The Nineteenth Byte

Number Basher

12:07 AM

and... lyal is dead

Steffan, do you want to start it?

If nobody wants to start it I can give a quick tutorial on SunSip...

Steffan

CoMC: Deep-flatten a list.

I did start it

Number Basher

for tops, where are the tuts / guides for coconut

befoe you even start a cmc

*comc

@Steffan i meant, actually start it

anyone from the university of pennsylvania to tell me where the fuck i can look up my "recitation number"?

Steffan

I did start it

22 mins ago, by Steffan

Welcome to the twenty-fifth Learn You A Lang for Great Good! Today, we'll be learning Coconut. During the event, feel free to post CMCs to practice Coconut (CoMCs), ask questions about the language, and so on.

Number Basher

but there is no activity after that related to coconut

except perhaps

> Clearly, the CMCs should be called CoCoMos :P

emanresu A

should it be coconut then?

Number Basher

12:20 AM

shrug

hmm, just found a math question on our homework titled,

>
3. [8 pts] Blind Taste Test Gone Wrong??? (Not Clickbait)

emanresu A

It didn't really work last time and no one could teach it

Number Basher

true

and i, of all people, started it, making it worst

Steffan

if we switch, we're tied between prolog, labyrinth, and F#

Number Basher

but if there's noone capable of teaching it, I can give a quick SunSip tutorial

actually, does anyone want to teach any of the following:

coconut, prolog, labyrinth, and F#

if there is anyone, do it in 5 minutes, else I am giving a quick tutorial on SunSip lol

currently 8:26:10 in my timezone

2 minutes gone everyone

Aiden Chow

@NumberBasher bruh literally no one agreed to this

Number Basher

12:29 AM

there's also nothing prohibiting it

because technically, SunSip is on the lyal list

if anyone wants to teach any language higher or tied with SunSip, I don't have to teach SunSip

Aiden Chow

well i could teach knight if nothing else works (also on the list btw)

Number Basher

ok, go on

Aiden Chow

bro we literally have no one else talking so far ok, just chillax

wait for other ppls opinions first

we could always skip this week if theres not enough activity

BRUH

my dude

Number Basher

@AidenChow but if there is noone here, how can we have ppls opinions

Aiden Chow

@NumberBasher as i literally just said, we could skip this week if theres not enough activity

its been done before

or we can just decide later

also a good option

no need to rush things

Number Basher

12:33 AM

but i'm not willing to... i want to do SunSip... *baby cries*

Jo King

i don't think sunsip counts as being on the lyal list since it has negative votes

Aiden Chow

@NumberBasher bro it literally has -3, i think other langs will be considered first before urs

^^

caird coinheringaahing

Just wanna point out that LYAL is 24 hours long

Number Basher

true, but i think we agree nobody has 24 hours?

caird coinheringaahing

A bit of inactivity in the first half hour is fine. Unless people agree to do a different language, this week is Coconut, mainly cause I can't be bothered to pin/unpin things again

4

Aiden Chow

12:36 AM

ya im down for doing coconut (i thought we literally did it last week tho???)

Unrelated String

in name only

Aiden Chow

last time i meant

not last week

Number Basher

@AidenChow but technically, all the other langs are considered. but i get your point and I'm not argueing

Aiden Chow

@UnrelatedString what does that supposed to mean

Number Basher

@UnrelatedString last last time, there was activity

Steffan

12:37 AM

might as well just do coconut

Aiden Chow

also should we edit down our deleted lyal nominations down to a stub (i noticed deleted lotm nominations were edited in that fashion)?

caird coinheringaahing

There wasn't even an announcement last time fwiw

Steffan

yeah and no one really did it

caird coinheringaahing

I wonder if those two things are related? :P

Jo King

welcome to the two thousandth lyal, guess what, it's coconut again!!

