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12:37 AM
Idea for a challenge, worth posting? This is a list of classes of natural numbers. Take a natural number n as input. Output one or more of m distinct consistent values that indicates which of those classes n is part of. You may choose m (i.e. how many classes you handle) but highest m wins
With a restriction on code size, I'm guessing?
I guess I can support infinitely many classes that fall under "figurate numbers"
which obviously breaks the challenge
@RedwolfPrograms If I post to sandbox, scoring is some relation between bytes and m
@Bubbler Assuming that you can only support those listed, you can't
There is a finite number of classes listed, therefore your score is finite
Well then it's not a game-breaker, but still I think they're the largest group of closely related classes on that page
Let me change it slightly: that's a list of classes. That challenge, but where I removed classes that overlap/are too similar to trivialise. Worth posting?
12:45 AM
Also, I think I saw a similar challenge before, where you're supposed to implement multiple number classes with very little similarity. IIRC the reaction was not very great
I'd rather focus on more closely related ones
Hmm. I posted this question back in 2017, but that required checking for each, rather than allowing answers to choose which categories to support
That's a super-duplicate :P
Yep :P
First time I saw a question as a multiple dupe target :P
1 hour later…
1:55 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing never seen this many links on a dupe
2:08 AM
Peter Taylor really do be using multiple links tho
oh hey red's here
Hi redwolf!
I've lost 40 rep from users being removed in the last two days :/
Oh hi Lyxal
you should try answering in a particular esolang
you might get 50 rep
no promises
I just printed on cardstock, with a printer that says it doesn't work with cardstock, and it worked. I'm such a madlad 😎
Which esolang would you be referring to?
I wonder which one
I wonder which esolang I want people using.
MAWP abviously
2:18 AM
@RedwolfPrograms I lost 80 :/
@RedwolfPrograms and we have a winner
@Razetime clearly ;p
@Lyxal Jelly?
@cairdcoinheringaahing yesn't
Clearly they're referring to the original golfing language, Java
2:19 AM
The issue I have with Vyxal, 05AB1E, Stax etc is that they’re boring
In what way?
Stack based?
Stack based languages are easy to golf in, compared to tacit style
Ash is going to be prefix, which is basically tacit
I'm not a fan of stack based, but I like cheating more lol
Plus Ash will have some awful unreadable interesting function operators
2:21 AM
Don’t get me wrong, there’s some answers that have solid insight that win a challenge, but I’ve never seen a stack based language win because it’s stack based, but I have seen tacit languages win because their tacit structure allows them to win
stack based languages do win because they have stack based structure tho
@Razetime But not really. Stacks allow you to store a bunch of information, which tacit languages don’t. Beyond that, they aren’t that interesting
If the operators are implemented properly, stack based is more capable than (non pre-/post- fix) tacit IMO
Most submissions in a stack based language have the form “Do X. Do Y. Do Z. Do A. Do B”, which leaves basically no room for creative golfing
@cairdcoinheringaahing not interesting? I agree.
golfy? very much so.
2:24 AM
Yeah. Boring, but sometimes effective.
Interesting memory models > short code
Example: Whispers
Hey, I don't like stack based that much either. I switched Ash from stack based to prefix, which wasn't easy :p
too bad there's only like, one tacit language that anybody uses
@cairdcoinheringaahing most stack based languages don't have functions. Are functions interesting?
@Lyxal Most stack based languages have functions
2:25 AM
but do they have functions as objects?
Are we talking about practical ones or golfing ones?
@RedwolfPrograms golfing
{} in Golfscript/CJam, X} in 05AB1E, [] in Factor etc.
Functions as objects are way easier with stack based than tacit
In terms of number of code points required, at least
@Lyxal Typically, stack based languages treat functions the same way they treat anything else. Tacit languages fully change their parsing depending on “quicks”
