The Nineteenth Byte

El'endia Starman

19:00

Huh, interesting.

Yeah 'Murica!

mınxomaτ

You have the Adreno GPU and I have the Mali AFAIK.

My CPU has .15GHz more per core.

El'endia Starman

Incidentally, does that mean that programs (in a browser) which use the GPU would perform the same on both the phone and the computer?

mınxomaτ

They would perform better on both. But your computer probably doesn't run an ARM processor, so the GPU is different.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Oh dear loard I had to use this language today. It's not even accurate and the documentation for it is worse than a lot of CG languages.

Not to mention the fact that it can't parse functions inside parenthesis.

mınxomaτ

Sounds like a RegEx parser :D

VTCAKAVSMoACE

19:07

Even better - it had autofill for things that caused syntax errors.

That's how you know it's a top-quality language.

El'endia Starman

@mınxomaτ Err, I don't think that answers my question. You said before that GPU-accelerated JS can't max out the GPU's capability due to technical limitations, and the GPU-accelerated numbers in your tool were in the 2000-3000 range on both my phone and my laptop. Then, would that mean that 3D things (for example) would take roughly the same amount of time to render on both devices?

mınxomaτ

The test doesn't perform 3D things, but GPGPU floating point calculations. In your case, if you get the same numbers, the performance is the same.

Rendering of any kind, including 3D is a completely different workload.

El'endia Starman

Oh, so GPGPU stuff is for lots of number crunching?

mınxomaτ

Well, yes. As it stands for General-purpose computing on graphics processing units

TuxCopter

there will be advocad emoji in unicode soon

VTCAKAVSMoACE

19:14

@TuxCopter citation-needed

TuxCopter

@VTCAKAVSMoACE refinery29.com/2016/10/128235/new-emoji-avocado-bacon

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@TuxCopter wow

TuxCopter

Also avoemoji.com

And this

It's added by Apple but I think it will be added in Unicode for compatibility

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@TuxCopter uhh that thing has a ToS.

TuxCopter

WTF

> You must be 13 years or older to use avoemoji.com.

WTFFFFF

I tought COPPA only applied to accounts

Wait WTF it have accounts

VTCAKAVSMoACE

19:18

Hey look a Harambe emoji

Poke

news.microsoft.com/november-2016-event

TuxCopter

ok this site is weird

Poke

thoughts?

feersum

@WheatWizard So where I am I supposed to post brain-flak modulo again?

I tried again and now have 46 bytes.

TuxCopter

@Microsoft Please, for the sake of logic, stop creating a lot of paid things when free equivalents exists

Sees Windows is the most used OS in the world

ok

VTCAKAVSMoACE

19:20

@Poke I have difficulty giving the thumbs up to anything Microsoft anymore, especially when free equivalents exist already that are likely better (knowing Microsoft coding practices >.>).

TuxCopter

@feersum So you brute-force Mersenne twister and create a really short Brain-Flak modulo? ok

Wheat Wizard

@feersum You can post it here or wherever else. It doesn't fit the specs of a question very well so you may need to write wrapper for the program to make it valid.

feersum

Well that's kind of annoying to have to write another program and post the modulo in an unrelated question.

Wheat Wizard

yeah I know

feersum

Couldn't you make a tips question about how to modulo in brainflak or something?

Wheat Wizard

19:26

I think I will

feersum

tips is a loophole that allows you to write duplicates and language-specific questions.

Poke

@VTCAKAVSMoACE Consider business use. Suppose a company already has a contract with microsoft for office/skype for business/etc

TuxCopter

@DrMcMoylex Your name o_O

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Poke Consider business use: reducing yearly costs significantly by turning to similar, no-cost programs.

TuxCopter

^

I was about to say this

Yodle

19:29

@VTCAKAVSMoACE Are there any downsides to that?

TuxCopter

No

Poke

@Yodle Yes

Wheat Wizard

@feersum Perhaps you should just post it on the existing tips page

feersum

If you use software all from the same vendor, it presumably makes your system administration easier.

Yodle

I feel like there are, or everyone would stop using paid services

Poke

19:30

No-cost programs often lack the level of support that you get from a vendor like Microsoft

TuxCopter

If you don't use software from Microsoft you save load of $$$

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Yodle Yes - but there are also downsides to using the typical paid programs.

Wheat Wizard

11

Q: Tips for Golfing in Brain-Flak

Brain-flak is a stack-based turing-tarpit language, written collaboratively between me, DJMcMayhem, and 1000000000. Some users are very experienced in the mysterious ways of Brain-Flak. So I thought it a good idea to set up this question as a way for us, and hopefully others too, to share our k...

feersum

@WheatWizard OK, that works

VTCAKAVSMoACE

See: Microsoft's tendency for poor-quality code control and unhelpful assistance.