Number Basher

12:38 AM

coconut: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/240/2022/8/17

@cairdcoinheringaahing first, its not the first hour. its already X:35. second, its not "a bit" of inactivity, there was literally only my and aiden chow at that point

Aiden Chow

@Steffan yea well i went through the tutorial and the first exercise already had me stumped. looked at the solution and it was like a bunch of lines, kinda gave up lol

Steffan

it makes sense to me

basically, haskell + python = coconut

Aiden Chow

and the piping thingy was weird as well

Number Basher

true-y

Aiden Chow

like <| and |> or whatever

Number Basher

12:41 AM

reminds me of c++

cout << "eoiho" << endl;

pipe-y

Unrelated String

...not really

Steffan

it's normal

Unrelated String

reminds me of elixir and clojure though

Aiden Chow

@Steffan never encountered them in my life lol

Steffan

most functional langs have pipe

caird coinheringaahing

12:43 AM

@NumberBasher I hate C++'s operator overloading with << ಠ_ಠ

Aiden Chow

oh, normal for functional langs

but probably weird everywhere else

Number Basher

@cairdcoinheringaahing additionally, our programming teacher uses "<<" for "asymptotically smaller"

@AidenChow consider golflangs LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

caird coinheringaahing

@NumberBasher That's not entirely awful. x << y indicates that x is much smaller than y in math

Number Basher

but thaqts a whole bunch of overloading

"<<" now has 3 important meanings

> pipe-ing

> asymp. smaller

> bitshift or something

caird coinheringaahing

@NumberBasher Wait, what does "asymptotically smaller" mean in "programming"?

Unrelated String

12:45 AM

@AidenChow it's conceptually pretty similar to "fluent apis" or whatever they're called in oo languages

Aiden Chow

um i think ur last example of x << y is just a notation, not operation overloading

caird coinheringaahing

Asymptotes aren't exactly a thing in coding

Aiden Chow

^

Unrelated String

where you have an object with methods that return the same object just so you can sequence them more easily

Aiden Chow

@UnrelatedString ya i dont do java either lol

Number Basher

12:46 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing like, 2^x<<3^x

or, 3x<<x^2

caird coinheringaahing

Oh right

Yeah, that's not overloading, that's just notation

Aiden Chow

bro thats just a math notation

^^

Unrelated String

frankly it is kind of weird that executing isn't more left-to-right in general

Number Basher

@cairdcoinheringaahing except usually our prog. teacher gives examples, so he would say

2^10 << 3^10

caird coinheringaahing

Also, 2^x isn't really asymptotically smaller than 3^x, they grow at basically the same rate

Number Basher

12:47 AM

which, doesn't quite make sense

caird coinheringaahing

@NumberBasher That's generally understood to mean that \$2^{10}\$ is substantially smaller than \$3^{10}\$, which, I guess, kinda?

Number Basher

6

Q: Which one is asymptotically larger: $n 2^n$ or $3^n$?

Which of the following functions is larger asymptotically: $n 2^n$ or $3^n$? If I take $\log$ on both functions and then compare, I am getting $n 2^n$ as larger, but the answer given is $3^n$. Where am I going wrong? $n 2^n$ vs. $3^n$ is equivalent to comparing $\log(n 2^n)$ vs. $\log 3^n$, or ...

@cairdcoinheringaahing true

although the q and a states that n*2^n < 3^n, I guess it shows my point

and it should be sensible that 2^n<<3^n

Aiden Chow

well the point still stands that its not overloading, at least for this particular use case of <<

Number Basher

but when we are learning stuff in class... well i mean its more of an understanding issue rather than a tech. issue

caird coinheringaahing

@NumberBasher No, as the limit argument fails for 2^n and 3^n, as the limit tends to infinity, not 0

Number Basher

12:50 AM

what does 1<<x mean, 2^x or 1 is very small comp. to x?

@cairdcoinheringaahing how

demonstrate

Steffan

1<<x in programming is 1 bitwise shifted left by x, which is 2^x

Number Basher

why is lim(x->inf) 2^x / 3^x equal to infinity?

