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00:01
@Seggan Yes
Working on RIPR (the infinite-precision number library it'll use) off-and-on right now, should be finished within a few years
00:15
Good
i should also be finished in a few years
but I’m using kotlin, so nvm
00:26
@Seggan KOTLIN
00:37
you like kotlin that much?
i got you addicted to it, mission completed
I wish you'd done it earlier :b
Careful there, don't get too hooked on it or you won't be able to use Java ever again
too late
00:52
@user whats ur gh
01:03
@user hey you're one to talk. You went and got me hooked on scala and the same thing happened.
01:25
ok so
gaming.
yall remember back when I was figuring out Rabbit's module system and I said "you won't be able to just run arbitrary scripts"?
well, I lied q: (kinda)
Presenting, my newest creation: Schema Modules! (and the Rabbit Script Host)
uh oh
also, the magic values for the common golfing runtime is DEADC0DE
basically, schema modules are a way to import and run arbitrary Rabbit code at runtime... within limits
and I'll tell you more about them... tomorrow!
*jazzy theme music* so long, and I'll see you next episode!
01:46
@Seggan ysthakur
02:04
> 32 bits long – the word size of most 32-bit architecture computers.
most?
Me on my way to make a 32 bit architecture computer with a word size of 33 bits
But more seriously
0
Q: What is the smallest word size in 32bit architecture?

ZombiesLet's say I were to design a low level language, just for example. What is the actual smallest datatype for a variable I can have? Let's say for example the primitive boolean in java only needs 1 bit, what is the actual memory footprint (memory size) that it uses?

> It ultimately depends on the processor itself. 8, 16, and 32 bit word sizes are all common on 32 bit systems.
I see
I fed my wasm file to xxd and I found, near the end of it, the names of the days of the week and the months of the year in UTF-32
02:20
Huh
Sounds like you need to generate your wasm differently :p
It's probably for one of the c stdlib functions that formats dates
because I saw it in ASCII further up, so I assume the UTF-32 one is for the wchar_t variation
 
3 hours later…
04:58
i just typed pip install python O_O
05:57
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Dannyu NDosMy prefix is food, my suffix is rude My prefix is food. My suffix is rude. My infix comes in rounds. I keep you off the ground. What am I? This is the first "Riley riddle", created by Riley. Riddles of this sort has become a trend in the Puzzling SE. Let us do a code-golf challenge equivalent o...

 
2 hours later…
08:08
Pi day guys!
I have maths class at 1:59 lol
I hope someone bakes everyone here a pie
With slices of exactly one radian
08:57
@mousetail I only just learned how a radian is defined yesterday! I always just thought radians and degrees were two equally arbitrarily designed units of measure that we just had to tediously convert in math class.
Then you had terrible math education lol. Very common unfortunatly to need to learn stuff before learning it's purpose
But yeah, that doesn't work because a radian is the angle subtended an arc around a circle, the length of the radius.
(radius/radian: name checks out)
That's also why the derivative of sine is 1 at phi=0, since at that point the tangent is just a straight line up. That doesn't work for degrees
So that's why there are 2 pi radians in a circle-- precisely because there the circumference is 2 pi r. So if a radian is the angle subtended by one r, then the full circle is 2 pi of them.
Exactly
09:01
Which means we could've had exactly tau radians in a circle :(
We do have tau radians
Be a tau truthist!
haha, fair
It's confusing that the symbol for tau looks like half of pi yet it's value is 2 times pi
Also made me realize that the circumference is the derivative of the area, which I'm sure can't be a coincidence, but I don't really remember anything about that. It would've been so much clearer if we expressed area as 1/2 tau r^2!
That looks properly integral-y.
@mousetail Wait, that's really funny. I never thought about that.
@mousetail Wait, can you explain?
@mousetail Wait, you knew that
There's a reason they are called radians.
09:12
When you move up a straight line one unit your Y position obviously moves up one unit.
When you move up a curved line, as the curved line approaches straight your direction approaches straight up.
The sine of a angle is the distance you move along Y when moving around the circle.