2:27 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing i dont know which info.txt you're reading because functions aren't objects in 05ab1e
@Lyxal But they basically are. Short of actually being pushed to the stack, they can act 100% independently
I'm talking about actually having the function stored on the stack
They aren’t quite CJam levels of functions but they’re like 90% of the way there
@Lyxal Any sensible golfing stack based language should implement it that way. 05AB1E as hacked together over 5 years, so it didnt
hmm stax has stored functions
@RedwolfPrograms my offer still stands
2:29 AM
@Razetime Boo. Everyone boo the compressed cheater :P
most follow the golfscript model of storing functions as "blocks" on the stack
Compression and flags. 2 biggest cheats IMO
@Lyxal I'll do it later, but I'm eating right now :p
@cairdcoinheringaahing Agreed
@cairdcoinheringaahing still loses to 05AB1E :P
@Razetime and by extension Vyxal
2:30 AM
Vyxal doesn't feel like a direct port
I may have accidentally made too many commands similar to 05ab1e...
@Lyxal Aside from being a mod, there is nothing that can give me more power on the site, so I no longer care about rep (aside from the rep count badges) :P
@cairdcoinheringaahing that's why i ain't giving you the offer
Every 100k should give you the ability to delete one user of your choice to keep it interesting :p
Can I delete A’_’ or whatever they’ve called themselves this time, on the conditions that they stop deleting their account?
2:33 AM
Why do they keep doing that?
@RedwolfPrograms Jon Skeet would’ve deleted 12 users on Stack Overflow by now :P
Golfer's Theorem: All golfing languages' built-ins eventually converge
@RedwolfPrograms Something about being cursed whenever they get to 8k
@Bubbler 05AB1E and Husk having single byte builtins for power set and permutations, while Jelly has a whole byte dedicated to “Print the Jelly representation of the argument” never fails to annoy me :/
@Bubbler I don't know...at some point they'll probably find some way to be different from each other.
Specialization, maybe, or a whole new way of writing the programs
Or the goddamn radians builtin. Never used that once, but I’ve written Œ! and ŒP more times than I can count
2:37 AM
just fork it and change right
Done that, but it isn’t on TIO so it’s a hassle to answer with
pythonanywhere then?
just make a barebones site to answer with
I do believe I’ve used all of Jelly’s single byte atoms at least once on this site tho
@Razetime That’s effort tho. I’m fine losing to Stax, Husk 05AB1E and Jonathan Allan for the moment
Jonathan Allan HAH
although the "moment" doesn't sound that short
Idk how he does it, but if I have a Jelly answer, he can write one shorter
@Razetime Jelly’s got the highest ELO rating this month, so who knows?
2:43 AM
idk if i trust that query
it doesn't even show vyxal
Yeah, it is kinda sus. But until someone fixes it, I guess we’re stuck with it
it also doesn't have rating decay
> But until someone fixes it, I guess we’re stuck with it
- Us, whenever something that requires SE intervention to fix happens
speaking of which, the h flag doesn't work on the online Vyxal interpreter
@cairdcoinheringaahing when the SEDE query is sus 😳
2:45 AM
@JoKing Speaking of, it’s been 7 months since new users can post in the Sandbox
Is it possible to re-escalate in the Teacher’s Lounge, or wherever relevant?
Have we asked about it on Mother Meta?
@cairdcoinheringaahing yesnt.
@RedwolfPrograms you do not question the deletions
@RedwolfPrograms Kind of
@cairdcoinheringaahing that rationality is now long gone
i'll poke around, but no guarantee
2:47 AM
It turns out it also applies to multiple other sites, so someone opened a Mother Meta question about it. However, it’s gone all but unanswered
@JoKing I'll work on fixing that
@JoKing Just one thing: it got marked in the recent events to deal with outstanding bug reports. I tried to talk to a CM about how important it is here, but didn’t get a response. I’d recommend suggesting/emphasising just how important it is here
It’s more than just a bug; it’s actively making the site quality worse
A: Lowered reputation threshold for meta participation on some sites is not working

