The Nineteenth Byte

@El'endiaStarman Because "spoiling" something implies that there's something special/novel about it. PE problems are run-of-the-mill graduate math problems. While I can understand the desire for people to solve the problems themselves rather than "cheating" and using solutions found online, it's not really "spoiling" the challenge when a solution is posted, since 1) it can be easily ignored, 2) understanding the solution is often as difficult as understanding the problem, and...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

you're killing me with suspense ._.

LegionMammal978

^

Anonymous

3) you wouldn't get upset with your math professor for "spoiling" a PE problem because they taught the Chinese remainder theorem and its implications.

LegionMammal978

@Mego and 4) One could find a much more efficient solution themself.

Anonymous

9:26 PM

Perhaps

El'endia Starman

@Mego Knowing the math doesn't mean that you know how to implement it algorithmically.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I think El'endia is complaining about hard-to-ignore, out in the open solutions blatantly posted in a common place

or maybe that's just me

Anonymous

Sharing a brute-force solution causes no harm, because such a solution is very straightforward, and almost certainly won't solve the problem in a reasonable amount of time. Similarly, sharing a clever, efficient solution won't cause harm either, because the effort required to understand the logic involved is very similar to the effort required to learn about the topic and devise a solution yourself.

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ That's largely right.

@Mego Running a solution is easy though.

LegionMammal978

^

Anonymous

9:29 PM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ SE chat has an ignore button. Nobody forces you to read every challenge/question on SE. Unless the solution is spray-painted on the wall of a large building, it's easy to ignore.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

ignore users, yes, but not messages

El'endia Starman

@Mego There's no guarantee whatsoever that everyone will ignore a blatant solution posted in chat.

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman If someone wanted to cheat, they can easily find other solutions online and run them. Even better (for them), they could just look at a compiled list of answers. Posting one solution doesn't do any harm, because there are hundreds of other solutions already out there.

El'endia Starman

@Mego I don't want TNB to be a place you can cheat from.

Anonymous

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Ignore the user, wait for enough messages to be posted that it's off your screen, then unignore the user and peruse the transcript to see what you missed. It's not difficult (I do it all the time when people decide to wax political).

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

9:32 PM

@Mego it does encourage more wrong behaviour

@Mego fair enough. (btw what is "wax political"?)

El'endia Starman

@Mego That's far more complex than "Don't post solutions publicly.".

Anonymous

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Nobody is going to look at the TNB transcript to find a solution to a PE problem. They're going to look at one of those very popular Github repos. Besides, "wrong" is relative.

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ "wax" in this case is somewhat synonymous with "turn" or "become".

Anonymous

All I'm saying is, a PE solution being posted in here is not a big enough deal to throw a fit over.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman oh, as opposed to wane?

El'endia Starman

9:34 PM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Actually, no. :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman oh.

El'endia Starman

"wane" isn't used in a similar idiomatic sense as "wax" in phrases like "wax political".

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

oh, okay. TIL

El'endia Starman

There's probably an EL&U question on this...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

probably

If a language compiles to a language called "BASIC", what should the new language be called? "COMPLEX"? :P

Anonymous

9:35 PM

"Wax political" means "to go on about a political topic, being an armchair philosopher". The idiom can be used with many different areas of knowledge/learning. For example, right now, you could say I am waxing linguistic.

2

dorukayhan

i just noticed that @Dennis is featured on meta se tour

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

huh. and I guess I'm a waxing learner? or is that wrong

dorukayhan

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@dorukayhan dead link

Anonymous

For example: My grandfather has a tendency to wax political, even when the conversation topic has nothing to do with politics. He's not invited to family gatherings anymore.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

9:37 PM

ohh okay

poor grandpa

dorukayhan

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ *accidentally types meta.stackexchange.tour instead of meta.stackexchange.com/tour*

Downgoat

@dorukayhan huh cool

Anonymous

Freshmen who are taking Intro to Philosophy and have just read their first Rand/Kant/Nietzsche essay have a tendency to wax philosophical.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@El'endiaStarman I just made an awesome bot for spacewa

r

it beats every bot but helios

by at least double

El'endia Starman

Impressive!

Downgoat

9:39 PM

too much tilt-shift? :P

El'endia Starman

And yeah, Helios is a really good bot.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Downgoat beautiful

El'endia Starman

@Downgoat Depends on the effect you want.