@Steffan what if it was part of the class

Aiden Chow

@NumberBasher bruh, (2/3)^x as x->inf is?

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing I can't do limits ಠ_ಠ

Number Basher

@AidenChow brain fucked

typing issue

Aiden Chow

12:52 AM

lol u edited it

ya its not infinity, its 0

caird coinheringaahing

Forgot that x^n -> 0 iff 0<x<1

Number Basher

well thats what i meant to say

@cairdcoinheringaahing is n*2^n << 2^n?

i think so

caird coinheringaahing

No

Number Basher

why...?

caird coinheringaahing

n2^n > 2^n for all n > 1

Number Basher

12:54 AM

oh frick

i meant

2^ n << n*2^n

@cairdcoinheringaahing technically that isn't sufficient i guess...?

caird coinheringaahing

I generally wouldn't use << in that context, no

Number Basher

ok...

um, coconut?

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Optimally pop all the bubbles

Number Basher

hi @RadvylfPrograms

Radvylf Programs

Hi!

Number Basher

1:03 AM

Hi!

Do you want to start coconut

lyal

Steffan

we already started it

Number Basher

true, but like...

i feel like you are only here when i ask someone else to start coconut lol

Aiden Chow

@OldSandboxPosts yo could someone look this over real quick, see if its all good

caird coinheringaahing

Just post a CoMC, that's usually the best way to get engagement

Aiden Chow

@cairdcoinheringaahing lol ill just post a random one cuz why not

CoMC: print first n primes

or return

doesnt really matter lol

a bit of a tangent here but is hq9+ case sensitive or insensitive? like does it only accept H or also h?

Radvylf Programs

1:14 AM

Case sensitive

Well wait

One of the reference implementations is case sensitive

And one is not

Aiden Chow

bruh thats why i asked

i saw that too

Radvylf Programs

web.archive.org/web/20090624170100/http://www.cliff.biffle.org/…

The original implementation is case insensitive it seems

Aiden Chow

huh rly, ok

Number Basher

@cairdcoinheringaahing the problem is, where is the coconut tutorial and stuff

Aiden Chow

@RadvylfPrograms well if i was using hq9+ in one of my answers and i wanted it case-sensitive, can i specify a specific implementation where its case sensitive or is that invalid

Radvylf Programs

1:17 AM

Yeah

Aiden Chow

oh nice, ok

Radvylf Programs

There at one point (and technically) still is a rule that languages are defined by their implementations

So if there's an implementation with a certain behavior it's a valid language

Number Basher

what if I give an entirely different implementation and call it Python, can I use it for cops and robbers?

Radvylf Programs

Yes

Aiden Chow

lol

Radvylf Programs

1:19 AM

Unless there's a rule about which languages can be used

Which for CnRs involving guessing languages and stuff, there typically is

@RadvylfPrograms (Although I'm pretty sure you could get away with using a language's spec instead of an implementation)

Aiden Chow

i was asking specifically cuz i was writing up a crack for a cops post

funny u mention that lol

Number Basher

oohhh...

how do i see which question a badge was awarded to?

oh i see

Aiden Chow

@NumberBasher one way is u go to badges in ur profile and click the badge

Number Basher

1:37 AM

yah

try crack this lol

0

A: Polyglot Quiz (Cops' thread)

[A] and [B], 50 bytes, Vulnerable S is 0 Both A and B, 14 bytes print('0') out A but not B, 15 bytes print('0') out# B but not A, 21 bytes print('0',) out there Neither B nor A, 0 bytes Yeah, I'm not wasting any bytes here :-)

thejonymyster

@AidenChow what gave it away, the string itself? :-)

dammit i wanna ask a question about installing a lang or something but like. If i do it will give my next cop away LOL

Steffan

lol

~~you might have already given it away~~

thejonymyster

:fearful:

Steffan

~~get ready for my fgitw crack~~

thejonymyster

or maybe its a red herring and im going to use two online implementations of the same lang

