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00:01
Oh, that was what that "phantom" notification was
I probably would undelete to use the isomorphism one if I actually knew the math well enough to feel confident that the weird hacks are correct in principle
att
att
nice
Because I basically shoved two adjacency matrices into one matrix that isn't an actual adjacency matrix any more
Though conceptually, permuting the rows/columns obviously corresponds to relabeling the nodes, which I was thinking about doing directly somehow
att
att
00:11
I don't read jelly so idk what's happening there
Basically, turn the grids into directional adjacencies as a proxy for shape then see if one can be row-and-column-permuted into the other
att
att
00:49
not sure I follow the first half
Like, edges are colored by direction, so a weakly connected graph should uniquely identify a tile shape
...but none of this matters because I just beat it :D
01:14
Uhh, it seems NixOS' garbage collector is somehow messing with Firefox's caches.
Incredible
It's so simple in retrospect 😭
big shoutout to windows audio recorder for duplicating that file multiple times
 
5 hours later…
06:37
I'm wondering how to handle multiple inputs properly in a semi-golflang.
Easy way it to just input an array and have a few "unwrap 2", "unwrap 3" etc. buitins to turn arrays into N stack values. This allows me to know the stack size at all times and allows other optimizations
But it would cost a byte for every program that takes multiple parameters
Another option would be just to assume every program takes like 20 parameters then set them to null if you pass less. This may make some operations less efficient since they can behave differently on empty stack
Or I can just push them seperatley and don't allow any of the operators that require knowing the stack size at compile time at top level, they would need to be inside groups
att
att
06:56
"semi-"?
07:08
It has some esolang gimicks that I don't want to sacrifice even if makes the lang less golfy
I'm also not gonna so SBCS
07:25
@mousetail is argv only an option?
because then you at least know input size at run time
Other than that, you could consider implicit inputs
@rydwolf I click on it and I get 502 bad gateway
 
1 hour later…
09:38
@lyxal This is specifically about implicit inputs
Found an interesting question on meta
-16
Q: Let answerers keep their rep for deleted questions that they had invested time and effort in

Luke LIn the last month or so, an abnormally and extremely large number of my answers got deleted. There was no reason for deletion, it happened just because the question(s) with which my answer(s) were posted to was deleted for one reason or another. The "reasons" for the deletion of the questions ran...

10:30
@mousetail only the last option represents what's typically considered implicit
The question is if all the implicit input is combined or seperate
Popping from an empty stack pushes the next input
@mousetail separate
Combined (all in an array) defeats the whole point
The assume maximum amount idea could work, but the whole null thing could be unexpected
If inputs are all arrays, should they be zipped by default?
No, because what if I want to input two unzipped lists?
So you can make use of the implicit input when processing multiple values?
10:38
I would hope you'd have things that vectorise and a zip with modifier
Vectorization is going to work like in JQ
From experience, zipped inputs are rarely needed. And when you do need to perform an operation on zipped pairs, a zipwith function or modifier provides more control over the processing
Defaults should always be the thing that is shorter or more convenient in 99% of cases
The main idea is to more conveniently be able to test a program on multiple inputs rather than be useful for a single program
Where 99% is metaphorical
@mousetail I mean, if the goal isn't strictly golf, then of course, design around the goal.
But even then, I'd argue that there could be better ways of handling things like test suites than hindering single programs.
It's semi-golf, which is hard to get advice for because that's a nebulous concept.
Basically I want for the CLI to have a option to run the program on multiple inputs at once. Either that could be -- [test_1_param_1, test_1_param_2] [test_2_param_1, test_2_param_1] or transposed
10:59
@mousetail first option
That's what I'd recommend (and have implemented)
Plus it can easily be extended to include a third "expected value" field
Thanks
For an example implementation
11:48
Why closer isn't listed?
what site?
PPCG
shows for me
6
Q: Situations when recursion helps

l4m2Recursion is actually quite powerful, sometimes its doesn't look like that child problem of itself exist, but recursion is just helpful. One case per answer.

maybe question poster can't see the list
11:52
I should have other closed questions, I check thme
Confirmed but it's quite weird
And it says (List of close voters is only viewable by users with the close/reopen votes privilege) but I can view them in logoff state
I guess it's to prevent revenge downvoting
 
