The Nineteenth Byte

1:00 AM

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Storing a band matrix

1:31 AM

CMQ: If all dyads have identical precedence, should something like 1+2*3 be (1+2)*3 (so left associativity) or 1+(2*3) (so right associativity)

lyxal

left associativity

emanresu A

@RadvylfPrograms 1hr canvas rollback please?

Radvylf Programs

Ugh rollbacks are a pain, but sure

Unrelated String

whatever your evaluation order it

s

emanresu A

@RadvylfPrograms Actually

in canvas, 1 min ago, by Unrelated String

yeah i think we want to give this another hour to settle down then rollback

Radvylf Programs

1:35 AM

Okay, sounds good.

When are we thinking about ending the iteration?

emanresu A

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Radvylf Programs

Getting some admin stuff in would be nice

emanresu A

Yep, working ont hat

Radvylf Programs

I'm adding some spicy new features to the logging in the mean time

Hopefully it won't break the timelapses

But it'll make these sorts of rollbacks a lot easier

Unrelated String

hype

caird coinheringaahing

1:52 AM

@RadvylfPrograms Left preference, aka first operator, first action

or, if you hate yourself, implement a more comprehensive version of BIDMAS (or PEMDAS)

Radvylf Programs

No, this language allows custom operators at runtime so that would get really painful

caird coinheringaahing

Hey @hyper-neutrino I appear to have been booted from a specific private room?

hyper-neutrino

uh what

... how

you were a room owner of it and there's no message saying you were removed. anyway, put you back :P

caird coinheringaahing

Was I removed as an RO perhaps?

Radvylf Programs

We had that same issue with the bakery when we briefly made it private

hyper-neutrino

1:59 AM

ah, I guess making a room private kicks existing ROs????? who tf knows how SE chat works lmao

caird coinheringaahing

private rooms are weird

I don't appear to be an RO anymore tho. Not that I especially need to be, but huh

hyper-neutrino

i just set you to write access lol - i just didn't remove you as RO when you were RO initially but i guess the system did?

caird coinheringaahing

Fair enough :P

So, for some reason, at least 5 hours after it was made private, it decided to remove me as RO and completely remove my access to the room :P

Also, the room doesn't appear to have a room owner ????

hyper-neutrino

it doesn't have to

caird coinheringaahing

I thought all rooms needed an RO?

Pretty sure if you remove all ROs from a room, the system auto-appoints someone as RO

Radvylf Programs

2:03 AM

Only if it's active enough, right?

forest

Whoever is most active gets auto-RO. That happened to me once.

But only if there are no other ROs and the room is not active except for you for some time.

hyper-neutrino

then i guess i will appoint myself

Radvylf Programs

Or should we hold an election? :p

We might need a room to discuss whether not to add an RO to the room about adding ROs to rooms

caird coinheringaahing

I nominate Dennis, I trust him with any and all moderation powers, but the chance he'll use them is slim enough for it to not matter

Also, while the trend of users leaving suggests otherwise, I do still hold out hope that Dennis returns. Not only would I like to see probably the most influential user in our history come back, but his return would almost definitely indicate an improvement in his health, which I'd love to see

Unrelated String

^^^

caird coinheringaahing

2:11 AM

And, to completely pivot from that, never thought I'd reject an edit with the comment "Spock is from Star Trek" :P

Radvylf Programs

Oh wow I'm 8 suggested edit reviews away from a silver badge

caird coinheringaahing

@RadvylfPrograms Nice, only the 7th person on the site to get that one :D

Radvylf Programs

GRT for the win :p

caird coinheringaahing

GRT for the win indeed :P

I find it crazy that WW has a Steward badge (1000 reviews) in Close Votes, while I'm 4th of all time, and I only have 370

lyxal

Speaking of silver moderation badges - I find it funny how I have deputy on SO and MSE yet not here

caird coinheringaahing

2:15 AM

@lyxal Bro, I have Marshall on MSE and not here - flagging is easy on SO/MSE :P

lyxal

esp when the flagging is done for you automatically ;p

lyxal

2:32 AM

@RadvylfPrograms I never knew you had an inbox interrupt userscript

the amount of times I've needed one is uncanny

although I just realised the userscript won't help me out on mobile because DDG don't userscripts

oh well

also @RadvylfPrograms does GRT make a noise on review items?