The right edge of a circle approaches a straight vertical line as you zoom in on it.
Thus, we can conclude that the derivative of sin(x)=1 if x=0
and that sin(x) approximately equals x for small x
@Adám Yeah... I never knew that.
Evidently steradians are a thing, too.
Same concept
Just for area rather than legnth
@AviFS @Adám
@mousetail I know-- like radians^2. Damn, you know this stuff?!!
Have you ever done anything with steradians in school? Or like just from for-fun stuff?
We did cover this in geometry and again in pre-calculus
I was gone for 10 minutes. Catching up.
09:15
@AviFS I've never used them
Only theoretically researched them
I've used radians loads though
Huh, I'm pretty sure I avoided them at all costs/just thought of them as trivial pi/180° conversion, without actually understanding the inherent meaning.
1 sr ≈ 3282.8(°)²
I wonder if it is permitted to put that ² even higher up and avoid the paren…
@mousetail Whelp. So are degrees just the Fahrenheit of angular measures? Why do we still use them in mathematical lingo like "90 degree angle" and "sum of the angles in a triangle is 180 degrees" and "alternate interior angles...".
Use 3282.8°° maybe?
I tutor some middle school math students, and degrees are most definitely introduced and used a lot in their homework, long before radians make an appearance.
09:19
@AviFS Degrees are convenient, since for humans it's much easier to tell what is 45 degrees vs what is 0.24522 radians. I think they have their place, unlike Farenheit
radians are mostly nice in more advanced trigonometry and calculus, when you are actually using the identities that require them
@mousetail Not floats of course, but fractions maybe?
@mousetail BUT WHY DID WE NEED THEM THOUGH
I have zero recollection of them ever improving of my life.
When doing calculus or trignometry
Not for navigating of building stuff physical objects
@Alan Eliasen of Frink (lang) mentioned something to do with the Taylor series of trigonometric functions being nice with radians
@mousetail Why trig, though?
Because there are a lot of trignometric identities that only work in radians
I'm not fresh enough on series and expansions to challenge the calc claim, and I'll believe it. But why did we do the unit circle with radians, instead of degrees?
How can anything only work in radians? Both are units of angular measure.
Imma look it up.
09:23
Radian is not a unit
... dimensionless unit?
No it's literally not a unit
But, it is though... dimensionless. (?)
Sine and cosine etc. are all defined in terms of the radius between the circumference and the radius. Fundamentally that's how they work. There is no unit involved
Are degrees not a unit?
09:25
Degrees is a unit
radians are also a unit
they just happen to be dimensionless
Technically even percentage is a unit defined as 1/100.
and degrees are also dimensionless
No, dimensionless units are a bit different
@mousetail Well not according to Frink's units file, or Wikipedia.
09:26
For example coefficient of friction is dimensionless but still has a very specific meaning. It requires calculation form and back to actually use

Radians is just raw numbers with 0 transformation. It's already the most "natural" form everything expects
that doesn't mean they're not a unit
So, I guess, in some sense you're saying (even if it is a unit) that it's the most natural and "raw" unit we could possibly define?
degrees couldn't be a unit if radians weren't a unit because degrees are just a multiple of radians
It's like a void unit. A unit that doesn't do any uniting
Ie defined to be 1
09:27
yeah
radians are a unit in the same way the number 1 is a unit
I mean, due to dimensional analysis, as @UnrelatedString was saying, if degrees are a unit, then radians also have to be a unit of the same type.
No, a constant value can be a unit even if it reduces to a unitless quantity
See moles for example
But I'm still really interested in what you're saying, because it sounds like you're saying that it's the most "mathematically pure" unit we could have (in that it equals 1).
@mousetail Funny you should say that... cuz moles are also units.
See radian and mole
But I honestly don't feel like it undoes anything that you're saying!
I believe plank units are fundamental, equal to 1 and dimentionless. Every other unit is just a constant factor of plank units
The existence of a conversion factor other than 1 makes something a unit
09:31
@mousetail This is where my sophistication ends, but I'm sure I'd greatly appreciate that statement if I could understand it.
