The Nineteenth Byte

user

00:01

Good luck lol

Fmbalbuena

some langs is impossible

user

@DLosc Add one in Pip!

Fmbalbuena

like tio.emptynest

Bubbler

No one in the outside world seems to know esolangs other than BF, intercal and lolcode

user

I like how Emojicode isn't in the esoteric languages list (in the uwu repo)

Bubbler

00:02

...and maybe vyxal in 2021

lyxal

@Fmbalbuena Dennis made Keg interpreter in TIO for keg

user

@Bubbler Those are the classics

Fmbalbuena

@lyxal ok i try

user

It's time for us to petition SE to write a blog post about one of our languages!

lyxal

@Fmbalbuena No that's the program

That's quite literally the program

user

00:03

Wow.

lyxal

Try it online!

Any non-command character just pushes itself to the stack

user

What does Keg do, just implicitly output all ascii characters?

Ah

Fmbalbuena

@lyxal but

user

That sounds like a waste of characters lol

lyxal

@user it is lol

It was my first golflang and I was still following the design ideology that commands should only be symbols

user

00:05

Ah, and APL is grouped under esoteric languages. No one tell the APL Orchard! :P

lyxal

@Fmbalbuena you don't need to escape spaces

They push themselves too

Fmbalbuena

@lyxal sorry i do ungolfed

not golfed

hyper-neutrino

there's a difference between ungolfed

lyxal

I'm just saying that unescaped spaces is more idiomatic

hyper-neutrino

and unnecessarily bloated

sure, you could write for i in a: print(i) as i = 0; while i < len(a): print(a[i]); i += 1 but that doesn't make it more correct or pythonic just because it's not as golfy

lyxal

00:08

^

hyper-neutrino

conciseness is a goal of practical programming too :P they just won't sacrifice readability for it

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino It's a matter of relative conciseness

user

def recursively_print_all_items_in_list_because_i_like_recursion(a):
    if isinstance(a, list) and (a != a[0:0]):
        recursively_print_all_items_in_list_because_i_like_recursion(a[0:len(a)-1]
        print(a[len(a)-1])

@hyper-neutrino Conciseness isn't the primary thing, it's readability. It's just that readability can often be correlated to conciseness (although at some point too much conciseness is bad, which is bad because I would've loved for golfed code to be elegant :( )

hyper-neutrino

true

there's a bell curve meme to be made here

user

His head is indeed curved

No stars? smh that must've been too big-brained a joke for y'all :P

lyxal

00:19

@user wait does that flat print or retain nested order?

user

wdym?

idk if it even works lol

lyxal

Vyxal equivalent as a lambda: λ:0p≠nLċ∧[n₌tṪx$,|nt,];

And as a named function:

@recursively_print_all_items_in_list_because_i_like_recursion:1|:0p≠nLċ∧[n₌tṪ@recursively_print_all_items_in_list_because_i_like_recursion;$,|nt,];

user

Oh I see what you mean. Try it online! prints each on a separate line (the original had a missing ))

I love how the function name is longer than the body

lyxal

:0p≠ is how you can tell number from list

Note that it doesn't work with strings and lists

@user that do be how golfing languages work

user

@lyxal Wait, why do you need to tell a number from a list?

Exalted Toast

00:29

Is there a vanilla sum-of-digits challenge? I can only find variations.

user

Are you printing nested lists?

lyxal

@user because you check for isinstance(a, list) in yours

I was just porting yours pretty much exactly

user

Ah

@ExaltedToast Odd, there don't seem to be any. Is this close enough, though?

Exalted Toast

Definitely feels like something that'd exist. In any case, that's close enough, thanks

lyxal

00:45

@user kekw I just swooped in for the win

OldSandboxPosts

01:00

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Leave ABACABA on the tape, Fill the (possibly leaky) bowl

lyxal

@OldSandboxPosts Remove ABACABA from the stack, empty the certainly sealed mound

Nov 9 at 1:01, by lyxal

New hobby idea: coming up with the opposite of old sandboxed challenges

Hello, World!

01:40

0

A: "Hello, World!"

