The Nineteenth Byte - 2023-01-29

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12:21 AM

@DLosc Since you're always going to have a significant number of false positives, perhaps you could make it so hovering on censored stuff reveals it, in case something useful is being censored and you need to see what it is

Oh nvm you already have that

I just didn't hover for long enough

I forget HTML has a bunch of handy features packed in sometimes

Or as I like to put it:
If you think you need a backend, you probably just need a frontend framework.
If you think you need a framework, you probably just need vanilla JS.
If you think you need JS, you probably just need vanilla CSS.
If you think you need CSS, you probably just need HTML.
If you think you need HTML, you probably just need plain text.

6

12:45 AM

you don't even need plain text

(only works consistently in firefox)

not mine obviously

OldSandboxPosts

1:00 AM

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Sandbox notes, It's a dog! code-golf ascii-art decision-problem

> Sandbox notes

Wake up babe, new generic sandbox title dropped

@lyxal nice

CMQ: Say I have a list of 2-item tuples. Is lst.sort(x => x[0]) (letting it order implicitly by second key if x[0]s are the same) equivalent to lst.sort(x, y => x[0] < y[0] || (x[0] == y[0] && x[1] < y[1]))?

1:30 AM

@Adám well key word is probably

Indeed. Sometimes, you do need some of those things, except JS frameworks.

2:15 AM

@DLosc yay

@DLosc Where are you guys seeing enough bad language on SE to warrant a userscript?

2:34 AM

@lyxal @pxeger Do you mind explaining this edit you approved? @peak isn't here to ask. I'm not sure I get it, or that it fits my original intent.

codegolf.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/67038

By the way, I just hit 2000 rep on CGCC! Privileges unlocked. Although, I'm pretty sure I had access to these privileges a year or two ago for a short bit. I don't remember what happened that I ended up losing it, haha

Unrelated String

rep thresholds went up when we left beta

@UnrelatedString Oh, is that what happened?!

Got it. Thank you.

It was like 1500 before, or something?

Unrelated String

i remember it took me a while to be able to see deleted stuff again :P

Hahahaha, yeah I haven't been able to see these review queues in years.

@AviFS isn't it just minor syntax changes + a clarifying intermediate step for golfing?

you can always rollback if you don't like it

2:41 AM

@lyxal I don't think they're minor. But I don't remember jq anymore, lmao

@AviFS some people (like me) just dont like it

There were two bytes added to the ungolfed version, and I don't really get what the intermediate one is adding, or why it's called "golfed." But I also know I'm totally missing something since they named the edit "apples to apples."

I'm guessing my ungolfed one ouputs a list, and my golfed one outputs a stream, and so that's what they meant by making it "apples to apples."

I was writing more speculation, but I'm kinda blabbering. As of right now, I don't believe the change is useful, so I don't want to approve it without @peak, or someone who's confident on what they meant, explaining it. But I also am not confident enough to want to hammer-ban reject it.

3:12 AM

@AviFS DLosc said it was partly because of brainfuck

@user Ah, is that censored?

In the userscript, I mean.

Yes

Interesting

@user @RydwolfPrograms So can you not see this either?

4 hours ago, by DLosc

@Adám Given that this is something I use at work so my coworkers don't do a double-take if they see me scrolling past a BF answer, I don't mind it censoring that one :P

@AviFS They can see it, it just looks like "brainf***", and you have to hover over it to see the thing that was censored

@DLosc They'll probably be pretty suspicious if they see four asterisks too, haha

@user Oh, the hovering over is a nice touch. Thanks for explaining.

3:15 AM

DLosc should put on an extremely graphic screensaver while they go to lunch to assert dominance

Wait, you still need a pfp!

@user My mind went straight to the gutter...

I momentarily forgot there were other kinds of graphic, lol

That was the right interpretation :P

@AviFS Me too lol

@user lololol

Unrelated String

lol

This just gave me a reallyyyyy bad idea for a graphical esolang...

We better stop before we attract DLosc's coworkers :p

Wait, no. Hold up. That could be really interesting. An esolang that takes as input, and output, color swatches.

And the primitives correspond to various mixing actions of the input colors.

I wonder if you could do anything with that. You'd have to explain what the in/out colors correspond to for any given challenge, but it wouldn't be the first esolang like that, by any stretch.

3:24 AM

That'd make challenges involving drawing stuff really interesting

Or fun, at least

@AviFS Wait, did you mean me? I've grown fond of this default pfp

And of course you could just reason about the state by using hex codes, without ever needing images. But the idea of it corresponding to color swatches, and the primitives thematically being about color mixing and stuff would be kinda cool.

related graphical style esolang

@user I was thinking it would just output color swatches, too... Oh wait! I get it. WOAHHHHH. I genuinely didn't even think about that. At all.

I was just thinking about colors being a convoluted representation of numbers, which you'd kinda have to decode/encode to be meaningful for any given problem.

But you're totally right. Each swatch could, additionally, be associated with a 3-tuple, without losing the mathematical purity. So, if you wanted, you could use that to interpret the output as a 2d, or even 3d, image. (By interpreting the output color swatches as pixels with coordinates.)

So I guess each "unit" in the language would be like a 256^6 bit number: a hexcode equipped with a 3d coordinate.

@user Oh... yeah, I did, haha

@lyxal Interesting, that's like way different though, right?

I just meant the program would be a stateless function from a list of color swatches to a list of color swatches.

So like an input of a blue and a red color would output a purple color if the program was just a primitive that mixed the colors equally.

2 hours later…

5:43 AM

@AviFS Mostly in chat, and also BF answers, like user said.

@AviFS I doubt Rydwolf uses the userscript, he's just the one who made it for me

@DLosc Ah, okay. That's nice!