Anonymous

However, they are missing the requisite leather armchair, monocle, and glass of brandy to truly discuss philosophical ideals.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@El'endiaStarman but because of your scoring technique, it's better than helios

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

9:40 PM

ahaha

VTCAKAVSMoACE

What's the technical name for a member of a sequence?

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

on the scoreboard

El'endia Starman

@VTCAKAVSMoACE Element?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@VTCAKAVSMoACE item, entry?

Anonymous

@VTCAKAVSMoACE Element?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

9:40 PM

^, ^^^

Anonymous

Ninjo'd by the Starman

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@El'endiaStarman Yes, that one.

ty

El'endia Starman

I almost suggested "item" too, but saw Downgoat's message in time. :P

Downgoat

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ brb submitting to nat geo

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

:o did you take it??

Downgoat

9:41 PM

yea but i lightroom'd it quite a bit

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

still cool

El'endia Starman

@Downgoat I do like how your eye just gets drawn right to the focal point.

Downgoat

I got the JS module system down in cheddar. time to make a cheddar module system >_>

Anonymous

For example, if your sequence was action movie stars, and you had [Stallone, Seagel, Schwarzenegger, Van Damme, Willis], one might argue that the best actor is the Fifth Element in the list.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

but it isn't ordered, is it?

El'endia Starman

9:43 PM

@Mego *groan*

Downgoat

@El'endiaStarman that's what I was going for but, idk, i just can't seem to get the right amount of blurring in the right places.

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman Yay somebody appreciated that pun

Anonymous

It took way too long to set up, though - trying to figure out how to spell The Arnold's last name took a while

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

Hey, I wrote a jelly!

jelly.tryitonline.net/…

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Closest I could find was this: english.stackexchange.com/a/21674/8829 . I didn't find anything about using "wane" in the same way.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

9:45 PM

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan I'ᴍ ᴊᴇʟʟʏ

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan 5 is the cosmic number?

afaict all sequences end in 5

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ que?

Anonymous

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ It's inverse fibonacci

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

oh

LOL

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I think it's- ninja'd by Mego.

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

What did you mean though?

Anonymous

9:47 PM

Definitely Fibonacci inverse

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

lemme show

Anonymous

Besides, 4 is the cosmic number.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

ye

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

^^^^

It is fibo-inverse

It doesn't work though. It fails on 0.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@El'endiaStarman I still need to clean up the code, write a story, and do other stuff

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

9:48 PM

le cosmic number

Anonymous

Given any number, count how many characters appear in its spelled-out English form. Repeat until fixed point. You get 4.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

spoilers

probably outdated

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

CMC: Find the cosmic number.

Jelly, 1 byte: 4

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

MyFourLang, 0 bytes:

dorukayhan

do we have a challenge where the objective is to do nothing and return instantly?

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

9:50 PM

Brain-flak, 10 bytes: (()()()())

Anonymous

@dorukayhan No, and it should probably stay that way

Downgoat

@dorukayhan no because that's boring and it's an empty program in 99.99% of languages

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@dorukayhan no offense, but that would be boring and--dangit mego

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@dorukayhan Not as far as I know. Which is a good thing.

Anonymous

Empty program is too trivial

El'endia Starman

9:51 PM

I agree with all of the above. :P

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

Plus it's almost a universal polyglot.

El'endia Starman

Also, Minkolang, 1 byte: .

Downgoat

^^

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Infinite polyglot, 0 bytes:

it might be interesting for langs where the 0 bytes solution doesn't terminate

but stil

Anonymous

Depending on your interpretation of "do nothing", it'd either be 0 or 1 byte (⌂) in Actually, and 0 bytes in Seriously.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

9:52 PM

1 byte solutions in 2D

Anonymous

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Specifically toroidal 2D

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

Also, a lot of languages have no concept of "return".

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Mego yes

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan a lot of esolangs, or regular languages?

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

In V it would sorta be ñ, but that's poorly defined.

Anonymous

I'm fairly sure there's a 2D lang that doesn't wrap, and exits when the IP gets stuck on a wall/corner.

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

9:53 PM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Well, how many non-esolangs have no concept of functions?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan almost none.

which is why I asked

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

A couple, probably, but not very many. Or any I can think of.

dorukayhan

@everyonewhopingedme so, is there such a challenge where empty programs are forbidden?

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Produce the Rummy Sequence code-golfarray-manipulationmath Your task is to take an input n and output element n of the Rummy Sequence. Definition Each element of the Rummy Sequence is a boolean array. Ex.: [true, false]. The steps to producing a member of the Rummy Sequence are quite simple:...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@dorukayhan I think newer quine challenges are like that

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

9:54 PM

3 mins ago, by Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@dorukayhan Not as far as I know. Which is a good thing.