Sysfk (darwin64 syscalls), 1192 bytes >>>>>>>>,[-<<<<<<<<|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+^>>>>>>>>]>[-<<<<<<<<<|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+^>>>>>>>>>]>[-<<<<<<<<<<|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+^>>>>>>>>>>]>[-<<<<<<<<<<<|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+^>>>>>>>>>>>]>[-<<<<<<<<<<<<|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+^>>

Fmbalbuena

02:22

I think i'm done to upload.

New Posts

0

Q: Write a Stack Exchange compliant brainfuck explainer

You are to take a string representing a piece of brainfuck code, containing only printable ASCII characters ( to ~, ASCII 32 to 126) as input and output an explanation of that code, formatted to be compliant with Stack Exchange markdown. That is, the explanation must satisfy: Each line has an a...

emanresu A

02:48

@AaroneousMiller E = eval as Python (offline) - ts's a port of your vim answer (Reverse, join by +, eval)

@lyxal smol, I think

emanresu A

03:21

@JoKing Do you think it's possible to do this in Backhand?

Bubbler

03:32

@emanresuA I think this (both halves being this) is a valid answer to both challenges?

emanresu A

Oh very nice. Go post it I guess :P

Bubbler

Feels like part 1 has a better solution though

Posted part 2

emanresu A

The way you skip the ^ iis very clever :p

lyxal

03:51

0

A: Write a Stack Exchange compliant brainfuck explainer

Vyxal, 69 bytes `([%^])`\\`><+-,.[]`f:→+∑%ṡ';:vL¦0pṪZƛ÷ð*pnh←=Tuw∨□ḣ∇‟İ„L›„↲$+4ð*p∑;⁋ Try it Online! 67 with the -j flag, but that isn't as funny.

that's the ugliest Vyxal I've ever written

but it's 69 bytes

so it's funny.

emanresu A

Permission to outgolf this by a lot?

lyxal

sure

@emanresuA Should I bother writing up an explanation then?

emanresu A

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's chonky :P

Also use kT

(prerelease only :p)

lyxal

@emanresuA *looks at version the site uses* :thonk:

Redwolf Programs

04:06

It's just occured to me after like 16 years that words like "writing" aren't really verbs in a sense

You always say "I am writing", "I was writing", "You will be writing"

So it's basically an adjective

emanresu A

@RedwolfPrograms "writing" can also be a noun - "my writing"

Redwolf Programs

Yeah, bad example

"crying" might be a better one

"That crying man" and "That man was crying" could both be using it as an adjective

I'd always considered the second to be a verb, but...it sorta isn't I guess

"You cry" makes sense, so "cry" is definitely a verb, but "You crying" does not

emanresu A

Ugh, pip is installing stuff to the 3.9 modules directory when I have 3.10

Redwolf Programs

School district vs. SOCK²...wonder who's going to win :D

(SOCK² is my custom anti-filtering system I'd made)

emanresu A

Time to reinvent networking protocols, I guess :P

Redwolf Programs

04:22

Considering renting some servers from Azure or Google Cloud and setting up SOCK² as a paid subscription model. I could make quite a bit of money off that :p

emanresu A

Although... They specify applications - don't you connect through a websocket socks5://...

Or something?

Redwolf Programs

Yeah, it's through a websocket

Indistinguishable from lots of other stuff, but their program might be smart enough to think it's sus if 100% of the traffic is through one IP

emanresu A

Seems unlikely though

Redwolf Programs

Yeah

emanresu A

Redwolf: 1. An entire school district IT team: 0.

Redwolf Programs

04:24

I haven't used SOCK² in a little while since it takes some hassle to get running, but I suppose I'll do some testing.

If it easily bypasses their new VPN detection stuff, you can bet I'm gonna take advantage of that for profit :p

emanresu A

(I don't know much about networking but) is there any way for them to access the request data sent to your server?

Redwolf Programs

No, it's all HTTPS

emanresu A

Then it should be fine.

@RedwolfPrograms Pro tip: Market it as a "highly advanced VPN" to confuse the IT people even more.

Bubbler

@Bubbler This was indeed true; I could find 33 and 34 bytes solutions, both of which are totally obfuscated :P

Redwolf Programs

I need a cool sounding name for it

Square sock is a really nerdy pun that doesn't make it sound particularly cool

Bubbler

04:28

VVPN

emanresu A

^

@RedwolfPrograms Bad idea - do you want the IT people to realise it's a websocket?