@mousetail That, however, is not true. A unit with a conversion factor of 1 is still very much a unit.
@AviFS See above.
Another way to look at it is to say that kg have a conversion factor of 1 in SI. As do meters/seconds/amperes/candelas, etc. But they are still units.
We think of things like speed and mass and energy as different things, but relativity and quantum theory tells us they are all really the same, and can be converted into eachother. They are all fundamentally different types of the same thing, and there is a smallest possible quantity of that. Which is the plank units. There is just one of them really
@AviFS I disagree but that's just a question of different definitions for the word "unit" and impossible to argue about
And further, if we defined different base units, eg CGS instead of MKS, we'd have different "non-units" by your definition.
@mousetail In common understanding of "units" and dimension analysis, there are multiple dimensions of base units-- seven according to the current SI. You certainly have at least MKS/CGS.
@AviFS No, those wouldn't work as base units since they are subdividable. I beleive there is one fundamental unit defined by physics. Not just by opinion
i don't think being divisible is a good criterion to bring in
being "fundamental" to a model has absolutely nothing to do with that :P
It might not be plank units, we might find a even more fundamental unit system. The concern here is not what that unit system is just that there exists one, thus all "units" are just multiples of this single universal unit
Thus are just numbers
09:37
That sounds really interesting, but it's not what is conventionally understood to be meant by units. If you say "base units," a linear basis of eg 7 SI units, is understood, not one super-unit.
i still don't think this disqualifies radians or planck units from being units
^
Those 7 SI units are all just constant multiples of some super unit
And I'd still be surprised to unearth any notion of unit, which disqualified multiples of 1 as being units.
there's a big difference between "the math works way more elegantly if you use these units" and "these are literally not units"
In any system, a base unit is still a unit. I should hope. And a base unit will have a multiple of 1.
09:38
Any number othen than 1 can be a unit, a unit is just a constant multiple
@mousetail Btw, if there's only one unit, that ever so slightly takes away all the usefulness of any notion of a unit, haha
No, that makes units actually useful. It's the foundation that actually allows you do dimentionaal analysis
Otherwise there would be no way to prove that 1M/1M = 1
That only works if you assume M is just a number
Also, just out of curiosity now, how do you encode 7 (or more, or less) dimensions of unitness into one number? Is this like a Godel numbering, haha
you also have to consider that not everything has to have some baked-in notion of a fundamental un-unit
09:40
No there are no dimentions
classical physics, for example
@mousetail Wait, what? So there's two units? Unit-ness, and constant-ness?
What the fundamental unit is doesn't matter
I thought you just meant everything is a constant.
just because it's not as good a description of reality doesn't mean it can simply be ignored
09:41
The math works out exactly the same no matter what you choose as the fundamental unit
because it's still a theoretical system that exists
Every unit is a constant, unknowable, quantity
a pure dimentionless number
@mousetail I'm just curious how this doesn't correspond to a lossy operation, unless each constant multiple is like a prime.
Wait.
All this came from us agreeing that degrees are a unit, but then you saying radians are not.
So, let's go back to whatever paradigm we were in when you were on board with percentage and degrees being units.
If it's loss there is no way to prove it without knowing the quantity, so it doesn't matter. You can prove the exact same theorums
@AviFS i think when you go at it like that there isn't really "information" in the units
09:43
@UnrelatedString Huh.
there's no encoding, just a correspondence
@mousetail Can we step back for a sec to this radius stuff?
I'd really love to understand this. It doesn't seem familiar at all.
radians is a fundamental unit, so every other angle unit is a constant multiple of radians
So radians is not a unit, but degrees is
I still find it frustrating that somehow base units aren't units to you, but I'm curious about the bit where "sine and cosine ... [are] defined in terms of the ratio (?) between the circumference and the radius."
Base units are void units, they are not needed
You might as well not use them
1 = 1 radian, so you might as well leave out the word "radian"
This is not true for a mole
09:54
I disagree, but I'm still curious about the mathematical purity of the radian, and how I'm told it falls out of eg trigonometry.