Radvylf Programs

Yes

lyxal

is it customisable?

Radvylf Programs

It can be toggled though

@lyxal Yes, you can change the URL in the source code :p

lyxal

can't wait to confuse myself by using the same noise Smokey uses lol

adhenderson.co.uk/sounds/piano.mp3

the sweet sound of spam and now review items

Radvylf Programs

Well, gonna go to sleep now o/

lyxal

2:42 AM

o/

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal Yes, it makes the minecraft death noise for me :P

Unrelated String

nice

caird coinheringaahing

or, I think, it's the "I just hurt myself" noise, can never tell the difference :P

@UnrelatedString @hyper-neutrino Out of interest, have either of you taken a look at Legacy's Allure (like, gameplay, cards,etc.)?

Unrelated String

i've lurked more in the discord but been too busy to really look at any of the resources

i say while spending like 20 minutes at a time on canvas lmao

hyper-neutrino

i forgot about the game and that i joined the discord

i am not busy i just have the memory of a goldfish

caird coinheringaahing

2:53 AM

@UnrelatedString Fair enough :P Can be difficult to get involved if you haven't actually played a game, it's fairly complex to begin with

@hyper-neutrino Goddammit :P

On the one hand: I hate doing surveys
On the other hand: if this is implemented properly, and rolled out network wide, we could benefit from this

lyxal

dear gosh they've made a gaming version of The Key

As you can see, SO staff are gamers now apparently

hyper-neutrino

damn

the key could actually be pretty decent for osu ngl

caird coinheringaahing

Why is this the shit they're putting dev effort into?

lyxal

because gaming

caird coinheringaahing

"Hey, see these new user question guidance beta tests we could be doing? Nah, ignore those, look, copy-past buttons!"

lyxal

3:06 AM

*copy-paste RGB gamer buttons

ftfy

caird coinheringaahing

imagine using an RBG keyboard - made by (⌐■_■) my laptop is fine as is gang

lyxal

yes

ikr

I like how it forgot to include the https://

Jo King

@cairdcoinheringaahing my rgb keyboard arrived a few days ago, can i borrow your sunglasses, it's so bright

lyxal

(._.) ⌐■■

caird coinheringaahing

@JoKing Sure, here you go: ⌐■_■

lyxal

3:18 AM

take mine

@cairdcoinheringaahing you've also given your mouth away dumbnut. how you gonna speak?

Jo King

thanks (⌐■_■). my laptop actually couldn't handle the max brightness, i needed to plug it into a usb-c or usb3 port

caird coinheringaahing

⠀

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing sounds (or rather, doesn't) like a you problem

maybe you should have considered that before you gave your mouth away

caird coinheringaahing

@JoKing Can I have my mouth back pls? :P

Jo King

oh right, here's your's back ⌐■_■ , i'll just use lyxal's

lyxal

3:22 AM

(you're welcome caird)

caird coinheringaahing

You can keep the ⌐■-■

emanresu A

3:53 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing How did you :P without a mouth?

caird coinheringaahing

My powers are beyond your mortal comprehension

hyper-neutrino

you don't need a mouth for that, just a tongue

caird coinheringaahing

I sacrificed 1 mouth for unlimited tongues :P

PyGamer0

5:34 AM

do yall know this YouTuber named "Ben Eater"?

No

No

No

I do not watch people who eat my cousin

Aiden Chow

ap calc bc in less than a week :\, been practicing yet still feel totally unprepared

emanresu A

5:39 AM

It's...

Got a factorial learning curve.

