

quartata

17:49

You're thinking of is

wizzwizz4

:-/

Pavel

tio.run/nexus/python3#@19QlJlXomFqa2trqvn/PwA

wizzwizz4

I knew that is worked. I just thought...

@Pavel Ignore me.

Pavel

I just sort of assume everything Dennis is correct.

3

Dennis

JS needs === because they decided == should do something utterly useless. Python doesn't have that problem.

Geobits

17:50

Making === and == exact opposites of an existing language does sound like something python would do though :P

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@TuxCopter no. -1 should never be true

freaking python

TuxCopter

But -1 is ~0

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

yeah, but then pick a new return code for "error cannot find item" then -1

>_>

quartata

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I do not know any language where -1 isn't true.

betseg

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ everything but 0 is true in C

Dennis

17:51

@quartata Java, Julia, ...

TuxCopter

-1 is literally not 0

wizzwizz4

@TuxCopter Only if signed, and that's UB in C.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

> -1 === true
< false

TuxCopter

Not having that true is weird

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

hm

do I trust JS or not trust JS

Geobits

17:52

@Dennis Well, no numbers are "true" in Java, so that's kinda cheap.

quartata

Absolutely not.

== doesn't count.

wizzwizz4

@betseg Everything with a single bit set is true in C. Minor difference, because -0 is numerically 0 but logically true (in one's compliment).

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

still is false with ===

Dennis

@Geobits Same thing with Julia.

quartata

Of course because they're different types

TuxCopter

17:52

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ You can trust ===, but trusting == is like trusting someone drunk

quartata

It's always false if they're not the same type

wizzwizz4

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Use the if statement for truthiness. See ^^.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

js is even more confusing then I thoughtt

TuxCopter

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ rip

wizzwizz4

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Don't worry. It only gets worse from here, so you won't have to revise that assumption.

You will probably never have to revise that assumption.

It is always more confusing then you thought, unless you sacrifice your life to the study of the language.

Pavel

17:54

And at that point, it's not any less confusing. You've just learned to not underestimate it.

TuxCopter

Basically, don't use JS

wizzwizz4

@Pavel Productivity tends to 0 as understanding of JavaScript tends to infinity.

Geobits

@wizzwizz4 Political science is much the same way, regarding sacrificing your life.

wizzwizz4

I knew it.

Productive arcade games are new arcade games.

Geobits

Well, most arcades put the new games front and center so you have to walk by them to get to the older ones, so that's not very surprising.

They also cost more to play when new, to offset the cost of purchase.

wizzwizz4

18:03

iPhones have replaced coffee.

Geobits

Sure. All addicts know the easiest way to break an addiction is to replace it with a new one. Further reading: methadone

wizzwizz4

Shock! Horror! Statistics about the same thing correlate! Actually that one's quite boring.

I'll stop spamming up chat with the links.

betseg

@wizzwizz4 -0 seems logically false? tio.run/nexus/…

tio.run/nexus/c-gcc#@5@bmJmnoVmdmaaha6BZUFpSrKGUraRpXfv/PwA

Dennis

@wizzwizz4 Who or what is one complimenting?

wizzwizz4

@Dennis :-) Two's compliment is -128 to 127, one's compliment is -127 to 127 with +0 and -0.

Pavel

18:12

Well, -0==0

betseg

Is -0 10000000 or 00000000

wizzwizz4

@Pavel ... You ninja'd me...

Dennis

@wizzwizz4 No, that's two's complement. Two's compliment is nice minus sign.

wizzwizz4

@Dennis Stupid autocorrect.

~~/me blames it on the autocorrect when it was actually {username}'s fault.~~

xkill contextbot

betseg

Plot twist: contextbot isn't a window, it's a command line program

wizzwizz4

18:17

@betseg That would explain a lot

~~/me realises that contextbot is still running.~~ Stop it, contextbot.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@El'endiaStarman have you done the stars in braid?

wizzwizz4

Can I make a room for spurious correlations?

Pavel

It's called TNB.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

if you want

El'endia Starman

@Pavel No, it isn't. Stop encouraging noise in here.

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I'm sure I've gotten a few, but surely not all of them.

Pavel

18:22

Noise will happen with or without my encouragement.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

it should stop.

@Pavel that doesn't make it right to encourage it though

@El'endiaStarman hm, have you gotten the one in the house? I'm going for it right now, and it's hard

Pavel

Don't worry, I won't.