@AncientSwordRage o/
It's because of eulers identity: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
complex numbers are inherently tied to trignometry but only if you measure in radians
@mousetail I guess the radian in this context can just be thought of as the ratio between the circumference and the radius, as you mentioned?
Yea, but since we only really consider unit circles it's just the circomference
So presumably it doesn't need a name. You could just write the same formula ending with (c/r), even if both were measured in degrees.
Yep, but you wouldn't normally measure the radius in degrees
10:00
@mousetail Oh, sh**
Oh, right, no, good point. They'd both be measure in a unit of distance, not angular measure.
So d/d=1=dimensionless angular measure
@mousetail I know, I know, haha
You could measure the radius in degrees if you like
I literally just did the exact thing, hahaha
NOOOO I LOST EVERYTHING I WROTE
CURSE YOU SE CHATTTTTT
10:10
REWRITE:
I’m starting to think of radians as the ratio between circumference and radian— a useful concept in some mathematics. And of degrees as the “percent” measure. That is, a highly divisible convenience number of which we can take fractions. So that eg 1/4 circle becomes 90°, and 1/6 circle becomes 60°.
Agreed
Esp. since we (humans) tend to be better at thinking about, and comparing, whole numbers than fractions.
So that, eg an 80% off sale is better than a 75% off sale, and a 20° angle is smaller than a 30° angle. (The comparison is easier to understand for most than 4/5 vs 3/4 or 1/12 vs 1/18.)
@mousetail Well that was all new to me, so thanks!
@UnrelatedString @ATaco @Adám thanks!
np
@AviFS yeah that's basically it
@UnrelatedString :))
Disclaimer: Of course, it doesn't really "work" to backwards-justify contemporary mathematical conventions that have evolved over centuries, as though they were designed with intent. Just as that's foolish to do for any other natural process (or complex system) that has evolved over the ages.
But it's certainly a useful exercise to better understand their respective benefits & drawbacks, and why those two systems might have, so far, stood until the present day. Or, at minimum, what their use cases would be for someone working today.
Random late-night thought: What's the 1d analogue of angular measure?
(Is it the same as distance?)
Oh wait, I guess it's just a constant of 1 at all points.
Reasoning: 'Cuz if in 3-space, steradians are d^2/d^2 = 1; in 2-space, radians are d^1/d^1 = 1; then in 1-space, the analogue must be d^0/d^0=1.
10:27
A sphere is 3D and any direction from its centre to a point on it needs 2 parameters. A circle is 2D and any direction from its centre to a point on it needs 1 parameter. A line is 1D and any direction from its centre to a point on it needs 0 parameters.
ninja'd.
Rotation fundamentally only makes sense on a plane
Although you could then argue that the direction is binary, i.e. the sign.
That's why you have 1 axis in 2d, 3 in 3d, and 6 in 4d
6 axes in 4D space‽
Which I'd intuitively interpret as the angle into the nonexistent dimension, which is always 1.
10:28
XY, XZ, XW, YZ, YW, ZW
angles, not axes
I'm not sure if that actually makes sense, but I'm sure if I change that to "the trivial angle," and add a few more 'trivial's in there, it'd sound legit.
Yea, axes is really the wrong word which only makes sense in 3d. In literally any other number of dimensions you rotate inside a plane
even in 2d you rotate inside a plane
@Adám Woah, that's really cool. I love that visual, and that intuition. Gotta admit, it's really taking me a sec here to picture 3-space from 2 parameters. It's like a spherical Etch-a-Sketch!
I'm pretty sure they have like those balls, right, that have two axes of rotation?-- A globe. Maybe I'm thinking of a globe, lolol
@mousetail Rotationally, you have just have n-1 axes of rotation in n-space, right?
@AviFS Right, you need longitude and latitude, whereas on a flat map (picture squeezing the globe down to a plane), you just need a compass heading. On a line (picture squeezing the plane down to a line), you just need a ←→ directional indicator to pinpoint one of the two "surface" points.
10:35
@Adám Ooh, interesting, could that be a thing?
Yes, as per ^^
@Adám But I mean, like, could we define a 0-radian?