Would that be equivalent to "Shortest (non-empty) NOP"?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

he's just asking if there are challenges that forbid empty programs.

Downgoat

anyone here know how to emscripten? pls

Anonymous

@dorukayhan Every quine challenge.

Anonymous

Oh "such a challenge" I misread that

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

I wrote a 0-byte answer once.

1

A: Simple cat program

V, 0 bytes   Try it online! V's idea of "memory" is just a gigantic 2D array of characters. Before any program is ran, all input it loaded into this array (known as "The Buffer"). Then, at the end of any program, all text in the buffer is printed. In other words, the empty program is a cat p...

VTCAKAVSMoACE

9:58 PM

15

A: "99 Bottles of Beer"

Vitsy, 0 Bytes Seriously ain't got nothin' on me. (@Mego I'm so sorry. ;)) Try it online! (Just hit "Run")

El'endia Starman

Minkolang doesn't have a valid 0-byte program. :(

Anonymous

Actually's cat program would be 0 bytes if it weren't for the fact that the stack-based nature makes the input lines be output in reverse order

Anonymous

> one day, it'll be better than Seriously

Anonymous

Still waiting on that day :)

VTCAKAVSMoACE

ಠ_ಠ

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

9:59 PM

@VTCAKAVSMoACE But TBF, that's a "Hey, let's pick something interesting for a 0-byte program". Mine is a "This is just the way the language works".

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan What's the difference?

dorukayhan

@VTCAKAVSMoACE the latter case is more bydesign than the former

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Jolf's 0 byte is truth machine :P

Downgoat

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan im curious as to how dennis will outgolf this

3

Anonymous

@VTCAKAVSMoACE One is a side effect of the language design, the other is a deliberately-chosen outcome that really doesn't have much to do with the language design

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

10:00 PM

^

TY mego.

Anonymous

Welcome :)

dorukayhan

@Dennis ^^^^^

VTCAKAVSMoACE

> Jelly, -100 GB: This erases parts of the hard drive as it runs.

Downgoat

@VTCAKAVSMoACE ._.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Downgoat It's only logical.

El'endia Starman

10:04 PM

@flawr: Solved PE 188! :P

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

And it's posted :)

0

A: Fibonacci reversed!

Jelly, 14 bytes 5½×lØp 1H+ÇḞ»0 Try it online! This is my first ever Jelly answer! It's nearly twice as long as the other one, but it was fun to come up with. This uses the algorithm from the MATL answer. I'll post an explanation eventually.

mınxomaτ

Just a heads up: Windows 10 Build 14390.0 (latest) uses your location (and tells you it does), even if any and all location options and services are turned off.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Also, here's the YT video for the Megalovania (Minecraft Mix) thing.

@mınxomaτ /me erases everything and takes out the battery.

mınxomaτ

I like how it actually tells you that it uses your location, but there's nothing you can do about it.

Anonymous

@mınxomaτ Based on Microsoft's history, I'm not concerned. It probably thinks I'm in Mongolia, or on Mars.

mınxomaτ

10:09 PM

It would be hypocritically by me to complain about it, since the location services on my phone are always turned on.

Downgoat

1

A: Given two numbers, output their sum

Cheddar, 3 bytes (+) This is a cool feature of Cheddar called "functionized operators". Credit for this idea goes to @CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ. Here are more examples of functionized operators: (+)(1,2) // 3 (/)(6,2) // 3 (-)(5) // -5

:D :D :D Cheddar has a builtin to do it!

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@El'endiaStarman > I wrote my entire bot in the KotH textarea or the JS beautifier.

> I wrote my entire bot in the KotH textarea or the JS beautifier.

Anonymous

@Downgoat Congratulations on having a builtin for adding two numbers?

6

Downgoat

@Mego what other real language that you know of has it though?

mınxomaτ

Lisp

If your argument here is more than two sides.

Downgoat

10:12 PM

@mınxomaτ my point was not that many languages have a built-in to add two numbers

mınxomaτ

@Downgoat That statement is actually wrong.

Downgoat

rly?

mınxomaτ

Are you serious? "built-in to add two numbers"?!

Downgoat

well as a function

not an operator

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Downgoat that's not pythonic...