Aiden Chow

1:52 AM

@thejonymyster well yes, and i also noticed a lack of Q, 9, and + as well so i thought, just maybe it could work

(except for the last one, there were 9's)

thejonymyster

not that the last one matters :P

Aiden Chow

lol yea

thejonymyster

i guess the last one is like

"heres your last shot to keep it from being some random lang that will accept your weird syntax"

Aiden Chow

@NumberBasher im gonna make the guess that one of them is ur lang sunsip

Number Basher

lol

a reasonable ~~and correct~~ guess

Aiden Chow

2:05 AM

is there an interpreter i can work with here other than the py file in the repo?

(so that i can link it)

Number Basher

I hve one that's very out of date but it works in this case

lemme seee

omg the link is too long

shorturl.at/amT04

[shorturl.at/amT04](shorturl.at/amT04)

wait

Aiden Chow

huh it just redirected me to shorturl.at

Number Basher

even the url shortener broke

Aiden Chow

is it a tio link?

Number Basher

yah

rb.gy/l6qkvz

https://rb.gy/l6qkvz

the header and footer is as long as hell

gotta go for now...

Aiden Chow

2:13 AM

huh could just be me but i cant load it...

thejonymyster

getting blank python tio

Steffan

@NumberBasher one of them is sunsip, I haven't yet found the other

Aiden Chow

@Steffan i think python 2 works

thejonymyster

sippin on the sun... :9

Aiden Chow

i was just trying to confirm if sunsip works

@Steffan wait which is A and which is B?

cuz it could be A = python 2, not sure if A or B is sunsip

Bubbler

2:21 AM

a small cop posted

Aiden Chow

@Bubbler oh man idk any 2d langs lolol

Steffan

i'm trying all sorts of 2d langs but none are worknig

Aiden Chow

@Steffan lol ive been trying random langs too

pyth works for #3 but not for #1 lolol

Steffan

it's probably not actually a 2d lang

Aiden Chow

hmm labyrinth works for #1, im gonna check for the rest

yep, seems like B = labyrinth

Steffan

2:34 AM

ooh

Aiden Chow

found another lang that works for #1, i mightve gotten it

Steffan

found the other

who gets to post it :P

i mean i have the pair but u got one of them

Aiden Chow

@Steffan well u already have two cracks and i only have one lol

:P

Steffan

post it

or did u find it?

Aiden Chow

@Steffan ye i found both of them

Steffan

2:41 AM

k

Aiden Chow

@Steffan posted :D codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/251451/…

i just realized that both those langs are made by the same person, nice

Bubbler

3:07 AM

that was pretty fast

Aiden Chow

@Bubbler ya, was trying all the different 2d langs

Bubbler

though that means now it's time to use non-TIO langs

Aiden Chow

@Bubbler crap thats bad lol

i want to make a cop post but like i only know a select few langs lol, itll be hella ez to crack

thejonymyster

found a lang i want to use the hard part will be programming in it

knowing of a lang isnt enough apparently

Aiden Chow

@thejonymyster yo what lang is it? maybe we can help u with it :P

thejonymyster

3:18 AM

so tempting

Aiden Chow

@thejonymyster yes, go on

thejonymyster

not to mention i need to know even a second language

Aiden Chow

yeah im having trouble finding langs that wont be immediately obvious

Bubbler

gotta write a machine code polyglot, if only I had time to write one

Aiden Chow

bro machine code, never ever gonna touch that shit lol

Steffan

3:28 AM

posted an easy cop

Aiden Chow

doesnt look easy lol, im not familiar with the 2d langs at all

Steffan

very easy

thejonymyster

4:05 AM

what if its like

a repl environment

i imagine that just wont fly, right

PyGamer0

4:23 AM

@AidenChow i have touched it once, by writing hello world in aarch64

Aiden Chow

@Steffan very easy yet im still stumped lmao

PyGamer0

4:38 AM

Apr 24 at 10:59, by PyGamer0

cmp: arm vs x86_64?