Redwolf Programs

I am now connected over SOCK², confirmed it's working

(At home)

I'm considering running two copies, one for normal usage and one for SSH only. Since sometimes my normal one breaks for some reason, which means I also lose contact with my server for maintainence purposes.

Bubbler

The every other character thingy in Labyrinth would be really something

Or even worse, Hexagony (is it actually worse?)

PyGamer0

@emanresuA "VPN that uses the latest carbon fiber and lithium technology " would be better

lyxal

04:45

@RedwolfPrograms just two questions: 1) is your Chromebook considered BYOT? and 2) does the computer you use connected to any school wifi?

Redwolf Programs

Yes, and yes

lyxal

because I'm thinking that you could just get a second computer and share the hotspot

lifewire.com/share-wifi-between-chromebook-and-android-5190435

sure that article is only between chromebook and android, but I'm sure there'd be some sort of workabout

because surely you'd be allowed to get away with having a VPN on a non-BYOT device

emanresu A

> NOTE: If your Chromebook is administered by your work or school, you might not have the option to connect your phone.

lyxal

> might

I got the idea from the one time I used my uni's wifi on my phone from my laptop because for some reason, my phone was being stupid and not connecting directly

emanresu A

@RedwolfPrograms Question: Is the school internet whitelisted or blacklisted?

Redwolf Programs

04:49

Some sort of weird hybrid from what I can tell

Unrelated String

i just cracked the textbook for one of my classes open because i realized we haven't actually used it all semester and... it seems to consider mathematica a successor to apl

emanresu A

Hm... So, for example, if you registered redwolfiscool.com, would you be able to access it?

Unrelated String

@RedwolfPrograms broad blacklist, whitelisted exceptions, exceptions to the exceptions, and so on? (or the other way around)

lyxal

@UnrelatedString hmm yes

Redwolf Programs

@emanresuA Yes and no. Yes because it's most a blacklist sort of thing, but no because I'm IP blacklisted lol

lyxal

04:51

@UnrelatedString a language released in 1988 is a successor to a language released in 1966

because that's how time works

no wait successor means after right?

Redwolf Programs

Yes

lyxal

then maybe the textbook is right

Redwolf Programs

APL and Mathematica don't seem all that similar lol

lyxal

they both do math

emanresu A

lyxal

04:53

that's similar

emanresu A

Context missing

lyxal

@emanresuA just pass the ctx parameter /s

PyGamer0

05:04

nobody noticed my about :|

Redwolf Programs

lol

(lol at your about not nobody noticing it)

Unrelated String

oh yeah this was also written in 2009 and in its discussion of web scripting languages gives about 5 times more space to java applets than javascript before the next section is devoted to good old xslt

lyxal

@UnrelatedString oh heck yeah xslt

Man that language really sucks

It's annoying af

PyGamer0

05:25

cursed program

Unrelated String

not especially

Jo King

i'm getting rickrolled by the radio right now and i can't help but feel like @lyxal is at fault somehow

7

lyxal

05:47

@JoKing what can I say except you're welcome

PyGamer0

guys is this a tacit lang

argh i have continuous classes

and in a couple of days i will have offfline classes

Anush

06:42

CMC Count up to a billion in English

PyGamer0

@Anush one

two

three

four

five

5 days later

a billion

lyxal

@PyGamer0 it might take a little longer than 5 days :p

Unless your counting faster than 1 number a millisecond, it'll take anywhere between 11 days and around 31-32 years

Anush

07:17

@PyGamer0 in golfed code :)

Actually I would really like a python function number() that takes an integer from one to one hundred and returns the number In English

Golfed of course :)

Has there already been a challenge on this?

Sandbox Posts

07:42

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Convert infix to prefix Infix notation is a method of printing mathematical expressions where each operator sits between its two arguments, such as \$ \left(5 \cdot 4\right) + 3 \$. Prefix notation is a method of printing expressions where operators sit before their arguments. The equivalent of t...

PyGamer0

@Anush Try it online!

shhh dont notice the onty

Bubbler

@Anush Dupe of Hackerrank PE 17

/hj

pxeger

What's the rep requirement to see chat flags?