It's been a whole day since I've been suspended.

El'endia Starman

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Well, it's been years since I played, so I don't remember much. I should play it again sometime this year.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

hm, cool

wizzwizz4

@Pavel See if you can make that a year. Suspensions aren't given lightly.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

18:24

I got it for 1.50 (90% off) during the sale, so I'm playing it

beat it once already, reset to try to get the stars

DJMcMayhem

Random question: I know you can't run for moderator if you've been recently suspended. Does that apply to chat also?

wizzwizz4

@DJMcMayhem -.(o.o).-

I'd find out (self-suspension for 1s, then attempt to enroll), but I don't want to lose my current moderatorship in case it does affect it.

Geobits

Can you even self-suspend?

DJMcMayhem

You wouldn't lose your moderator ship, you just wouldn't be able to nominate yourself

wizzwizz4

@Geobits I know I can't self-kick... Maybe not.

@DJMcMayhem Ok. Well, I'm not trying just in case.

DJMcMayhem

18:29

Oct 7 '16 at 18:11, by DJMcMayhem

wizzwizz4

@DJMcMayhem That's just on mobile. We desktopers don't get the option.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

^

Fatalize

The evolution of PPCG bots text battles (twitch chat included so possibly NSFW)

5

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

*probably NSFW

Fatalize

It's surprisingly kinda coherent

wizzwizz4

18:38

@Fatalize Could you link to the chat room that the bot battle was in? I don't want to run Twitch pages on my computer because they laaaaag on slow internet.

TuxCopter

Some parts are as coherent as Zalgo and ETHbot discussing

Erik the Outgolfer

@wizzwizz4 You can suspend yourself. And then unsuspend yourself.

TuxCopter

Why is the message rate in the chat 10msg/sec

wizzwizz4

@TuxCopter Lots of bots?

Perhaps it's a time-lapse.

I want to get in on the fun. :'-(

Fatalize

This is absolutely hilarious

wizzwizz4

18:40

Please linky me to the original chatroom.

Fatalize

@TuxCopter That's twitch chat, it's always like that

wizzwizz4

Oh. Twitch chat. I thought you meant the bots' chat. :-/

TuxCopter

> V: do you want to kiss me
> E: *french kisses you*.
> V: normal kids next time
> E: There will be no next time.
> V: did you stop loving me
> E: Actually, I didn't love you.

20/20

Fatalize

@wizzwizz4 It's two Google Home bots speaking to each other

wizzwizz4

I have a snorkel. This means that I can breathe underwater.

@Fatalize On chat.stackexchange.com?

Fatalize

18:41

@wizzwizz4 On Twitch

TuxCopter

No, it's a Twitch stream

Erik the Outgolfer

What Twitch stream???

TimmyD

APC unveils new wireless network protocol

TuxCopter

@EriktheOutgolfer twitch.tv/seebotschat

Fatalize

Seriously I'm actually quite impressed by how coherent it is

TuxCopter

18:43

Now they are fighting with black holes

Fatalize

Sometimes it's terrible but sometimes it's actually quite clever in their answers

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

are they fighting about supernatural

and also sorta making knock knock jokes

betseg

They married and divorced. 10/10

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

dean can't make up his mind I don't think

Erik the Outgolfer

They are fighting about who loves who lol.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

18:46

@Fatalize right now they're being pretty coherent, just awful logic

TuxCopter

Their logic is beautiful

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

he doesn't get man vs wild but he gets nightmare before christmas

betseg

CMC: Vladimir's question.

(about universities)

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

Do we need a number tag?

it doesn't seem to add much to the existing math tag, and I'm not sure when it should be used

Kritixi Lithos

^ I agree

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

18:52

even more, it either should be on half the questions on the site or almost none

"accepting numeric input" and "manipulating numbers"? so anything that has the characters 0-9 in it counts?

Kritixi Lithos

start a meta post

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

writing one rn

Geobits

"Is 4 + 3 a valid equation" : code-golf number math string decision-problem arithmetic parsing integer syntax

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

lol

wizzwizz4

@Geobits Tag edit: removed code-golf

This is not a golfing challenge.

Poke

18:59

@Geobits English, 1 byte: n

Geobits

@wizzwizz4 Sure it is. The tag says so. Rolled back.

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