And what would it even look like to have a unit that could only have a magnitude?
@AviFS Nope
Ie, only be multiplied by 1 and -1.
It's n!/2!/(n-2)!
In 2d, there are 3 rotation axes, in 3d there are 3, in 4d there are 6
10:38
Usually, units can be multiplied by any scalar in the space (reals?). All other units I'm aware of, at least.
new tau symbol :P
2
@zoomlogo perfect
i guess in our timeline that's gotta be 1/2pi = 1/4 tau
@mousetail Wait, you're talking about how many planes.
Planes = Things you can rotate around
Like I said you can't really rotate around a axis in 3d or more
just planes
In 4-space, if you had a hypersphere, any point on its circumference could be specified by 3 numbers, as @Adám was saying.
Yes, but a point is not a rotation. In 3d it's the same. Even i you are pointing at the same place you could rotate your hand around your wrist and create a different angle
10:45
Aside: I couldn't quickly find the generalized version. Evidently, I'm told perimeter/circumference are for 2d and surface area is 3d. What about n-d?!
hypervolume I think
volume is the other one, though
Hyperperimiter? /s

Probably hypercircomference but IDK for sure
hypervolume>volume>area=pi r^2, we want 2 pi r=circumference<surface area<?
@mousetail i tried some hyper prefixes that came to mind on google to no avail, haha
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-sphere#Volume_and_surface_area Seems to still just be called surface area regardless of dimention
10:50
according to chatgpt it's surface area
ninja'd
where do you see that there, though?
wait, another late-night thought:
The forumula for the surface area of a n-sphere
can you have surface volume?
@mousetail ooh, thank you
@mousetail they also say volume of an n-ball, though. "hypervolume" doesn't come up once on that page
whelp. it's 4am now; i've been doing so much better than this
alright, i'm off! o/
I'm trying to fix a syntax error among pages of this
It's just some legacy HTML
10:57
Oh... ouch.
The guy who wrote this wasn't smart enough for whitespace
@mousetail hahahaah
@mousetail Remove all instances of &nbsp; and see what's left.
11:38
This thing is generated by a internal legacy templateing engine
12:21
alright, so
schema modules!
as I said earlier, they're a system for loading arbitrary Rabbit code at runtime
basically, you use a schema block to create a schema, and then load modules that comply with it
suppose I had this schema:
schema TestSchema:
    function foo(int n) -> int
I could then use that schema to load a schema module containing a function foo with that signature
the same system also works for structs, constants, and traits
schema modules have a few restrictions:
first, only the functions specified by the schema will be visible to anything loading the module
second, the module can't import anything that isn't available to the calling module
that's it I think
the Rabbit Script Host is a tool that can load and run Rabbit schema modules, which in this case can be arbitrary files (although these scripts can only access the standard library)
anyway time for me to add variable assignment!
13:27
aw nuts I've gotten myself trapped here again
I tried switching tabs but found myself stuck in the same place
14:11
hello!
do we have gpt-4 yet?
Unless you built it
not me..but I think this coming week?
Mildly scary
14:15
It is?
> next week
oof
the most scary thing is the vast amount of power that is used to train and use these models
that alone might destroy the planet because the AI gets round to it
"OpenAI will release GPT-4 next week and the generative AI program will allow users to turn text into video, according to Microsoft Germany Chief Technical Officer Andreas Braun."
and so on
text into video.
ah well
were you hoping for something else?
nah, this is fricking awesome.
curious what it will be like
14:38
@Adám so a hypersphere needs only 3 parameters? cool
I guess. Tangentially, can a 4D hypersphere roll down an inclined 3D block?
the 3D block needs to be embedded in 4D right?
...wouldn't it tend to fall of the side?
Like trying to roll a ball down a string
can roll a ball down a strong piece of paper
@mousetail No, only if you try to make it roll down a 2D plane.
@Simd Yes.
14:41
but the piece of paper needs to be embedded in 3D space for this to make sense
Sure.