Aiden Chow

factorial learning curve 0_0

i feel like i do fine on just the equation stuff, but once i encounter a word problem, its all over

lyxal

6:00 AM

I feel you there

Unrelated String

it's been like two years since i've actually done any calculus so i have lost no intuition on how to apply it but probably couldn't integrate anything more complicated than a polynomial or a single trig function

att

integration is just addition

lyxal

It's been ~6 months for me, but I just use Vyxal (or at least I did prior to 2.10.3)

wow thank you windows

there's no way I could have known that

I definitely couldn't just look outside

that'd be preposterous.

Unrelated String

whoa

lyxal

and now instead of sunset, it's raining

even better job windows

my real window does a better job of telling me the weather than you

3

pxeger

6:34 AM

@lyxal or even look at the clock

lucky there's no clock in the windows taskbar

especially not one right next to the weather thing

lyxal

nor the notification count

Wheat Wizard

@pxeger A clock doesn't tell you what time the sun sets.

pxeger

If you know where you are, or have ever looked outside, and know what time of year it is, you can make a decent guess

PyGamer0

6:53 AM

i am trying to speedrun nandgame

Aiden Chow

whats that

PyGamer0

nandgame.com

and i am stuck

wow it covers floating point arithmetic

> Doing nothing forever.

Aiden Chow

7:51 AM

@PyGamer0 hows it going lel

emanresu A

8:23 AM

nandgame is hard

Aiden Chow

8:45 AM

took ap chem a couple days back, i think i failed it pretty badly :(

literally skipped an entire frq essentially

not exactly optimal to get a 5 :|

Unrelated String

9:12 AM

f

emanresu A

No u, correct horse battery staple

juust use an entropy counter

New Posts

10:07 AM

0

Q: Is Wally there?

Inpired by recent Stand-up Maths' video. Task Wrapping a list x can be seen as inserting "line-breaks" into x every n-th element, or forming a matrix from x with n columns (feeding rows first). To be perfectly rigorous in the definition of x wrapped into a matrix, we can pad the last row with 0s....

ophact

10:32 AM

Worst fail ever:

print(f([1,2,3], [[1,2,3]])) // true

pxeger

10:45 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing 0?

PyGamer0

11:14 AM

CMC: Given a number x, output the corresponding unicode character.

uhhh i got 0 bytes

flax C?

1858039787

@emanresuA yep

@PyGamer0 this is... really clever

PyGamer0

was watching ben eater's 6502 series which reminded me of nand game...

eater.net/6502

i really want that kit... and the 8bit breadboard computer one also

weather as of now: thunder storm

with very loud thunder

ow my ears

Ginger

12:30 PM

exciting news!

GingerBot can now move messages!

Radvylf Programs

12:48 PM

@AidenChow Well, most people I've talked to have said the same thing, so maybe the average has been dragged down enough that like a 70 would be a 4 or 5

I'm dreading going to school today. Not because of AP Seminar, but because I know I'm walking into a building with unusable WiFi.

Well, gotta go anyway, so see y'all there (but won't be able to alert you of that fact unless I click "retry" a half dozen times) o/

Ginger

gl

Romanp

1:11 PM

Does anyone know why so many new contributors have submitted their first posts to King of the Holster? Did it pop up on HNQ? Was it the bounty?

Ginger

Okay, so

I think that sechat is pretty much done

are there any extra features y'all'd want in it?

Radvylf Programs

1:26 PM

@Romanp Almost every moderately good question here becomes an HNQ, so yours definitely did. And it has a somewhat catchy title, and KotHs are (IMO) the most fun challenge type here, so it's the perfect challenge for new users.

Romanp

Makes sense

Ginger

@RadvylfPrograms You run a bot, what features would you want in a next-gen bot library?

Radvylf Programs

Reliability

Ginger

ooh, good one

Radvylf Programs

NP/SP started out its life by going down every couple of days whenever anything moderately unexpected occured

Ginger

1:29 PM

well, currently if sechat detects an error in a handler it just logs it without crashing

the old bot library also had issues with correctly halting all threads when the program shut down, sechat fixes that

Radvylf Programs

Any library intended for bots needs to be tested with fire. Pipe /dev/random into whatever internet library it uses. Disconnect the WiFi halfway through. MitM the connection with a self-signed (and invalid) certificate. etc.