Poke

19:31

Source?

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Poke Sometimes they're better too.

DrMcMoylex

+1 for DrMcMoylex. :D — DrMcMoylex yesterday

Poke

"better"

TuxCopter

@DrMcMoylex oic

DrMcMoylex

@feersum That's insane

Poke

19:32

that is very subjective

feersum

All right, I've tested it for stack-cleanliness.. hopefully no stupid oversights.

TuxCopter

@DrMcMoylex Is V entirely backward-compatible with vim?

Wheat Wizard

Hopefully

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Poke Wikipedia page, Programmers.SE, news articles.

@Poke So is "level of support". ;)

Poke

@VTCAKAVSMoACE Not true. Security issues are addressed promptly with paid vendors

VTCAKAVSMoACE

19:34

@Poke And they inherently aren't with free vendors?

TuxCopter

And very promptly with FOSS

Poke

Not all the time

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Poke Not all the time with paid vendors either.

TuxCopter

^

Poke

High risk vulns will get fixed with paid vendors

because there's urgency

TuxCopter

19:35

And will also be fixed with free software

Poke

not always

TuxCopter

Probably as quickly as a paid vendor

Poke

that is unlikely

TuxCopter

Known FOSS generally have thousands of contributors

DrMcMoylex

@TuxCopter No. There are a few differences. 1), 0 is deprecated, you need | instead (basically the same thing) 2) <esc> and <cr> at the end are implicit, 3) the default indent settings are different and probably some other things I've forgotten

TuxCopter

19:37

ok

DrMcMoylex

Oh, and registers are pre-filled

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Poke Considering most distributions of Windows are still vulnerable to really simple things like the IPv6 RA flood that is fixable by tweaking a default option and alike, I'm gonna give that one a no.

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

c++ is whitespace sensitive

TuxCopter

?

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@TuxCopter #define

@Poke FOSS is usually more secure, and sometimes better, than proprietary software. That's why I always look for FOSS.

feersum

19:39

@WheatWizard Posted.

DrMcMoylex

@TuxCopter Oh yeah three other things. 1) H and L are different 2) / and ? can't insert the contents of a register with <C-r> and 3) there's a neovim bug with block wise operators

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Not to mention that a lot of the time, users can fix the bugs themselves rather than relying on a company whose main focus is profit.

Poke

@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC I don't know where you're getting this information

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Poke Look at all the windows security bugs. Now look at Linux/BSD.

Even Mac OS X, which is partially open source, is more secure than windows.

TuxCopter

@Poke FOSS have thousands of contributors, when a bug is posted it's generally fixed in some hours

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

19:41

and source is open so it's easier for white hats to find bugs

TuxCopter

Halloween documents

The Halloween documents comprise a series of confidential Microsoft memoranda on potential strategies relating to free software, open-source software, and to Linux in particular, and a series of media responses to these memoranda. Both the leaked documents and the responses were published by Eric S. Raymond in 1998. The documents are associated with Halloween because many of them were originally leaked close to the 31st of October in different years. == Overview == The first Halloween document, requested by senior vice-president James Allchin for the attention of senior vice-president Paul Maritz...

Nice Microsoft

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Poke 1, 2, 3.

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

> These documents acknowledged that free software products such as Linux were technologically competitive with some of Microsoft's products, [4] and set out a strategy to combat them.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC lol

arda

any book recommendations about language design?

VTCAKAVSMoACE

19:42

Hey @Arda.

Wheat Wizard

@feersum I am not sure that it is stack clean

arda

@VTCAKAVSMoACE hey vtc

TuxCopter

@arda The Dragon book

feersum

I tested it. Do you have a counterexample?

arda

long time no see

TuxCopter

19:43

Oh wait it's about compiler design

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@arda Likewise

@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Careful what you wish for. :P

mınxomaτ

Stop pinging me with random questions

4

arda

The language will be for hardware interaction. I can just make stuff that feels right, but I want to make it the best language I can make

Dmitry Kudriavtsev

@mınxomaτ Do you like pie?

7

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@mınxomaτ I realized that, I deleted it.

Do you?

Dmitry Kudriavtsev

19:45

depends on what kind

TuxCopter

@DmitryKudriavtsev That's some quick stars

arda

@mınxomaτ how was your day?

DrMcMoylex

Deleted pings are actually more obnoxious because you still get the notification but then have no idea what caused it

3

Dmitry Kudriavtsev

oh yeah I didn't even notice those

TuxCopter

> You have fully used your vote allowance for today

;__________________________________________________;

Dmitry Kudriavtsev

19:45

> mortifications

TuxCopter

> mortification

arda

@TuxCopter I starred for you

Dmitry Kudriavtsev

ninja'd

DrMcMoylex

DYAC

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@TuxCopter I have never encountered that

TuxCopter

19:45

@DmitryKudriavtsev y u do dis ;_;

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

I vote, but not that often

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@arda If you're just gonna go for language for hardware interaction, just go for it with assembly and practice. Books can be helpful, but nothing beats raw practice. :)

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@DrMcMoylex I'll edit the message out next time, maybe?