Bubbler

but really, reading numbers involves writing down lots of words with very little room for golfing

emanresu A

Or import l18n

@pxeger 10k networkwide

Bubbler

07:48

Protip: Not every idea that is not already a code golf challenge is actually a good idea

emanresu A

For example "decrement a number"

@pxeger *on sites where you have 200+ rep

lyxal

Oh so that's why I never see math chat flags

emanresu A

No, I mean the 10k is only counted out of sites where you have 200+ rep

lyxal

Oh

Then mobile chat is just bad I guess

Bubbler

You simply don't see flags on mobile i think

Sandbox Posts

08:03

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Fully matched numbers sequence For the context of this challenge, a matched group is a digit \$n\$, followed by \$n\$ more matched groups. In the case of \$n = 0\$, that's the whole matched group. For example, 3010200 is a valid matched group, as: 3 # 3, capturing three elements... 0 ...

Newly Featured Posts

16

Q: Digit small numbers

A digit small number is a positive integer \$n\$ such for any two numbers that multiply to \$n\$, their total number of digits is more than the digits in \$n\$. In otherwords: there are no two positive integers \$a\$ and \$b\$ such that: \$ ab = n \$ and \$ \left\lfloor\log_{10}(a)\right\rfloor+\...

code-golf math decision-problem

New Posts

08:20

0

Q: Open or Close the Parentheses

Every phone needs a calculator app. Because of the limited screen real estate, the developer of mine has decided to save some buttons. Instead of having two dedicated bracket buttons - one for open ( and one for close ) - there is just a single bracket button (). It looks something like this: Wh...

code-golf string decision-problem parsing balanced-string

emanresu A

08:46

Does Jelly have a way to remove one string from another?

pxeger

Jelly? Strings? Nope

emanresu A

jht.hyper-neutrino.xyz/search?i=dyads&tags=string

Kinda depreasiong :P

Anush

@Bubbler yes except that's not on ccgc :)

@PyGamer0 Very nice! And I didn't notice the onty :)

if we really haven't had this on ccgc I will pose it as a challenge

but surely we have??

Bubbler

09:03

@Anush 90% dupe, 99% dupe, related, related, related

And adding millions and billions to the 99% dupe doesn't add anything interesting

"if we really haven't had this on ccgc I will pose it as a challenge" Please don't

Anush

09:26

@Bubbler no please needed! I just didn't find the dupes

although the answers to codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/12766/78410 are missing the ands !

emanresu A

> The word and in for example one hundred and forty five is optional too.

Anush

@emanresuA according to whom!

pxeger

@emanresuA that's one hard-to-parse sentence!

emanresu A

@Anush The question you linked

@pxeger Formattiing missing

Anush

@emanresuA shame!

pxeger

09:31

huh, if you flag a comment as "no longer needed" and the comment contains something like "thanks", it seems to get deleted automatically

emanresu A

@pxeger System stuff :p

There's a meta post that I can't be bothered to find

Anush

09:50

@Bubbler Don't forget the "if" :)

Bubbler

Well yeah but 99% dupe is not a perfect dupe, so I take the if clause to be true

Anush

@Bubbler ah.. I am more error resilient than that

and also more scared of downvotes!

emanresu A

10:33

o/, need slep

lyxal

o/

pxeger

How terrible an idea is it to have a code page with no whitespace in it?

lyxal

Depends on the design goals really

Are you okay with not being able to 100% line up with ascii?

And is this for golfing or for just pure esotericness?

Either way, I'd keep at least just normal space unless you have a really good statement separator/NOP

Bubbler

If the code is meant to be human-writable then not having spaces or newlines would be pretty unusual

Otherwise anything goes (e.g. Sledgehammer uses 256 braille chars)

pxeger

@lyxal Jelly isn't ASCII-compatible (it has newline at 0x7F), and afaict that's never been a problem

Adám

10:51

@pxeger \Will you have an encoded way to include literal strings?

pxeger

11:01

@Adám in terms of having spaces in string literals? That's a good point, but I guess I'll just have some other character that can replace them

@Bubbler the idea is to have a Unicode mode in which whitespace (and all other characters not in the code page, in fact) are ignored, so I was hoping that would be fine

pxeger

11:24

@lyxal I want golfiness. NOPs are not golfy

lyxal

of course, but I'd have 1 NOP for edge cases where you need to separate stuff

caird coinheringaahing

12:55

@emanresuA Example? Like Hello, World!, lo, W goes to Helorld!?