Ginger

jesus

well, I haven't done any of that yet

Radvylf Programs

I've had all sorts of "oh that'd never happen to me" stuff happen with NP/SP, and you should expect it

Ginger

lemme go do that

Radvylf Programs

And be mindful of when you should crash instead of logging an error. If something's in an unexpected state, it might be spamming RO-only operations or pushing its anti-spam-cooldown into the double digits.

Ginger

1:31 PM

hmmmmm

well, I can make it so that errors in any request methods can be logged instead of crashing

Radvylf Programs

Things like systemd will handle auto-restarting, so whenever the library's not sure if what's going on it correct, going down for a second might not be the worst idea

Ginger

right

Radvylf Programs

Whereas for routine network errors like the internet going down or random garbage being piped in or an MitM should be handled (probably without any logging at all) without any crashing

Ginger

Well, I've added a try block to the request function

I guess I can just make it log that as a warning?

Radvylf Programs

Make sure it doesn't log stuff every time it receives some sort of invalid thing, or you'll fill up stuff with a gigabyte of logs.

Maybe a debug option in the constructor (if you're going OOP)

Ginger

1:35 PM

Exceptions generated by the request function get logged

I'll add an option to shut that off

Radvylf Programs

Maybe make it log any unique errors once, for debugging, but then never again.

Ginger

hmm

Radvylf Programs

Or perhaps every time it's a power-of-ten number of times that error's occured, print that, so you can tell the scale of an issue

Ginger

Currently, if an error occurs during websocket connection it just raises an error

I think that's a reasonable "oh shit restart" scenario

Radvylf Programs

Well, keep in mind the websockets decay away after some time, so restarting them should be a normal part of the library's functionality

Ginger

1:37 PM

they do?

I... did not know that

Radvylf Programs

Yep. All sorts of stuff can cause them to close.

Ginger

okay, good to know

Radvylf Programs

I'd retry about ten times with delays increasing from ~100ms to ~10s before panicking

And if you fail to receive a "ping message" on a chat websocket for more than a minute, restart it whether it's open or not

Ginger

okay

more handlers added

Radvylf Programs

I'd leave it running for a week or two before publishing too, to catch any other issues

Ginger

1:45 PM

It's not bulletproof, not by a long shot, but I'm going to run GingerBot as a test for like a week to iron out the bugs

ninja'd

Resiliency aside, any other features?

Radvylf Programs

Can it read the transcript?

Ginger

no

I can add that tho

Radvylf Programs

I'd add that. How does it handle getting cooldown'd?

lyxal

are we talking about the KoTH runner or the chat client?

Ginger

Chat client

@RadvylfPrograms Wait 3 seconds and try again

Radvylf Programs

1:48 PM

I'd make the amount of time it waits increase

Ginger

hmmmmmm

Radvylf Programs

If you always wait 3s, it'll stack and you'll be in the double digits soon

Ginger

okay

done

lyxal

wait is this a SE chatbot framework or a chat relay of some sort?

Ginger

framework

lyxal

1:52 PM

can I star or pin stuff with your client?

Ginger

Yup

and move messages

and clear stars

Radvylf Programs

@lyxal Not in TNB you can't :p

If that's what you're thinking of

Ginger

kickmute and related coming soon

lyxal

@RadvylfPrograms I more meant for other rooms

Radvylf Programs

lyxal is bot loooking to upgrade their firmware confirmed

lyxal

1:53 PM

e.g. vyxal bot pins vyxal releases

believe it or not I was being /srs

Neither was I :q

@Ginger bookmarks

uh

@RadvylfPrograms neither?

Ginger

I'll look into it

Radvylf Programs

1:55 PM

@lyxal Yeah I misread your comment and so I inverted my tongue and licked my eyes when I realized that, which is the universal sign of "I'm wrong" starting today

...y'know I shouldn't be misreading stuff this early, I've got an AP test later

Ginger

what

lyxal

@RadvylfPrograms hehe suodns lkie a you porbelm

Radvylf Programs

:q

(licks eyes in fear)

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