VTCAKAVSMoACE

...still accurate.

DrMcMoylex

Or just don't do it. If it's already too late, there's nothing you can really do but be more careful in the future

Poke

19:47

@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC How can you say this?

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Oh I need to get a new profile pic, it's past Halloween

Poke

@TuxCopter Where is the proof of this? Paid vendors are paid to fix their shit when something is wrong

TuxCopter

And bug are less likely in FOSS

arda

@VTCAKAVSMoACE nah, it'll be a language for simulation of hardware (well, I'm testing an idea, which is mostly, well, you write the code of objects in the game, and you'll be able to control movement, get data from "sensors" etc). I might implement lua or python for the project but I want to make a language that'd fit well too. I'm asking here because you people have tons of esolangs.

TuxCopter

Because, again, thousands of contributors

VTCAKAVSMoACE

19:49

@TuxCopter No.

TuxCopter

@arda Like Verilog?

VTCAKAVSMoACE

It's just more likely to be fixed quickly.

Wheat Wizard

@feersum I am torn 0 0 7 destroys the seven so It is not stack clean. However 0%0 is undefined so I might let it slide. I have to mull this over for a bit.

arda

I have one too but well, that's exactly why I don't want to design this language without researching a bit more: even I hate coding with my esolang.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@arda Ohhh, I see. Why not go down to base level? I'm doing this with Cardamom.

feersum

19:50

@WheatWizard WTF? Of course you can't modulo 0.

Wheat Wizard

Yes

VTCAKAVSMoACE

You just have to abstract-ify your components.

arda

@TuxCopter hmm, I'll need to check that. Thanks.

feersum

Plus, your bounty specified positive arguments only.

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Poke Linux > Mac OS X > Windows

Poke

19:50

That is an opinion

arda

@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC macos is better than windows? hahaha no

TuxCopter

Javascript says n % 0 is NaN

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC (Mac OS X is now macOS)

TuxCopter

Make sense

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@TuxCopter Put a -0 instead.

TuxCopter

19:51

@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC You reversed a thing. Linux > Windows > Mac OS X

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Poke 90% are on windows, zero on linux

TuxCopter

Because at least Windows don't require proprieatary hardware -.-

feersum

@WheatWizard > Your program must be capable of taking the modulus for all positive (non-zero) arguments.

TuxCopter

> zero

FALSE

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@TuxCopter that are on the list

VTCAKAVSMoACE

19:52

@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC OBJECTION!

arda

I'm using linux lately and tbh yeah, it's better than windows in some ways, and those ways, I use a lot, but macos is not useful for nearly anyone, especially with latest macbooks.

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

It's the killer screen switching feature

arda

Seriously, there are better chromebooks than new macbooks atm.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@arda Although the latest Macbook pro looks sweeeeet.

arda

@VTCAKAVSMoACE OBJECTION: I can't use vim without esc.

TuxCopter

19:52

But it's sweeeeeet sh*t

ArtOfCode

oh boy religious wars about operating systems this'll be fun

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@arda I was talking about the design sheesh

TuxCopter

@ArtOfCode lnux ftw

Wheat Wizard

yes, but it also stack clean is defined such that it includes programs running outside of the domain. I think I am going to award the bounty but I have to think a bit about this first.

ArtOfCode

dual-boot linux/windows is my poison of choice

arda

19:53

I want to spam esc while raging out of csgo, and I don't want to break my touchscreen, no thank you.

El'endia Starman

@ArtOfCode Want to start kicking people? :P

arda

@ArtOfCode that's what I'm doing.

But I'm starting to hate windows lol

The wifi driver is terrible

ArtOfCode

@El'endiaStarman done enough of that today :)

@arda heh, same

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Oh idea

feersum

@WheatWizard I don't understand. What aspect of the challenge is not met?

arda

19:53

But well, I keep it for unity and stuff.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Can the stars be used as a form of polling?

ArtOfCode

I'm only using it because games and Office

TuxCopter

@VTCAKAVSMoACE NO

ArtOfCode

@VTCAKAVSMoACE yes they can ;)

El'endia Starman

@VTCAKAVSMoACE Please no.

TuxCopter

19:54

Use Strawpoll

Wheat Wizard

@feersum Technically your program is not stack clean

arda

I get better FPSes in CSGO in linux, lol

VTCAKAVSMoACE

I'm getting mixed signals here

feersum

@WheatWizard How do you define that?