Mayube

14:06

mornin' all

Mayube

14:21

sometimes (read: all the time) rust is just really bad at golfing

Redwolf Programs

Morning!

Running TNB over SOCK² right now, from school

VPN restriction isn't supposed to start until Dec 1, so I have some time to fix any bugs with it

Which uh...one just came up lol

ETIMEDOUT on the websocket, not sure what's up with that

Happened again, I think I've seen this happen before but I don't remember what the reason was

thejonymyster

hi all i do not have an asnwer for you but

i do have. a question :-)

i wanted to put a bounty on a question but the bounty isnt open yet cause it just got asked today,

but when i said i was going to, someone asked if i could add it to the bounties without deadlines list

Redwolf Programs

Yeah, you'll have to wait the two days

thejonymyster

however i am a noob and i have no idea how that works

right but like

Redwolf Programs

If it's a bounty wth no deadline you want, just add an answer to the meta question

Fmbalbuena

14:36

@RedwolfPrograms one day

thejonymyster

do i put it on the bounty list now? or do i wait the two days first, make the bounty, then add it to the list

Fmbalbuena

@thejonymyster this

pxeger

@thejonymyster that would only be if you're offering it repeatedly and forever

Redwolf Programs

^

Or at least, if it's for something that hasn't happened yet

You could have a deadlineless bounty for first answer to a certain question

thejonymyster

ok wait ill explain what i want the bounty to be, and someone pls explain to me the best way to go about it haha

Mayube

14:37

as the name implies, the "bounties with no deadline" list in meta is for bounties with no deadline :P

thejonymyster

that question abt making a brainfuck explainer, i think itd be funny if someone made an answer in brainfuck

so i want to put a bounty on that to ensure someone does fdsgsdfg

Mayube

I think that'd be best done as a bounty with no deadline, similar to Bubbler's recent bounty for a factorial program in ///

thejonymyster

makes sense

Fmbalbuena

@lyxal all of your testcases are failed

thejonymyster

does the page on no-deadline bounties explain how to actually like, give the bounty once it happens?

dont need to pre-game reading

ill just look rq

Mayube

14:39

Once an answer has earned the bounty, you put the bounty on the question as you would normally, and award it to that answer

thejonymyster

ahh yea, makes sense

thank u all

bounty listed

it just seemed like the right thing to do :]

Fmbalbuena

@thejonymyster Brainfuck: Invalid syntax.

@thejonymyster I'm trying to make this

thejonymyster

YAY

Fmbalbuena

@thejonymyster but thats too complicated.

thejonymyster

huh?

no im saying yay cause im excited it doesnt stand for anything

is the bounty i put on it enough btw?

i dont have any feel for good amounts

Fmbalbuena

14:54

@thejonymyster i'm making python code what generates brainfuck code

thejonymyster

that should do it :)

Mayube

@thejonymyster I think 200 is good yeah

thejonymyster

yaay im perfect

Fmbalbuena

@thejonymyster Try it online! i'm making right now without python

thejonymyster

[nice!:]

Fmbalbuena

15:00

@thejonymyster None

thejonymyster

what if they found the declaration of independents and it was valid brainfuck code...

and it was the davinci code

Mayube

I wasn't aware the declaration of independence was missing...

New Bounties With No Deadlines

1

A: List of bounties with no deadline

200 rep for a brainfuck explainer... in brainfuck basically, first person to write a correct answer to this question in brainfuck

Fmbalbuena

AICMQ: What is the difference between CMQ and MQ

Mayube

@Fmbalbuena C

thejonymyster

15:03

@NewBountiesWithNoDeadlines lol theres me

@Fmbalbuena whats the AI stand for? did an AI generated it

Fmbalbuena

@thejonymyster Yes

Its generated by AI

thejonymyster

very coherent nice job

Fmbalbuena

AICMQ: Why Code Golf is better than Codidact Code Golf, not Codidact Code Golf

@Mayube The AI (Github copilot) wants to learn

thejonymyster

is that "why x is better than y but not better than y" or "why x is better than y rather than x being y"