1 hour later…
13:20
CMC A sequence that starts at once, contains at least one zero, but takes the longest possible time before the first zero appears.
13:48
Is Wikipedia down?
seems okay to me
Thanks, it's up now. Whenever something does down I post it in this chatroom and it seems to immediately fix it
The unpaid pettiness interns work hard around here
the moment anyone says something, they immediately jump on proving you wrong
for no good reason other than spite, I imagine
Is allmyunfinishedsideprojects.mousetail.nl down for anyone else?
they're on break at the moment, did you not check the sign?
"back in unspecified number of minutes"
13:58
Is "the interns" down for anyone else right now?
14:35
@l4m2 I think that could be on-topic for PLDI.
@lyxal I'll think I'll have two variants of if, one which takes two full expressions and requires paranthesis, and one that just selects one of two stack values. I do wonder for the later what the best order of the arguments is? Condition on the top of the stack or the options on the top?
Options on top makes sense when they are constants but condition on top makes more sense when the condition needs to be computed based on the options
Whichever option you choose, you'll need some sort of stack manipulation, so condition on top is best imo
makes the most sense in terms of how I'd expect argument order
```python
n=1
while n!="0000000000000000000000000000000000000000":
n=SHA-1(n)
print(n)
```
my formatting :(
Only indenting every line works in chat
There should be a "fixed-font" button
it's only 4 lines anyway and you get the point
14:48
Imagine if function names could contain -
I get it though
It would probably take a very long time to reach 0 indeed
Wonder if this sequence is on OEIS
doesn't look like it is
this is also not guaranteed to eventually reach 0, as there could very well be a cycle
(and yes, you can trivially get longer by using a more powerful hashing algo, i just used the first one i thought of that i knew could output all zeroes)
Yea :( I wonder if we have ever found a string that hashes to 0, in any major hashing algorithm
the most likely candidate would be the bitcoin blockchain, given that it optimises for finding zeroes
14:57
python:

```
t = 1.57788e17
while t:
time.sleep(1)
print(t)
t -= 1
```
This will finish executing (roughly) when the sun explodes
which, depending on how you define "longest possible" is the longest possible time a program can run
why not time.sleep(t) while you're at it
because then you'll never see the output
3
duh
oh my bad you're right
no
I'm lyxal
i'm not right i'm lyxal yes we knoww
you're too predictable
14:59
no
I'm lyxal
^^
i wanted to say i could go on all day but actually my work day is almost over
it's like i'm paid to put up with you at this point
I'd like to meet the person paying you and shake them up until they start paying me instead :p
struggling to find a metaphor for "being paid to put up with yourself"
like, UBI or something?
my brain tells me there's something here
15:04
@Themoonisacheese I'd happily steal your payment. It's basically free money
@mousetail i took a look a the bitcoin difficulty graph and it's nowhere close to making a dent in even SHA-1
@lyxal would you do a good job though?
I care about nothing more than the joj
I'd do it all over again. I'd do it 15 times over again
100% unsatisfied
15:23
TL;DR the /events endpoint has a message_stars field
@TheEmptyStringPhotographer I don't think PLD care about shortening code or reducing design cost
16:21
I'm making a userscript that allows you to do polls in SE chat
how hyped are you all about it?
16:33
new layout for the New Vyxal 3 Web Interpreter just dropped
missing: inputs and a byte counter
Does anyone feel like they have a weight on them or something when they have something on their clipboard that they need to paste at some point?
16:58
The greatest argument against god is abcasofophiscofascocostoanalyziexplanosambrinficanowobiwogology.
"What's abcasofophiscofascocostoanalyziexplanosambrinficanowobiwogology?"
"You claim to be god, but you don't know what abcasofophiscofascocostoanalyziexplanosambrinficanowobiwogology means? YOU'RE NOT OMNIPOTENT!"
Wait.
That's omniscience
Damn it.
but if you're able to do anything, that means you can make yourself know something, meaning you could say it's that as well
But the thing is.
Well it's supposed to prove against being a god.
So it assumes the person is not even omnipotent in the first place.
Even if they said "yeah I know this!"
You could ask for their interpretation and then say it doesn't match the widespread usage of the concept.
You could even write on paper the definition before asking them.
There by destroying their omniscience beyond a doiht.
17:22
guys I may have found the coolest person
Someone at CMU who's just like, literally the sort of person who'd be a TNB regular
are you sure they're not
It'd be crazy if they were lol
But I think I'm in the process of finding a very good friend group here lol
good to hear!
@Ginger I don't know where to put the bytecount lol
this just looks ugly:
17:48
Wait.
Ginger is referencing ferself.
yeah chat lets you do that
also "ferself"?
You're a feline right?
please use the pronouns in my bio
I put them there for a reason...
17:50
Ferself, fer, fe.
Duh.
@Ginger Cats are female.
So it's mutually inclusive-exclusive.
please use the pronouns I specified in my bio; using other ones is rude and I'm asking you not to do it
Okay.
Does feshe or fshe (pronounced fuh she) work?
Also ᶠshe?
I don't think you're listening to me?
for the third time: the pronouns in my bio are the only ones I'm okay with anyone using
don't use others
No i do not
they suck at reading my abilities
sometimes people seem ... neurodivergent ... when they're chatting online...
18:05
Neurodivergent?
18:24
0
Q: Convert 8 Bit brainfuck to 1 bit Brainfuck / Boolfuck

12431234123412341234123Goal Input is a Brainfuck program for 8 bit cells, output it for 1 bit cells. Explanation We all know Brainfuck, normally it uses 8 bit cells. But there are implementations where a cell is just 1 bit, sometimes called Boolfuck. A Brainfuck program that is written for 8 bit cells most likely does ...