Jon ChanI've been able to reproduce this with a sock puppet account. I agree this shouldn't be happening and we should see what checks are in place and causing the inconsistent behavior. This issue has been added to our backlog and once we address it, will have the team update here. Adding status-deferre...

Go annoy that CM, see if we can get an important bug fixed
I can't imagine it taking too much effort to fix, although I'm sure they'd gladly kill of a few small sites if it means they can use dev time for the profitable sites
I can understand not doing much if it only affects one site; however, when it affects 2 of the most active sites (judging by HNQ posts) on the network, and it’s about new users, which SE has made priority #1, I don’t get how this is still a bug
3:13 AM
@NewMainPosts CMC: This (print 1 to 100), but without the
I’d be surprised if many languages are substantially different to the main post
@cairdcoinheringaahing The main is to print 0 to 100, not 1 to 100
@cairdcoinheringaahing Vyxal, still 1 byte
Anyway, APL: ⍳100 (⍳101 if 0 to 100), too lazy to find if there's any answer there
I guess 1 being allowed or not will make some differences
Factor: 100 [0,b] [ . ] map
With restriction, 100 should be CHAR: d or 0xa sq instead
@cairdcoinheringaahing Ash, 3 bytes: ∴i⁽ (two bytes if 1 to 100)
@cairdcoinheringaahing 05ab1e, 2 bytes
3:25 AM
With restriction: change 101 to b'e'
Okay, I guess it doesn't make big difference
Flagless, vyxal is two bytes regardless of the needed range.
Do you have separate operators for 0 to n and 0 to n - 1?
I have [0, n], [0, n), [1, n] and [1, n)
No [n, N) or [n, N]?
I've got those too
If you need a range between numbers I've got you covered.
3:31 AM
Hmm, maybe I should add some more range related operators given that I've got so many available number code points
(Unrelated: Factor has [0,b], [0,b), [1,b], [1,b), [a,b], [a,b), (a,b], (a,b), which are all the actual names of the respective functions)
@Bubbler lmao
Idea: Whispers-based golflang
I'm disappointed there are no [b,0], (b,0], [b,1], (b,1], or [0,1] functions :p
3:46 AM
7 hours ago, by Redwolf Programs
Since a rep requirement to ask would require major changes from SE anyway, I'd suggest making the sandbox special in some way so that upvotes in the sandbox count for something like +2 or +5 rep, then add the rep minimum and replace the "ask question" button with "visit sandbox"
I was just imagining how funny it would be if the "ask question" button is replaced with "visit sandbox" but new users are not allowed to write a sandbox post until they get 5 rep
That would improve the site quality a lot
4:04 AM
@JoKing the h flag now works online
yes, h
guys how to reduce list by function in java?
internet says use streams, but I'm looking for the code golf way
4:24 AM
It is wrong to golf in java
I'm not using java for golf im using java for education
but i like short code
and education does not teach short code
If you don't want streams, you might have to do the usual for loop
What are streams?
actually no i'll google it
it's basically iterator for java
5:50 AM
Q: Fastest Multidimensional Array Sort (Deadline: March 31)

Jacob HornbeckI don't know if deadlines are a thing with these coding challenges, but... Deadline: March 31, 2021 In this coding challenge you need to make the fastest multi-dimensional array sorting algorithm. I will choose the fastest one on March 31, so get yours in before then! Here are the rules: You...

6:15 AM
@NewMainPosts Can we close this?
As what? Needs clarity?
Or should we just close it as a dupe of a more general sorting one
6:30 AM
@Bubbler worked well, got the job done nicely
4 hours later…
10:31 AM
Now we're having weird close voters. That post just have the word homeomorphism and it's unclear (I guess) already?
Q: Topologically distinct ways of dissecting a square into rectangles

Peter KageyI was asked by OEIS contributor Andrew Howroyd to post a Code Golf Challenge to extend OEIS sequence A049021. Would be super great to get a couple more terms for [...] A049021. Kind of thing [...] team golf would excel at. Besides wanting more terms in the sequence, I think it's a positively lo...

this one's fine, they're interpreting unclear as "something for which I am too dumb to click on links, read and understand" rather than "something that's poorly specified and unexplained"
While SO doesn't like it, we can start mandating leaving comment on unclear vote.
No comment on down vote is okay. (although in such cases there are usually comments anyway)
10:50 AM
Last time I did put it in the sandbox for a very long time, however.
Weird idea: post a main post to ask people to review the sandbox post.
That fold-and-cut challenge is actually pretty nice, except that it's terribly hard to implement. Especially for code golf...
It can be defined in terms of non-stretched continuous deformation...
I really want to prove that any homeomorphism is a sequence of "obvious" transformations + rotation and reflection, but the homeomorphism is so abstract.
All non-square corners are adjacent to at least 3 and at most 4 edges. And the number doesn't change after the transformation.
11:06 AM
Regarding the sandbox for 1-rep user thing, perhaps someone can maintain an external service to collect those and post...
Might be easier to just switch to other site entirely.
Obviously connected components stay connected.
And different sides of an edge stays different.
Therefore the planar map stays the same.
11:24 AM
Perhaps Euler's formula will be useful here...
I think I found a nontrivial homeomorphism.
2 hours later…
1:24 PM
codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/220053/… <-- goto the comment to see the nontrivial homeomorphism. MathJax doesn't work here.
But seriously, MathJax can create some weird pictures. Someone even used that to cover the down vote button on the answer.
2:21 PM
Q: Autogrammatic pairs

AndrewFor today's task, we have two programs, P and Q, both in the same language. Each of them receives a single-character input. If P receives character K, P says how many times K appeared in Q. (You can use any output format for P or Q; they need not be the same, the only requirement is that your for...