@Adám "rolling down a 3d block" is borking my brain
@Adám True, if you place it on the "flat side"
@Simd and inclined along the 4th dimension
@Seggan right
14:41
How does gravity even work in 4d
Downwards.
@Adám :)
@Adám Thanks, that clears everything up
"It turns out that one type of gluon chain behaves in the four-dimensional spacetime as the graviton, the fundamental quantum particle of gravity. In this description, gravity in four dimensions is an emergent phenomenon arising from particle interactions in a gravityless, three-dimensional world."
just to be unhelpful :)
@Adám makes sense. if gravity pulled in the x direction, adding a z wouldnt change anything as far as the flatlanders are concerned
14:42
Exactly.
Orbits would be impossible though, since everything would decay according to inverse cube
I love flat earth people
@Simd im talking about this
Hm, two appropriately spaced sticks or tight strings are enough guidance for a ball to roll down. I assume that two appropriately spaced planes are enough to control a 4D sphere's roll…
14:45
"In the Flat Earth model, 'gravity', rather than being a force, is the upward acceleration of the Earth. The Earth always accelerates upward at 1g, which is equivalent to the gravitational acceleration in the Round Earth model. Like the force of gravity, the Earth's acceleration causes several commonly observed phenomena in our daily lives."
Technically true due to relativity
exactly!
Relativity: Where you can continuously accelerate but not move
i love how we can easily extend our concepts from 2d to 3d, but we cant comprehend a 4th dimension
> Much of the experimental evidence for a Flat Earth is provided by Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham, a 19th century lecturer
thats a problem. if you cant get much evidence today, then its not science, as its not reproducible
I suppose an appropriate flat Earth model is theoretically impossible to refute, although you do get an interesting singularity (plurality?) at the south pole.
14:48
@Adám The wiki raises all the main questions
Can't you refute it simply by crossing antarctica?
@mousetail you mean crossing the ice wall??
Yea, which doesn't exist so is easy to cross
@mousetail is it easy? I mean how many people do you know personally who have done it?
14:49
The ice wall is easy to cross
0
Q: How to efficiently count all powers of 2 in a given set of numbers in vb.net?

aludebeEvery integer can be expressed in powers of 2. You know this as the binary system Assume you are given a set of k numbers >0 <2^n. You want to decide for this set whether every integer power of 2 up to 2^(n-1) occurs at least m times One example: n = 7 (2^n = 128, ) k = 5 set = {100, 91, 88, 63,...

antarctica is big and cold so a lot harder
"The figure of 24,900 miles is the diameter of the known world; the area which the light from the sun affects. Along the edge of our local area exists a massive 150 foot Ice Wall. The 150 foot Ice Wall is on the coast of Antarctica. It is widely known and widely studied. The Ice Wall is a massive wall of ice that surrounds Antarctica. The shelf of ice is several hundred meters thick. This nearly vertical ice front to the open sea is more than 50 meters high above the water's surface.

The Ice Wall was discovered by Sir James Clark Ross, a polar explorer who was among the first to venture to
> It is widely known and widely studied
never heard of it
But quite a lot of people have crossed, and many more been at the pole.
14:51
^
no need to be gullible :)
I want to drop of 10 flat earthers regularly spaces around the perimeter of antarctica, with snowmobiles and other proper equipment, and thell them all to go south
Though, unless you cross the exact pole, you could explain it as stretching of space.
There is literally a air strip a few meters from the pole
14:52
50 meters? Surely modern tech can fly over that.
Seems it would be a attraction to rock climbers
I think you should all spend time studying that awesome website
if only MAGA americans had something similar
I wonder how they do CDN and load balancing. Extra servers in the southern hemisphere since they think those areas are further appart?
@mousetail that is a great question. Do they have somewhere you can pose questions?
happy pi day! not sure how I missed that :p
14:56
@Ginger and to you
@mousetail i saw someone refute it based on airline distances
basically, for some travel routes the airplanes wouldnt have enough fuel
I believe they have some weird theory about wind speeds for that. Not sure how they explain that planes travel in both directions though
@Seggan you need to post on the Q&A forum
@Ginger I completely missed Pi Time.

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