19:21
@mousetail Can't you just take some extremely slow-growing sequence and modulo it by some extremely large number?
Or, just like 1,2,3,4,5,... modulo Loader's number
:66230163
x = 1
while x != 0:
    print(x)
    x = x / 1.000001
@mousetail ^
Just ignore the line at the top I was trying to reply to you
And I ran out of time to edit
Wait just pretend that there’s an unindented line saying print(0) at the bottom
19:59
@TheEmptyStringPhotographer That miiiiiiiiiiiight be because we are
@rydwolf OOOOOH
Please keep us posted on how things go with them LMAO
I assume an actual TNB regular who’s also an undergrad at CMU would have long since mentioned it, but they could also not want to dox themselves, and be specifically planning to connect with you in person
Possibly by separately befriending you IRL before mentioning that they already know you online much later if at all
Honestly that kinda seems like the sort of shit I would pull LMAO
…minus the part where I’d have to actually introduce myself as a stranger instead of just being desperate like “HI YOU ALREADY KNOW ME PLEASE HELP”
But I would plan on it
And then actually just never talk to you at all instead
If you didn’t already know where I am I would probably have decided to play into pretending it’s me for the bit then gotten frustrated after like a week with how unfunny the bit actually turned out and been suspiciously silent about anything related to it for another few weeks before eventually coming clean in the middle of an unrelated conversation
@192927376337929292283737373773 thats only if u talk directly to god
@UnrelatedString suspiciously specific hypothetical situation
@Ginger muchas betteras
hooray!
20:35
🥳🥳🥳
We are short on non code-golf questions currently
Need to get my thinking cap on
@Ginger Keyboard where
@Ginger But yeah no this is just the kind of shit my brain does when uh
Basically all the time actually
@emanresuA it's 2024, we have autocomplete for that :p
congratulations on sending an already-deleted message :b
21:13
@UnrelatedString Just realized this is a big part of why I can get so hung up on this stuff—it’s almost like culture shock. Like I usually forget that flirting exists, but the idea that people around me are navigating interactions with hidden motives that everyone else tacitly understands just weirds me out because it makes it feel like I can’t actually understand people the way I convinced myself I did. So I panic and try to claw that understanding back
@Ginger Builtin lookup though?
…yeah the lookup is definitely a pretty big utility for the keyboard
Also like... how do you learn what the autocompletes are without looking it up
To this day I still often have to look up Jelly buttons that I clearly remember using tens of times, and I imagine with Vyxal’s overloads it’s even more like that
*builtins
@Ginger i sent it and immediately realized it was not fitting for that convo lel so i frantically deleted it
21:28
@emanresuA there's a searchable list of elements available with the book button on the toolbar
Ah okay
@UnrelatedString yeah vyxal has like 700 builtins it's slightly silly
and autocomplete also works as element search since it uses the literate mode keywords
@Ginger Ahh nice
21:55
@Themoonisacheese previous versions of windows didn't call it command prompt anyway
I’ve been choking on sand ever since the sand trap was closed
Be the on-topic conversation you want to see in the world :P
🐒🐵🙉🙈🙊🦍🦧🍌
Mr Oran Gutan, please head over to the primate classification room.
I finally got around to trying out github.com/nvbn/thefuck, and it is... inordinately slow
npm lint: error in 0.9s. npm run lint: success in 2.5s. fuck -y after npm lint: 14.5s
that's just the price you pay for getting it wrong the first time :p
22:10
Enabling experimental instant mode reduces it from 14.5s to 13.9s, which is not that much
att
att
@UnrelatedString I still occasionally lookup Array
And I still don't remember the exact specifics of vyxal's canvas builtin argument order
And I wrote the damn thing
Like look at this nonsense
22:30
@emanresuA "The code is self-documenting"
TBF there are docs, the conversion is just mildly cursed
And there's a few more overloads that aren't documented
22:52
@mousetail I was going to suggest MD5, but apparently there isn't a known zero-hash for it, to my surprise (I think I was mixing it up with the mersenne twister)
But one almost certainly exists
@att ...there is a lot there so I really don't blame you
Also nice message ID
oh TIL MD5 was designed by the same guy who's the R in RSA
Isn't that the dream, to be able to describe who you are by being like "oh I'm letter X in this acronym"
Lyxal's the L in Vyxal
22:59
I've actually been duping y'all all along, "RTO" stands for "Ryan Tosh Online"
I Knew it
The only place where you can Ryan Tosh anytime, anywhere
23:20
@emanresuA the idea is that there's that many literate mode keywords available that, like ginger said, the autocomplete is the search
att
att
@UnrelatedString it gets better when there's a lot of commentary under the details pane :)
and thanks it was definitely intentional
How meticulously planned
23:34
@rydwolf but I always thought it stood for "Rizz Tricks Ohio" :(
@emanresuA What does the vyxa- stand for?
Very Yes eXtremely Aaaaaaa?
23:49
Vacuum Your eXtra Attic, Lyxal
it's a self-reminder to go clean the attic I have that serves as an attic to my attic
(I keep forgetting)
Vyxal stands for Vyxal Yearns Xerically At Lyxal
Obviously I am more of an authority on this

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