Poke

It's not worth discussing this anymore

ArtOfCode

19:54

@VTCAKAVSMoACE except my signals are deliberately misleading

arda

The linux graphics drivers are much better than they were a few years ago.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@ArtOfCode oh

TuxCopter

I use Windows because... <sub>I am too lazy to install Linux RIP</sub>

VTCAKAVSMoACE

welllllp

TuxCopter

@VTCAKAVSMoACE ?

Wheat Wizard

19:54

@feersum Given an input arity (a tuple of positions on the active and inactive stack before the program runs), and an output arity (another tuple of the same sort after the program runs) and a function that maps between the two, a program is is considered stack clean iff it performs the function, ends on the stack it started, and the values on the stack that are not in the input remain the same regardless of the conditions of the stack.

ArtOfCode

strawpoll is an actuall poll so that should be a thing if this is a thing at all

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Poke DOS, DOS, DOS & Windows 98 & 95, DOS & Windows 98 & 95, DOS & Windows 98 & 95, DOS, DOS, ... VB-Script, Windows, bootsector generic, Apple II, ... Microsoft Word

arda

How to get kicked from Microsoft Student Partner program: say stuff I said above :P

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

no linux

feersum

@WheatWizard It does that.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

19:55

strawpoll.me/5924904

ArtOfCode

@arda yeah, some games are better on Linux, but most games still support Windows alone

TuxCopter

The third most upvoted link on SHENZHEN I/O subreddit is rickroll in SHENZHEN I/O ._.

arda

well, windows is much better for end users and some devs, but I don't do much on my pc lately, and terrible wifi drivers don't help me lurk on reddit.

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

And one unix system on this list en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_computer_worms

@Poke

Wheat Wizard

@feersum Not quite, it changes the 7 in 0 0 7. But I don't think it matters too much.

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

19:56

> well, windows is much better for end users and some devs

WHAT

ArtOfCode

@arda hint: get an Apple AirPort

feersum

@WheatWizard But you defined the domain of the function as strictly positive.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Anybody do Java?

arda

@ArtOfCode those stuff costs 500usd here

TuxCopter

Not me

ArtOfCode

19:57

receives the wifi, gives you an ethernet cable, because ethernet drivers are generally way better

@arda not the extreme, just the basic

El'endia Starman

@VTCAKAVSMoACE Geobits and a couple others, whose names escape me at this moment.

arda

@ArtOfCode basic one costs 500usd

ArtOfCode

cost me £79, I'm hearing similar figures (~$80) in the US

TuxCopter

GamrCorps is a Java speaker

Fatalize made Brachylog in Java

ArtOfCode

@VTCAKAVSMoACE in theory yes, in practice... I may be terrible at it

betseg

19:57

.o/

arda

If I had 500usd, I'd spend that to ~~steam~~ getting a new pc

@betseg heyyy

TuxCopter

@betseg ·o\

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@JavaUsers: I am prepared to be burned at stake.

TuxCopter

@VTCAKAVSMoACE ಠ_ಠ member variable in uppercase

betseg

@arda they really are

El'endia Starman

19:58

@VTCAKAVSMoACE ...is that Node.js in Java?

TuxCopter

public class Node extends ArrayList<Node> {

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@TuxCopter That's actually the way it's supposed to be.

@El'endiaStarman No. The class is called node.

ArtOfCode

@VTCAKAVSMoACE so the results of this: Windows still corners the market, followed by Deb/Ubuntu/Mint, followed by macOS

arda

@ArtOfCode weird. Last time I went at apple store istanbul, even the lowest ones costed around 300-400usd.

DrMcMoylex

> Your program be stack-clean. This means that it should work as long as there are two positive integers on top of the active stack regardless of the preconditions; and that all the other elements will appear untouched at the termination of the program.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

19:59

@TuxCopter This is what I was talking about.

ArtOfCode

@arda istanbul... yeah, okay, that wouldn't surprise me

Wheat Wizard

@feersum I did hence the conflict. The function is defined only for positive values while stack cleanliness is still defined for all values. I think I should have been more careful wording the original question. I still am reviewing your answer but as it stands I think I will allow the program to be not stack clean outside the domain on the function

ArtOfCode

probably cheaper to get one from the US and ship it internationally

TuxCopter

You are making a class extending a list of this class???

Wheat Wizard

@DrMcMoylex Ok it looks like I was specific

arda

19:59

TuxCopter

Is this even possible?

VTCAKAVSMoACE

It is an Object defined as a List of itself.

Wheat Wizard

this is resolved then

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@TuxCopter Yesss, with no errors and amazing memory usage.

arda

it means that linux users can't click vote

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