2:46 PM
There's an overload that folds from the left, and another that can do it in parallel. The Stream API's still pretty primitive, but it's very useful
1 hour later…
3:58 PM
Q: shuffle an array using only a compare function for quicksort

Villfuk 02Given this pseudocode quicksort (taken from here, modified): algorithm quicksort(A, lo, hi) is if compare(lo, hi) then p := partition(A, lo, hi) quicksort(A, lo, p) quicksort(A, p + 1, hi) algorithm partition(A, lo, hi) is pivot := A[ floor((hi + lo) / 2) ] i ...

4:11 PM
Q: Draw the arc of a ball

xnorDraw the parabolic trajectory of a thrown ball. The input is the ball's initial upward velocity, a positive integer v. Every second, the ball moves 1 space right and v spaces vertically, and then v decreases by 1 to due to gravity. So, the upward velocity eventually steps down from v to 0 and d...

1 hour later…
5:16 PM
Announcement: Dyalog APL Seeds ― A free online event aimed at new and prospective users of APL
5:32 PM
tmw people can get rep just by spamming answers, quantity over quality :(
Jul 25 '17 at 15:16, by Mr. Xcoder
New verb: to Leaky – FGITW a challenge and answer it in 10 different languages.
Leaky Nun was known for that back in the day :P
at least his answers were decent
6:19 PM
Downvoting costs rep? :( what
6:38 PM
how can I get a link to someone's profile in a SEDE query
You can just get their ID and paste it into https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/[id], right?
how come the 'OwnerDisplayName' column only works sometimes?
Deleted users, maybe?
What's the query?
Are you filtering the PostTypeId?
1 hour later…
8:02 PM
@rak1507 <-- Proud spammer of over 3,800 answers
oh, that doesn't work how I meant, sorry
8:46 PM
did this windows insider update just completely break my inverted scrolling
Q: “Simple” Programming Homework

user101295Your friend has been caught sleeping in class again! As punishment, his computer science teacher has assigned him homework, knowing that he will not be able to solve it due to not having paid any attention. The assignment seems deceiving simple at first; all that is required is to output the stri...

Doesn't seem particularly interesting to me
Q: “Simple” Programming Homework

user101295Your friend has been caught sleeping in class again! As punishment, his computer science teacher has assigned him homework, knowing that he will not be able to solve it due to not having paid any attention. The assignment seems deceiving simple at first; all that is required is to output the stri...

@NewMainPosts Ha! Beat you to it
@Neil I'd hardly call your answers spam
non inverted scrolling is actually driving me insane
how do people live with this
and why isn't this just in settings
9:01 PM
inverted scrolling is when you scroll up to go up right
it's when moving the wheel up scrolls down
like if you're using touchpad gestures, or a scroll bar
I think that's what I use on my laptop at the moment
i think it's default on macs
and as a former mac user i am completely reliant on it lmao
in a sane world inverted scrolling would be what we call the windows default
it's probably default on windows as well I don't think I've ever changed it
i have to use the registry editor to enable it on windows
and it doesn't seem like that works anymore either
this is specifically for a mouse scroll wheel because ofc all touch pads work that way
9:10 PM
@NewMainPosts you know it's a bad challenge when Keg can just submit a cheating quine.
and you know it's a bad answer when Keg just submits a cheating quine
@UnrelatedString what
lol, windows is ... weird
@RedwolfPrograms hey I barely find an opportunity for my poor language to win.
I take opportunities when I can.
yeah lmao
the best part is it's not even an overall system setting, you have to do it for the individual device based on multiple id numbers you have to dredge out from driver update logs
@UnrelatedString wait you invert scrolling too?
9:15 PM
@Lyxal had a mac for 6 years so yeah
@UnrelatedString what the unholy hell
@UnrelatedString And here's me thinking I was the only one
why don't they just make it as easy as they make it to change touchpad scrolling
I like my trackpad scrolling the same way a mouse does
9:30 PM
@NewMainPosts someone keeps downvoting trivial answers, so I posted a few more trivial answers.
9:46 PM
I just halved the length of my submission
/John Doe/.toString().slice(-~[],~[])
Oh wait there's /John Doe/.source

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