Fmbalbuena

AICMQ: What is the difference between TIO and TIO2

thejonymyster

15:14

assuming this is in base 30+,
TIO2-TIO = 9TIQ

wait thats not right

Fmbalbuena

Final AICMQ: What is the difference between code golf and brainfuck

@thejonymyster i say. @NewBountiesWithNoDeadlines is robot.

thejonymyster

forsooth! and what a foul contraption it is! Confound'd thing had me played for the fool!

nah i just like pointing at stuff that has me in it

Fmbalbuena

@Adám @cairdcoinheringaahing i posted question

@thejonymyster this question taked me 4 days to post

@lyxal but it's not correct. all testcases are failed. see the differences carefully.

DLosc

15:35

@DLosc Update: UQ has been fixed, and it does work.

Fmbalbuena

@DLosc Can you create program in Pip?

@Razetime do you forgot Add++ syntax?

Razetime

@Fmbalbuena this looks Pippable and the strict input format helps a bir

@Fmbalbuena I still remember a decent bit

much of my add++ knowledge has been put in the tutorial pages

along with some of lyxal's stuff i think

Fmbalbuena

ok

Do you like this

DLosc

@Fmbalbuena I might, yeah. Not right at the moment, though. @Razetime, you want to have a go at it?

Razetime

we can have some golf wars, sure

DLosc

15:41

>:D

Fmbalbuena

The answer will be accepted in 2 hours.

better answer was 05AB1E

>:D

Razetime

this looks very tempting to do in stax

I'll make a stax thing first

PyGamer0

16:32

in Vyxal, 22 secs ago, by PyGamer0

@emanresuA ,/ (reduce laminate :P)

Razetime

@Fmbalbuena I have beaten 05AB1E

50 bytes

caird coinheringaahing

16:51

@Fmbalbuena I'd suggest you clarify that there will only be 9 "explanation" strings given, and that answers may choose how to associate each command with each inputted explanation string

Like I suggested yesterday

Fmbalbuena

17:05

@Razetime I have to wait a hour to accept

if @DLosc beats then i accept @DLosc Answer

@cairdcoinheringaahing my question became Hot question.

@cairdcoinheringaahing But answers can choose how to associate each command with each inputted explanation string.

Mayube

Personally I recommend against accepting answers at all, but I don't think we have any hard and fast rules on the matter

caird coinheringaahing

We don't have any rules, just recommendations

@Fmbalbuena But you don't specify that in the question

@Fmbalbuena If you do accept an answer (which we highly recommend you don't, as it suggests the challenge is over and contradicts our policy that code golf is a competition within not between languages), I suggest you wait a minimum of a week

PyGamer0

17:44

whytf is my train delayed by 4 hours

Mayube

@PyGamer0 depends on the country. If it's the UK that's actually on-time. If it's Germany I guess the world's ending :P

Redwolf Programs

TIL some implementations of JS used to have Python-like array comprehensions

Mayube

aw man that'd be sweet

Redwolf Programs

Why? It's just map with Python syntax :p

Mayube

it's not just map. Python array comprehension can also do filter and zip

Redwolf Programs

17:52

It's slightly more capable I guess, but it does not feel JS-y lol

pxeger

@Mayube zip? how?

Mayube

@pxeger [(i,a[i]) for i in range(0,len(a))]

pxeger

@Mayube I mean, you can do that with map too

Redwolf Programs

^

pxeger

and actually that's enumerate, not map

Redwolf Programs

17:55

a.map((x, i) => [i, x]) or a.map((x, i) => [x, b[i]]) (for zip)

pxeger

I'm guessing you meant (a[i], b[i])

Mayube

enumerate is just zip with a range :P

python can also do whatever this is

Redwolf Programs

What...TIO's unblocked again

Still can't run code on it though

Mayube

rip

pxeger

@Mayube just a nested map

a.map(x=>a.map(y=>[x,y]))

Mayube

17:58

besides, if the argument is "we don't need list comprehension because it's just map", then we don't need map because it's just a for loop :P

pxeger

but map is shorter!

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