I posted my bot

Downgoat

10:14 PM

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC ?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Haskell needs (+) to be a standalone function to satisfy our rules. — xnor Jul 3 at 1:58

haskell cheddar polyglot

3

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Downgoat nvm

Downgoat

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ wait rly??

brb

5

A: Given two numbers, output their sum

Haskell, 3 bytes (+) The parentheses are here because it needs to be an prefix function. This is the same as taking a section of the + function, but no arguments are applied. It also works on a wide range of types, such as properly implemented Vectors, Matricies, Complex numbers, Floats, Doubl...

oh ;_;

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

haskell is a good lang

Downgoat

10:15 PM

\o/ that must mean cheddar is good lang too

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

btw I had no idea haskell allowed for that

@Downgoat oh heavens you said that to a new user

he is going to be so confused

Anonymous

@Downgoat Python: sum, int.__add__

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

sum doesn't count :P

Anonymous

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ No you're thinking of itertools.count

Downgoat

ok well thanks for raining on my parade :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

10:17 PM

@Mego no I'm not. I don't know what the latter does >_> doesn't sum work over a list tho? or does it have overload for multiple integer arguments

Anonymous

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I was making a pun :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

oh

hah

haha

facepalm

I'm not in pun mode

Downgoat

TIL dragons have a pun mode

Anonymous

And sum does count, even though it requires the operands to be in an iterable, because the challenge in question allows that

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

oh really? huh

Anonymous

10:19 PM

TIL people have other modes than "pun"

Anonymous

Pun is my most common mode. One might say it's my mode mode.

4

Downgoat

anyone know of some image processing node libraries?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Mego +1

El'endia Starman

@Mego <_<

I read the modes in the wrong order first.

Mᴀʀs Uʟᴛᴏʀ

@Downgoat yeah, this.pun=!0

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

10:25 PM

print this.pun => 1. this.pun /= 0 yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Doorknob

→ 20 messages moved to Cheddar

Downgoat

@Doorknob thanks

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^

Downgoat

strawpoll.me/10772188

Helka Homba

10:41 PM

Maptionashary

El'endia Starman

@HelkaHomba Doesn't include dict.

Helka Homba

Maptionadictashary

El'endia Starman

What about maptionashdictary?

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@HelkaHomba Hey, I've got some free time right now. You able to hop on the server right now? Give me the tour?

Helka Homba

@El'endiaStarman Sure. Mine is too close to 'hash addict'

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Well maybe for a little bit. I can give you some starting items

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

10:47 PM

Cool. I'll hop in on in like 5 mins.

New Main Posts

1

Q: Find numbers within the Copeland–Erdős constant

This challenge is about finding numbers in a certain "landscape". Background The Copeland–Erdős constant is the concatenation of "0." with the base 10 representations of the prime numbers in order. Its value is 0.23571113171923293137414... See also OEIS A033308. Copeland and Erdős proved th...

El'endia Starman

@flawr: Just solved PE 315 and got a new award!

> Easy Prey: Solve twenty-five of the fifty easiest problems

Helka Homba

@El'endiaStarman Join us in mc!

El'endia Starman

@HelkaHomba I shall!

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@El'endiaStarman I don't want to sound impatient, but are you working on adding my bot?

Hello @Liam

Liam

11:03 PM

Hey!

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

the weather's pretty nice today - just a couple F5 fire tornadoes

Downgoat

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC o_o

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

happens every week

@Downgoat ...and some asteroids and ICBMs too

Couldn't be a better day for a walk!

Downgoat

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC where do you live?? o_o_o

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Downgoat Russia

(not really tho)

@Downgoat wait - there's an F6 tornado too! ahh, what a rare and wonderful sight...

Downgoat

11:09 PM

oh you're joking

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Downgoat the lab down the road is also doing some nuclear weapons testing too.

@Downgoat of course, did you hear in the news about ICBM's being launched?

and multiple F5 tornados?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

F5 tornadoes refresh my page :(

Liam

Do you guys think a retrograde analysis chess challenge would be worthwhile?

Along the lines of this book

Åna

Hey :)

@Liam sounds difficult

Liam

Yeah I think it might be, but it would still be fun.

Åna

11:14 PM

Golf or what?

Liam

If I used bigger problems, it might even be worthwhile as a fastest code challenge, but then I might have to get a little bit away from "pure" retrograde in favor of any valid set of moves to get there (instead of there being a unique solution)

otherwise probably golf

Hold that thought while I run to the bookstore.

uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@Liam hope it's not physical running

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

11:39 PM

@VTCAKAVSMoACE 10/10

Transcript for