5 hours later…

10:25 AM

@AviFS I approved it because I thought it made it more explicit what the tip was achieving. But I don't know jq. If you think it was better before just revert it

3 hours later…

1:23 PM

@AviFS it is. I just linked it because it's similar in that colours are somewhat significant

3 hours later…

Rydwolf Programs

4:32 PM

@DLosc Aw, I thought my regex did a pretty good job. I even ran it against a whole english dictionary to check for false positives ("mishitting" was the only one). Guess I need a bigger dictionary :p

@DLosc Mostly since it would create too many false positives, and I couldn't imagine too many situations on SE where its meaning as an insult/anatomical reference would come up

@lyxal What on earth is that supposed to do

Either one

Wait is this JS or not

I thought it was JS but now that I've noticed "tuples" I'm starting to think I've been epically trolled

@AviFS Worth noting I don't use the userscript, I just made it 'cause I was bored

@RydwolfPrograms The best programs are made by bored people

see: Linux

Rydwolf Programs

@AviFS Not hex codes, too little data

Only being able to store 24 bits of state per color would be pretty limiting, especially since the way you operate on data is mostly averaging, which would be lossy in a way you probably don't want

Rydwolf Programs

5:15 PM

TIL "ping" stands for "packet inter-network groper"...ew

@RydwolfPrograms backronym

Rydwolf Programs

Oh, really?

@RydwolfPrograms yes:

> I'm the author of ping for UNIX.
> From my point of view PING is not an acronym standing for Packet InterNet Grouper, it's a sonar analogy.

6:14 PM

duck.ac They claim they disable interrupt(but timeout) to test runtime of one code, does it lead to stability?

and no syscall, everything user need is in user RAM

6:50 PM

@RydwolfPrograms Why do you say that? Also, I ended up with each color actually being a hexcode, plus a 3-tuple, which could optionally be used and interpreted as a coordinate associated with the color (pixel) to display an image.

If we restrict the coordinates to being 0-256, that gives us 48 bits. Is that better? I can't say since I don't know why 24 isn't enough!

@RydwolfPrograms @Adám Wait, groper or grouper. I'm getting conflicting messages :p

7:20 PM

0

Q: Sorting Boxes Challenge: An Arduino Based Line Follower Task

Suppose there is an Arduino PID algorithm-based line follower. Which runs on a white line on a black surface. The robot has an arm that can detect if there is a box - the used sensor is an ultrasonic sensor detect the color of the box - the used sensor is an IR sensor because we need to identif...

code-golf code-challenge sorting optimization

Rydwolf Programs

7:32 PM

@AviFS Ooh interesting

1 hour later…

Rydwolf Programs

8:42 PM

@l4m2 I definitely am not the slightest bit qualified to answer this but I'd expect it'd still be a bit nondeterministic due to caching, turbo boost, etc.

@Adám "If you think you need a backend, you probably just need a frontend framework." ???

The rest I sorta get

But a frontend framework does something totally different from a backend

Not necessarily. Take aplcart.info as an example. Many would immediately jump to having a backend searching a database, but I found it performant enough to serve the entire database and do the search on the client side using datatables.js.

Rydwolf Programs

No framework's gonna save you from needing a database or a websocket or similar

@Adám That's kinda a niche situation tho

And also it's clearly going upward in complexity/overhead (HTML, then CSS, then JS, then a framework), but a back-end definitely comes before a framework most of the time

True. Maybe I should have used "might only" instead for that one.

Yeah, it isn't a strict progression, and the whole thing is a bit tongue-in-cheek.

9:36 PM

@RydwolfPrograms it's hypothetical syntax

Rydwolf Programs

I don't get how your hypothetical .sort works

It takes a comparator function which can be monadic or dyadic (like python)

If it's monadic, it sorts by the value you tell it to, and then sorts by the rest of the list for items that are tied

Rydwolf Programs

The dyadic one returns a bool in Python?

In JS you return a signed value, which makes more sense

Well I more asking this: if a sort function can sort by a certain attribute you tell it and then sort ties by lexographical ordering of remaining values, is that logically equivalent to sorting by a[0] < b[0] || a[0] == b[0] & & second items precede

Like if a language can sort [("def", 5), ("abc", 2), ("abc", 1)] into [("abc", 1), ("abc", 2), ("def", 5)] with just lst.sort(x => x[0]), is the same result always logically the same if I did lst.sort(x, y => x[0] == y[0] && x[1] < y[1] || x[0] < y[0])

I wouldn't expect any language to have lst.sort(x => x[0]) somehow fall back to sorting by the second element of the tuples

I would expect [("def", 5), ("abc", 2), ("abc", 1)].sort(x => x[0]) to produce [("abc", 2), ("abc", 1), ("def", 5)]

(assuming it's a stable sorting algorithm - which most languages' are)

Rydwolf Programs

9:48 PM

^^^

That would be really weird

I coulda sworn that happened in python

New Mandela effect just dropped

Rydwolf Programs

It would mean that if you did .sort(x => -x[0]) that it would sort descending, and sort diuplicates ascending

Unless it could peek into the function to see what it actually sorted by

10:25 PM

@pxeger The notion of stability in a sorting algorithm was a cool rabbit hole, thank you. I guess you could say a stable sort is a closure operator.

You should still be able to do something like what @lyxal was saying then, with something like: iter([...]).sort((i,x), (j,y) => x[0] == y[0] && i<j || x[0] < y[0])

I'm not sure that works as is, but I think you get the gist.

The context of this is that I'm using a language without a built-in "sort by" function meaning that you have to use your own, and one I found takes a dyadic comparator.

10:43 PM

Useful for testing TI-Basic answers?

11:18 PM

@RydwolfPrograms duck.ac/blog/113 Tested and results in huge error. Contact website author.

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