^ me trying arm assembly

New Posts

7:05 AM

0

Q: The least amount a steps a chess pice can reach a position

I have previously posted a challange: smallest number of steps for a knight in chess. Now I would like to go a step further by adding the possibility to choose you piece. If you place a pice on any square of a chessboard, what is the smallest amount of steps to reach every possible position? Rule...

code-golf grid graph-theory chess

Aiden Chow

feedback??? codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/…

Number Basher

8:33 AM

A new answer:

0

A: Polyglot Quiz (Cops' thread)

[A] and [B], ACTUALLY 3 BYTES!!!, (Very) Vulnerable S is 0 Both, 0 bytes: Only A, 1 byte: ! Only B, 1 byte: r Neither, 1 byte: " alternatively, We're no strangers to love You know the rules and so do I (do I) A full commitment's what I'm thinking of You wouldn't get this from any othe...

(https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/251483/111945)

And I can tell you it isn't SUnSIp lol

3 bytes should be technically the best you can get

mousetail

Seriously? The joke is only funny once

Number Basher

8:46 AM

Editted. And spoiler, there's a rick roll in the comments, because there has to be 15 characters, apparently

I'm pretty sure it will be cracked in max 1 day so I'm not giving any hints

mousetail

Yea it seems interesting enough

Number Basher

thanks

emanresu A

9:58 AM

@NumberBasher * one hour

and more like one minute for me

Olle Härstedt

10:11 AM

I would like to know, if there's any whitespace char that's considered a white-space by C, but variable name by PHP...

emanresu A

unlikely

Olle Härstedt

Hm hm

PHP lists \x80 to \xFF, besides a-z A-Z 0-9 _

emanresu A

Most C implementations would complain about invalid UTF-8

Olle Härstedt

Let's say gcc, to simplify it

You can use \u000 and such

There are other chars that work as "ending" of macro replacement, like -

#define MACRO "moo"
and
MACRO-asd --> "moo"-asd

Ginger

10:51 AM

hello! I am back!

Welcome back!

thanks

F O R E V E R

12:03 PM

I have a tricky challenge in PHP+C polyglot code when it comes to struct/class properties

Could I post a question here, asking for help with that?

Or must it be point based?

I'll try

After all, being denied is SO tradition

mousetail

If you do maybe it should be tips? Still not sure if it's legal

Olle Härstedt

Oh yeah

Like this one? codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/250779/…

mousetail

12:18 PM

yea

TKirishima

How do you read STDIN in Jelly?
I found 0ƈ to read a char but is there another way ?

PyGamer0

ƈ	Read a single character from STDIN.
ɠ	Read a single line from STDIN.

TKirishima

Thank you ! :D

thejonymyster

12:36 PM

CMP: the only official interpreter i could find for a language is a repl environment, and it doesnt allow pasting in, and as soon as i make a newline, evaluation occurs, so all console printing happens immediately and theres no way to make it wait until im "done" writing a "full program". What sort of "programs" are valid here?

feels like youre only allowed to write snippets which seems like an issue, since generally we dont allow snippets almost anywhere:P

or i guess thatd be a CMM

of course i could write a new, better interpreter but for CNR type challenges that wouldnt be an option

also its for a cnr so i cant just Tell you what language it is

(Lol)

Ginger

12:53 PM

|:

caird coinheringaahing

@TKirishima There's also Ɠ, which tries to evaluate the input line read from STDIN

thejonymyster

@Ginger yeah i know but also the issue is very simple to describe and its not like anyone would be installing the language just to decide their opinion on this :P

Radvylf Programs

@thejonymyster If the language has functions, those are still an option. If it doesn't, single-line programs or multi-line ones which do all the printing in the last few lines both seem fine

And depending on the situation IMO a snippet would be acceptable if there's no other way of handling I/O

user

@OlleHärstedt You could ask in chat first if you're not sure it's acceptable on the main site (I think it probably would be though, at least as long as it's a tips question)

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